Wizard Raiding Basics

BlackAdderDr · 05-21-2006, 10:08 PM

I have another question and felt that instead of extending my Rusty wizard thread that it would be benficial to start this new one as I could not find good tips in searches of this forum. I hope Im not the only one new to raiding with a wizard.

Twice now I have managed to pull agro off the MT on an epic mob. Once against Broog, and then again against Mag in LS. I *thought* I was being conservative, and am confused as to whether I was going overboard,or the tank was not doing a good enough job. I started the fight with frostshield, concussive and piercing Icicles. Then Ill put up forge of Ro and protoflame, and heat convulsions. Pull back and use my int hex doll while concussive refreshes. When the hex is done its frostshield, concussive, piercing icicles and BoI, Cremate, etc... Ill refresh ro if I have to and I dont spam my other spells, relying mainly on FoR, proto and dots and the occasional IC(after there is a yellow bar on mob). I pulled Mag off of a 64 SK about 1/2 into the fight and broog off a 58 bruiser 1/3 into the fight. I can understand Broog but not Mag, I mean pulling agro off a 64SK seemed wrong. But I guess I dont know SKs agro capability. Is IC a big no-no on raids? Is there some rule on epics, like IC when you see the orange in their health bar? I would like to hear some suggestions for low-agro sustained DPS for epic encounters. I would prefer to avoid the trial and error technique and kindly assume that I dont have any agro management buffs from pallys/troubs available.

Many Thanks,

-Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

Faheuc · 05-21-2006, 10:34 PM

One thing, dont start with concussive. It an agg reduction spell and if you havent done any dmg yet it will just be wasted. Im not a big raiding wizard, but i usually start of with icicles, protoinferno, all dots then use BoL. I refresh dots when they about to expire then use concussive and maybe ice nova.

frigginfragged · 05-22-2006, 05:44 AM

I have a 70 wizard, raid 3 times a week...here's my general rotation

can't remember all the spell names, but anyone that plays a wizard should know what i'm talking about

debuff, protoferno, frostshield, the two single target dots, sunstrike, ball of lava, repeat dots when available, repeat ss and bol when available, concussive anytime it's up after you've actually accrued a little hate, frostshield anytime it's up as long as you're close enough and mob doesn't have a horendous ae

also use the proc that gives you extra damage on every heat spell, sry can't remember what it's called

ice nova i usually leave for when the mob is in the orange, and i usually only use it once a fight, though if it's taking a very long time or i have amends on me, i may use it in early yellow and use again in red

Fusion? haha, hardly ever...unless i know the mob very well and feel very comfortable in getting within smackdown range for 7 secs or so

another key to not pulling aggro is to dps slowly early in thefight, let the tank firmly secure aggro, use concussive as often as you can

Key to aggro management is the right MT group: Guardian, coercer, dirge, defiler/mystic, etc...

Admh · 05-22-2006, 07:10 AM

might wanna add an assassin for hate transfer if mt aggro is that bad. SMILEY

Personally, i have no problems with aggro at all, I guess it depends on your tank and your Tank group setup. Most raiding wizards can cast fusion, ice nova off the bat without casting any de-aggro spells and live SMILEY

ailees · 05-22-2006, 11:39 AM

I agree with you Admhel : I don't use deagro spells, even if I have the little pet up. But in raids our tank stick to mob like glue. I start with debuf, Glacial wind (if 2+ mobs) and mobs already are stuck to MT.The only place where I have problems is at end of Labs, where there are some mobs that switch agro.. well, I die from time to time, who cares ?

mutschml · 05-22-2006, 12:52 PM

Basically a toubadur is your best raid friend. He has a nice aggro reducer that lets you nuke as you want. Additionally he gives you the power to have fun all the time.Second is, have a hate buff on your MT. Dirge or coercer can do that.With a setup like this, a wizard can suvive pretty good.

drajev · 05-22-2006, 02:17 PM

Raiding wizard here.

Zerker ftw! He's a much better tank in holding agro against big aoe fights, does a hell of a lot more dmg than guards and makes lil trouble for a wiz getting agro, especially if u have a troub in your grp - first he deagros, second he boosts dps. In aoe fights i can just chain nuke aoes then DD until aoes refresh then aoe again, do 1.5-2k dps without taking agro... if u have melee dps in your grp like brigand, assassin, ranger even, don't forget frigid gift. I notice this spell is being neglected by most wizs, and by myself included for a very long time. U'll be surprised the insane dmg this procs adds to melee dps.

Then again, if you dont have a troub in grp, and your tank is not the best one, 3 solutions - a lot of Iceshield, Raiment of the Skywatcher - deagro proc robe from a named dude in TT, and Concussive before a big badaboom nuke. Thus you can handle it tho in most cases you'll be doing crap dps. Nevertheless, a dead wiz does no dps at all compared to a living wiz who does moderate dps.

Nuke away, slackers!:smileyvery-happy:

electricninjasex · 05-22-2006, 03:09 PM

If you can't use Ice Nova like toilet paper most of the time, then your raid setup needs fixing. In my view it's not just a privilege anymore; it's an absolute requirement.

Message Edited by electricninjasex on 05-22-2006 07:16 AM

BlackAdderDr · 05-22-2006, 04:48 PM

Thanks for all the replies everyone. We did Broog with a pickup group(bad idea maybe, but hey its only x2), and mag was just a group of 4. I dont raid much and if/when I do I certainly wont know how good the tank (barring a few friends). I would much rather do moderate DPS and live then draw agro(its embarassing). Nice to hear that in the right setup you can really wind up your spells.

Thanks Again,

-Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

IllusiveThoughts · 05-22-2006, 08:26 PM

BlackAdderDrop wrote:

Thanks for all the replies everyone. We did Broog with a pickup group(bad idea maybe, but hey its only x2), and mag was just a group of 4. I dont raid much and if/when I do I certainly wont know how good the tank (barring a few friends). I would much rather do moderate DPS and live then draw agro(its embarassing). Nice to hear that in the right setup you can really wind up your spells.

Thanks Again,

-Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

like the others have stressed raid set up is key.

you need a de-hate, either ghetto version with amends(will usually get pally killed), or get a troub and stick him with all the casters.

I've been on a raid with 0 de-hate and a not so good mt. I pulled agro at 400 dps using only DOTS!

The other things you can do is make sure the MT group has proper hate gain like the others suggested, assasin or a good swash for hate transfer(if you dont have an assasin) or Coercer for hate + dps increases + regen, or a dirge for simmilar buffs.

usually dirge or coercer are best, but assasin or swash are better than nothing.

curtlewis · 05-24-2006, 02:38 AM

frigginfragged wrote:>
debuff, protoferno, frostshield, the two single target dots, sunstrike, ball of lava, repeat dots when available, repeat ss and bol when available, concussive anytime it's up after you've actually accrued a little hate, frostshield anytime it's up as long as you're close enough and mob doesn't have a horendous ae

I can only recall one single target DoT (Irradiate).

Bright_Morn · 05-24-2006, 05:28 AM

Iradiate, Rending Icicles, Fiery Convulsions are all short duration single target DoTs.

Falcogen · 05-24-2006, 05:59 PM

Been a while but broog drains the power instantly of the person who aggros, tank with no power = aggro to wizard

In a raid on a single target you should be able to go all out nuts with the right set up SMILEY

FLLonewu · 05-24-2006, 08:56 PM

On extended fights lasting more than 45 seconds, using the dumbfire pets will generate a ton of aggro on you. When the pet dies or expires, all the aggro that the pet has generated transfers to you. From what you say about your cast order and when you got aggro, that sounds like what is happening.

duuf · 05-24-2006, 11:32 PM

If you have a pally around beg cry plead for amends. Raid with a Pally mt and my wizzy that is set up totally for damage (critical hits lines, brainstorm etc.) is in main group for one reason to keep agro on the tank. Usually start with debuff and immediately fire a guaranteed critical ice nova then every high damage spell in my arsenal. Can count on one hand the number of times that he has lost agro and its usually some mob with memory wipe like the sunchild. Duufuss lvl 70 pally Duffus lvl 70 wiz Everfrost

BlackAdderDr · 05-26-2006, 01:58 AM

Well with the pally I grouped with alot I would jokingly ask to be punished(amends) for misbehaving(drawing agro). Bit of a running joke now between us. It is usually the first thing he does when I group with him. -Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

MCG_DaMa · 05-26-2006, 09:14 AM

There are alot of Great suggestions here. I agree that use of the dumbfire pets is a no no in a raid as when they expire you get the hate, Group setup is a must but even when you dont quite have the right setup you still need to push the DPS I see so many wizards sit back and just play around with DPS afraid to get aggro however I also have a lvl 70 warden and I can tell you that DPS on a mob is key to helping keep the tank alive. A good wizard will draw aggro once in a wile that means they are doing their job trying to max DPS its just if you get aggro every time you may need to let up a bit. I also see some tanks resting on there hate generators in raids meaning they dont taunt enough or try hard enough to keep hate so you might want to keep an eye out for that too.

Fingle · 05-26-2006, 06:50 PM

MCG_DaMa wrote:
There are alot of Great suggestions here. I agree that use of the dumbfire pets is a no no in a raid as when they expire you get the hate, Group setup is a must but even when you dont quite have the right setup you still need to push the DPS I see so many wizards sit back and just play around with DPS afraid to get aggro however I also have a lvl 70 warden and I can tell you that DPS on a mob is key to helping keep the tank alive. A good wizard will draw aggro once in a wile that means they are doing their job trying to max DPS its just if you get aggro every time you may need to let up a bit. I also see some tanks resting on there hate generators in raids meaning they dont taunt enough or try hard enough to keep hate so you might want to keep an eye out for that too.

Welll yes you get the hate when your dumbfire pet dies, you also get the hate when you fire of a nuke. Does this mean you will stop using them to?:smileytongue:

BlackAdderDr · 05-27-2006, 04:57 PM

Yes but dumbfire versus nuke is apples and oranges here. I am not sure if this is true or not, but take for instance amends as the agro management tool. Your dumbfire pet generates agro outside the scope of amends and upon death it transfers the hate (sans amends) directly to you. This is speculation on my part and I am not sure if there is a way to test it, but seems very plausible given the game mechanics. There are other agro tools and whether these encompass dumbfire or not is unclear. I wonder if necros/conjurorers have insight on this. In a very nice pickup group we were running to the Roost and stopped to do Broog at my request. One group consisting of a Pally, Inquisitor, Fury, Warlock and myself. I had amends on me and was conservative till yellow then I really opened up. Didnt draw agro once and only one healer went oop during the fight. Notiuced the Pally's lack of power and mana fed him every chance I could. Much better experience, guildmates could not believe that I didnt draw agro ;P -Acelia 59.5 Wizard of Nektulosp.s. In a regular group the warlock/wizard combo for DPS is just stunning SMILEY

ShreddedWhe · 05-28-2006, 01:24 AM

I raid regularly with my wizard and never have aggro issues. Like everyone has stated, start small, I always start with frost shield because its a good way to help the tank gain aggro...hits for 3-5K very quickly (master2). Then debuff, 48s dot, protoflame, more dots, incapacitate (long reuse timer), ball of lava, refresh any dots/frostshield, concussive ice nova, rince and repeat. If you have a good tank with master taunts, it shouldn't be an issue, especially if you have a pally or trouby in your grp.

05-22-2006, 07:10 AM	#4
Admh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 328	might wanna add an assassin for hate transfer if mt aggro is that bad. Personally, i have no problems with aggro at all, I guess it depends on your tank and your Tank group setup. Most raiding wizards can cast fusion, ice nova off the bat without casting any de-aggro spells and live

05-22-2006, 11:39 AM	#5
ailees Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Toulouse (France) Posts: 553	I agree with you Admhel : I don't use deagro spells, even if I have the little pet up. But in raids our tank stick to mob like glue. I start with debuf, Glacial wind (if 2+ mobs) and mobs already are stuck to MT.The only place where I have problems is at end of Labs, where there are some mobs that switch agro.. well, I die from time to time, who cares ? __________________

05-22-2006, 12:52 PM	#6
mutschml Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Basically a toubadur is your best raid friend. He has a nice aggro reducer that lets you nuke as you want. Additionally he gives you the power to have fun all the time.Second is, have a hate buff on your MT. Dirge or coercer can do that.With a setup like this, a wizard can suvive pretty good. __________________ Nukem - 70-Wizard / 70 Tailor Bicia - 70-Coercer Achila 70-Alchimist Fizzleblood on Kithicor

05-22-2006, 08:26 PM	#10
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	BlackAdderDrop wrote: Thanks for all the replies everyone. We did Broog with a pickup group(bad idea maybe, but hey its only x2), and mag was just a group of 4. I dont raid much and if/when I do I certainly wont know how good the tank (barring a few friends). I would much rather do moderate DPS and live then draw agro(its embarassing). Nice to hear that in the right setup you can really wind up your spells. Thanks Again, -Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos like the others have stressed raid set up is key. you need a de-hate, either ghetto version with amends(will usually get pally killed), or get a troub and stick him with all the casters. I've been on a raid with 0 de-hate and a not so good mt. I pulled agro at 400 dps using only DOTS! The other things you can do is make sure the MT group has proper hate gain like the others suggested, assasin or a good swash for hate transfer(if you dont have an assasin) or Coercer for hate + dps increases + regen, or a dirge for simmilar buffs. usually dirge or coercer are best, but assasin or swash are better than nothing. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

05-24-2006, 02:38 AM	#11
curtlewis Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 246	frigginfragged wrote:> debuff, protoferno, frostshield, the two single target dots, sunstrike, ball of lava, repeat dots when available, repeat ss and bol when available, concussive anytime it's up after you've actually accrued a little hate, frostshield anytime it's up as long as you're close enough and mob doesn't have a horendous ae I can only recall one single target DoT (Irradiate).

05-21-2006, 10:08 PM	#1
BlackAdderDr Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 110	I have another question and felt that instead of extending my Rusty wizard thread that it would be benficial to start this new one as I could not find good tips in searches of this forum. I hope Im not the only one new to raiding with a wizard. Twice now I have managed to pull agro off the MT on an epic mob. Once against Broog, and then again against Mag in LS. I thought I was being conservative, and am confused as to whether I was going overboard,or the tank was not doing a good enough job. I started the fight with frostshield, concussive and piercing Icicles. Then Ill put up forge of Ro and protoflame, and heat convulsions. Pull back and use my int hex doll while concussive refreshes. When the hex is done its frostshield, concussive, piercing icicles and BoI, Cremate, etc... Ill refresh ro if I have to and I dont spam my other spells, relying mainly on FoR, proto and dots and the occasional IC(after there is a yellow bar on mob). I pulled Mag off of a 64 SK about 1/2 into the fight and broog off a 58 bruiser 1/3 into the fight. I can understand Broog but not Mag, I mean pulling agro off a 64SK seemed wrong. But I guess I dont know SKs agro capability. Is IC a big no-no on raids? Is there some rule on epics, like IC when you see the orange in their health bar? I would like to hear some suggestions for low-agro sustained DPS for epic encounters. I would prefer to avoid the trial and error technique and kindly assume that I dont have any agro management buffs from pallys/troubs available. Many Thanks, -Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

05-21-2006, 10:34 PM	#2
Faheuc Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 277	One thing, dont start with concussive. It an agg reduction spell and if you havent done any dmg yet it will just be wasted. Im not a big raiding wizard, but i usually start of with icicles, protoinferno, all dots then use BoL. I refresh dots when they about to expire then use concussive and maybe ice nova.

05-22-2006, 05:44 AM	#3
frigginfragged Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 22	I have a 70 wizard, raid 3 times a week...here's my general rotation can't remember all the spell names, but anyone that plays a wizard should know what i'm talking about debuff, protoferno, frostshield, the two single target dots, sunstrike, ball of lava, repeat dots when available, repeat ss and bol when available, concussive anytime it's up after you've actually accrued a little hate, frostshield anytime it's up as long as you're close enough and mob doesn't have a horendous ae also use the proc that gives you extra damage on every heat spell, sry can't remember what it's called ice nova i usually leave for when the mob is in the orange, and i usually only use it once a fight, though if it's taking a very long time or i have amends on me, i may use it in early yellow and use again in red Fusion? haha, hardly ever...unless i know the mob very well and feel very comfortable in getting within smackdown range for 7 secs or so another key to not pulling aggro is to dps slowly early in thefight, let the tank firmly secure aggro, use concussive as often as you can Key to aggro management is the right MT group: Guardian, coercer, dirge, defiler/mystic, etc...

05-22-2006, 02:17 PM	#7
drajev Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 88	Raiding wizard here. Zerker ftw! He's a much better tank in holding agro against big aoe fights, does a hell of a lot more dmg than guards and makes lil trouble for a wiz getting agro, especially if u have a troub in your grp - first he deagros, second he boosts dps. In aoe fights i can just chain nuke aoes then DD until aoes refresh then aoe again, do 1.5-2k dps without taking agro... if u have melee dps in your grp like brigand, assassin, ranger even, don't forget frigid gift. I notice this spell is being neglected by most wizs, and by myself included for a very long time. U'll be surprised the insane dmg this procs adds to melee dps. Then again, if you dont have a troub in grp, and your tank is not the best one, 3 solutions - a lot of Iceshield, Raiment of the Skywatcher - deagro proc robe from a named dude in TT, and Concussive before a big badaboom nuke. Thus you can handle it tho in most cases you'll be doing crap dps. Nevertheless, a dead wiz does no dps at all compared to a living wiz who does moderate dps. Nuke away, slackers!:smileyvery-happy:

05-22-2006, 03:09 PM	#8
electricninjasex Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 413	If you can't use Ice Nova like toilet paper most of the time, then your raid setup needs fixing. In my view it's not just a privilege anymore; it's an absolute requirement. Message Edited by electricninjasex on 05-22-2006 07:16 AM

05-22-2006, 04:48 PM	#9
BlackAdderDr Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 110	Thanks for all the replies everyone. We did Broog with a pickup group(bad idea maybe, but hey its only x2), and mag was just a group of 4. I dont raid much and if/when I do I certainly wont know how good the tank (barring a few friends). I would much rather do moderate DPS and live then draw agro(its embarassing). Nice to hear that in the right setup you can really wind up your spells. Thanks Again, -Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

05-24-2006, 05:28 AM	#12
Bright_Morn Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 182	Iradiate, Rending Icicles, Fiery Convulsions are all short duration single target DoTs. __________________

05-24-2006, 05:59 PM	#13
Falcogen Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: uk Posts: 75	Been a while but broog drains the power instantly of the person who aggros, tank with no power = aggro to wizard In a raid on a single target you should be able to go all out nuts with the right set up

05-24-2006, 08:56 PM	#14
FLLonewu General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	On extended fights lasting more than 45 seconds, using the dumbfire pets will generate a ton of aggro on you. When the pet dies or expires, all the aggro that the pet has generated transfers to you. From what you say about your cast order and when you got aggro, that sounds like what is happening.

05-24-2006, 11:32 PM	#15
duuf Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 417	If you have a pally around beg cry plead for amends. Raid with a Pally mt and my wizzy that is set up totally for damage (critical hits lines, brainstorm etc.) is in main group for one reason to keep agro on the tank. Usually start with debuff and immediately fire a guaranteed critical ice nova then every high damage spell in my arsenal. Can count on one hand the number of times that he has lost agro and its usually some mob with memory wipe like the sunchild. Duufuss lvl 70 pally Duffus lvl 70 wiz Everfrost __________________ Duubard lvl 90 Dirge Everfrost Duufuss lvl 80 Pally Everfrost Duffus lvl 80 Wiz Everfrost Duufus lvl 80 Brig Everfrost Duutru lvl 80 Troubador Everfrost Duudruid lvl 90 Warden Everfrost

05-26-2006, 01:58 AM	#16
BlackAdderDr Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 110	Well with the pally I grouped with alot I would jokingly ask to be punished(amends) for misbehaving(drawing agro). Bit of a running joke now between us. It is usually the first thing he does when I group with him. -Acelia 58 Wizard of Nektulos

05-26-2006, 09:14 AM	#17
MCG_DaMa Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 18	There are alot of Great suggestions here. I agree that use of the dumbfire pets is a no no in a raid as when they expire you get the hate, Group setup is a must but even when you dont quite have the right setup you still need to push the DPS I see so many wizards sit back and just play around with DPS afraid to get aggro however I also have a lvl 70 warden and I can tell you that DPS on a mob is key to helping keep the tank alive. A good wizard will draw aggro once in a wile that means they are doing their job trying to max DPS its just if you get aggro every time you may need to let up a bit. I also see some tanks resting on there hate generators in raids meaning they dont taunt enough or try hard enough to keep hate so you might want to keep an eye out for that too.

05-26-2006, 06:50 PM	#18
Fingle Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Najena Posts: 100	MCG_DaMa wrote: There are alot of Great suggestions here. I agree that use of the dumbfire pets is a no no in a raid as when they expire you get the hate, Group setup is a must but even when you dont quite have the right setup you still need to push the DPS I see so many wizards sit back and just play around with DPS afraid to get aggro however I also have a lvl 70 warden and I can tell you that DPS on a mob is key to helping keep the tank alive. A good wizard will draw aggro once in a wile that means they are doing their job trying to max DPS its just if you get aggro every time you may need to let up a bit. I also see some tanks resting on there hate generators in raids meaning they dont taunt enough or try hard enough to keep hate so you might want to keep an eye out for that too. Welll yes you get the hate when your dumbfire pet dies, you also get the hate when you fire of a nuke. Does this mean you will stop using them to?:smileytongue: __________________

05-27-2006, 04:57 PM	#19
BlackAdderDr Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 110	Yes but dumbfire versus nuke is apples and oranges here. I am not sure if this is true or not, but take for instance amends as the agro management tool. Your dumbfire pet generates agro outside the scope of amends and upon death it transfers the hate (sans amends) directly to you. This is speculation on my part and I am not sure if there is a way to test it, but seems very plausible given the game mechanics. There are other agro tools and whether these encompass dumbfire or not is unclear. I wonder if necros/conjurorers have insight on this. In a very nice pickup group we were running to the Roost and stopped to do Broog at my request. One group consisting of a Pally, Inquisitor, Fury, Warlock and myself. I had amends on me and was conservative till yellow then I really opened up. Didnt draw agro once and only one healer went oop during the fight. Notiuced the Pally's lack of power and mana fed him every chance I could. Much better experience, guildmates could not believe that I didnt draw agro ;P -Acelia 59.5 Wizard of Nektulosp.s. In a regular group the warlock/wizard combo for DPS is just stunning

05-28-2006, 01:24 AM	#20
ShreddedWhe General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 33	I raid regularly with my wizard and never have aggro issues. Like everyone has stated, start small, I always start with frost shield because its a good way to help the tank gain aggro...hits for 3-5K very quickly (master2). Then debuff, 48s dot, protoflame, more dots, incapacitate (long reuse timer), ball of lava, refresh any dots/frostshield, concussive ice nova, rince and repeat. If you have a good tank with master taunts, it shouldn't be an issue, especially if you have a pally or trouby in your grp.