Any hope this class will be playable again?

rhug · 03-10-2005, 12:45 AM

After the last big update previous to yesterday's robust deployment, my illusionist went from a very fun class to one that could hardly solo green con solo encounters. All my gear is orange con (few things are now yellow con but mostly orange con gear) All of my skills are adept 1 or better. I use level 30 High/Superior food & drink. I am doing everything I know to make my toon more competitive, but my toon's performance falls short of a level I would deem enjoyable or a level that seems on par with the bulk of the content in the game. I see templars with better solo ability than my 27 illusionist. And to make matters worse, I dropped 15 gold on Adept 3 Ego Shock and now feel like a complete idiot for buying it. Based on parsing my logs, I see only a miniscule improvement on damage and effect. Moving from adept 1 to adept 3 didn't matter when I get the "Target is too powerfull message", the same yellow con mob gives me the same message. So Ego Shock is apparently useless. All my master skills that I selected as training options seem to be nerfed as much as 50% for some.I have now played a templar to level 24 and got so bored with playing a healer I decided to start a berserker. Once I got the berserker to level 30 grouping became a rare occurence as Zek and EL were so underpopulated at the time and you can only hunt steppes/varsoon/stormhold sooo much. Now I'm finding out that berserkers are less desirable in higher level groups (unless you find a group that needs a tank and no guardians are available). So I started an illusionist and was really loving the class but that came to a screeching halt after the first big nerf update a couple of weeks agoi.My latest project is an assassin, but little did I know how deserted freeport is and finding/forming a group is a 1-2 hour process even during peak times. (and then it is unlikely the hunting group your were hoping for) So now I'm growing bored stiff and all 4 character slots are taken. At this point I'm just hoping to find enough entertainment value from the game to hold me over until AD&D Online comes out.Anyone else finding illusionist unplayable now? Will illusionist get more in sync and balanced with the game content at higher levels?thx.

Oghi · 03-10-2005, 01:31 AM

If you want to be a good soloist, Illusionist may be the worst possible choice. We have mage defense, priest DPS, and crowd control abilities which do you no good when hunting alone. The class is interesting to play, but anyone who wants to solo could do better picking any fighter or priest class, or a warlock if you wish to stay a mage.

Sotaudi · 03-10-2005, 01:50 AM

I have a level 27 Illusionist, and I have no problem soloing. Yes, Binding Light breaks more often than it should, but I can still finish blue and white con fights without really risking too much damage. Ego Shock, yes, does not work on lvl 27 or above, making it one less weapon to use, but that is a skill obtained 14 levels earlier, so it is to be expected to eventually go obsolete. Fascinate stops working around level 27 as well.

But, truthfully, I can still Stun and DoT hit with an HO and root. If the root breaks, I have Stupefy to hold them in place long enough to rebind them with BL once it recharges. If that fails, by the time all that has worn off, the DoTs will have just about expired, so I can use a Mez to get them off me. And since Mezzing and HOs are the next step anyway, it is not that big of a deal.

Every class has dry spells, and we hit ours, from what I can tell, at around this level. Old spells are becoming less effective, and new spells replacing them have not yet been obtained. From what everyone says, Speechless is a tremendous boost in our arsenal, which we have not obtained yet at level 27.

My biggest problem right now is finding soloable mobs in TS that are yellow or orange. Without going down into RoV, most stuff is going blue and below now, and all the stuff that is yellow or higher is also group con. They have added more solo content with this patch, so we will have to see, but in all, I still love my Illusionist's capabilities.

And regarding your Adept III purchase, remember that you can always group with a lower level character now and mentor them. This will bring you down to their level, where that Adept III Ego Shock should be quite useable.

Erasm · 03-10-2005, 02:06 AM

I have a 32 illusionist and the only class that I have seen solo a solo mob better than me was a priest. And even then it depended on what you meant by "better." Thier health never got as low as mine, but my power never got as low as thiers and I killed the same mobs at least twice as fast. This is compared to a 32 fury before the 3/8 patch ( when BL was broken). I was forced to tank every mob like they were. I have no idea if things were fixed this patch, I just moved and dont have the internet at home yet ( at work now). But if BL is fixed, I cant wait to go rip apart some red mobs.

jin · 03-11-2005, 04:33 AM

The higher your level, the more difficult it is for an illusionist to solo. Post 40 forget it as a source of xp. There are SOE executives on record saying .. In EQ2, if you can hit the mob, the mob can hit you.... meaning that kiting, root and nuke, and other EQ1 sources of caster solo xp are out. Considering this, mage class are at more of a disadvantage than other classes due to low ac and defensive abilities. Enchanters are the least of the mage class when it comes to soloing. It is possible to solo in the early stages of the game strictly because the mobs are so lame.

RadricTyc · 03-11-2005, 08:51 PM

While I am not a very high level illusionist (25), I am having a blast playing one. And I can solo, it just takes a while. Certainly non-heroic mobs that are white con our less seem to be no problem. I can see how at the higher levels this could be more problematic (I also have a 42 monk) but I am not sure that an illusionist is a real soloer anyway. It's possible yes, but we are much more useful while fighting orange ^^ mobs in a group and raking in the exp.

As far as your comments about berserkers, I just cannot agree there. Berserkers are probably the best tank for leveling up to 50. Guardians are good, but berserkers are only ever so slightly worse with MUCH larger area DPS. This makes them very valuable for powering through large groups of mobs and also very good at holding aggro. I would take a Berserker over a Guardian in an EXP group if they were the same level. The only thing the berserker lacks are some defense buffs, but if you have a couple of healers, or one really good healer, there should never be a problem with his defense. You could also throw in a bard for good measure to make them even more tankable. In my mind the damage you don't take because the mobs died early is better than hoping you avoid damage in a longer fight. DPS shouldn't be underestimated.

As far as Healers go, I think they also are very interesting to play. I have a 35 Inquisitor that I play fairly often and have found that I am usually the main healer due to the power of my heals. The cleric heals don't have the same hate generation problems of other healers, so it makes sense that as a heavy armor wearing cleric I am in high demand for my durability and healing power. If you don't like to heal well that's your business I suppose. But having played so many classes I can say that as a healer I feel much more in control of my fate than when I am playing a mage or a tank. I know when the going gets tough that it is my actions that will keep us alive. I am not the mage who is hoping the healer can keep the tank alive.

Han · 03-11-2005, 09:02 PM

Yes soloing as an illusionist basically = not happening i leveled to 50 on app 2's and blue and green gear cause and trust me soloing like that isnt happening... Unless .. you fight mages because you drain there power and there more gimpy then you are *snicker* But as far as leveling to 50 with such junk gear/ spells well at the time there wasnt nething better i have been 50 for like 2 months or so. But even now i cant solo very well at all root in this game is a joke and the pets for get that its a pretty looking dot i think if you dont like grouping better stick to a templar lol. There best soloers in gam i have seen so far they can melee the mob and heal themself on top of that im pretty sure they have better DD then we do. But hey raids im always on those cause you need power regen basically a buff bot but hey i have fun killin dragons and stuff knowing that if i wasnt ther ethey would all die SMILEY

Hando level 50 illusionist

MsTak · 03-11-2005, 11:53 PM

I couldn't agree more that an illusionist is the worse choice for a soloist.

I love my illusionist but tend to get frustrated when I can't pick up a group cause I can't do much without someone with me.

That said, I can group with 1 other person and we can do extremely well. In EL, I regularly group with another caster (preferably conjuror with a pet) or a healer and we run up and down the bach killing solos. The exp is not AMAZING but the loot is good and the death is non-existent.

I wish, hope, pray, beg that Sony fixes the root. It should last longer and stick better. If root were working, we could solo. Until then, find a friend and be happy that your experience is cut in 1/2, but your death is cut to nothing.

Cylanth · 03-12-2005, 06:02 AM

I am surprised nobody mentioned Speechless. Its the definitive Illusionist spell, and makes soloing much easier, not to mention the awesome utility in groups. Until you get it, I wouldnt recommend anybody to solo as an illusionist. But once you have it, it will make your soloing much easier (though certainly not as easy as a pet class), and groups will love you for it - of course they also love the breeze and mezzing.

But yes, as stated by others, there are much better classes to solo with. When I see paladins and SKs soloing green and blue DUPs, and I am fighting solo encounters, yeah, I get a little envious, but hey, nothings ever going to be equal.

Enchanters were always meant to be a group oriented class. it doesnt mean you shouldnt solo, but you shouldnt have any problems ever finding a group as a chanter, and the exp is always better in a group anyway.

By no means is the class unplayable. I get nonstop tells from people when I log in asking me if I need a group. Its the most challenging class to play, but thats the part of the fun and the reason why I wouldnt play any other class.

Cylanth, 50 Illusionist, Crushbone

Erasm · 03-12-2005, 09:38 AM

Another example of how we dont suck inthe 30s as soloists.

32 Paladin tries to kill a 32 noxious assassin. Gets his rear handed to him and runs to the bell. Maybe he had bad gear. Maybe he wasnt full when he started. I dont know. All I know is he had to run... twice.

33 Assassin decides to go after it when it resets after the paladin zoned. He almsot makes it to the bell before he dies.

At 32 illusionist, I killed it with yellow hp and 75% power.

Later on:

A lvl 37 Void Watcher is blocking my way to runnyeye. I would rather not run from another caster since a few debuffs and a big cast or 2 and im dead or slowed down so all the goblins can beat me down before I get to the entrance. So I decide to try and kill it. Its red, although barely. So I kicked the crap out of it. Ended the fight with orange hp and more than 50% power.

We can solo, at least in some level ranges. In some cases much better than most other classes. But in some level ranges, we cant solo for crap. Before root got ruined, I was soloign stuff 4-6 levels higher than me with ease. Afterwards, I had issues with blues and some greens until I hit 28. Then whites were doable. It wasnt until 30 that I could solo well again.

StGabri · 03-12-2005, 02:02 PM

I made 88% on my Illusionist today (level 30->31), about half of which was solo and half of which was duo. So yes, you can solo an Illusionist in his 30's. It takes practice and a bit of thought, but it's quite possible. All the DoT's we can throw at something just rock. Get good at kiting around using roots. You might die a couple times at first, but persevere, as once you get the hang of it you'll be doing just fine.The recent upgrade in solo xps was very noticeable for me. And I'm making a ton of cash on quests and solo mob loot now.StGabe.

Reiga75 · 03-14-2005, 07:54 AM

Illusionists go solo?

..why?

We dont have any problem to get a group(except there's just very few people in zones)

-------------

Reiga

50 Highelf Illusionist

Qeynos, Guk

Message Edited by Reiga75 on 03-13-2005 06:56 PM

Erasm · 03-14-2005, 08:11 AM

Reiga75 wrote:

Illusionists go solo?

..why?

We dont have any problem to get a group(except there's just very few people in zones)

-------------

Reiga

50 Highelf Illusionist

Qeynos, Guk

Message Edited by Reiga75 on 03-13-200506:56 PM

Time constraints, frequent real life interference, tired of the regular grind, cash ( solo from t4 is better cash than group ), quests, odd playing times, personal preferance, just to name a few SMILEY

zit · 03-14-2005, 04:42 PM

In the early 30th lvl soloing is not bad as you just got a nice dps boost with 2 new dots and construct of logic.

But you will not get any spells that increase your dmg for a long time afterwards and the boost never will be that high again. Thus your soloabilities will decrease with each lvl.

You still *can* solo. You just kill so slow thats it not worth the time and effort. The more hp the mobs have the longer it will take you to kill it and the higher will be the risk that you get a resist in a bad moment....

03-10-2005, 01:31 AM	#2
Oghi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 331	If you want to be a good soloist, Illusionist may be the worst possible choice. We have mage defense, priest DPS, and crowd control abilities which do you no good when hunting alone. The class is interesting to play, but anyone who wants to solo could do better picking any fighter or priest class, or a warlock if you wish to stay a mage. __________________ Oghier Sleepytoes, Dwarf Bartender Aramur, Illusionist Arcane Masters, Antonia Bayle

03-10-2005, 01:50 AM	#3
Sotaudi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 271	I have a level 27 Illusionist, and I have no problem soloing. Yes, Binding Light breaks more often than it should, but I can still finish blue and white con fights without really risking too much damage. Ego Shock, yes, does not work on lvl 27 or above, making it one less weapon to use, but that is a skill obtained 14 levels earlier, so it is to be expected to eventually go obsolete. Fascinate stops working around level 27 as well. But, truthfully, I can still Stun and DoT hit with an HO and root. If the root breaks, I have Stupefy to hold them in place long enough to rebind them with BL once it recharges. If that fails, by the time all that has worn off, the DoTs will have just about expired, so I can use a Mez to get them off me. And since Mezzing and HOs are the next step anyway, it is not that big of a deal. Every class has dry spells, and we hit ours, from what I can tell, at around this level. Old spells are becoming less effective, and new spells replacing them have not yet been obtained. From what everyone says, Speechless is a tremendous boost in our arsenal, which we have not obtained yet at level 27. My biggest problem right now is finding soloable mobs in TS that are yellow or orange. Without going down into RoV, most stuff is going blue and below now, and all the stuff that is yellow or higher is also group con. They have added more solo content with this patch, so we will have to see, but in all, I still love my Illusionist's capabilities. And regarding your Adept III purchase, remember that you can always group with a lower level character now and mentor them. This will bring you down to their level, where that Adept III Ego Shock should be quite useable. __________________ Sotaudi - Wood Elf - Ranger Quaroon - Erudite - Illusionist Siegur - Kerra - Monk Breven - Froglok - Fury Voxin - Ratonga - Assassin

03-11-2005, 09:02 PM	#7
Han Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	Yes soloing as an illusionist basically = not happening i leveled to 50 on app 2's and blue and green gear cause and trust me soloing like that isnt happening... Unless .. you fight mages because you drain there power and there more gimpy then you are snicker But as far as leveling to 50 with such junk gear/ spells well at the time there wasnt nething better i have been 50 for like 2 months or so. But even now i cant solo very well at all root in this game is a joke and the pets for get that its a pretty looking dot i think if you dont like grouping better stick to a templar lol. There best soloers in gam i have seen so far they can melee the mob and heal themself on top of that im pretty sure they have better DD then we do. But hey raids im always on those cause you need power regen basically a buff bot but hey i have fun killin dragons and stuff knowing that if i wasnt ther ethey would all die Hando level 50 illusionist

03-14-2005, 08:11 AM	#13
Erasm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 246	Reiga75 wrote: Illusionists go solo? ..why? We dont have any problem to get a group(except there's just very few people in zones) ------------- Reiga 50 Highelf Illusionist Qeynos, Guk Message Edited by Reiga75 on 03-13-200506:56 PM Time constraints, frequent real life interference, tired of the regular grind, cash ( solo from t4 is better cash than group ), quests, odd playing times, personal preferance, just to name a few

03-10-2005, 12:45 AM	#1
rhug Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	After the last big update previous to yesterday's robust deployment, my illusionist went from a very fun class to one that could hardly solo green con solo encounters. All my gear is orange con (few things are now yellow con but mostly orange con gear) All of my skills are adept 1 or better. I use level 30 High/Superior food & drink. I am doing everything I know to make my toon more competitive, but my toon's performance falls short of a level I would deem enjoyable or a level that seems on par with the bulk of the content in the game. I see templars with better solo ability than my 27 illusionist. And to make matters worse, I dropped 15 gold on Adept 3 Ego Shock and now feel like a complete idiot for buying it. Based on parsing my logs, I see only a miniscule improvement on damage and effect. Moving from adept 1 to adept 3 didn't matter when I get the "Target is too powerfull message", the same yellow con mob gives me the same message. So Ego Shock is apparently useless. All my master skills that I selected as training options seem to be nerfed as much as 50% for some.I have now played a templar to level 24 and got so bored with playing a healer I decided to start a berserker. Once I got the berserker to level 30 grouping became a rare occurence as Zek and EL were so underpopulated at the time and you can only hunt steppes/varsoon/stormhold sooo much. Now I'm finding out that berserkers are less desirable in higher level groups (unless you find a group that needs a tank and no guardians are available). So I started an illusionist and was really loving the class but that came to a screeching halt after the first big nerf update a couple of weeks agoi.My latest project is an assassin, but little did I know how deserted freeport is and finding/forming a group is a 1-2 hour process even during peak times. (and then it is unlikely the hunting group your were hoping for) So now I'm growing bored stiff and all 4 character slots are taken. At this point I'm just hoping to find enough entertainment value from the game to hold me over until AD&D Online comes out.Anyone else finding illusionist unplayable now? Will illusionist get more in sync and balanced with the game content at higher levels?thx.

03-10-2005, 02:06 AM	#4
Erasm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 246	I have a 32 illusionist and the only class that I have seen solo a solo mob better than me was a priest. And even then it depended on what you meant by "better." Thier health never got as low as mine, but my power never got as low as thiers and I killed the same mobs at least twice as fast. This is compared to a 32 fury before the 3/8 patch ( when BL was broken). I was forced to tank every mob like they were. I have no idea if things were fixed this patch, I just moved and dont have the internet at home yet ( at work now). But if BL is fixed, I cant wait to go rip apart some red mobs.

03-11-2005, 04:33 AM	#5
jin Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32	The higher your level, the more difficult it is for an illusionist to solo. Post 40 forget it as a source of xp. There are SOE executives on record saying .. In EQ2, if you can hit the mob, the mob can hit you.... meaning that kiting, root and nuke, and other EQ1 sources of caster solo xp are out. Considering this, mage class are at more of a disadvantage than other classes due to low ac and defensive abilities. Enchanters are the least of the mage class when it comes to soloing. It is possible to solo in the early stages of the game strictly because the mobs are so lame.

03-11-2005, 08:51 PM	#6
RadricTyc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	While I am not a very high level illusionist (25), I am having a blast playing one. And I can solo, it just takes a while. Certainly non-heroic mobs that are white con our less seem to be no problem. I can see how at the higher levels this could be more problematic (I also have a 42 monk) but I am not sure that an illusionist is a real soloer anyway. It's possible yes, but we are much more useful while fighting orange ^^ mobs in a group and raking in the exp. As far as your comments about berserkers, I just cannot agree there. Berserkers are probably the best tank for leveling up to 50. Guardians are good, but berserkers are only ever so slightly worse with MUCH larger area DPS. This makes them very valuable for powering through large groups of mobs and also very good at holding aggro. I would take a Berserker over a Guardian in an EXP group if they were the same level. The only thing the berserker lacks are some defense buffs, but if you have a couple of healers, or one really good healer, there should never be a problem with his defense. You could also throw in a bard for good measure to make them even more tankable. In my mind the damage you don't take because the mobs died early is better than hoping you avoid damage in a longer fight. DPS shouldn't be underestimated. As far as Healers go, I think they also are very interesting to play. I have a 35 Inquisitor that I play fairly often and have found that I am usually the main healer due to the power of my heals. The cleric heals don't have the same hate generation problems of other healers, so it makes sense that as a heavy armor wearing cleric I am in high demand for my durability and healing power. If you don't like to heal well that's your business I suppose. But having played so many classes I can say that as a healer I feel much more in control of my fate than when I am playing a mage or a tank. I know when the going gets tough that it is my actions that will keep us alive. I am not the mage who is hoping the healer can keep the tank alive.

03-11-2005, 11:53 PM	#8
MsTak Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	I couldn't agree more that an illusionist is the worse choice for a soloist. I love my illusionist but tend to get frustrated when I can't pick up a group cause I can't do much without someone with me. That said, I can group with 1 other person and we can do extremely well. In EL, I regularly group with another caster (preferably conjuror with a pet) or a healer and we run up and down the bach killing solos. The exp is not AMAZING but the loot is good and the death is non-existent. I wish, hope, pray, beg that Sony fixes the root. It should last longer and stick better. If root were working, we could solo. Until then, find a friend and be happy that your experience is cut in 1/2, but your death is cut to nothing.

03-12-2005, 06:02 AM	#9
Cylanth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 68	I am surprised nobody mentioned Speechless. Its the definitive Illusionist spell, and makes soloing much easier, not to mention the awesome utility in groups. Until you get it, I wouldnt recommend anybody to solo as an illusionist. But once you have it, it will make your soloing much easier (though certainly not as easy as a pet class), and groups will love you for it - of course they also love the breeze and mezzing. But yes, as stated by others, there are much better classes to solo with. When I see paladins and SKs soloing green and blue DUPs, and I am fighting solo encounters, yeah, I get a little envious, but hey, nothings ever going to be equal. Enchanters were always meant to be a group oriented class. it doesnt mean you shouldnt solo, but you shouldnt have any problems ever finding a group as a chanter, and the exp is always better in a group anyway. By no means is the class unplayable. I get nonstop tells from people when I log in asking me if I need a group. Its the most challenging class to play, but thats the part of the fun and the reason why I wouldnt play any other class. Cylanth, 50 Illusionist, Crushbone

03-12-2005, 09:38 AM	#10
Erasm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 246	Another example of how we dont suck inthe 30s as soloists. 32 Paladin tries to kill a 32 noxious assassin. Gets his rear handed to him and runs to the bell. Maybe he had bad gear. Maybe he wasnt full when he started. I dont know. All I know is he had to run... twice. 33 Assassin decides to go after it when it resets after the paladin zoned. He almsot makes it to the bell before he dies. At 32 illusionist, I killed it with yellow hp and 75% power. Later on: A lvl 37 Void Watcher is blocking my way to runnyeye. I would rather not run from another caster since a few debuffs and a big cast or 2 and im dead or slowed down so all the goblins can beat me down before I get to the entrance. So I decide to try and kill it. Its red, although barely. So I kicked the crap out of it. Ended the fight with orange hp and more than 50% power. We can solo, at least in some level ranges. In some cases much better than most other classes. But in some level ranges, we cant solo for crap. Before root got ruined, I was soloign stuff 4-6 levels higher than me with ease. Afterwards, I had issues with blues and some greens until I hit 28. Then whites were doable. It wasnt until 30 that I could solo well again.

03-12-2005, 02:02 PM	#11
StGabri Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	I made 88% on my Illusionist today (level 30->31), about half of which was solo and half of which was duo. So yes, you can solo an Illusionist in his 30's. It takes practice and a bit of thought, but it's quite possible. All the DoT's we can throw at something just rock. Get good at kiting around using roots. You might die a couple times at first, but persevere, as once you get the hang of it you'll be doing just fine.The recent upgrade in solo xps was very noticeable for me. And I'm making a ton of cash on quests and solo mob loot now.StGabe.

03-14-2005, 07:54 AM	#12
Reiga75 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7	Illusionists go solo? ..why? We dont have any problem to get a group(except there's just very few people in zones) ------------- Reiga 50 Highelf Illusionist Qeynos, Guk Message Edited by Reiga75 on 03-13-2005 06:56 PM

03-14-2005, 04:42 PM	#14
zit General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 573	In the early 30th lvl soloing is not bad as you just got a nice dps boost with 2 new dots and construct of logic. But you will not get any spells that increase your dmg for a long time afterwards and the boost never will be that high again. Thus your soloabilities will decrease with each lvl. You still can solo. You just kill so slow thats it not worth the time and effort. The more hp the mobs have the longer it will take you to kill it and the higher will be the risk that you get a resist in a bad moment....