Proposed proc changes, bye bye Illusionist DPS

Belizarius · 02-16-2006, 04:16 AM

Beta Update Notes : February 14, 2006 2/14/2005 8:15 pm*** Combat ***- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack.

from the thread on New Proc Information

As far as I can see, our ability to do significant DPS by grouping with multi attack CA melee types will be obliterated.

They were actually targetting Rangers, but it will be yet another nerf to Illusionists.

If you care about this, speak up in the appropriate places

WAPCE · 02-16-2006, 04:28 AM

I already posted in another thread in response to Moorguard, and to tell you the truth, I agree with the change, with the reasoning that it's how it should have worked from the beginning based on the spell description of the Prismatic line. That being said, a loss is still a loss, and it's not like we're out-DPS'ing many classes as it is now.

Belizarius · 02-16-2006, 04:50 AM

I agree that the way it worked was probably a bug.

The problem is, that a number of Illusionists have been reasonably happy with their DPS largely because of this feature.

Once it goes, our contribution to raids is really going to suck once again. We probably won't be getting anything in compensation either.

Nupr · 02-16-2006, 06:13 AM

Belizarius is exactly right. I was willing to deal with the lame prismatic line purely because it had it's glory moments. With this change it will largely be a waste, requiring me to have a non-jousting melee DPS in my raid group just so I can do a significant portion of my damage. Heaven forbid if my melee dps gets wiped out by a poorly timed AOE or the person I cast it on needs to go afk or decides he just going to plink a few ranged attacks instead of charging in. Even my favorite little brigands aren't going to be immune to AoE with whatever they're doing to Amazing Reflexes and can still fall into the same problems.

This spell is completely [Removed for Content] and needs to be reevaluated, and I don't mean over the course of the next 6-12 months like our last evaluation.

Barobra · 02-16-2006, 07:07 AM

My question is will this really hinder our DPS? Whats the recast on prismatic.... I know alot of melee classes that probably cast 10 different combat arts in a small amount of time?

Impetus · 02-16-2006, 07:20 AM

Right, but no more using the multi-attack "bug" to get 8 or more procs from each cast of prismatic. If we're stuck with 3 procs per cast, that takes away a decent chunk of DPS.

Barobra · 02-16-2006, 07:58 AM

Without the multi-attack bug I still do decent raid dps compared to others in a raid.

KaltenAlTh · 02-16-2006, 08:26 AM

Think we all knew this was coming. I've hit 4000'ish dps using this. I considered it a game design flaw or perhaps even a bug. It was certainly not intended to work that way in my opinion.

This does not bother me to much I can get to 500+dps fairly regularty on epic fights without using the prismactic havoc chains. That puts me fairly solidly in Teir3 dps.

What really drives me insane about this class still is our lack of "utilty" or CC on raids and the fact that he game is just plain not designed to need CC for nearly all content.

Tuleri · 02-16-2006, 09:15 AM

Thank gooodness they took away this GAME BREAKING attack.

/sarcasm off

While people may say this was a bug or whatever...I found it FUN to work with a zerker or bruiser to coordinate procs. I had a few in my guild who we would have it down to a science...put 2 bruisers in our group and we would really be rolling. This even took my mind off the fact that we really suck overall on raids.

But now this too is gone, and reality will have to set again in that illusionists are BORING to raid with. I guess the good thing is the Sopranos start in March, so I can now raid, autofollow, and not miss an episode.

trenor · 02-16-2006, 10:58 AM

Well since my raid grp never has a tank in it doesnt bother me in the least.

Fiz

Xalibur · 02-16-2006, 11:04 AM

Illusionist changes:- Personae requires a 10 second casting time as with other permanent pet summons.

well, whats about conc slot requirements to be in line with other summons ?

Nephretiti · 02-16-2006, 11:06 AM

I wonder what the recast time is for other 'pet' classes - as we are now thought to be...

Moon Beam · 02-16-2006, 11:19 AM

So we're now officially a pet class? LAME!!!

I never liked the personae, now I hate her. If she wasn't so hot I'd probably kill her. Hehe.

Kestra

Blackburrow

Nephretiti · 02-16-2006, 11:30 AM

They are hugely ignored in PvP right now - amazing actually - they are screwing with targets a lot...

zit · 02-16-2006, 08:00 PM

Nephretiti wrote:
I wonder what the recast time is for other 'pet' classes - as we are now thought to be...

0 seconds. :smileysurprised:

Pra · 02-16-2006, 10:15 PM

Time to roll up my warlock I guess :/I agree prismatic wasn't as intended, but it was one of the few amusing things I could do. It wasn't overpowering, as a warlock could beat me everytime in AE damage, w/out having to have great coordination with his melee friends.PSAnd the pet thing is annoying. I get a pet or I get buffs. The recast time is hideous.

Message Edited by Praxi on 02-16-200609:16 AM

Nephretiti · 02-17-2006, 02:23 AM

You sure about that? Because we still have to wait a minute before summoning a new pet - if they are going to screw us over with this increased timer - the LEAST they should do is remove the recast timer for us.

Manyak · 02-17-2006, 04:46 AM

you'd think so right?

MrDiz · 02-17-2006, 03:12 PM

Goddamit I loved grouping with a berzeker because of that!

02-16-2006, 04:28 AM	#2
WAPCE Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 774	I already posted in another thread in response to Moorguard, and to tell you the truth, I agree with the change, with the reasoning that it's how it should have worked from the beginning based on the spell description of the Prismatic line. That being said, a loss is still a loss, and it's not like we're out-DPS'ing many classes as it is now. __________________ Adblock Plus (with EasyList x3) Flashblock

02-16-2006, 06:13 AM	#4
Nupr General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 69	Belizarius is exactly right. I was willing to deal with the lame prismatic line purely because it had it's glory moments. With this change it will largely be a waste, requiring me to have a non-jousting melee DPS in my raid group just so I can do a significant portion of my damage. Heaven forbid if my melee dps gets wiped out by a poorly timed AOE or the person I cast it on needs to go afk or decides he just going to plink a few ranged attacks instead of charging in. Even my favorite little brigands aren't going to be immune to AoE with whatever they're doing to Amazing Reflexes and can still fall into the same problems. This spell is completely [Removed for Content] and needs to be reevaluated, and I don't mean over the course of the next 6-12 months like our last evaluation. __________________ Nupren Survivors

02-16-2006, 07:20 AM	#6
Impetus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 340	Right, but no more using the multi-attack "bug" to get 8 or more procs from each cast of prismatic. If we're stuck with 3 procs per cast, that takes away a decent chunk of DPS. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------ Aylowan, 70 Illusionist, Blackburrow

02-16-2006, 08:26 AM	#8
KaltenAlTh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 133	Think we all knew this was coming. I've hit 4000'ish dps using this. I considered it a game design flaw or perhaps even a bug. It was certainly not intended to work that way in my opinion. This does not bother me to much I can get to 500+dps fairly regularty on epic fights without using the prismactic havoc chains. That puts me fairly solidly in Teir3 dps. What really drives me insane about this class still is our lack of "utilty" or CC on raids and the fact that he game is just plain not designed to need CC for nearly all content. __________________ __________________________________________________ _________________ Kaltene Al'Thor - 70 Illusionists Permafrost A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "This fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."

02-16-2006, 09:15 AM	#9
Tuleri Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 144	Thank gooodness they took away this GAME BREAKING attack. /sarcasm off While people may say this was a bug or whatever...I found it FUN to work with a zerker or bruiser to coordinate procs. I had a few in my guild who we would have it down to a science...put 2 bruisers in our group and we would really be rolling. This even took my mind off the fact that we really suck overall on raids. But now this too is gone, and reality will have to set again in that illusionists are BORING to raid with. I guess the good thing is the Sopranos start in March, so I can now raid, autofollow, and not miss an episode. __________________ Tulerine, Illusionist Clone, Dirge FnF, AB

02-16-2006, 04:16 AM	#1
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	Beta Update Notes : February 14, 2006 2/14/2005 8:15 pm* Combat *- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. from the thread on New Proc Information As far as I can see, our ability to do significant DPS by grouping with multi attack CA melee types will be obliterated. They were actually targetting Rangers, but it will be yet another nerf to Illusionists. If you care about this, speak up in the appropriate places

02-16-2006, 04:50 AM	#3
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	I agree that the way it worked was probably a bug. The problem is, that a number of Illusionists have been reasonably happy with their DPS largely because of this feature. Once it goes, our contribution to raids is really going to suck once again. We probably won't be getting anything in compensation either.

02-16-2006, 07:07 AM	#5
Barobra Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 560	My question is will this really hinder our DPS? Whats the recast on prismatic.... I know alot of melee classes that probably cast 10 different combat arts in a small amount of time?

02-16-2006, 07:58 AM	#7
Barobra Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 560	Without the multi-attack bug I still do decent raid dps compared to others in a raid.

02-16-2006, 10:58 AM	#10
trenor Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 199	Well since my raid grp never has a tank in it doesnt bother me in the least. Fiz

02-16-2006, 11:04 AM	#11
Xalibur Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 136	Illusionist changes:- Personae requires a 10 second casting time as with other permanent pet summons. well, whats about conc slot requirements to be in line with other summons ?

02-16-2006, 11:06 AM	#12
Nephretiti Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	I wonder what the recast time is for other 'pet' classes - as we are now thought to be...

02-16-2006, 11:19 AM	#13
Moon Beam Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 9	So we're now officially a pet class? LAME!!! I never liked the personae, now I hate her. If she wasn't so hot I'd probably kill her. Hehe. Kestra Blackburrow

02-16-2006, 11:30 AM	#14
Nephretiti Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	They are hugely ignored in PvP right now - amazing actually - they are screwing with targets a lot...

02-16-2006, 08:00 PM	#15
zit General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 573	Nephretiti wrote: I wonder what the recast time is for other 'pet' classes - as we are now thought to be... 0 seconds. :smileysurprised:

02-16-2006, 10:15 PM	#16
Pra Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	Time to roll up my warlock I guess :/I agree prismatic wasn't as intended, but it was one of the few amusing things I could do. It wasn't overpowering, as a warlock could beat me everytime in AE damage, w/out having to have great coordination with his melee friends.PSAnd the pet thing is annoying. I get a pet or I get buffs. The recast time is hideous. Message Edited by Praxi on 02-16-200609:16 AM __________________ Gastaun Illusionist of the Circle of Shadows

02-17-2006, 02:23 AM	#17
Nephretiti Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	You sure about that? Because we still have to wait a minute before summoning a new pet - if they are going to screw us over with this increased timer - the LEAST they should do is remove the recast timer for us.

02-17-2006, 04:46 AM	#18
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	you'd think so right? __________________

02-17-2006, 03:12 PM	#19
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Goddamit I loved grouping with a berzeker because of that! __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )