Invis

Neric · 10-05-2005, 10:13 PM

Coercers got an invis with a speed buff and lasted 10 mins, the illusionist got a slow movement speed GROUP invis with did not last as long.

NOW there is no movement speed debuff and all last 10 mins.

So just other area illusionist kick us at? MAN, give us group invis!

nithrill · 10-06-2005, 03:38 PM

natjur wrote:

Coercers got an invis with a speed buff and lasted 10 mins, the illusionist got a slow movement speed GROUP invis with did not last as long.

NOW there is no movement speed debuff and all last 10 mins.

So just other area illusionist kick us at? MAN, give us group invis!

Illusionist nolonger have group invis. I believe that it was removed with the combat rewamp.

KaynanEmberwood · 10-06-2005, 05:36 PM

nithrill wrote:
Illusionist nolonger have group invis. I believe that it was removed with the combat rewamp.

Uhh...yea...that's right. No group invis here, move along! SMILEY

How come you didn't want group invis when it was only 2.5 min duration?? Besides, isn't this topic like a year old now? :smileyvery-happy: Oh, and not sure if the OP realizes or not, but we also have a similar single target invis as well.

Encantador · 10-07-2005, 05:07 PM

It isn't that we did not want it. It is that we thought it was fine that you got a short duration GROUP invis with a speed penalty (AND a single target one I believe?) and we got a SINGLE target invis with a small run boost. Personally I though 2.5 mins was low and 5 mins was about right but I in no way thought your group invis was better than my single one. Now? we have lost the speed buff and you have lost the speed penalty, the group one lasts the same time as our single, so the group is quite simply better.

We got 2 nerfs and you got a boost.

Do I want a group invis? Not particularly. Do I want your group invis nerfing? NO As I posted in another thread illusionists need a few tweaks and this was one.

Then what is annoying about this change? The best way I can express this is to ask illusionists to show me the green grass on my side of the fence.

KaynanEmberwood · 10-07-2005, 05:34 PM

encanta wrote:
Now? we have lost the speed buff and you have lost the speed penalty, the group one lasts the same time as our single, so the group is quite simply better.

Not that this helps any, but our group invis used to last 15 minutes without any speed penalty prior to LU13.

encanta wrote:
Then what is annoying about this change? The best way I can express this is to ask illusionists to show me the green grass on my side of the fence.

I don't know, as I don't play a coercer and I don't know all of your spells (do you still get group haste?). I do know that this is the exact mentality that in the past has been used to get each other nerfed and it really needs to stop.

Encantador · 10-07-2005, 06:48 PM

Kaisa I expected better from you SMILEY .

No Kaisa we do not get a group haste. We get a single target, one concentration slot, DPS increaser, which is our counterpart of your celerity.

It seems you took my comment the wrong way. It is a parody of a quote from an illusionist on this board. He said he felt coercers were better and was jealous of our powers. He went further to suggest that such comparisons as have been made in this board are biased and really illusionist and coercer are about equal [but note he was still jealous]. I found this very annoying.

Ok so far as I am concerned the OP could have made a better point after all it is not just illusionist group invis that was improved. But it did not require someone to come here and start stirring things. Your own post contains a couple of jibes "How come you didn't want group invis when it was only 2.5 min duration??" and "Oh, and not sure if the OP realizes or not, but we also have a similar single target invis as well". Stop poking coercers who make poor posts.

I would also suggest you go berate the Illusionists about comparisons. I just spent 2 mins looking up the words coercer and charm on the illusionist board from the last 30 days ...

There are plenty of posts complaining that coercers get an uber spell which puts us top of raid damage lists, have an uber charm which is way better than personnae et al., "coercers are clearly the stronger class now", coercers have better power regen, etc etc.

I would give you chapter and verse but this is my last comment on this subject and whilst I might read any reply I will not post again in this thread. In fact I will go further, I will not post in the EQ2 forums for a week.

I will re-iterate ... From what I have seen in game, and read on these boards, illusionists are about right now and need just a few tweaks. Even if not tweaked illusionists would be fine until the next expansion. Coercers are NOT fixed.

I do not want parity in every thing enchanters do. I do not want to be recognised as the 'better' subclass.

What I do want is what we have been promised. A fun to play enchanter character which is able to solo, out damage the tanks in groups/raids, and is at the top of the 'tier 3' damage group.

KaynanEmberwood · 10-07-2005, 07:11 PM

encanta wrote:
Kaisa I expected better from you .

Arrgg...you and my mom both...all this pressure!! SMILEY

My comments in yellow

encanta wrote:
No Kaisa we do not get a group haste. We get a single target, one concentration slot, DPS increaser, which is our counterpart of your celerity.

Ok, that's why I asked. Like I said, I don't know your spells all that well.

It seems you took my comment the wrong way. It is a parody of a quote from an illusionist on this board. He said he felt coercers were better and was jealous of our powers. He went further to suggest that such comparisons as have been made in this board are biased and really illusionist and coercer are about equal [but note he was still jealous]. I found this very annoying.

The coercer board has been really active lately so I don't read every post made here, so I missed out on the joke here.

Ok so far as I am concerned the OP could have made a better point after all it is not just illusionist group invis that was improved. But it did not require someone to come here and start stirring things. Your own post contains a couple of jibes "How come you didn't want group invis when it was only 2.5 min duration??" and "Oh, and not sure if the OP realizes or not, but we also have a similar single target invis as well". Stop poking coercers who make poor posts.

The 2.5 min duration comment was meant the way you took it, but the second one was purely just to inform. It seemed like the OP was trying to compare your single target invis directly to our group invis where a better comparison would be between our single target invises.

I would also suggest you go berate the Illusionists about comparisons. I just spent 2 mins looking up the words coercer and charm on the illusionist board from the last 30 days ...

There are plenty of posts complaining that coercers get an uber spell which puts us top of raid damage lists, have an uber charm which is way better than personnae et al., "coercers are clearly the stronger class now", coercers have better power regen, etc etc.

Those people clearly have no clue about how your charm works. If charm worked the same way it used to work in EQ then they might have a point, but the fact that every mob you charm becomes a normal (non-heroic, no up arrow etc) makes charm close to useless (IMO). As for power regen...well they're not wrong but it's hardly fair to say that when comparing. The fact is that you get an upgrade at level 60 to your power regen line and we'll just have to wait until the next expansion for ours. I fully expect that come the next expansion there will be coercers up in arms about the lack up an upgrade when we get one

I would give you chapter and verse but this is my last comment on this subject and whilst I might read any reply I will not post again in this thread. In fact I will go further, I will not post in the EQ2 forums for a week.

Ok, but it's not like this is a flame fest or anything...

I will re-iterate ... From what I have seen in game, and read on these boards, illusionists are about right now and need just a few tweaks. Even if not tweaked illusionists would be fine until the next expansion. Coercers are NOT fixed.

I agree. My only point in my previous post was that saying coercers are broken compared to Illusionists is more likely to get illusionist nerfed than coercers fixed.

I do not want parity in every thing enchanters do. I do not want to be recognised as the 'better' subclass.

What I do want is what we have been promised. A fun to play enchanter character which is able to solo, out damage the tanks in groups/raids, and is at the top of the 'tier 3' damage group.

Again, I fully agree. Right now, Illusionists are fun to play and I want you guys to get whatever loving you need to make your class fun to play. I just don't think the OP is going about trying to get changes the right way.

So to sum up, I'm not trying to come over here and "start stirring things". I want groups to want enchanters to join them regardless of their subclass, so it's in our best interest to work together. There's been some really crappy cross posters in the past from both camps and that's the last thing I want to see happen again, so my appologies if you took my post(s) that way.

PigLick · 10-07-2005, 08:04 PM

KaynanEmberwood wrote:
The fact is that you get an upgrade at level 60 to your power regen line and we'll just have to wait until the next expansion for ours. I fully expect that come the next expansion there will be coercers up in arms about the lack up an upgrade when we get one

Actually, that's not a fact, we don't get that upgrade at 60 anymore. So we both have to wait for the next expansion (well, next raising of the elvel cap). As far as coercer vs illusionist threads/comments, I agree that I don't like to see calling for nerfs of one or the other. However, when discussing our abilities, it is only logical that we're going to compare ourselves to one another. Enchanter is a unique class, the two subclasses are inevitably going to get compared and contrasted with one another, because there's no one else to compare and contrast with. I absolutely do not want to see Illusionists get nerfed, but I'm not going to shy away from making comparisons if I think they're valid in the fear that devs might decide to change illusionists instead of coercers, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either, nor would I ask them to do so. The devs (if they actually bother to deal with any enchanter issues) are going to look at a situation and do what they want to do based on their observations. If theydecide to nerf Illusionists instead of buffing coercers, that's just mor reason for us to band together and fight for enchanters, not blame and bicker over the subclasses. PigLick

KaynanEmberwood · 10-07-2005, 08:37 PM

PigLickJF wrote:
KaynanEmberwood wrote:
The fact is that you get an upgrade at level 60 to your power regen line and we'll just have to wait until the next expansion for ours. I fully expect that come the next expansion there will be coercers up in arms about the lack up an upgrade when we get one
Actually, that's not a fact, we don't get that upgrade at 60 anymore. So we both have to wait for the next expansion (well, next raising of the elvel cap).

You don't get Ease anymore? Wow, that sucks. Ok, I'll refrain from posting about something I obviously know nothing about (ie: coercer spells SMILEY

)

Gilbert · 10-07-2005, 08:45 PM

Yeah the best part is that bards will have higher regen rates then us at level 55.

Murdaben · 10-08-2005, 08:05 PM

"My only point in my previous post was that saying coercers are broken compared to Illusionists is more likely to get illusionist nerfed than coercers fixed."

So sad, but so true - thats how Sony "fixes" things. Procrustes would be proud. :smileymad:

And yes, I have heard that at 60, bards are preferred over coercers beause they can also buff the heck out of the tank.

10-05-2005, 10:13 PM	#1
Neric Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88	Coercers got an invis with a speed buff and lasted 10 mins, the illusionist got a slow movement speed GROUP invis with did not last as long. NOW there is no movement speed debuff and all last 10 mins. So just other area illusionist kick us at? MAN, give us group invis! __________________

10-06-2005, 03:38 PM	#2
nithrill Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 124	natjur wrote: Coercers got an invis with a speed buff and lasted 10 mins, the illusionist got a slow movement speed GROUP invis with did not last as long. NOW there is no movement speed debuff and all last 10 mins. So just other area illusionist kick us at? MAN, give us group invis! Illusionist nolonger have group invis. I believe that it was removed with the combat rewamp. __________________ ... I see you - Nithrill - 65 Coercer - Harlequin, The world of Runnyeye

10-06-2005, 05:36 PM	#3
KaynanEmberwood Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	nithrill wrote: Illusionist nolonger have group invis. I believe that it was removed with the combat rewamp. Uhh...yea...that's right. No group invis here, move along! How come you didn't want group invis when it was only 2.5 min duration?? Besides, isn't this topic like a year old now? :smileyvery-happy: Oh, and not sure if the OP realizes or not, but we also have a similar single target invis as well. __________________ Kaisa 53rd Illusionist of Antonia Bayle

10-07-2005, 05:34 PM	#5
KaynanEmberwood Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	encanta wrote: Now? we have lost the speed buff and you have lost the speed penalty, the group one lasts the same time as our single, so the group is quite simply better. Not that this helps any, but our group invis used to last 15 minutes without any speed penalty prior to LU13. encanta wrote: Then what is annoying about this change? The best way I can express this is to ask illusionists to show me the green grass on my side of the fence. I don't know, as I don't play a coercer and I don't know all of your spells (do you still get group haste?). I do know that this is the exact mentality that in the past has been used to get each other nerfed and it really needs to stop. __________________ Kaisa 53rd Illusionist of Antonia Bayle

10-07-2005, 06:48 PM	#6
Encantador Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Kaisa I expected better from you . No Kaisa we do not get a group haste. We get a single target, one concentration slot, DPS increaser, which is our counterpart of your celerity. It seems you took my comment the wrong way. It is a parody of a quote from an illusionist on this board. He said he felt coercers were better and was jealous of our powers. He went further to suggest that such comparisons as have been made in this board are biased and really illusionist and coercer are about equal [but note he was still jealous]. I found this very annoying. Ok so far as I am concerned the OP could have made a better point after all it is not just illusionist group invis that was improved. But it did not require someone to come here and start stirring things. Your own post contains a couple of jibes "How come you didn't want group invis when it was only 2.5 min duration??" and "Oh, and not sure if the OP realizes or not, but we also have a similar single target invis as well". Stop poking coercers who make poor posts. I would also suggest you go berate the Illusionists about comparisons. I just spent 2 mins looking up the words coercer and charm on the illusionist board from the last 30 days ... There are plenty of posts complaining that coercers get an uber spell which puts us top of raid damage lists, have an uber charm which is way better than personnae et al., "coercers are clearly the stronger class now", coercers have better power regen, etc etc. I would give you chapter and verse but this is my last comment on this subject and whilst I might read any reply I will not post again in this thread. In fact I will go further, I will not post in the EQ2 forums for a week. I will re-iterate ... From what I have seen in game, and read on these boards, illusionists are about right now and need just a few tweaks. Even if not tweaked illusionists would be fine until the next expansion. Coercers are NOT fixed. I do not want parity in every thing enchanters do. I do not want to be recognised as the 'better' subclass. What I do want is what we have been promised. A fun to play enchanter character which is able to solo, out damage the tanks in groups/raids, and is at the top of the 'tier 3' damage group.

10-07-2005, 05:07 PM	#4
Encantador Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	It isn't that we did not want it. It is that we thought it was fine that you got a short duration GROUP invis with a speed penalty (AND a single target one I believe?) and we got a SINGLE target invis with a small run boost. Personally I though 2.5 mins was low and 5 mins was about right but I in no way thought your group invis was better than my single one. Now? we have lost the speed buff and you have lost the speed penalty, the group one lasts the same time as our single, so the group is quite simply better. We got 2 nerfs and you got a boost. Do I want a group invis? Not particularly. Do I want your group invis nerfing? NO As I posted in another thread illusionists need a few tweaks and this was one. Then what is annoying about this change? The best way I can express this is to ask illusionists to show me the green grass on my side of the fence.

10-07-2005, 07:11 PM	#7
KaynanEmberwood Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	encanta wrote: Kaisa I expected better from you . Arrgg...you and my mom both...all this pressure!! My comments in yellow encanta wrote: No Kaisa we do not get a group haste. We get a single target, one concentration slot, DPS increaser, which is our counterpart of your celerity. Ok, that's why I asked. Like I said, I don't know your spells all that well. It seems you took my comment the wrong way. It is a parody of a quote from an illusionist on this board. He said he felt coercers were better and was jealous of our powers. He went further to suggest that such comparisons as have been made in this board are biased and really illusionist and coercer are about equal [but note he was still jealous]. I found this very annoying. The coercer board has been really active lately so I don't read every post made here, so I missed out on the joke here. Ok so far as I am concerned the OP could have made a better point after all it is not just illusionist group invis that was improved. But it did not require someone to come here and start stirring things. Your own post contains a couple of jibes "How come you didn't want group invis when it was only 2.5 min duration??" and "Oh, and not sure if the OP realizes or not, but we also have a similar single target invis as well". Stop poking coercers who make poor posts. The 2.5 min duration comment was meant the way you took it, but the second one was purely just to inform. It seemed like the OP was trying to compare your single target invis directly to our group invis where a better comparison would be between our single target invises. I would also suggest you go berate the Illusionists about comparisons. I just spent 2 mins looking up the words coercer and charm on the illusionist board from the last 30 days ... There are plenty of posts complaining that coercers get an uber spell which puts us top of raid damage lists, have an uber charm which is way better than personnae et al., "coercers are clearly the stronger class now", coercers have better power regen, etc etc. Those people clearly have no clue about how your charm works. If charm worked the same way it used to work in EQ then they might have a point, but the fact that every mob you charm becomes a normal (non-heroic, no up arrow etc) makes charm close to useless (IMO). As for power regen...well they're not wrong but it's hardly fair to say that when comparing. The fact is that you get an upgrade at level 60 to your power regen line and we'll just have to wait until the next expansion for ours. I fully expect that come the next expansion there will be coercers up in arms about the lack up an upgrade when we get one I would give you chapter and verse but this is my last comment on this subject and whilst I might read any reply I will not post again in this thread. In fact I will go further, I will not post in the EQ2 forums for a week. Ok, but it's not like this is a flame fest or anything... I will re-iterate ... From what I have seen in game, and read on these boards, illusionists are about right now and need just a few tweaks. Even if not tweaked illusionists would be fine until the next expansion. Coercers are NOT fixed. I agree. My only point in my previous post was that saying coercers are broken compared to Illusionists is more likely to get illusionist nerfed than coercers fixed. I do not want parity in every thing enchanters do. I do not want to be recognised as the 'better' subclass. What I do want is what we have been promised. A fun to play enchanter character which is able to solo, out damage the tanks in groups/raids, and is at the top of the 'tier 3' damage group. Again, I fully agree. Right now, Illusionists are fun to play and I want you guys to get whatever loving you need to make your class fun to play. I just don't think the OP is going about trying to get changes the right way. So to sum up, I'm not trying to come over here and "start stirring things". I want groups to want enchanters to join them regardless of their subclass, so it's in our best interest to work together. There's been some really crappy cross posters in the past from both camps and that's the last thing I want to see happen again, so my appologies if you took my post(s) that way. __________________ Kaisa 53rd Illusionist of Antonia Bayle

10-07-2005, 08:04 PM	#8
PigLick Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 370	KaynanEmberwood wrote: The fact is that you get an upgrade at level 60 to your power regen line and we'll just have to wait until the next expansion for ours. I fully expect that come the next expansion there will be coercers up in arms about the lack up an upgrade when we get one Actually, that's not a fact, we don't get that upgrade at 60 anymore. So we both have to wait for the next expansion (well, next raising of the elvel cap). As far as coercer vs illusionist threads/comments, I agree that I don't like to see calling for nerfs of one or the other. However, when discussing our abilities, it is only logical that we're going to compare ourselves to one another. Enchanter is a unique class, the two subclasses are inevitably going to get compared and contrasted with one another, because there's no one else to compare and contrast with. I absolutely do not want to see Illusionists get nerfed, but I'm not going to shy away from making comparisons if I think they're valid in the fear that devs might decide to change illusionists instead of coercers, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either, nor would I ask them to do so. The devs (if they actually bother to deal with any enchanter issues) are going to look at a situation and do what they want to do based on their observations. If theydecide to nerf Illusionists instead of buffing coercers, that's just mor reason for us to band together and fight for enchanters, not blame and bicker over the subclasses. PigLick

10-07-2005, 08:37 PM	#9
KaynanEmberwood Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	PigLickJF wrote: KaynanEmberwood wrote: The fact is that you get an upgrade at level 60 to your power regen line and we'll just have to wait until the next expansion for ours. I fully expect that come the next expansion there will be coercers up in arms about the lack up an upgrade when we get one Actually, that's not a fact, we don't get that upgrade at 60 anymore. So we both have to wait for the next expansion (well, next raising of the elvel cap). You don't get Ease anymore? Wow, that sucks. Ok, I'll refrain from posting about something I obviously know nothing about (ie: coercer spells ) __________________ Kaisa 53rd Illusionist of Antonia Bayle

10-07-2005, 08:45 PM	#10
Gilbert Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 116	Yeah the best part is that bards will have higher regen rates then us at level 55. __________________ -Gilbertus 55 Retired OGRE Coercer Monolith Account Cancelled

10-08-2005, 08:05 PM	#11
Murdaben Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 69	"My only point in my previous post was that saying coercers are broken compared to Illusionists is more likely to get illusionist nerfed than coercers fixed." So sad, but so true - thats how Sony "fixes" things. Procrustes would be proud. :smileymad: And yes, I have heard that at 60, bards are preferred over coercers beause they can also buff the heck out of the tank.