Null Caress - Underrated/Underused?

Banshye · 07-29-2006, 03:19 PM

Null Caress isn't the end-all, beat-all Warlock spell but it does have some merit. I don't see Warlocks use it much and when I mention it in PU groups, people usually say "huh?" The description on Ten Ton Hammer reads, "Teleports nearby targets, up to six, to a random location nearby and stuns them briefly. Also decreases movement speed drastically on the affected targets". It actually disorients the critters for 10 seconds and slows their movement by 75% - it also decreases Warlock hate significantly. Is anyone else using this with success? I'm judicious about its usage because I realize tanks don't like to spin in circles saying "where'd my target go" - but there are times that the tank is having difficulty getting aggro off the healer or when we'll get bumrushed by mobs and a 10.0 pause to gain orientation has actually saved a wipe. Is anyone else using this spell with success? What are your experiences with it? One question I do have - I've always used this spell very judicially and thus I don't know the answer - if you Null Caress an encounter into other mobs not yet pulled and not yet in the encounter, will it pull them as well?

Message Edited by Banshye on 07-29-2006 07:21 AM

Solan Swiftfist · 07-29-2006, 03:43 PM

I don't use it because they made the mobs way to social in the KOS expansion.

Pilgrim Divine · 07-29-2006, 03:55 PM

i sometimes use it soloing if both my roots have failed/broken and they are about to beat down on me, gives me time to reroot, occasionally a life saver, annoying when it teleports them on top of you tho, lol. Very very rarely in grps unless i have got aggro and have very little health left & zero danger of attracting new mobs.

Araxes · 07-29-2006, 08:27 PM

I use it in 4 situations : - 2 or more [hard hitting] mobs are on me- we have pulled more than 2 heroic encounters down on us (i.e. 2 or more adds)- the tank or healer (only if we have one healer) is about to die- I am about to dieI'll use it in those situations regardless of what else is around us. I haven't particularly noticed that it draws other encounters via social BUT it IS an AoE spell so you have to be careful that there aren't other encounters within its range when you cast it.

Message Edited by Vicontessa on 07-29-2006 09:28 AM

Xede · 07-29-2006, 09:34 PM

the spell sucks...the deaggro is pretty much useless on it

Zors · 07-30-2006, 02:11 PM

I agree with OP and would like to think that I've saved groups I was in with this spell. Now, I don't mind a tough fight and won't cast it every time we get adds, but it's not hard to spot when it's going south. I usually target an encounter the MT is not targetting, hit Null Caress and root. It gives you a 10 second breather and atleast one encounter is out of the equation for a bit longer.

Tanatus · 07-30-2006, 08:54 PM

The only time I use it - raids then I use in conjuction with next combo

FHSed Apocal - Vuliian - Null Caress

matinisback · 07-31-2006, 01:59 PM

i use just for add's and when tank need's the mob away

Marlow · 08-01-2006, 12:58 AM

Patrix513 wrote:

the spell sucks...the deaggro is pretty much useless on it

I will whole-heartedly disagree with this poster.

pharacyde · 08-01-2006, 01:11 AM

I use it alot in PVP SMILEY

Good to be able to force the opponents to get the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lost of my back. Pitty it's still broken in PVP, since after Teleportation the players are granted immunity for some weird reason.

Xede · 08-01-2006, 01:15 AM

Marlow wrote:

Patrix513 wrote:

the spell sucks...the deaggro is pretty much useless on it

I will whole-heartedly disagree with this poster.

please state why? hell here's a screenshot of the spell at M1...also keep in mine i have the reduced power cost AA so it may cost more power for some of you.

maybe if the decreased threat was more it might be worth it....also teleporting mobs is actually kind of lame especially if you get aggro and the tank is trying to get the mob back onto them....maybe if it had the deaggro of concussion which is 1470-2450 deaggro it might be useful...but anything less than 1k is pathetic...just like vulian nullification is useless.

pharacyde · 08-01-2006, 01:25 AM

I can see it's less usefull in PVE, but in PVP it's an out of encounter Detarget, which pretty much rocks.

Lurch72 · 08-01-2006, 03:45 AM

It's good stuff for dueling melee classes. If I had a plat for every time I heard "Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] did I get teleported and rooted?" I'd be even richer.

On raids, I am with Xede. It's next to useless, and maybe even harmful, depending on the encounter and the reaction your raid might have to seeing adds port/disappear.

Message Edited by Lurch72 on 07-31-2006 04:58 PM

Tanatus · 08-01-2006, 03:49 AM

Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter

Xede · 08-01-2006, 04:01 AM

Tanatus wrote:
Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter

i know its single target only...which is why it would be nice if it did that much for AE

Crono1321 · 08-01-2006, 01:08 PM

Patrix513 wrote:

Tanatus wrote:
Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter

i know its single target only...which is why it would be nice if it did that much for AE

I don't see how its useless considering its a 1 second cast with a rather large radius? Sorcerors need all the deaggro they can get, and throwing this in early on helps you not get aggro.

Xede · 08-01-2006, 02:43 PM

Crono1321 wrote:

Patrix513 wrote:

Tanatus wrote:
Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter

i know its single target only...which is why it would be nice if it did that much for AE

I don't see how its useless considering its a 1 second cast with a rather large radius? Sorcerors need all the deaggro they can get, and throwing this in early on helps you not get aggro.

why would you throw it on early? when you barely have any hate gain as it is. Maybe if you throw on apocalypse right away during AE fights and even that isnt enough to stop the mob from coming to you as you have already gained way more aggro than what the deaggro does.

As stated by a dev before 1 dmg=1 point of hate. If that holds true, both of our AE deaggros are useless and only work against 1-2 ticks of War Pyre and thats it. Unless they up it to close to 2k there is no reason to cast those spells at all, especially after you have gotten aggro as it will not reduce it enough. I have used Null Caress and Vulian Nullification after i have gotten aggro and the teleport did not work as the mobs were put right on top of me and still beat me down. If the Null Caress did as much as maybe a priests AE deaggro, the spell would rock. But with a mere 800 points of deaggro, it isnt enough. Vulian Nullification is on a short recast time so maybe if spammed every chance i can see it being kinda useful, but within the time you have already casted the spell and gotten more damage spells off you have gained more aggro than what you reduced the last time.

Felshades · 08-01-2006, 07:14 PM

xede, remember the devs also stated that deaggros arent supposed to save your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], theyre supposed to lower hate a tad so that the tank stays at the top of the hate list. they're not supposed to be an excuse to go all out and never worry about aggro. that said i can do 3k dps on a group encounter and not gain aggro off the tank and never really have issues if the tank is good and knows what hes doing. and yes i use both of these spells frequently, almost NEVER concussive. in raids its safe to use nc, as the mobs are immune to the teleport if they are epic tagged. true epic or not. edit spelling i been up for 8 hours on 2h sleep ... sue me.

Message Edited by Felshades on 08-01-2006 08:15 AM

Niun01 · 08-01-2006, 07:47 PM

Null Caress is one of my favorite spells. I call it the "[Removed for Content] the Tank off Spell", but it does come in handy.I cast it reguardless of the surroundings if I am getting beat to death, the healer is getting beat to death, or the tank has so many mobs on it from adds that it is called for. Null Caress + Boney grasp after a bad pull is a life saver at times.The deaggro part of the spell is just a lil icing on the cake, the spell is to get things back in order when it starts to go bad.We have no useless spells, just more situational then others. learn them all to the T and when and where they are to be used. It makes the difference between being just another caster and a being a true Warlock.

Xede · 08-01-2006, 08:03 PM

Felshades wrote:
xede,

remember the devs also stated that deaggros arent supposed to save your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], theyre supposed to lower hate a tad so that the tank stays at the top of the hate list. they're not supposed to be an excuse to go all out and never worry about aggro.

that said i can do 3k dps on a group encounter and not gain aggro off the tank and never really have issues if the tank is good and knows what hes doing. and yes i use both of these spells frequently, almost NEVER concussive.

in raids its safe to use nc, as the mobs are immune to the teleport if they are epic tagged. true epic or not.

edit spelling i been up for 8 hours on 2h sleep ... sue me.

Message Edited by Felshades on 08-01-2006 08:15 AM

i have teleported epics before so i do not use the spell.....unless they ninja fixed as they seem to like to do

and i never said its suppose to save my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].....the deaggro isnt enough to even want to use. If you ask any member in my guild they will agree with me that it isnt enough. Why do priests get a 2k+ deaggro that pretty much does the same thing yet ours is gimped in comparison.

i can do 3k on group encounters too if i try and in the right group setup. I dunno if you know my guild's reputation but we maximize dps/hate so the tank rarely gets aggro unless he sucks(which as of right now i have always thought he sucked) As of late i have used VN but not caress as i have teleported epic mobs before and I'm not gonna do that to the raid. 1) teleporting is [Removed for Content] 2) they should make it a pacify just like VN and then it'd be useful to use more.

Felshades · 08-01-2006, 08:29 PM

yeah guild i raided with for a while used the same setup max hate on mt/dps. kept him in the top 3 slots if possible.but i have never once teleported an epic, and i used the spell since they changed it, and as late as last night on the harla dar encounter (new server new guild to school on how to actually do stuff.. sigh).its just supposed to give the tank an edge.. i usually use these with my drake out and a dagger in mainhand so the recast isnt too bad, and use it every single time its up. either i'm just lucky or i'm somehow managing to time it with tank taunts...once i already have aggro though, FORGET IT. i'm dead dont heal me, its cheaper to rez. lol.oh edit, keep forgetting crap its early...not sure which priest deaggro you're speaking of but unless they also changed those, if i recall they were on a five minute reuse? least the bf's fury had a deaggro on five minutes.. then again i aint slept in almost 36 hours for any period longer than two hours and my brain just isnt working right now... forgive stupidity if i'm makin any ><

Message Edited by Felshades on 08-01-2006 09:31 AM

Sluglord · 08-02-2006, 06:32 PM

I'll second the assertion that in PvP, this spell is quite useful, even though it is bugged. The ability to bounce a bunch of enemies from your immediate vicinity, slow them down, and get them off your back (and generally, off your group) is not to be sneered at. I do wish they'd fix the immunity bit at the end, though it tends to surprise the enemy as much as it annoys me.

--------------------------

Carnifax, Warlock of Qeynos

Venekor

Tanatus · 08-03-2006, 06:09 AM

Well lets say ALL warlocks de-agro spells teh sucks .... but they help a little... With correct raid set up - agro never a problem hate buff from coercer + hate from dirge then de-agro from troubadur and then cross group amends from coercer ... its nearly impossible to generate enouth agro for warlock to get killed. Our de-agrp thou can be used to soften hate burst that we can generate if FHSed Apocal crit - only 2 spells good for it Null Caress and Vullian ... Concursion unfortunally dont work

pharacyde · 08-03-2006, 06:36 AM

Sluglord wrote:

I'll second the assertion that in PvP, this spell is quite useful, even though it is bugged. The ability to bounce a bunch of enemies from your immediate vicinity, slow them down, and get them off your back (and generally, off your group) is not to be sneered at. I do wish they'd fix the immunity bit at the end, though it tends to surprise the enemy as much as it annoys me.

--------------------------

Carnifax, Warlock of Qeynos

Venekor

I reported the bug to Achonix, he was going to look at it, and see what he could do. I hope for a fix myself soon.

Crono1321 · 08-03-2006, 08:49 AM

One dmg might be equal to one threat, but I do believe there is a threshold of threat amount before you move up on the hate list. Apocalypse can easily be cast on opening without getting aggro, and it does what, 4-6k damage? Our deaggros are proactive, not reactive. Yes they are not as large as they should be, but what can you do? Just use them and be cautious. This spell needs to be fixed in the fact that yes it still does teleport some non-named epics, and needs to be fixed in the matter that it sometimes doesn't move the mob at all, only leaves them right on top of you. If you're goign to have a teleport spell, just make it so they always teleport a set distance...1-20 meters is stupid, just make it 20 meters.

Ivane0 · 08-03-2006, 04:52 PM

this spell sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

teleporting epic's? iv seen it teleport them, and doing that in a raid is bad...very bad.

best chance at surviving if u get agro it run to tank and hope healers are on the ball. usualy works.

yes its easy to do tons of dps on raids especialy with troubs and the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tons of procs we have on items. but if u wana go all out from the start on a large group you most likely gona die unless you got zerker tanks. god i lover zerker tanks!

-Ivann

genesis

Tanatus · 08-04-2006, 06:37 AM

Crono FHSed crit on Apocal easy get around 12.5K+ damage per mob if your gear proc then more then that

I seen many time that FHSed Apocal crits ticed 2.5-2.8K damage on dispatched mobs

Crono1321 · 08-06-2006, 07:35 PM

Tanatus wrote:

Crono FHSed crit on Apocal easy get around 12.5K+ damage per mob if your gear proc then more then that

I seen many time that FHSed Apocal crits ticed 2.5-2.8K damage on dispatched mobs

Thank you for showing your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] once again tanatus. I woudl also like to see those numbers before a raid mob is fully deubffed...oh wait that doesn't happen.

Tanatus · 08-09-2006, 04:28 AM

Well my advice then would be

a) get right AA (max crits + max base spell damage + FHS) and right gear also dont hesistate to use portions (+4% to crits)

b) dont hesitate ask you local coercer to use his/her dispatch and call it too on top of it use maelstorm - thats -2000 to Nox

c) try replace your Adp 3 with M1 ... it helps

Thats pretty much it ....

and oh btw 2.5-2.8K that w/o brigand just with coercer debuff and w/o maxed our base damage AA

Felshades · 08-10-2006, 09:49 AM

Tanatus wrote:
Well my advice then would be

a) get right AA (max crits + max base spell damage + FHS) and right gear also dont hesistate to use portions (+4% to crits)

b) dont hesitate ask you local coercer to use his/her dispatch and call it too on top of it use maelstorm - thats -2000 to Nox

c) try replace your Adp 3 with M1 ... it helps

Thats pretty much it ....

and oh btw 2.5-2.8K that w/o brigand just with coercer debuff and w/o maxed our base damage AA

uhm.... coercer does not have dispatch.. thats brigand yer thinking.i have gotten apoc to crit for up to 3200 a tick and it ends up with me dead, but i still think you bought your warlock.. either that or are really really stupid./agree with previous poster in either this thread or another i was lookin in about this guy.

07-29-2006, 03:19 PM	#1
Banshye Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 82	Null Caress isn't the end-all, beat-all Warlock spell but it does have some merit. I don't see Warlocks use it much and when I mention it in PU groups, people usually say "huh?" The description on Ten Ton Hammer reads, "Teleports nearby targets, up to six, to a random location nearby and stuns them briefly. Also decreases movement speed drastically on the affected targets". It actually disorients the critters for 10 seconds and slows their movement by 75% - it also decreases Warlock hate significantly. Is anyone else using this with success? I'm judicious about its usage because I realize tanks don't like to spin in circles saying "where'd my target go" - but there are times that the tank is having difficulty getting aggro off the healer or when we'll get bumrushed by mobs and a 10.0 pause to gain orientation has actually saved a wipe. Is anyone else using this spell with success? What are your experiences with it? One question I do have - I've always used this spell very judicially and thus I don't know the answer - if you Null Caress an encounter into other mobs not yet pulled and not yet in the encounter, will it pull them as well? Message Edited by Banshye on 07-29-2006 07:21 AM __________________ Banshye 70 Wizard, Najena May the parse be with you...

07-29-2006, 08:27 PM	#4
Araxes Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 992	I use it in 4 situations : - 2 or more [hard hitting] mobs are on me- we have pulled more than 2 heroic encounters down on us (i.e. 2 or more adds)- the tank or healer (only if we have one healer) is about to die- I am about to dieI'll use it in those situations regardless of what else is around us. I haven't particularly noticed that it draws other encounters via social BUT it IS an AoE spell so you have to be careful that there aren't other encounters within its range when you cast it. Message Edited by Vicontessa on 07-29-2006 09:28 AM __________________

07-30-2006, 02:11 PM	#6
Zors Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	I agree with OP and would like to think that I've saved groups I was in with this spell. Now, I don't mind a tough fight and won't cast it every time we get adds, but it's not hard to spot when it's going south. I usually target an encounter the MT is not targetting, hit Null Caress and root. It gives you a 10 second breather and atleast one encounter is out of the equation for a bit longer. __________________

07-31-2006, 01:59 PM	#8
matinisback Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 71	i use just for add's and when tank need's the mob away __________________

08-01-2006, 12:58 AM	#9
Marlow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	Patrix513 wrote: the spell sucks...the deaggro is pretty much useless on it I will whole-heartedly disagree with this poster. __________________ Marlow Tuff Retired

07-29-2006, 03:43 PM	#2
Solan Swiftfist Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 46	I don't use it because they made the mobs way to social in the KOS expansion.

07-29-2006, 03:55 PM	#3
Pilgrim Divine Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 137	i sometimes use it soloing if both my roots have failed/broken and they are about to beat down on me, gives me time to reroot, occasionally a life saver, annoying when it teleports them on top of you tho, lol. Very very rarely in grps unless i have got aggro and have very little health left & zero danger of attracting new mobs.

07-29-2006, 09:34 PM	#5
Xede Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 198	the spell sucks...the deaggro is pretty much useless on it

07-30-2006, 08:54 PM	#7
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	The only time I use it - raids then I use in conjuction with next combo FHSed Apocal - Vuliian - Null Caress

08-01-2006, 01:11 AM	#10
pharacyde Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 308	I use it alot in PVP Good to be able to force the opponents to get the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lost of my back. Pitty it's still broken in PVP, since after Teleportation the players are granted immunity for some weird reason. __________________

08-01-2006, 01:15 AM	#11
Xede Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 198	Marlow wrote: Patrix513 wrote: the spell sucks...the deaggro is pretty much useless on it I will whole-heartedly disagree with this poster. please state why? hell here's a screenshot of the spell at M1...also keep in mine i have the reduced power cost AA so it may cost more power for some of you. maybe if the decreased threat was more it might be worth it....also teleporting mobs is actually kind of lame especially if you get aggro and the tank is trying to get the mob back onto them....maybe if it had the deaggro of concussion which is 1470-2450 deaggro it might be useful...but anything less than 1k is pathetic...just like vulian nullification is useless.

08-01-2006, 01:25 AM	#12
pharacyde Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 308	I can see it's less usefull in PVE, but in PVP it's an out of encounter Detarget, which pretty much rocks. __________________

08-01-2006, 03:45 AM	#13
Lurch72 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 25	It's good stuff for dueling melee classes. If I had a plat for every time I heard "Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] did I get teleported and rooted?" I'd be even richer. On raids, I am with Xede. It's next to useless, and maybe even harmful, depending on the encounter and the reaction your raid might have to seeing adds port/disappear. Message Edited by Lurch72 on 07-31-2006 04:58 PM

08-01-2006, 03:49 AM	#14
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter

08-01-2006, 04:01 AM	#15
Xede Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 198	Tanatus wrote: Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter i know its single target only...which is why it would be nice if it did that much for AE

08-01-2006, 01:08 PM	#16
Crono1321 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 838	Patrix513 wrote: Tanatus wrote: Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter i know its single target only...which is why it would be nice if it did that much for AE I don't see how its useless considering its a 1 second cast with a rather large radius? Sorcerors need all the deaggro they can get, and throwing this in early on helps you not get aggro. __________________ Slips 70 Illusionist

08-01-2006, 02:43 PM	#17
Xede Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 198	Crono1321 wrote: Patrix513 wrote: Tanatus wrote: Xede Concursion have a BIG problem it not affect whole encounter only mob that you are target, heck Null Caress the ONLY spell that reduce agro out of encounter ... Imo Vullian is far more supperior de-agro over Concursion because it affect whole encounter i know its single target only...which is why it would be nice if it did that much for AE I don't see how its useless considering its a 1 second cast with a rather large radius? Sorcerors need all the deaggro they can get, and throwing this in early on helps you not get aggro. why would you throw it on early? when you barely have any hate gain as it is. Maybe if you throw on apocalypse right away during AE fights and even that isnt enough to stop the mob from coming to you as you have already gained way more aggro than what the deaggro does. As stated by a dev before 1 dmg=1 point of hate. If that holds true, both of our AE deaggros are useless and only work against 1-2 ticks of War Pyre and thats it. Unless they up it to close to 2k there is no reason to cast those spells at all, especially after you have gotten aggro as it will not reduce it enough. I have used Null Caress and Vulian Nullification after i have gotten aggro and the teleport did not work as the mobs were put right on top of me and still beat me down. If the Null Caress did as much as maybe a priests AE deaggro, the spell would rock. But with a mere 800 points of deaggro, it isnt enough. Vulian Nullification is on a short recast time so maybe if spammed every chance i can see it being kinda useful, but within the time you have already casted the spell and gotten more damage spells off you have gained more aggro than what you reduced the last time.

08-01-2006, 07:14 PM	#18
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	xede, remember the devs also stated that deaggros arent supposed to save your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], theyre supposed to lower hate a tad so that the tank stays at the top of the hate list. they're not supposed to be an excuse to go all out and never worry about aggro. that said i can do 3k dps on a group encounter and not gain aggro off the tank and never really have issues if the tank is good and knows what hes doing. and yes i use both of these spells frequently, almost NEVER concussive. in raids its safe to use nc, as the mobs are immune to the teleport if they are epic tagged. true epic or not. edit spelling i been up for 8 hours on 2h sleep ... sue me. Message Edited by Felshades on 08-01-2006 08:15 AM

08-01-2006, 07:47 PM	#19
Niun01 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 113	Null Caress is one of my favorite spells. I call it the "[Removed for Content] the Tank off Spell", but it does come in handy.I cast it reguardless of the surroundings if I am getting beat to death, the healer is getting beat to death, or the tank has so many mobs on it from adds that it is called for. Null Caress + Boney grasp after a bad pull is a life saver at times.The deaggro part of the spell is just a lil icing on the cake, the spell is to get things back in order when it starts to go bad.We have no useless spells, just more situational then others. learn them all to the T and when and where they are to be used. It makes the difference between being just another caster and a being a true Warlock. __________________

08-01-2006, 08:03 PM	#20
Xede Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 198	Felshades wrote: xede, remember the devs also stated that deaggros arent supposed to save your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], theyre supposed to lower hate a tad so that the tank stays at the top of the hate list. they're not supposed to be an excuse to go all out and never worry about aggro. that said i can do 3k dps on a group encounter and not gain aggro off the tank and never really have issues if the tank is good and knows what hes doing. and yes i use both of these spells frequently, almost NEVER concussive. in raids its safe to use nc, as the mobs are immune to the teleport if they are epic tagged. true epic or not. edit spelling i been up for 8 hours on 2h sleep ... sue me. Message Edited by Felshades on 08-01-2006 08:15 AM i have teleported epics before so i do not use the spell.....unless they ninja fixed as they seem to like to do and i never said its suppose to save my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].....the deaggro isnt enough to even want to use. If you ask any member in my guild they will agree with me that it isnt enough. Why do priests get a 2k+ deaggro that pretty much does the same thing yet ours is gimped in comparison. i can do 3k on group encounters too if i try and in the right group setup. I dunno if you know my guild's reputation but we maximize dps/hate so the tank rarely gets aggro unless he sucks(which as of right now i have always thought he sucked) As of late i have used VN but not caress as i have teleported epic mobs before and I'm not gonna do that to the raid. 1) teleporting is [Removed for Content] 2) they should make it a pacify just like VN and then it'd be useful to use more.

08-01-2006, 08:29 PM	#21
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	yeah guild i raided with for a while used the same setup max hate on mt/dps. kept him in the top 3 slots if possible.but i have never once teleported an epic, and i used the spell since they changed it, and as late as last night on the harla dar encounter (new server new guild to school on how to actually do stuff.. sigh).its just supposed to give the tank an edge.. i usually use these with my drake out and a dagger in mainhand so the recast isnt too bad, and use it every single time its up. either i'm just lucky or i'm somehow managing to time it with tank taunts...once i already have aggro though, FORGET IT. i'm dead dont heal me, its cheaper to rez. lol.oh edit, keep forgetting crap its early...not sure which priest deaggro you're speaking of but unless they also changed those, if i recall they were on a five minute reuse? least the bf's fury had a deaggro on five minutes.. then again i aint slept in almost 36 hours for any period longer than two hours and my brain just isnt working right now... forgive stupidity if i'm makin any >< Message Edited by Felshades on 08-01-2006 09:31 AM

08-02-2006, 06:32 PM	#22
Sluglord Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 37	I'll second the assertion that in PvP, this spell is quite useful, even though it is bugged. The ability to bounce a bunch of enemies from your immediate vicinity, slow them down, and get them off your back (and generally, off your group) is not to be sneered at. I do wish they'd fix the immunity bit at the end, though it tends to surprise the enemy as much as it annoys me. -------------------------- Carnifax, Warlock of Qeynos Venekor __________________

08-03-2006, 06:09 AM	#23
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Well lets say ALL warlocks de-agro spells teh sucks .... but they help a little... With correct raid set up - agro never a problem hate buff from coercer + hate from dirge then de-agro from troubadur and then cross group amends from coercer ... its nearly impossible to generate enouth agro for warlock to get killed. Our de-agrp thou can be used to soften hate burst that we can generate if FHSed Apocal crit - only 2 spells good for it Null Caress and Vullian ... Concursion unfortunally dont work

08-03-2006, 06:36 AM	#24
pharacyde Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 308	Sluglord wrote: I'll second the assertion that in PvP, this spell is quite useful, even though it is bugged. The ability to bounce a bunch of enemies from your immediate vicinity, slow them down, and get them off your back (and generally, off your group) is not to be sneered at. I do wish they'd fix the immunity bit at the end, though it tends to surprise the enemy as much as it annoys me. -------------------------- Carnifax, Warlock of Qeynos Venekor I reported the bug to Achonix, he was going to look at it, and see what he could do. I hope for a fix myself soon. __________________

08-03-2006, 08:49 AM	#25
Crono1321 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 838	One dmg might be equal to one threat, but I do believe there is a threshold of threat amount before you move up on the hate list. Apocalypse can easily be cast on opening without getting aggro, and it does what, 4-6k damage? Our deaggros are proactive, not reactive. Yes they are not as large as they should be, but what can you do? Just use them and be cautious. This spell needs to be fixed in the fact that yes it still does teleport some non-named epics, and needs to be fixed in the matter that it sometimes doesn't move the mob at all, only leaves them right on top of you. If you're goign to have a teleport spell, just make it so they always teleport a set distance...1-20 meters is stupid, just make it 20 meters. __________________ Slips 70 Illusionist

08-03-2006, 04:52 PM	#26
Ivane0 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	this spell sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. teleporting epic's? iv seen it teleport them, and doing that in a raid is bad...very bad. best chance at surviving if u get agro it run to tank and hope healers are on the ball. usualy works. yes its easy to do tons of dps on raids especialy with troubs and the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tons of procs we have on items. but if u wana go all out from the start on a large group you most likely gona die unless you got zerker tanks. god i lover zerker tanks! -Ivann genesis

08-04-2006, 06:37 AM	#27
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Crono FHSed crit on Apocal easy get around 12.5K+ damage per mob if your gear proc then more then that I seen many time that FHSed Apocal crits ticed 2.5-2.8K damage on dispatched mobs

08-06-2006, 07:35 PM	#28
Crono1321 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 838	Tanatus wrote: Crono FHSed crit on Apocal easy get around 12.5K+ damage per mob if your gear proc then more then that I seen many time that FHSed Apocal crits ticed 2.5-2.8K damage on dispatched mobs Thank you for showing your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] once again tanatus. I woudl also like to see those numbers before a raid mob is fully deubffed...oh wait that doesn't happen. __________________ Slips 70 Illusionist

08-09-2006, 04:28 AM	#29
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Well my advice then would be a) get right AA (max crits + max base spell damage + FHS) and right gear also dont hesistate to use portions (+4% to crits) b) dont hesitate ask you local coercer to use his/her dispatch and call it too on top of it use maelstorm - thats -2000 to Nox c) try replace your Adp 3 with M1 ... it helps Thats pretty much it .... and oh btw 2.5-2.8K that w/o brigand just with coercer debuff and w/o maxed our base damage AA

08-10-2006, 09:49 AM	#30
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	Tanatus wrote: Well my advice then would be a) get right AA (max crits + max base spell damage + FHS) and right gear also dont hesistate to use portions (+4% to crits) b) dont hesitate ask you local coercer to use his/her dispatch and call it too on top of it use maelstorm - thats -2000 to Nox c) try replace your Adp 3 with M1 ... it helps Thats pretty much it .... and oh btw 2.5-2.8K that w/o brigand just with coercer debuff and w/o maxed our base damage AA uhm.... coercer does not have dispatch.. thats brigand yer thinking.i have gotten apoc to crit for up to 3200 a tick and it ends up with me dead, but i still think you bought your warlock.. either that or are really really stupid./agree with previous poster in either this thread or another i was lookin in about this guy.