This is odd , vey vey

Zeld · 03-03-2006, 01:21 AM

t5 velocity does 65% dps increase M1 ----t7 YES t7 Impetus at ad3 does you guessed it 65 % dps increase HOW can this be ???? HOw can t5=t7 ? PLEASEPLEASE fix this !!!!!

Pins · 03-03-2006, 01:30 AM

Zeldyn wrote:
t5 velocity does 65% dps increase M1 ----t7 YES t7 Impetus at ad3 does you guessed it 65 % dps increase HOW can this be ???? HOw can t5=t7 ? PLEASEPLEASE fix this !!!!!

Because DPS has a cap of 100%, so you won't get as much of an icnrease from newer spells, in fact that line is probably going to end now, and won't get updated next expansion.

Madulaoblongatta · 03-03-2006, 03:04 AM

Yeah its redundant.

Its almost redundant as you making the same post on different boards. The add3 and/or master versions are the upgrade your looking for, ad 1 is nothing special.

Mandelbro · 03-03-2006, 03:06 AM

Madulaoblongatta wrote:
Its almost redundant as you making the same post on different boards.

:smileyvery-happy: I like it when Newbies flame Apprentices. Good times.

Message Edited by Mandelbrodt on 03-02-200602:07 PM

Dr_Cyr · 03-03-2006, 04:17 AM

It makes no difference. Most anyone you would use that spell on is going to be capped anyways, between thier own abilities and their gear.Its like throwing haste on a high level monk who is already self hasted above 90%.There are more imprtant things to worry about. They really ought to drop that spell line wiht the T5, and do something else, like maybe give us a line to heal our charmed pets.

Mandelbro · 03-03-2006, 05:55 AM

Dr_Cyrus wrote:There are more imprtant things to worry about. They really ought to drop that spell line wiht the T5, and do something else, like maybe give us a line to heal our charmed pets.

Heal a pet so it can turn on us? Remember that your pet is your enemy.

guysery20 · 03-03-2006, 06:53 AM

We are not healers. Stuns are our way to mitigate the damage on our pets.

Dr_Cyr · 03-03-2006, 08:46 AM

Heal your pet? Sure.We are also a pet class at least part time. And it needs only be a small heal relatibvely speaking, since your pets get nerfed to no-arrow.Like at the end of a close fight, where you wer stunning like mad becuase its a race between your damage on a ^^^ and your pets health bar - and both are in the red.Or you finished a combat and the pet is way down, and you want to keep him (no other shammy types around perhaps) instead of killing him and getting a new one. Heal would cut the wait time.Or you get aggro and your pet is takngin 2 mobs, and you need a little extra to get him to survive the fight.So yes, I think its a valid line to have.And as far as your pet being your enemy: He's my enemy whether his bar is full or not. If I want to get rid of him, I dont use the heal. Its the same as having them break after a rest between combat. No difference in the risk.So I think the objections are off base. And we sure dont need any more of the buff line that is well over whats useful in actual application, so why nto a situational spell? Ours is the ultimate situaltional class, right?

Norrsken · 03-03-2006, 12:22 PM

Heal my pets?Im an evil coercer that gets whatever is near me to do my bidding. Heal them? I'd rather send them to their deaths. SMILEY

Well, not really, but I dont think that pet heals would work well with the makeout of the class, if there is one...Other things, like being allowed to zone with a pet, stances for the pet and stuff like that would work though.Coercers has to be the only class that gets gimped when going back to gray zones to do some old quests. SMILEY

Raidi Sovin'faile · 03-03-2006, 12:46 PM

Well for one thing, I seriously doubt your pet will be maxing out his DPS %... so there's one application.. HA!

Seriously though, I'm not a big fan of seeing green over my pet as a coercer. What... I'm "coercing" my pet into mending his cuts and scrapes? Mentally convincing his muscles and skin to repair themselves? Heh.

Nah.. I'd much prefer an ability that drastically REDUCED an enemy's DPS. Right now, I'm not so worried about magical damage (for the most part) since when the guy isn't stunned, he's probably silenced.

The problem is those ^^^'s are laying down the 2k MELEE hits. Sometimes I pray the NPC start casting a spell instead of meleeing, since I know my pet can withstand a couple nukes or dots, but he'll be toast in a few melee hits.

So a -DPS% line replacing our +DPS% line would not only help our pets survive, it would be a nice alternative at the levels where folks are capping, and would even fit the theme of the line... we just turned our learning away from what makes a person do more damage, to what makes a person do less damage. "Coercing" an NPC into holding back hits, etc.

I'm guessing a debuff would be capped at 50% though, since while 100% increase DPS would double, the reverse for reduction would have to be 50% to make it half (100% would mean 0 damage per hit).

So if we do get something like this, expect the numbers to be half as big, to have the same reverse effect (25% debuff would be about equivalent to 50% bonus).

Manyak · 03-03-2006, 07:17 PM

Illus get a debuff that decreases crush/slash/pierce/ranged of a mob, coercers get to debuff resistances. dont get ur hopes up :/

Daz · 03-03-2006, 08:30 PM

I would love to see a true fast cast stun that I could use while running. I had hoped they would put one in for AA. That would help the most for pet breaks.

Pins · 03-03-2006, 08:35 PM

You can make your stun fast cast with the AGI line.

Daz · 03-03-2006, 08:50 PM

I just read that! I can't wait to get back online to check into that. Now to figure out how to get the AA a bit faster.Thanks much for the info!

Mandelbro · 03-04-2006, 12:53 AM

Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:
The problem is those ^^^'s are laying down the 2k MELEE hits.

By cycling all your stuns (confoundment, gaze, psychic wail, mindbend), you should be able to keep a mob from Melee'ing your pet at all.

Raidi Sovin'faile · 03-04-2006, 12:56 PM

Mindbend procs a stun when it lands a hit. So my pet has to eat a few hits through the fight to get that stun to work.

There's that little gap between recycling the other stuns that mindbend has to pick up. I've run into some mobs that can nearly kill my pet in one hit.

And regardless, it'd still be a nice alternative to the maxed out line of +DPS. More uses than just soloing.

Enil · 03-06-2006, 06:38 PM

>There's that little gap between recycling the other stuns that mindbend has to pick up. True. Try having stifle up at the time of this little gap. That should reduce the damage from the mob further.

lilbluemo · 03-07-2006, 01:15 AM

Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:
Well for one thing, I seriously doubt your pet will be maxing out his DPS %... so there's one application.. HA!

Seriously though, I'm not a big fan of seeing green over my pet as a coercer. What... I'm "coercing" my pet into mending his cuts and scrapes? Mentally convincing his muscles and skin to repair themselves? Heh.
Nah.. I'd much prefer an ability that drastically REDUCED an enemy's DPS. Right now, I'm not so worried about magical damage (for the most part) since when the guy isn't stunned, he's probably silenced.
The problem is those ^^^'s are laying down the 2k MELEE hits. Sometimes I pray the NPC start casting a spell instead of meleeing, since I know my pet can withstand a couple nukes or dots, but he'll be toast in a few melee hits.

So a -DPS% line replacing our +DPS% line would not only help our pets survive, it would be a nice alternative at the levels where folks are capping, and would even fit the theme of the line... we just turned our learning away from what makes a person do more damage, to what makes a person do less damage. "Coercing" an NPC into holding back hits, etc.
I'm guessing a debuff would be capped at 50% though, since while 100% increase DPS would double, the reverse for reduction would have to be 50% to make it half (100% would mean 0 damage per hit).
So if we do get something like this, expect the numbers to be half as big, to have the same reverse effect (25% debuff would be about equivalent to 50% bonus).

totally aggree.. healing our pets would be bad and just wouldnt make sense with our class. we control minds and thats it really with a few nukes of corse well if you wnat to call them that but how cany ou control someone's mind into healing. the only way i would see it making since to the class is if we were given some sort of spell that would allow us to make our pets use their own spells and therefore if we charmed a healer it could heal but yeah that s a bit complicated. anyways i dont play my coercer hald enough to know alot but that my 2 cents

Raidi Sovin'faile · 03-07-2006, 11:44 AM

A charmed healer will heal right now, but he's really stingy about it... he won't heal you or your friends.

Now that'd be a positively beautiful option if charmed pets could act like that in group. It'd give the Coercer a completely new role in the game, we'd basically be the jack of all trades class + crowd control and a bit of DPS. If our tank pets would hold taunt, scout pets do decent melee damage and disarm chests, healer pets heal and buff the group, and mage pets do what they do now... well we could basically fill in any role that was missing!

The drawback would be that we couldn't directly control the pet and it would only have a portion of the abilities of the real class.... but it'd still be pretty spiffy to have a secondary healer due to the Coercer... and then later if the MT falls, we grab a tank to finish off a fight... or possess our scout pet and use his Evac ability (which he wouldn't be set to do on his own, that'd just be stupid).

*sigh* I shouldn't get so excited about these ideas... I know they'll never happen.

03-03-2006, 01:30 AM	#2
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Zeldyn wrote: t5 velocity does 65% dps increase M1 ----t7 YES t7 Impetus at ad3 does you guessed it 65 % dps increase HOW can this be ???? HOw can t5=t7 ? PLEASEPLEASE fix this !!!!! Because DPS has a cap of 100%, so you won't get as much of an icnrease from newer spells, in fact that line is probably going to end now, and won't get updated next expansion. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

03-03-2006, 03:06 AM	#4
Mandelbro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	Madulaoblongatta wrote: Its almost redundant as you making the same post on different boards. :smileyvery-happy: I like it when Newbies flame Apprentices. Good times. Message Edited by Mandelbrodt on 03-02-200602:07 PM

03-03-2006, 12:22 PM	#9
Norrsken Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,450	Heal my pets?Im an evil coercer that gets whatever is near me to do my bidding. Heal them? I'd rather send them to their deaths. Well, not really, but I dont think that pet heals would work well with the makeout of the class, if there is one...Other things, like being allowed to zone with a pet, stances for the pet and stuff like that would work though.Coercers has to be the only class that gets gimped when going back to gray zones to do some old quests. __________________

03-03-2006, 07:17 PM	#11
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	Illus get a debuff that decreases crush/slash/pierce/ranged of a mob, coercers get to debuff resistances. dont get ur hopes up :/ __________________

03-03-2006, 08:35 PM	#13
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	You can make your stun fast cast with the AGI line. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

03-03-2006, 01:21 AM	#1
Zeld Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4	t5 velocity does 65% dps increase M1 ----t7 YES t7 Impetus at ad3 does you guessed it 65 % dps increase HOW can this be ???? HOw can t5=t7 ? PLEASEPLEASE fix this !!!!!

03-03-2006, 03:04 AM	#3
Madulaoblongatta Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13	Yeah its redundant. Its almost redundant as you making the same post on different boards. The add3 and/or master versions are the upgrade your looking for, ad 1 is nothing special.

03-03-2006, 04:17 AM	#5
Dr_Cyr Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 65	It makes no difference. Most anyone you would use that spell on is going to be capped anyways, between thier own abilities and their gear.Its like throwing haste on a high level monk who is already self hasted above 90%.There are more imprtant things to worry about. They really ought to drop that spell line wiht the T5, and do something else, like maybe give us a line to heal our charmed pets.

03-03-2006, 05:55 AM	#6
Mandelbro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	Dr_Cyrus wrote:There are more imprtant things to worry about. They really ought to drop that spell line wiht the T5, and do something else, like maybe give us a line to heal our charmed pets. Heal a pet so it can turn on us? Remember that your pet is your enemy.

03-03-2006, 06:53 AM	#7
guysery20 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 21	We are not healers. Stuns are our way to mitigate the damage on our pets.

03-03-2006, 08:46 AM	#8
Dr_Cyr Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 65	Heal your pet? Sure.We are also a pet class at least part time. And it needs only be a small heal relatibvely speaking, since your pets get nerfed to no-arrow.Like at the end of a close fight, where you wer stunning like mad becuase its a race between your damage on a ^^^ and your pets health bar - and both are in the red.Or you finished a combat and the pet is way down, and you want to keep him (no other shammy types around perhaps) instead of killing him and getting a new one. Heal would cut the wait time.Or you get aggro and your pet is takngin 2 mobs, and you need a little extra to get him to survive the fight.So yes, I think its a valid line to have.And as far as your pet being your enemy: He's my enemy whether his bar is full or not. If I want to get rid of him, I dont use the heal. Its the same as having them break after a rest between combat. No difference in the risk.So I think the objections are off base. And we sure dont need any more of the buff line that is well over whats useful in actual application, so why nto a situational spell? Ours is the ultimate situaltional class, right?

03-03-2006, 12:46 PM	#10
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Well for one thing, I seriously doubt your pet will be maxing out his DPS %... so there's one application.. HA! Seriously though, I'm not a big fan of seeing green over my pet as a coercer. What... I'm "coercing" my pet into mending his cuts and scrapes? Mentally convincing his muscles and skin to repair themselves? Heh. Nah.. I'd much prefer an ability that drastically REDUCED an enemy's DPS. Right now, I'm not so worried about magical damage (for the most part) since when the guy isn't stunned, he's probably silenced. The problem is those ^^^'s are laying down the 2k MELEE hits. Sometimes I pray the NPC start casting a spell instead of meleeing, since I know my pet can withstand a couple nukes or dots, but he'll be toast in a few melee hits. So a -DPS% line replacing our +DPS% line would not only help our pets survive, it would be a nice alternative at the levels where folks are capping, and would even fit the theme of the line... we just turned our learning away from what makes a person do more damage, to what makes a person do less damage. "Coercing" an NPC into holding back hits, etc. I'm guessing a debuff would be capped at 50% though, since while 100% increase DPS would double, the reverse for reduction would have to be 50% to make it half (100% would mean 0 damage per hit). So if we do get something like this, expect the numbers to be half as big, to have the same reverse effect (25% debuff would be about equivalent to 50% bonus).

03-03-2006, 08:30 PM	#12
Daz Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	I would love to see a true fast cast stun that I could use while running. I had hoped they would put one in for AA. That would help the most for pet breaks.

03-03-2006, 08:50 PM	#14
Daz Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	I just read that! I can't wait to get back online to check into that. Now to figure out how to get the AA a bit faster.Thanks much for the info!

03-04-2006, 12:53 AM	#15
Mandelbro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	Raidi Sovin'faile wrote: The problem is those ^^^'s are laying down the 2k MELEE hits. By cycling all your stuns (confoundment, gaze, psychic wail, mindbend), you should be able to keep a mob from Melee'ing your pet at all.

03-04-2006, 12:56 PM	#16
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Mindbend procs a stun when it lands a hit. So my pet has to eat a few hits through the fight to get that stun to work. There's that little gap between recycling the other stuns that mindbend has to pick up. I've run into some mobs that can nearly kill my pet in one hit. And regardless, it'd still be a nice alternative to the maxed out line of +DPS. More uses than just soloing.

03-06-2006, 06:38 PM	#17
Enil Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	>There's that little gap between recycling the other stuns that mindbend has to pick up. True. Try having stifle up at the time of this little gap. That should reduce the damage from the mob further.

03-07-2006, 01:15 AM	#18
lilbluemo Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 59	Raidi Sovin'faile wrote: Well for one thing, I seriously doubt your pet will be maxing out his DPS %... so there's one application.. HA! Seriously though, I'm not a big fan of seeing green over my pet as a coercer. What... I'm "coercing" my pet into mending his cuts and scrapes? Mentally convincing his muscles and skin to repair themselves? Heh. Nah.. I'd much prefer an ability that drastically REDUCED an enemy's DPS. Right now, I'm not so worried about magical damage (for the most part) since when the guy isn't stunned, he's probably silenced. The problem is those ^^^'s are laying down the 2k MELEE hits. Sometimes I pray the NPC start casting a spell instead of meleeing, since I know my pet can withstand a couple nukes or dots, but he'll be toast in a few melee hits. So a -DPS% line replacing our +DPS% line would not only help our pets survive, it would be a nice alternative at the levels where folks are capping, and would even fit the theme of the line... we just turned our learning away from what makes a person do more damage, to what makes a person do less damage. "Coercing" an NPC into holding back hits, etc. I'm guessing a debuff would be capped at 50% though, since while 100% increase DPS would double, the reverse for reduction would have to be 50% to make it half (100% would mean 0 damage per hit). So if we do get something like this, expect the numbers to be half as big, to have the same reverse effect (25% debuff would be about equivalent to 50% bonus). totally aggree.. healing our pets would be bad and just wouldnt make sense with our class. we control minds and thats it really with a few nukes of corse well if you wnat to call them that but how cany ou control someone's mind into healing. the only way i would see it making since to the class is if we were given some sort of spell that would allow us to make our pets use their own spells and therefore if we charmed a healer it could heal but yeah that s a bit complicated. anyways i dont play my coercer hald enough to know alot but that my 2 cents __________________

03-07-2006, 11:44 AM	#19
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	A charmed healer will heal right now, but he's really stingy about it... he won't heal you or your friends. Now that'd be a positively beautiful option if charmed pets could act like that in group. It'd give the Coercer a completely new role in the game, we'd basically be the jack of all trades class + crowd control and a bit of DPS. If our tank pets would hold taunt, scout pets do decent melee damage and disarm chests, healer pets heal and buff the group, and mage pets do what they do now... well we could basically fill in any role that was missing! The drawback would be that we couldn't directly control the pet and it would only have a portion of the abilities of the real class.... but it'd still be pretty spiffy to have a secondary healer due to the Coercer... and then later if the MT falls, we grab a tank to finish off a fight... or possess our scout pet and use his Evac ability (which he wouldn't be set to do on his own, that'd just be stupid). sigh I shouldn't get so excited about these ideas... I know they'll never happen.