Try again - What do you think of current Charm (unofficial sampling)

Bloodtoo · 12-02-2005, 04:03 AM

Disapointed in Raijinn, didn't think he was one of those guys that only could not interpret rules and apply them as gospel.Still, lets try this again without the "forbidden P word" - Please post one choice per person and if you have any comments include them in your post. Please keep it brief so we can keep this from running away. I'll tally the results evey so often and update the header.1) I like Charm just the way it is and wouldn't change a thing.2) My issues with Charm are insignificant at this time. Nothing worth complaining about.3) Just fix the bugs and I'm good.4) I Use Charm regularly, I have some issue but I'd hate to risk a nerf to get them fixed.5) Charm is useable and useful but is still fundamentally broken.6) Charm is mostly not useful and is fundamentally broken.7) Charm is completely broken and unusable, not even on my hotbar. SMILEY

I refuse to play my Coercer until Charm is fixed.9) No opinion.10) It's soft and gentle on my tender behind...oh wait did you say Charmin ?** If you make more than one choice I will take the highest number as the choices are set in order of increasing discontent the highest discontent is the most relevant. # / % out of 19 posters.1)2) 1 / 05%3) 4 / 21%4) 7 / 37%5) 7 / 37%6)7) SMILEY

9)10)Disclaimer - The results from this only represent the relatively small sampling of posters to this forum that happen to stumble upon this thread. This in no way in meant to indicate or represent in anyway what the general population of Coercers or their opinions. This information is being gathered for personal interest only.

Message Edited by Bloodtooth on 12-05-2005 11:24 AM

Message Edited by Bloodtooth on 12-12-2005 09:49 PM

Auntee · 12-02-2005, 04:05 AM

4

I'd like to see some tuning to compensate for the extra risk involved with charming ^^^ mobs.

Greenjel · 12-02-2005, 04:58 AM

#3 here. I really don't see any way we could charm ^^^ and not have them nerfed down while keeping balance.

I think we should just be thankful we even have the option of charming ^^^ at ALL, it has some very valid uses outside of a personal wrecking ball, like being able to charm an annoying see invis ^^^ in your way and have him go suicide on a couple of solo mobs at once.

-Proboscus,

50 coercer,

Neriak

Krelfeari · 12-02-2005, 11:26 AM

again, 3+4+5

charming grays and ^^^ mobs as well as VVV mobs are all very flawed.

charm is still very buggy with causing u to get stuck in encounters and such.

also the current scaling is way off and apparently multiplies the spells power from adpet1 to master1 by several times. I wish all my spells went triple or more like that as I upgraded them. This was imo, unimaginitive and just an attempt to kinda shut us up and tide us over til they can really fix the spell.

I'll stop there and cut the devs some slack cause I expect great things in LU#18

beev · 12-02-2005, 11:53 AM

3, 4, and 5.

Short answer. Were a poor pet class.

Long answer...We have this charm, the risk of which way overblows the reward.

We need TWO high level charms. One HIGH risk random duration no detune. and One low risk raid usable. The charm we have now, comes close to neither. The problem, is rather than balance the reward to the risk, they keep trying to lower the risk. I WANT HIGH RISK. AND REWARD TO MATCH. I want the risk of a mob turning to kill me, and the power that goes with that risk. What we have now is mediocre risk to reward - AT BEST.

Charm, by nature, is to controll a thing. What we have now, is not charm. Its like gaining control of an indy car only to have it become a tricycle.

Bloodtoo · 12-02-2005, 02:33 PM

updated results

Encantador · 12-02-2005, 03:57 PM

5 ... although I could have done with the separate scores for the following scenarios. As a solo ability its a 3. In a group, levelling in open areas its a 4. In groups fighting in dungeons, instances, etc. and in raids its more like a 6.

However it is not necessarily charm that is broken. For example, I would make it a flat out 3 if things around charm were adjusted like charm and stun being faster to cast. In fact, just add a .5 sec cast, 4 sec duration, 5m radius, PBAE stun with say a 3min recast and shorten the charm cast time to 2 secs and I would just want the bugs fixing.

I feel I should be able to cope with 2 separate adds and a charm break at the same time while fighting in a group. With the spells we have this is next to impossible (at least for me) especially if you have just used both your single target stuns. Perhaps I am just too old and too slow to react but while fighting Cazel it was too dificult for me. The cast/recast times on our spells are far too long.

Note that the 2 adds would not have been a problem even though they went straight for me. I had the group that added mezzed and was trying to get the ^^^ add mezzed with it and my ex pet (^^) beating on me. A quick casting stun preferably a PBAE and I would have been fine.

Morthore · 12-02-2005, 10:16 PM

4

Tanatus · 12-03-2005, 02:35 AM

between 3 and 4

Bloodtoo · 12-06-2005, 12:24 AM

updated results

Furrfoot · 12-09-2005, 05:54 PM

#4 -- But only because I have dominate M1. Adept 3, which I had before, would rank around #6-#7.Even if #4 is not particularily high, when soloing, charm is really our best weapon. With M1 charm, taking on solo targets, you don't need anything else but charm and demeanor line.Charm still has major drawbacks. No zoning, limited to local pets, time needed to get and maintain it, not beeing able to go for loo breaks without fear of death, still not really useable in most groups, etc. Of course Dying has next to no penalty now, and you can race back to almost any spot in no time. While this makes charming bearable, it ultimately ruins the in game athmosphere.During the last LUs they seem to have finally decided they want another crowd of players, maybe a bigger one, and they don't care for those that started playing EQ2 originally over, say, WoW.I feel growing bored and emotionally distanced from Norrath the more I see this turned into a simpler and simpler game catering to the warcraft crowd, with just occasional and unavoidable setbacks built in, and no skill involved.Furrfoot60 Bored (former Coercer)

Daz · 12-09-2005, 06:09 PM

.4 for me!

Thanks for taking this "unofficial sampling" It is nice to see what other people think of charm.

(I have adept III Dominate)

Eiline

57 Coercer

PluvianMi · 12-12-2005, 04:40 AM

5.

I used it a reasonable amount when soloing and almost never in groups.

My latest "issue" with charm is that even though the description makes it sound like the only mobs it will never work on are epics I keep running into other mobs that it can't be cast on which is annoying.

Bull Crocodiles?

Croc Hunters?

Dune Tarantulas?

Just to name a few...

The additional mobs appear to be arbitrarily given "anti-charm" ability.

Are there spells for other classes that exhibit the similar behavior in that respect where they can't be cast at all on some mobs despite the description stating that the exemption for the spell is only for epics?

Tanatus · 12-13-2005, 03:40 AM

Gmm I have succefully charmed dune tarrantulas ...

Auntee · 12-13-2005, 07:59 AM

Have you been able to do that for a while Tanatus, or is that something recent? I always get the "would not take effect" message when trying to charm those guys.

Auntee · 12-13-2005, 08:01 AM

PluvianMist wrote:

The additional mobs appear to be arbitrarily given "anti-charm" ability.

I apologize for not finding the post...

Someone on these forums suggested that the uncharmable mobs are quest-related in one way or another and locked to preserve their availability for the questers.

Bloodtoo · 12-13-2005, 10:47 AM

Hey quit hijacking the thread! One vote per player include your one related comment on your choice only. If you want to post about your marvelous exploits post in one of the other countless charm threads. I'll take this opportunity to post my vote and opinion. I choose 4. I'd like to see the bugs worked out, really think charm needs to "kittenize" the mob less especially with random break. I worry if we pushed hard for these changes devs would feel they have to take away somewhere else. Invariably those take-aways hurt a lot. Bug fixes we should not be penalized for but we've seen the devs get confused on these thinking they increased where they nerfed so they nerf again (stun/mez duration)

Bloodtoo · 12-13-2005, 10:49 AM

updated results

12-02-2005, 11:53 AM	#5
beev Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 31	3, 4, and 5. Short answer. Were a poor pet class. Long answer...We have this charm, the risk of which way overblows the reward. We need TWO high level charms. One HIGH risk random duration no detune. and One low risk raid usable. The charm we have now, comes close to neither. The problem, is rather than balance the reward to the risk, they keep trying to lower the risk. I WANT HIGH RISK. AND REWARD TO MATCH. I want the risk of a mob turning to kill me, and the power that goes with that risk. What we have now is mediocre risk to reward - AT BEST. Charm, by nature, is to controll a thing. What we have now, is not charm. Its like gaining control of an indy car only to have it become a tricycle. __________________ Arryk - Officer Commorient Kindred

12-06-2005, 12:24 AM	#10
Bloodtoo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	updated results __________________ Freeport is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. -- Hunter S. Thompson (slight interpretation)

12-13-2005, 08:01 AM	#16
Auntee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	PluvianMist wrote: The additional mobs appear to be arbitrarily given "anti-charm" ability. I apologize for not finding the post... Someone on these forums suggested that the uncharmable mobs are quest-related in one way or another and locked to preserve their availability for the questers.

12-13-2005, 10:47 AM	#17
Bloodtoo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Hey quit hijacking the thread! One vote per player include your one related comment on your choice only. If you want to post about your marvelous exploits post in one of the other countless charm threads. I'll take this opportunity to post my vote and opinion. I choose 4. I'd like to see the bugs worked out, really think charm needs to "kittenize" the mob less especially with random break. I worry if we pushed hard for these changes devs would feel they have to take away somewhere else. Invariably those take-aways hurt a lot. Bug fixes we should not be penalized for but we've seen the devs get confused on these thinking they increased where they nerfed so they nerf again (stun/mez duration) __________________ Freeport is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. -- Hunter S. Thompson (slight interpretation)

12-02-2005, 04:03 AM	#1
Bloodtoo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Disapointed in Raijinn, didn't think he was one of those guys that only could not interpret rules and apply them as gospel.Still, lets try this again without the "forbidden P word" - Please post one choice per person and if you have any comments include them in your post. Please keep it brief so we can keep this from running away. I'll tally the results evey so often and update the header.1) I like Charm just the way it is and wouldn't change a thing.2) My issues with Charm are insignificant at this time. Nothing worth complaining about.3) Just fix the bugs and I'm good.4) I Use Charm regularly, I have some issue but I'd hate to risk a nerf to get them fixed.5) Charm is useable and useful but is still fundamentally broken.6) Charm is mostly not useful and is fundamentally broken.7) Charm is completely broken and unusable, not even on my hotbar. I refuse to play my Coercer until Charm is fixed.9) No opinion.10) It's soft and gentle on my tender behind...oh wait did you say Charmin ? If you make more than one choice I will take the highest number as the choices are set in order of increasing discontent the highest discontent is the most relevant. # / % out of 19 posters.1)2) 1 / 05%3) 4 / 21%4) 7 / 37%5) 7 / 37%6)7)9)10)Disclaimer** - The results from this only represent the relatively small sampling of posters to this forum that happen to stumble upon this thread. This in no way in meant to indicate or represent in anyway what the general population of Coercers or their opinions. This information is being gathered for personal interest only. Message Edited by Bloodtooth on 12-05-2005 11:24 AM Message Edited by Bloodtooth on 12-12-2005 09:49 PM __________________ Freeport is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. -- Hunter S. Thompson (slight interpretation)

12-02-2005, 04:05 AM	#2
Auntee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	4 I'd like to see some tuning to compensate for the extra risk involved with charming ^^^ mobs.

12-02-2005, 04:58 AM	#3
Greenjel Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 95	#3 here. I really don't see any way we could charm ^^^ and not have them nerfed down while keeping balance. I think we should just be thankful we even have the option of charming ^^^ at ALL, it has some very valid uses outside of a personal wrecking ball, like being able to charm an annoying see invis ^^^ in your way and have him go suicide on a couple of solo mobs at once. -Proboscus, 50 coercer, Neriak

12-02-2005, 11:26 AM	#4
Krelfeari Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 413	again, 3+4+5 charming grays and ^^^ mobs as well as VVV mobs are all very flawed. charm is still very buggy with causing u to get stuck in encounters and such. also the current scaling is way off and apparently multiplies the spells power from adpet1 to master1 by several times. I wish all my spells went triple or more like that as I upgraded them. This was imo, unimaginitive and just an attempt to kinda shut us up and tide us over til they can really fix the spell. I'll stop there and cut the devs some slack cause I expect great things in LU#18 __________________ Psykoala Hypnoplatypus, first Ratongan Coercer to be diagnosed with "Animal Skitzophrenia" where each personality is a different creature. Sig Update: November 16, 2005 Lvl 31 Quests 230+ Current personality: Owlbear

12-02-2005, 02:33 PM	#6
Bloodtoo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	updated results __________________ Freeport is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. -- Hunter S. Thompson (slight interpretation)

12-02-2005, 03:57 PM	#7
Encantador Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	5 ... although I could have done with the separate scores for the following scenarios. As a solo ability its a 3. In a group, levelling in open areas its a 4. In groups fighting in dungeons, instances, etc. and in raids its more like a 6. However it is not necessarily charm that is broken. For example, I would make it a flat out 3 if things around charm were adjusted like charm and stun being faster to cast. In fact, just add a .5 sec cast, 4 sec duration, 5m radius, PBAE stun with say a 3min recast and shorten the charm cast time to 2 secs and I would just want the bugs fixing. I feel I should be able to cope with 2 separate adds and a charm break at the same time while fighting in a group. With the spells we have this is next to impossible (at least for me) especially if you have just used both your single target stuns. Perhaps I am just too old and too slow to react but while fighting Cazel it was too dificult for me. The cast/recast times on our spells are far too long. Note that the 2 adds would not have been a problem even though they went straight for me. I had the group that added mezzed and was trying to get the ^^^ add mezzed with it and my ex pet (^^) beating on me. A quick casting stun preferably a PBAE and I would have been fine.

12-02-2005, 10:16 PM	#8
Morthore Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	4

12-03-2005, 02:35 AM	#9
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	between 3 and 4

12-09-2005, 05:54 PM	#11
Furrfoot Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 34	#4 -- But only because I have dominate M1. Adept 3, which I had before, would rank around #6-#7.Even if #4 is not particularily high, when soloing, charm is really our best weapon. With M1 charm, taking on solo targets, you don't need anything else but charm and demeanor line.Charm still has major drawbacks. No zoning, limited to local pets, time needed to get and maintain it, not beeing able to go for loo breaks without fear of death, still not really useable in most groups, etc. Of course Dying has next to no penalty now, and you can race back to almost any spot in no time. While this makes charming bearable, it ultimately ruins the in game athmosphere.During the last LUs they seem to have finally decided they want another crowd of players, maybe a bigger one, and they don't care for those that started playing EQ2 originally over, say, WoW.I feel growing bored and emotionally distanced from Norrath the more I see this turned into a simpler and simpler game catering to the warcraft crowd, with just occasional and unavoidable setbacks built in, and no skill involved.Furrfoot60 Bored (former Coercer)

12-09-2005, 06:09 PM	#12
Daz Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	.4 for me! Thanks for taking this "unofficial sampling" It is nice to see what other people think of charm. (I have adept III Dominate) Eiline 57 Coercer

12-12-2005, 04:40 AM	#13
PluvianMi Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 195	5. I used it a reasonable amount when soloing and almost never in groups. My latest "issue" with charm is that even though the description makes it sound like the only mobs it will never work on are epics I keep running into other mobs that it can't be cast on which is annoying. Bull Crocodiles? Croc Hunters? Dune Tarantulas? Just to name a few... The additional mobs appear to be arbitrarily given "anti-charm" ability. Are there spells for other classes that exhibit the similar behavior in that respect where they can't be cast at all on some mobs despite the description stating that the exemption for the spell is only for epics?

12-13-2005, 03:40 AM	#14
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Gmm I have succefully charmed dune tarrantulas ...

12-13-2005, 07:59 AM	#15
Auntee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	Have you been able to do that for a while Tanatus, or is that something recent? I always get the "would not take effect" message when trying to charm those guys.

12-13-2005, 10:49 AM	#18
Bloodtoo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	updated results __________________ Freeport is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. -- Hunter S. Thompson (slight interpretation)