Note to Forum Mods - Conjuror is spelled wrong, it is not Conjurer

[EQ2Playa432]

Note to Forum Mods - Conjuror is spelled wrong, it is not Conjurer Boards

[Xalmat]

Actually, it is not.http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conjuror

con·jur·er also con·jur·orn. 1. One that performs magic tricks; a magician. 2. A sorcerer or sorceress.

Would be nice if SOE kept the same spelling convention, however.

[Calman]

Hehe this happens

 Troubador ?  try Troubadour.

 

 

[Phaedrella]

Actually, that the dictionary lists "conjurer" as a valid spelling doesn't provide much in the way of credibility in that spelling's favor. The word conjuror comes to English directly from Latin, just as does the word juror, which when accompanied by the prefix con- takes on a rather different meaning. "Doer" nouns ending in -er come from the Germanic side of the English language (worker, thinker, reader); "doer" nouns ending in -or (advisor, facilitator, arbitrator) come from Latin. The conflation between these two wellsprings of English (60% of the English language comes from Latin, either via French or directly) accounts for a lot of the awful spelling within the written language. That and standards of education, obviously.Anyway, don't rely on the dictionary in this case. The listing of "conjurer" as acceptable is a concession. "Conjuror" is the correct spelling.

[Kamimura]

---

Phaedrella wrote:Anyway, don't rely on the dictionary in this case. The listing of "conjurer" as acceptable is a concession. "Conjuror" is the correct spelling.

---

It's also how it's spelled in game.

[XtremSummo]

It's also overly simplistic to quote a root for the word and then claim that this gives the only real spelling. If you think about where the latin came from originally, it's unlikely that it even used the same alphabet if you go far enough back. Does that mean that we should all actually be spelling in cuneiform or some such? No... because languages develop their own rule sets that may be applied for acknowledged correct spelling.

Conjurer can be correct as it applies a rule that is commonly used in the English language: that a verb root can be extended with -er in order to denote somebody who does the action. Nothing wrong with that at all. The -er ending gained a great deal of currency in English after the Norman conquests when the French -eur (e.g. dompteur) and -ier (often used for latinate words e.g. Taillier) were imported as common endings for this purpose.

It's also worth noting that several sources such as Merriam-Webster and the Encylopedia Britannica quote conjurEr as the primary spelling with conjurOr being the associated synonym. Languages transform and to try to pin correct spelling directly to etymology is questionable. Things in correct spelling are rarely as straight-forward as they may seem.

X

Message Edited by XtremSummons on 03-27-200601:21 AM

[Phaedrella]

Am I asking that we write in Phoenician script? No, of course not. That sort of reductionism doesn't really lead anywhere revealing. But you do have a point about spelling standardization, although after the eighteenth century most English standardization tended to favor the Latin cognate, at least when the link was blatantly obvious. I think, either way, though, that EQ2 could pick one or the other. A sort of "Find all . . ." and "Replace" function within the game's text couldn't be that difficult. Then again, "its" and "it's" are misspelled half the time, so dare to dream, I guess.

[Sol-the-Wi]

There are also a lot of possessive grammatical errors. I often see:Solnus' House/inn roomSolnus' [spellname]

etc.

[Daeloq]

Is this thread still going?  Conjuror or Conjurer - who cares?  We all know what it means.  Either spelling is acceptable in today's world.  Language is ever-evolving, and the dictionary is updated annually to account for words which have become commonplace in society. 

[XtremSummo]

Hehe... no I wasn't suggesting that we should write in ancient alphabets. I was just highlighting the point that etymology often isn't a reliable route for discerning correct spelling - especially in English. I'd personally spell it 'conjuror' but both should be viewed as equally correct. I definitely agree that there should be consistency though.

Nothing wrong with Solnus' as the possesive of the name Solnus by the way. Singular nouns ending in 's' can take either a simple apostrophe or 's. Often the choice is made for the one that sounds better. A good example of this is "For goodness' sake", which we rarely say as "For goodness's sake" as it sounds clumsy.

X

[Phaedrella]

---

Daeloq wrote:

Is this thread still going?  Conjuror or Conjurer - who cares?  We all know what it means.  Either spelling is acceptable in today's world.  Language is ever-evolving, and the dictionary is updated annually to account for words which have become commonplace in society. 

---

Meh, that's what we'll be saying when we're on the verge of communicating with farts and winks. "It's what we're doing now, so it's progress!"

[Daeloq]

---

Phaedrella wrote:

---

Daeloq wrote:

Is this thread still going?  Conjuror or Conjurer - who cares?  We all know what it means.  Either spelling is acceptable in today's world.  Language is ever-evolving, and the dictionary is updated annually to account for words which have become commonplace in society. 

---

Meh, that's what we'll be saying when we're on the verge of communicating with farts and winks. "It's what we're doing now, so it's progress!"

---

Well, that's certainly one extreme example.  I don't think the difference between "Conjuror" and "Conjurer" is quite the same as "Hello" and "Phhhbbbbbt".  I could go to the other extreme and ask you if we should spell "theater" as "theatre".  That may be proper Old English, but it's long gone and isn't coming back.  Let's face it, things change in life - including language.  I'm not personally a fan of kewl, or 2nite, or ain't, but they're becoming more and more commonplace in our society every day.

To remain relevant, we have to roll with the punches and adapt, or get left behind. 

There was a time when "Meh" and abbreviations would have been considered affronts...  progress in all forms...

[Phaedrella]

Oh, "meh" is obviously a slight debasement of language, but I'm not going to excuse my laziness by glorifying it as progress or even as a sign of the times, which sounds altogether too neutral. All the modern languages are marked not so much by evolution as by a loosening-up of their inflection and potential for diction, which, mind you, are hallmarks of the Indo-European languages (experts in other languages probably have some barometer of their own, word placement in classical Chinese, for example). Now, if this were truly a result of "evolution"—language as changing within isolated city-states, disconnected areas of a frontier or sparsely populated continent (pre-modern Europe, even early modern Europe), villages high in mountains, etc.—then yes, that would be a different matter altogether. But that sort of "natural" evolution ended with the formation of national, and eventually mass, culture in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries in the West. In an age in which everything is de facto standardized and made (allegedly) aware of itself by mass media, there's no such thing as a natural evolution of language. In our context, the "evolution" of language is basically a change comprising various mistakes that would once have seemed elementary. That's not natural evolution. There's no possibility for that anymore. Evolution due to laziness and a lack of aptitude for language because of lowered educational norms? Sure, I'll accept that.But, yeah, I was only responding to an earlier comment. I wouldn't have gone into such detail in regards to the question of how "conjuror" ought to be spelled.

[Jeradim]

I would prefer it if they fixed the spelling on my "Luxery" apartment first since that isn't even a word, synonym or otherwise.

[Methriln]

LOL people fighting over how a word is spelled.Got 1 thing to say.....Get a life!:smileywink:

[Phaedrella]

LAL U TEH MAN WUT WE NED 2 SPEL FUR N-E-WAI ~ * ~ * ~ * ~I don't think anybody who plays an MMORPG has the right to tell another MMORPG player to get a life, especially for something that's actually a little bit educational, and for you to come in here as an interloper to remind us that people who care about language and history just get laughed at by the hoi polloi anymore isn't really necessary, but thanks for the effort!

Message Edited by Phaedrella on 03-29-200607:40 AM

[tpleag]

---

Phaedrella wrote:Am I asking that we write in Phoenician script? No, of course not. That sort of reductionism doesn't really lead anywhere revealing. But you do have a point about spelling standardization, although after the eighteenth century most English standardization tended to favor the Latin cognate, at least when the link was blatantly obvious. I think, either way, though, that EQ2 could pick one or the other. A sort of "Find all . . ." and "Replace" function within the game's text couldn't be that difficult. Then again, "its" and "it's" are misspelled half the time, so dare to dream, I guess.

---

Dev's are great at computer languages, but I doubt many have a B.A. in English.  I believe there is a command to give feedback about typos in game.

[Koehianna]

---

Kamimura wrote:

---

Phaedrella wrote:Anyway, don't rely on the dictionary in this case. The listing of "conjurer" as acceptable is a concession. "Conjuror" is the correct spelling.

---

It's also how it's spelled in game.

---

Not true.  Some of the spells in our Conjuror's Insignia line are spelled Conjurer and some are spelled Conjuror.  It was really frustrating when I got the new spell in that line and I tried typing in one way and I could never find the spell on the broker.  :smileymad:

They should just choose one way of spelling it and stay consistent.

[Scarrlette]

O_o

Okay then.  Thanks for the tip.  I don't have any clue how it was intended to be, but either way, it's how it is. 

[EQ2Playa432]

Perhaps we can have a sticky made showing the known "problem" of the spelling. So we don't create tons of posts on this.

Message Edited by EQ2Playa432 on 05-09-2006 08:44 PM

[Forsaken Falc]

Since Were on the topic of spelling, I'd like to see to word "Griffon" changed to "Gryphon" Griffon just seem's so.......Cheaterish?

[Sokolov]

---

Daeloq wrote:

I don't think the difference between "Conjuror" and "Conjurer" is quite the same as "Hello" and "Phhhbbbbbt".  I could go to the other extreme and ask you if we should spell "theater" as "theatre".  That may be proper Old English, but it's long gone and isn't coming back.

---

While I certainly am not opposed to general evolution of language, blatant phonetic mispellings just because "it doesn't matter" is not evolution but degeneration.Also, the spelling is theatre and it's in standard use all over the world - so that was an awful example.

[Daeloq]

---

Sokolov wrote:

---

Daeloq wrote:
I don't think the difference between "Conjuror" and "Conjurer" is quite the same as "Hello" and "Phhhbbbbbt".  I could go to the other extreme and ask you if we
should spell "theater" as "theatre".  That may be proper Old English, but it's long gone and isn't coming back.

---

While I certainly am not opposed to general evolution of language, blatant phonetic mispellings just because "it doesn't matter" is not evolution but degeneration.

Also, the spelling is theatre and it's in standard use all over the world - so that was an awful example.

---

Holy necro-post, Batman!

I think it's safe to assume that the vast majority of participants in this thread are from the United States, where theater is the more common spelling, so I believe it to be a perfectly fine example. 

My point, which I don't believe you completely grasped, is that "theatre", while perhaps the most proper and originally established spelling of the word, is not commonly used, and I doubted whether the poster I directed my comment to used that form of the word.

That is my same question to you - do you spell it "theatre" when you write the word, or do you participate in the degeneration of the English language by spelling it "theater"? 

 

edited - because I dropped out of typing class in summer school after 6th grade and never recovered.

 

Message Edited by Daeloq on 05-11-2006 03:41 PM

[Sokolov]

---

Daeloq wrote:

---

Sokolov wrote:

---

Daeloq wrote:

I don't think the difference between "Conjuror" and "Conjurer" is quite the same as "Hello" and "Phhhbbbbbt".  I could go to the other extreme and ask you if we should spell "theater" as "theatre".  That may be proper Old English, but it's long gone and isn't coming back.

---

While I certainly am not opposed to general evolution of language, blatant phonetic mispellings just because "it doesn't matter" is not evolution but degeneration.Also, the spelling is theatre and it's in standard use all over the world - so that was an awful example.

---

Holy necro-post, Batman!

I think it's safe to assume that the vast majority of participants in this thread are from the United States, where theater is the more common spelling, so I believe it to be a perfectly fine example. 

My point, which I don't believe you completely grasped, is that "theatre", while perhaps the most proper and originally established spelling of the word, is not commonly used, and I doubted whether the poster I directed my comment to used that form of the word.

That is my same question to you - do you spell it "theatre" when you write the word, or do you participate in the degeneration of the English language by spelling it "theater"? 

edited - because I dropped out of typing class in summer school after 6th grade and never recovered.

 

Message Edited by Daeloq on 05-11-2006 03:41 PM

---

Well, I wasn't the necro  =D Anyway, I use theatre, always have and probably always will, besides, I am Canadian =) While it may be true that it is an example of a word that uses two spellings which are generally accepted in at least one part of the world, the usage of "theatre" is not "long gone" as you implied but rather still standard AND commonly used  in many parts of the world, including the US. See: http://www.tcg.org/ Theatre Communications Group - a group that promotes non-profit American Theatre. http://www.broadway.com/ Broadway Theatre - no explanation necessary. If you look for a Theatre, you will probably find most of them are spelled Theatre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Theatres_in_New_York_City In any case, I certainly understand your point, but I don't think the word theatre fits the shoe you are attempting to stuff it in, that's all I was contending.

[XtremSummo]

All British English speaking people spell it 'theatre'. 'Theater' isn't used at all in British English and the vast majority of people around the world who learn English as a foreign language learn British English not American English. The major English language teaching organisation in the world is The British Council and generally schools will also teach British English in preference to American English. It really wasn't a great example.

Still Sokolov should still have seen the point you were making. [edit] which it seems he did... but posted while I was writing this hehe [edit]

X

Message Edited by XtremSummons on 05-11-2006 04:07 PM

[Sokolov]

---

XtremSummons wrote:

All British English speaking people spell it 'theatre'. 'Theater' isn't used at all in British English and the vast majority of people around the world who learn English as a foreign language learn British English not American English. The major English language teaching organisation in the world is The British Council and generally schools will also teach British English in preference to American English. It really wasn't a great example.

Still Sokolov should still have seen the point you were making. It's nitpicking to suggest that the example used negates the point.

X

---

Who said I missed his point?  Heck, I even begin by supporting that language evolution exists. I simply disagree that theatre is long gone and isn't coming back =D  It never left!

[XtremSummo]

Lord but you're fast... I just edited cos you posted while I was writing... and you beat me to the edit even.

X

[Sokolov]

LOL =D

[Daeloq]

Of course you would be from Canada... so theatre may a very bad example for you.  Here (maybe it's just a Califonia thing), I admittedly still see theatre, but usually as part of a proper name, such as "Theatre Communications Group" or "Curran Theatre".  Theater is much more common when discussing it in general terms.

 

I'm glad you see my main point though, which is simply that the difference between "Conjuror" and "Conjurer" is minor and probably not worth getting riled up about, and certainly not as egregious as "phat" vs. "fat" or "the suxxors!!!111!" vs "sucks".

 

 

edited - because the intended keys are located in spots other than where my fingers are clicking...

Message Edited by Daeloq on 05-11-2006 04:20 PM

[Sokolov]

Oh, a funny story.  I was travelling in the US one summer and ended up at a college campus in Boise, Idaho.  There I inquired of a young man there about the location of a "washroom."  He looked confused and tentatively said, "You mean a washing machine and dryer?"