Bony Grasp Changed on Test

[madbx]

Although not listed in the test patch message Bony Grasp has had its duration changed to 12 seconds on the Testserver -Nelib 50th Warlock Test Server

<IMG src="http://members.optusnet.com.au/tech/grasp.JPG"> 

[madbx]

Added SS

[Andre]

Huge nerf again to us warlocks. First Paralyzing Fear and now Bony Grasp.

 

Hopefully this went not live before combatrewamp.

 

Fine if they short duration time than they have all opportunities to shorten cast time and recast time aswell.

 

[Dae]

This is going to make Splitpaw interesting. Other than that I hardly use it. Too long cast time in groups, soloing heroics is a waste of time and effort and when soloing single mobs frozen manacles is far more convenient.

Message Edited by Daerv on 06-23-2005 02:44 AM

[Andre]

Frozen Manacles are grey and not Warlock spell. BG is a warlockspell. FM is grey BG - not so fast. FM could be broken just by debuff, BG couldn't. Where is point to compare both of those spells? Point is BG is only one good root for warlock. And this one got nerfed.

[chaos overlo]

What the hell? I dont believe this. I really dont see the point how this can do any good for balancing reasons. Why does SOE always does only half of their work? When they lower the duration they should also lower the cast time and the recast. 4s Cast for a root which hold 12s! ROFL!!! Well done so far, another spell rendered useless. Thanks again for the great job. :smileymad:

@Daerv: "...when soloing single mobs frozen manacles is far more convenient." LOL? By now I really doubt that you are a warlock. What are u talking about? You compare FM with BG? Andre stated all facts why this is bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Nothing more to add.

Message Edited by chaos overload on 06-23-2005 03:15 AM

[Dae]

Wow one starred for stating my play style. Very mature. Anyway. This will remove your ability to fight heroics. This is a good thing. Being able to do that was stupid. You enjoyed it while you could and now the party's over. When fighting a solo single mob do you really care if root holds? Soloing is all about speed for me. Frozen Manacles saves time and allows me to get at least a couple of spells in before the mob charges me. I have various stuns to deal with it if it gets close but they aren't usually necessary. Tanking solo mobs is easy. You can't fail to kill it before it kills you. Re-rooting and moving around wastes time. Bony Grasp also has the rather inconvenient side effect of aggroing other mobs wandering around the area you're soloing in. Root, debuff, burn, move on. Back to Splitpaw. You can still use Bony Grasp to open up with. It's advantage has been much reduced by the fact that mobs will now nuke while rooted anyway (say hello to the mass stifling other classes live with). 12 seconds is plenty of time to land an AE and burn down at least two of the mobs in the group. As it stands now I can Bony Grasp the entire group and just pick them off one by one. That's not fun or challenging. I don't even have Devastation yet. Regarding Frozen Manacles, who cares if it's grey. I use a lot of grey spells. So do other classes. The fact is it's a convenient, versatile and reliable spell. It's not a Warlock spell no. It's a sorcerer spell. Unless they add a level cap to it it will continue to be useful.

[Andre]

How ,please, can you argue that lvl 19 not class specific spell is goot opoortunity to just berfed class proprietary root?

As it stand now warlocks have not roots that could be used after 26-27 lvl. PF is nonsens and BG is not even worst cast of cource if you not wish gain aggro to all cratures that was in radius 10m from oyurs target.

"Good" job SoE.

PS.I think you got onestarred not because of yours play style rather for yours desire to support this nerf wihtout any valble agruments.

 

[Vanra]

Oh....my....goodness. I literally can't believe I'm seeing this. There are very few things I would actively complain about,  but this is literally one of the worst possible spells that could be changed for us. And changed this drastically to boot. If this goes live it would dramatically alter my playing style. Bony Grasp was one of those things I could always count on.  Should this happen, Frozen Manacles, a Sorcerer spell, becomes my primary longest duration nukable root. I'm sorry, but this is unacceptable from my perspective. I truly, truly hope this does not go live. It would be devastating. Still speechless.

Message Edited by Vanrael on 06-23-2005 03:56 AM

[chaos overlo]

[...] I think you got onestarred not because of yours play style rather for yours desire to support this nerf wihtout any valble agruments.

 

I never understood why people supporting a nerf in the first place. Hello? Knock knock... It's your class, its us your fellow warlocks. Why the hell can anyone find anything good in such a nerf? Why do you think all of us play ur way? FM is not a reliable spell, as soon as I nuke there is a VERY good chance that it will break. Is that the way you define action and fun? I call this frustrating.

 

@SOE: Fix our spells which are still broken months after the release. Fix elemental resis on mobs so the wizzis can do their dmg and STOP TOYING AROUND WITH OUR FUN IN OUR SPARETIME !!! WE PAY YOU FOR THIS F.CKING FUN! Please remember this little but remarkable fact.

Message Edited by chaos overload on 06-23-2005 04:00 AM

[Dae]

Andrez: Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking how I can compare Bony Grasp to Frozen Manacles? Easy. They are both perfectly good root spells and they are both still used at 50, regardless of when we acquire them. They both have advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation. My posts are my opinions. The argument isn't meant to be viable or non-viable. That's an irrelevant consideration. I'm just saying this isn't a world ending change... How exactly is this change devastating? (beyond not being able to solo heroics any more). Soloing heroic/epic mobs - Who cares. No one should be able to solo these period. Soloing single non-heroic mob - FM, one debuff, burn, ignore it hitting you, move on. Grouping - Another 4 seconds added onto my already long time spent debuffing? Oh look the rest of the group has just taken the mob down to 50% while you were messing around. I've yet to find a time when Bony Grasp is necessary in a group. Splitpaw - This will undoubtedly be harder now. Much harder. For those who missed it I used the word "interesting" in a sarcastic manner. I still think it will be perfectly doable though. We'll just have to work harder. I'm surprised people haven't asked the following question actually... Has Ring Of Cold received the same treatment? Anyway. This is all part of the big overall revamp. We don't yet know if we're receiving upgrades to compensate or anything like that. By all means carry on panicking though. The question is whether you're going to let this become the end of your world and upset you. I'd rather be happy and not really care.

[BaronVonPitviper]

Yeeeouch. I hatess it.

[Andre]

I'll be little less chilled if this update went within "big combat rewamp" in game. But looks like this thing is a nice step from developer to push us,fellow warlocks, in sun shining of this wounderfull summer Who cares if 9/10 never comes back?

up to FM and BG.

"Are you asking how I can compare Bony Grasp to Frozen Manacles? Easy. They are both perfectly good root spells and they are both still used at 50, regardless of when we acquire them. They both have advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation"

What i can say to explain you such evident things? No one meant to use lvl 19 spell at 50 lvl because they have no better spell/alternative! If you prefear to use an old , outgrayed ability/spell than it is somthing wrong with you not with whole warlockclass. 

 

[chaos overlo]

Q: What i can say to explain you such evident things?

A: Nothing. I wait for the post in which he says that lightning burst is one of his favorite nukes.

I agree with you Andre. No one should be forced to use a greyed ability just to perform his/her role as a warlock. Whats next? Remove shield spells and reactive heals from the priest classes? Hey, they still got their heals, they can now have much more fun. LOL

I still think this is the wrong way of adjusting things. Instead of downgrading one or another class they should fix the game issues which are so annoying for months.

Message Edited by chaos overload on 06-23-2005 05:08 AM

[Andre]

To all protectors of this nerf hightly recommeded to read this topic. FM 5 sek duration. LOOOL.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=19819

 

 

[Dae]

You will find a lot of people use Frozen Manacles at 50. I use a lot of grey spells at 47. Painful Meditation (separate timer), Frozen Manacles (good root), Ice Spike (handy for finishing the odd HO or finishing off mobs). Bellengere's Sapping Salvo and Noxious Bolt (level 30 and 30.6) are both still used at level 50. Flashfreeze (level 29) is still useful due to Deter being weird. Venomous Runes, Boon of the Shadowed and Accord are all grey but both provide benefit. Cure and Dispell arcane both last forever. I'm curious how you can upgrade a traditional (by traditional I mean how roots were in EQ1 for the most part) root like FM anyway.In short I use all the spells at my disposal regardless of their con colour. It comes down to what you find works best for you in a given situation. You make fun of me because I use these spells? I use every tool at my disposal. No we shouldn't have to use greyed out spells because the upgrades are poor however that is how the game is (and not just for our class). You can either work with it or not.Chaos Overload says - "A: Nothing. I wait for the post in which he says that lightning burst is one of his favorite nukes."Oh please... You and your best friend seem to be missing the fact that I never once stated this nerf was a good thing. I'm merely pointing out that it's not the end of the world. You chose to descend into childish name calling.Regarding Frozen Manacles being 0.5 duration. Whether roots are bugged on test or not the description states that it's duration is 0.5 seconds because the root comes in two parts. The damage part and the root part. The damage part lasts 0.5 seconds and is replaced by the root directly after. Watch your maintained spells next time you use FM.Is this change really going to be much more than a speedbump for people?

[Andre]

Yes people use FM as well as other grey spells. But as it stands now there was a choice and SoE continue trying to cut our choices.

 

/jokeing on

Sure thing if we have less spells there more likely they coulbe be balanced better, isn't it?

 

Can anyone start poll "balanced vs unbalanced warlock(put any class here)":

balanced :

1 nuke (always same damage or completely resist), 1 dot ( unstackable with everything),1 debuff (unstackable with everything),1 buff(unstackable with everything and taking 5 Conzentration spots).No roots because they are huge unevalueble advantage.

No items in game that could change surviability and DPS of Warlock

 

unbalanced :

5-6 nukes at different timers and with variety in effects, 2 - 3 DoTs some of them AoE, some buffs and debuffs stackable with everything, Huge variety of items from crafted to MYSTYCAL with big bonuses to Warlock like spellhaste,succes hit proc, drain, knockback, stun etc.

/jokeing off

[Soefje]

Wasn't there a discussion somewhere that in the new combat update, grey spells would not hit higher level Mobs?  I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't find it.

[Deathspell]

I don't understand it, I love my Warlock but it seems they wanna make me stop playing... We already have so many broken spells... You cast BG on 3 mobs, cast a DOT, nuke, and the BG is already wearing off, you root one with FM, the 45s BG recast timer is still running, rest of mobs come.... you are dead. Can someone PLEASE give me a scenario where you can use BG with its new time-settings? More and more I have the feeling they hate the Warlocks, take away their soloing ability and make them into one-trick ponies (damage) in a group where they follow like headless chickens. I -sincerely- hope this stays on the Test server.

[anshar]

Oh, this is a shame. It feels like I am in a race to get to the level I can use this spell before they change it. Oh well. At this point I can only hope they cut the casting time by half, and the recast timer by half to two-thirds, and maybe the power cost by 30% or more. I think that would satisfy me. 90 power, 2 sec casting, .5 sec recovery, 15 sec recast 12 sec duration. I think that would make it quite useful, and limit the power of the spell. As of now, as it is on test, it looks like it is mainly a last ditch spell. A last ditch spell you need 4 or more seconds of notice that you need.

[weim]

Excellent, Just turned my root into what i would call a stun. 

** concerning frozen Manacles ** i think its a great spell and, of course, I still use it.  But its pretty sad that the only really good root that i have will be one that i recieved when i was not even a Warlock.  PF is not useless but its about 90% useless and not on my hotbar.

i hope they are busy fixing problems that other classes have while they are swapping out my V8 for a Briggs and Stratton....

 

Vishya

44 Warlock .. Steamfont 

[Jethro]

me not like.  it's the only root we have that really works.  frozen manacles is basically just a short stun, as soon as the mob is casted on it breaks.

[Deathspell]

I casted (adept 1) FM on some ice skeletons (green to me) in EF, I did not get a "resist" message, but FM did not hold 1 second... how about that? Hey, you know what, what IF that is a bugged screenie? What if the spell gets these uber-lame stats if you make it adept3? I mean, if that's the adept3, what's the appIV or adept 1 gonna be then?

Message Edited by Deathspell on 06-23-2005 07:29 AM

[Ravenmi]

Looks like all the roots on Test are nerfed bad from what I'm hearing.. hope Mr. Annoying "I don't care if they nerf Bony Grasp cause I still have FM", is happy now.

Message Edited by Ravenmist on 06-23-2005 07:54 AM

[SalBlu]

I had my Ring of Cold nerfed to 12 seconds as well.  What i'm dreading is looking at my other roots, Truss, and Tether, to see if they will still hold, and if the duration is still the same.

[MilkToa]

---

Daerv wrote:
Wow one starred for stating my play style. Very mature.

Anyway.

This will remove your ability to fight heroics. This is a good thing. Being able to do that was stupid. You enjoyed it while you could and now the party's over.

When fighting a solo single mob do you really care if root holds? Soloing is all about speed for me. Frozen Manacles saves time and allows me to get at least a couple of spells in before the mob charges me. I have various stuns to deal with it if it gets close but they aren't usually necessary. Tanking solo mobs is easy. You can't fail to kill it before it kills you. Re-rooting and moving around wastes time. Bony Grasp also has the rather inconvenient side effect of aggroing other mobs wandering around the area you're soloing in. Root, debuff, burn, move on.

Back to Splitpaw. You can still use Bony Grasp to open up with. It's advantage has been much reduced by the fact that mobs will now nuke while rooted anyway (say hello to the mass stifling other classes live with). 12 seconds is plenty of time to land an AE and burn down at least two of the mobs in the group. As it stands now I can Bony Grasp the entire group and just pick them off one by one. That's not fun or challenging. I don't even have Devastation yet.

Regarding Frozen Manacles, who cares if it's grey. I use a lot of grey spells. So do other classes. The fact is it's a convenient, versatile and reliable spell. It's not a Warlock spell no. It's a sorcerer spell. Unless they add a level cap to it it will continue to be useful.

---

As you will soon discover, the stun Flashfreeze only works on mobs level 48 or less, which sucks because there is no viable replacement.

 

[Splatterpunk28]

If this is already in test, it WILL happen.

 

I'm kinda speechless, this is a huge hit to our soloing ability and ... not to scream nerf for other classes, but there are others that can solo better AS IT IS.  Will they be nerfed as well?  Or is this just for us sorcerors?

 

I generally play at really odd hours...this will pretty much cut out any type of decent xp I can get now.  I can rarely find groups as it is, so I've been solo'ing green heroics for ages while some of the other classes take the very few "solo" spots in the game for 45+ players.  Now they are going to be even more contested than before if all us sorcerors have no where else to go either.

 

I do not feel this is a needed nerf as like I said above several classes can solo just as good, some better.

 

Oh well, roots will be nerfed, our power regen items (GEBs to 5 and RoI to 7/tick), what next?

 

Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on 06-23-2005 09:00 AM

[Dae]

Yeah it's going to suck losing Flashfreeze once I level to 48 and the mobs in Splitaw are mostly 49. Maybe they'll fix Deter in return for the nerfing of Bony Grasp. TNN is enough to prevent me dieing in most xp group situations when I draw aggro though. Deter cast time is just way too long for that purpose. Btw I'm not sure if people read but there's a thread on the Wizard board about certain mobs no longer being soloable. This is due to mobs now nuking while rooted or something. Expect to be chain stifled like everyone else in Splitpaw now. I did wonder why I'd never been done over by the Deceivers until now. Turns out it's because of rooting. My 24 Berserker has a much harder time with those mobs. Seems once I started doing the instance at 24 the mobs gained the chain stifle ability. 23 instances were fine. My original posts were probably a bit too positive sounding. I find it annoying that this has slipped through before we see the big picture of the big combat "upgrade". The fact it was also snuck in without being in the test patch notes is also pretty cheeky. I mean Sony are well known for not announcing nerfs but it's still annoying. Oh and one other thing. If we're going to be tanking somewhat more often due to this AND they remove our ability to parry as was originally planned we're certainly going to be dieing a lot more often. This change could really suck actually... Hmmm... At least Warlocks and Wizards agree for once anyway .

[Lord_Xyr]

If this goes live it will be the last straw for me. I stuck it out this long waiting for things to be fixed but all SOE keeps doing is shoving the reamer further in with every patch. I'm sick of it. P.S. No, you can't have my stuff.

[V4n]

This is a HORRIBLE change.   Consider this combined with the upcoming melee changes in which we will take much more damage.  Warlocks are about to take a huge nerf to our solo ability. Why are they changing this?  How does it improve things for anyone?  What is the point of making the game less fun to play? /boggle