Possible changes to the Illusionist haste spell

110euph · 05-29-2006, 01:25 AM

Currently, being a 1 target / concentration spell, it's not efficient enough to warrent the concentration bubble. When cast, the message says "You grant your group alacrity" or some such... but it's a single target. If it WERE a full group haste, like our clarity line is a full group buff, it would be much more attractive as one of my concentration bubbles.

Tanks parsed with haste do a very insignificant increase in DPS because the haste only effects their autoattack damage, which is already a very small portion of their total damage output. Most tank / scout DPS comes from Combat arts.

Pins · 05-29-2006, 01:27 AM

It's said that since LU13. They copied the data from the old Coercer's haste spells into ours about the casting of it. However it only hastes the people you have it cast on.

110euph · 05-29-2006, 01:38 AM

Yeah. I'm just hoping they change the effect of the spell to match the chat text. :smileywink:

Cohann · 05-29-2006, 04:48 AM

I think, it's ok to use one conc slot. But it would be better if you could cast it over the raid. There would be no need to put an illu in a melee group. Casters have more use of momentary sentiment than meeles do.And I think haste adds more dps than synergism does when you caste it on a scout. It is no surprise, that a raid tank that uses a 1-h weapon and shield does not do much dmg in auto attack. A scout with procs on his weapons and poison does lots of dmg in auto attack.

Belizarius · 05-29-2006, 05:24 AM

Bards, Crusaders may get more benefit from Synergism than Haste as they actually use quite a few 'Spells', other Fighters/Scouts don't, really.

To be honest, when buffing my group these days it feels like I am trying to choose the least useless buff, than the most useful one. None of them seem terribly impressive now, if you parse the actual damage increase.

110euph · 05-29-2006, 06:18 AM

Best DPS I've found is to buff myself and my pet with Dynamism, even in a raid situation. we both cast so incredibly fast that we get the best chance for procs, and procing 500 damage every 5th spell is much better than giving one tank a 42% increase in his autoattack damage, especially when most of my spells have incredibly fast casting times, made even faster by the Agility line of AAs. Chronomotion is a beautiful thing.

enc · 05-29-2006, 07:49 AM

same here. I'm casting my pet even in raid situations. It adds more dps than my buffs would

Pins · 05-29-2006, 08:30 PM

Haste adds the most DPS for our buffs. Synergism is so far behind. I always cast Rapidity first, then with open spots I toss Synergism on the Sorcerors. Your pet may do some decent DPS, but if there's any AoEs on the mob, it becomes a lot of extra work to keep it up, when you could just keep Rapidity+Synergism up on people. Of course, before the proc change, I would have agreed with you, but after, it's best not to cast Synergism on yourself, other enchanters, your pet, or bards.

Effie · 05-29-2006, 09:07 PM

we both cast so incredibly fast that we get the best chance for procs

Fast casting spells have less chance to proc.

I believe it's normalised from a 3.0 second cast.

Pins · 05-29-2006, 10:56 PM

Effie wrote:

we both cast so incredibly fast that we get the best chance for procs

Fast casting spells have less chance to proc.

I believe it's normalised from a 3.0 second cast.

2.5s cast + 0.5s cooldown. At least, that was what troubador's data on test before the change was showing, which would make sense.

Manyak · 05-30-2006, 01:55 AM

i did a few tests, and it seems that haste on ur pet is better than synergism, unless ur jousting it

Valanthe · 06-11-2006, 04:28 AM

Double post, sorry

Message Edited by Zakman86 on 06-11-2006 11:29 AM

Valanthe · 06-11-2006, 04:28 AM

Cohann wrote:
I think, it's ok to use one conc slot. But it would be better if you could cast it over the raid. There would be no need to put an illu in a melee group. Casters have more use of momentary sentiment than meeles do.

And I think haste adds more dps than synergism does when you caste it on a scout. It is no surprise, that a raid tank that uses a 1-h weapon and shield does not do much dmg in auto attack. A scout with procs on his weapons and poison does lots of dmg in auto attack.

The bolded statement is HIGHLY incorrect. Most Casters have their INT maxed while in raid anyway. It doesn't matter if you're at 515 or 615.

Melees use Momentary Sentiment for the Subjugation/Ordination stat increase to make taunts hit better. At Master I, it's like having a L70 be nearly L85 for Taunting Purposes. It ensures a good pull and makes it a lot easier to start the DPS due to the taunts NOT getting Resisted.

Message Edited by Zakman86 on 06-11-2006 11:29 AM

Manyak · 06-11-2006, 10:25 AM

increasing skills by 5 pts isnt the same as increasing ur "lvl" by 1 anymore

Valanthe · 06-12-2006, 01:00 AM

Regardless, it makes it a whole hell of a lot easier for the tank to grab the mob.

And since when does 5 not equal 1 level? Max 350, divided by 70 levels=5/level. Unless they changed that somewhere along the line...

Pins · 06-12-2006, 01:42 AM

Zakman86 wrote:

Regardless, it makes it a whole hell of a lot easier for the tank to grab the mob.

And since when does 5 not equal 1 level? Max 350, divided by 70 levels=5/level. Unless they changed that somewhere along the line...

They changed it in LU13. Skill buffs beyond the normal cap are not 5=1level, they are just 5 bonus points towards you roll(though who knows how those 5 bonus points are added and all that). As for subjugation/disruption/ordination/ministation helping a tank get aggro, eh? What are you talking about. Pure-fighters(non-crusaders) dont even have these skills so they do absolutely nothing to help them.

Valanthe · 06-12-2006, 04:35 PM

I stand corrected on the Ordination thing.

I was told that by one of my GLs who's also an Illu and took it as fact.

Though it seems odd that they'd give a buff like that to Illus when it really isn't that useful... Enh, go figure. Makes sense with what SOE does to us.

Barobra · 06-12-2006, 06:06 PM

When your burning trash mobs that dont have AE in raid situations, (and there is plenty of them) I would use the pet. I have yet to see anyone show me the benefits of haste though. I think its minimal just like synergism. I would be surprised if it added 100 DPS to a melee. But hey I could be wrong. I don't know till I test though. Synergism is defintaley hard to justify compared to our pet in alot of situations. I would say haste is our only other alternative in most situations.

Now the real problem is theres always going to be someone saying its good if you have this class or bad if you have this class. Its ALL situational, so nothing is YES YOU SHOULD ALWAYS USE THIS. Thats what makes this game interesting to me is there is always an alternate solution to a problem.

05-29-2006, 01:25 AM	#1
110euph Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Posts: 182	Currently, being a 1 target / concentration spell, it's not efficient enough to warrent the concentration bubble. When cast, the message says "You grant your group alacrity" or some such... but it's a single target. If it WERE a full group haste, like our clarity line is a full group buff, it would be much more attractive as one of my concentration bubbles. Tanks parsed with haste do a very insignificant increase in DPS because the haste only effects their autoattack damage, which is already a very small portion of their total damage output. Most tank / scout DPS comes from Combat arts. __________________ Iscani Emeraldflame Chancellor of Antonicas Nameless Resident geek

05-29-2006, 01:27 AM	#2
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	It's said that since LU13. They copied the data from the old Coercer's haste spells into ours about the casting of it. However it only hastes the people you have it cast on. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

05-29-2006, 01:38 AM	#3
110euph Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Posts: 182	Yeah. I'm just hoping they change the effect of the spell to match the chat text. :smileywink: __________________ Iscani Emeraldflame Chancellor of Antonicas Nameless Resident geek

05-29-2006, 04:48 AM	#4
Cohann Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	I think, it's ok to use one conc slot. But it would be better if you could cast it over the raid. There would be no need to put an illu in a melee group. Casters have more use of momentary sentiment than meeles do.And I think haste adds more dps than synergism does when you caste it on a scout. It is no surprise, that a raid tank that uses a 1-h weapon and shield does not do much dmg in auto attack. A scout with procs on his weapons and poison does lots of dmg in auto attack. __________________ "we lack the motion to move to the new beat"

05-29-2006, 06:18 AM	#6
110euph Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Posts: 182	Best DPS I've found is to buff myself and my pet with Dynamism, even in a raid situation. we both cast so incredibly fast that we get the best chance for procs, and procing 500 damage every 5th spell is much better than giving one tank a 42% increase in his autoattack damage, especially when most of my spells have incredibly fast casting times, made even faster by the Agility line of AAs. Chronomotion is a beautiful thing. __________________ Iscani Emeraldflame Chancellor of Antonicas Nameless Resident geek

05-29-2006, 05:24 AM	#5
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	Bards, Crusaders may get more benefit from Synergism than Haste as they actually use quite a few 'Spells', other Fighters/Scouts don't, really. To be honest, when buffing my group these days it feels like I am trying to choose the least useless buff, than the most useful one. None of them seem terribly impressive now, if you parse the actual damage increase.

05-29-2006, 07:49 AM	#7
enc Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	same here. I'm casting my pet even in raid situations. It adds more dps than my buffs would

05-29-2006, 08:30 PM	#8
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Haste adds the most DPS for our buffs. Synergism is so far behind. I always cast Rapidity first, then with open spots I toss Synergism on the Sorcerors. Your pet may do some decent DPS, but if there's any AoEs on the mob, it becomes a lot of extra work to keep it up, when you could just keep Rapidity+Synergism up on people. Of course, before the proc change, I would have agreed with you, but after, it's best not to cast Synergism on yourself, other enchanters, your pet, or bards. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

05-29-2006, 09:07 PM	#9
Effie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 933	we both cast so incredibly fast that we get the best chance for procs Fast casting spells have less chance to proc. I believe it's normalised from a 3.0 second cast.

05-29-2006, 10:56 PM	#10
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Effie wrote: we both cast so incredibly fast that we get the best chance for procs Fast casting spells have less chance to proc. I believe it's normalised from a 3.0 second cast. 2.5s cast + 0.5s cooldown. At least, that was what troubador's data on test before the change was showing, which would make sense. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

05-30-2006, 01:55 AM	#11
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	i did a few tests, and it seems that haste on ur pet is better than synergism, unless ur jousting it __________________

06-11-2006, 04:28 AM	#12
Valanthe Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Andersen AFB, Guam Posts: 187	Double post, sorry Message Edited by Zakman86 on 06-11-2006 11:29 AM

06-11-2006, 04:28 AM	#13
Valanthe Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Andersen AFB, Guam Posts: 187	Cohann wrote: I think, it's ok to use one conc slot. But it would be better if you could cast it over the raid. There would be no need to put an illu in a melee group. Casters have more use of momentary sentiment than meeles do. And I think haste adds more dps than synergism does when you caste it on a scout. It is no surprise, that a raid tank that uses a 1-h weapon and shield does not do much dmg in auto attack. A scout with procs on his weapons and poison does lots of dmg in auto attack. The bolded statement is HIGHLY incorrect. Most Casters have their INT maxed while in raid anyway. It doesn't matter if you're at 515 or 615. Melees use Momentary Sentiment for the Subjugation/Ordination stat increase to make taunts hit better. At Master I, it's like having a L70 be nearly L85 for Taunting Purposes. It ensures a good pull and makes it a lot easier to start the DPS due to the taunts NOT getting Resisted. Message Edited by Zakman86 on 06-11-2006 11:29 AM

06-11-2006, 10:25 AM	#14
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	increasing skills by 5 pts isnt the same as increasing ur "lvl" by 1 anymore __________________

06-12-2006, 01:00 AM	#15
Valanthe Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Andersen AFB, Guam Posts: 187	Regardless, it makes it a whole hell of a lot easier for the tank to grab the mob. And since when does 5 not equal 1 level? Max 350, divided by 70 levels=5/level. Unless they changed that somewhere along the line...

06-12-2006, 01:42 AM	#16
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Zakman86 wrote: Regardless, it makes it a whole hell of a lot easier for the tank to grab the mob. And since when does 5 not equal 1 level? Max 350, divided by 70 levels=5/level. Unless they changed that somewhere along the line... They changed it in LU13. Skill buffs beyond the normal cap are not 5=1level, they are just 5 bonus points towards you roll(though who knows how those 5 bonus points are added and all that). As for subjugation/disruption/ordination/ministation helping a tank get aggro, eh? What are you talking about. Pure-fighters(non-crusaders) dont even have these skills so they do absolutely nothing to help them. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

06-12-2006, 04:35 PM	#17
Valanthe Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Andersen AFB, Guam Posts: 187	I stand corrected on the Ordination thing. I was told that by one of my GLs who's also an Illu and took it as fact. Though it seems odd that they'd give a buff like that to Illus when it really isn't that useful... Enh, go figure. Makes sense with what SOE does to us.

06-12-2006, 06:06 PM	#18
Barobra Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 560	When your burning trash mobs that dont have AE in raid situations, (and there is plenty of them) I would use the pet. I have yet to see anyone show me the benefits of haste though. I think its minimal just like synergism. I would be surprised if it added 100 DPS to a melee. But hey I could be wrong. I don't know till I test though. Synergism is defintaley hard to justify compared to our pet in alot of situations. I would say haste is our only other alternative in most situations. Now the real problem is theres always going to be someone saying its good if you have this class or bad if you have this class. Its ALL situational, so nothing is YES YOU SHOULD ALWAYS USE THIS. Thats what makes this game interesting to me is there is always an alternate solution to a problem.