SOE please make improvements to this significant nerf to the Wizard class!

[Cyri]

My first impressions:

 

What an awful update.....as an experienced ex EQ1, beta eq2 and lev 50 wizard...i feel screwed by this update.

 

It takes a significant time to kill a blue solo con.

 

My damage seems significantly less than it did before.

 

Therefore my character seems weaker and less exciting to play than before.

 

My dots have been nerfed.

 

My aoes are mediocre.

 

My utility spells have been messed around and my 3 very short buff's are pathetic, who wants to constantly recast 20 sec buffs.

 

My pump spells have been nerfed.

 

My canni spells have been nerfed.

 

My power consumption seems to be higher.

 

Combat seems jerky and there seens to be delays often before I cast spells.

 

I seem to have less DD selection than before because they have lined up spells on similar timers.

 

Immolation has been nerfed.

 

I haven't had a chance to test epic resists yet.

 

Does SOE hate wizards or other magic users?

 

I will re-post this post in a couple of posts, because I can only take the complete lack of response to a number of these issues that have been posted about recently to mean that no soe employee's seem interested in the wizard concerns.

 

[Darien al'Staff]

... Coming from someone who DID NOT play in beta.. My damage is ***ALOT*** higher as a 40 wiz.  *alot*

[123467]

Anybody checked the surge line and fiery grandeur line....LOL 18dmg at adept1 at level 50

 

This is just their little inhouse joke on us. They will probably rollback tomorrow...dont you think? I hope so.

[-MaiLMa]

sure i dont like all the changes but overall for wizards i like it cause im a DPS class now i do a ton more dmg i dont know what the original guy is smoking

[brow27]

The surge line causes you to get an extra 18-21 damage 4 TIMES PER SPELL that the proc goes off on.  Considering it procs for 25%, and lasts 30 seconds, you can get a decent boost for nothing.  Just cast it right before a fight.

[Silentsta]

I would have to agree with Mail Man, my damage at 50 is higher now then before revamp. Overall I have to say I like the changes.  I solo with ease, even takeing out blue conned group mobs with some scarey moments.  Love the Frost shield, roots working well.  IC has yet to land for under 3k.  Love the stun.  Firery Grandur does seem off, Icebound gift isnt bad at all.  I like to cast it, then PI, IC, IF.  Nice little added damage on the trio of spells.   In group aggro is not bad at all.  Ive taken it a couple times due to MT being stunned and unable to taunt.  Seems our damage shield adds hate to the tank, I cast that at the start of the fight.  Havent raided yet but so far so good on the resists.  All seems well from my point of view :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by Silentstalk on 09-13-2005 08:16 PM

[slippery]

Reality check, it seems like you do more damage because your spells hit harder. Your costs are up, your efficiency is down (Immolation was one of the most efficient spells we had and it does about 35% the damage now for the same power cost, just having it on my spell bar makes me want to cry that my wonderful master is toasted. I'm tempted to take it off because it is a waste of power and the time it takes to cast it). Our DoT's and debuffs are all but non existant, our ability to buff heat and cold resists went through the floor, we gained a personal evac that servers no purpose since it is on the same timer (unless of course you want to be an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] of a player and since you won't share debt screw your group and leave when things get ugly and let them die). Our stiffle doesn't appear to even stiffle anymore and just turned into the worst dot in the game.  We have a line replaced by something that is basically replacing the old BoF line as the primary casted nuke which isn't power efficient at all and just burns away. I've got a spell that constantly uses power to increase see invis (which doesn't matter) and grant fish vision (which doesn't work). I've got a spell that lets me see from another character (which albeit mildly entertaining is more likely to get you killed than anything else). Our AoE root got more useable in the recast, but it costs so much power and breaks so easily you can barely kill anything before running out of power. Great, we do better damage for a shorter time, how useful. I can't even effectively pump power to myself or my group anymore. So we  made a deal with the devil and gave him our soul along with our dots, debuffs, our efficient spells, most of our utility, to hit a little harder with 1 or 2 lines of spells.

[Silentsta]

Not to sure what you are fighting but you must be doing something wrong.  Our power pools have increased greatly, I soloed a blue 3 up arrow group mob and had 47% power left after it dropped.  The single evac spell is shorter cast time, for soloing, when you are.......alone.  Immolation took so long to cast before revamp I used it on named mobs/raids.  Now I use it on every mob.  Resist buffs still buff but thats not our goal in a group (ask around for what other classes get, we shouldnt be utility and dps, gotta pick one).  Power pump, are you serious, Id rather be nukeing myself.  As for roots, mine do hold good enough to get the job done.  You use RoC/Truss and your BI (stun with nice damage)  you /should/ be able to kill mobs before they even touch you.  Oh yeah, and our AoE's do more damage then before. 

Message Edited by Silentstalk on 09-13-2005 10:33 PM

[Deneteth]

At 29 I must admit I was surprised in the right way. Mana pool got boosted from 1300 to 1500, DD hit improved a bit (thanks in part yo Master 2 quality though), I noticed no broken spells (underwater vision does work for me). I agree on the defense side we lost a good deal and the 20 sec proc spell is pretty much useless in solo combat but since frozen manacle won't break early I have plenty of time to kill the critters.

I'll have to do the math for efficiency but so far I'd say it hasn't changed much given the extention of the mana pool.

The most disturbing thing is the change of content of some of our spell lines, some becoming DOT instead of DD as well as the common timer. But I suppose I'll get used to it.

[Jadr]

It scares me that some of you think you have higher DPS now. Our DPS was nerfed very hard indeed. In fact, everything we could do seems to have been Nerfed.

[Graffix_75]

---

Jadrax wrote:It scares me that some of you think you have higher DPS now. Our DPS was nerfed very hard indeed. In fact, everything we could do seems to have been Nerfed.

---

Huh?? Are you sure you're talking about the Wizard? I see a major DPS boost ! Very happy with the changes.

[blynchehaun]

< It scares me that some of you think you have higher DPS now. Our DPS was nerfed very hard indeed. > /[Removed for Content] You can't count, can you? Ball of flame Monday: 480-751 Ball of Flame Tuesday: 650-1228 Same Cast-time. Gee, I think DPS increased..... Chilling Wind Monday: small amount of damage Chilling Win Tuesday: 170-333 per tick, for 3 ticks over a 9 second period. *Including* casting times, that's a *massive* increase in DPS. Show me the magic numbers where my DPS was nerfed please?

[The_D]

I am not going to get into the good or bad update, as I have not made up my mind yet.

 

The DPS question is very much dependant on the level of the wizard. We are now even more powerful at certain points, but far less in other points of our careers.

 

For example: If you have BoFlames (3 but not Paralyze (44), you have seen a fair decrease due to the timers of BoFire and BoFlames being linked and Immolation (40) being nerfed to bits.

 

If you just got BoFire, you had a good bump in your main DD, especially if you take it as a training option at 24th.

 

A secondary effect is the amount of INT you have. There are other good posts on that topic. Go to the merchant and get some INT gear. Ignore if things are green / white / orange / or even gray, focus on the amount of int they provide. Splitpaw and DoF has added some gear with high INT, but otherwise crap in the way of resists. For daily grouping this may good to use a piece or two in key slots.

 

Nigella

 

[Ashfire]

Not trying to rant, but you think just because the numbers are higher it means that we are more efficient dps?  Sure, we have had a dps boost, because on paper, we do more dps than before.  However, mobs have had adjustments as well, which means techincally, the speed in killing said mob isn't the same as before.

 

In a group, the necro was getting 50-100 dps higher then me every single encounter.  The occassional times I was on top, I beat him from literally .1-20.0 dps.  But on the scale of efficiency, he was out dpsing me totally.

 

Hell, even the beserker beat me a few times.

 

I use to be able to cast piercing icicles, and ice comet, and the mob would be dead just like that.  Doesn't work that way anymore.

 

But whatever.  I'm judging this at a level 50 perspective.  Perhaps at level 60 wizards will be at top again with the newer and obviously more improved spells and additions.  I played with a warlock since level 30, and depending on what level we were at and what new spell we learned, we shifted from out dpsing each other every other major spell upgrade.

 

Only time will tell.

[blynchehaun]

< more efficient dps > You're not making sense. You can have higher DPS or lower DPS. You can have efficient power-usage, or inefficient power usage. If you're calculating DPS, power-cost doesn't factor in. Damage per Second. No power mentioned there. Personally, I don't really give a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about the efficiency. I have power, I kill stuff, I don't have power, I don't kill stuff. Getting knocked down to 20% health and mana, I have to wait maybe 30-60 seconds to regain full mana and health. That's more than sufficient time to find a new safe spot to kill from and line up my next kill. < But on the scale of efficiency, he was out dpsing me totally. > Oh for the love of...... Power cost does not affect DPS. Damage per Second. Efficiency neither increases nor decreases your DPS.

[blynchehaun]

< For example: If you have BoFlames (3 but not Paralyze (44), you have seen a fair decrease due to the timers of BoFire and BoFlames being linked and Immolation (40) being nerfed to bits. > Actually, I'm lvl 37 (you get BoFlames at 37). I have seen a fair increase in my DPS. Ice Flames and Plasmatic Strike are your friends. Given the damage it's throwing out, I'm happily dropping Chilling Wind (Master 2) on *every* target, solo or group. With a single target, it's hittin for 510-1000 over 9 seconds. It affects up to 5 targets. *In*sane.... 

[Jadr]

I spent about 5 hours playing around with different casting patterns last night. All done on singlke down arrow sharks in EF. Ice Comet fine, almost kills a shark, if you add some dot. Absolutly the same as pre the balance. Then you have to kill a second shark in ice comet's refresh. Prior to patch, Immolation, Ball of flames, Ball of fire, Ice Spike would kill one. Now both balls are linked, Immolation is nerfed. I was using something like, apply 4 dots, ball, Ice Flame, Flamne Strike, and that would reduce it to about half health. At which point you hit spell refresh issues. (While it's beating down upon you.) Thats a big simple mesurable change in DPS right there, mobs that took 4 spells to kill now take over quadruple that.

[blynchehaun]

Given that you can *still* cast Ball of Flame and Ice Flame, and Freezing Wind will do close to 1000 damage on a single target, why is it taking you 13 more spells to kill the creature? Plasmatic Pulse is now a decent nuke, doing about the same as Ice Flame. Breath of the Tyrant does reasonable damge with a fairly hard-hitting DoT on top of that. What are you doing that's so horribly wrong? Ice Comet does roughly 4k right? Ball of Flames does about 1k for me, Freezing Wind (over 9 seconds) will do about 750 or so. Ice Flame is 500. Plasmatic Pulse is 500. Chill Shield (I assume you're in melee) will do about 600 over 3 hits. Breath of the Tyrant will do about 500 (I think) over the duration of it's DoT. That's about 3.8k right there, not counting resists. You're telling me that a lvl 50 Wizard can't match the damage output of a lvl 37 Wizard? 1 word, two syllables, first word: bull......

[Jadr]

Go try it.

[Glynba]

Freezing wind is only doing the high end damage if you took the MasterII though right? AFAIK AOE is not confined to

the group your targetting anymore so I went a different route.

 

If you ask me its swings and roundabouts. My impression is dps is slightly down. Ball of Flame is a decent nuke at last but the DoT nerfs counter that. The damage on Paralyse is a big help though.

 

I am a bit sad about the mana conversion nerfs. I specialised in that before and there were a few long fights where it came through for the healers at the end which was very satisfying. I miss the unbreakable root as well, made groups easier, but I guess that's the point of that nerf =)

[blynchehaun]

< Freezing wind is only doing the high end damage if you took the MasterII though right? > Yup, but it was doing decent damage at Adept 1 as well. < AFAIK AOE is not confined to the group your targetting anymore so I went a different route. > Nope. You need to reread your spell descriptions. X Wind Damages the encounter, as does Pulsing Scorch (or whatever it's called now. Was Scorching Pulse) Pyre and Conflagaration are proper Area spells, and will hit outside the Encounter. Found that out the hard way. < but the DoT nerfs counter that. > Nah. The only DoTs worth using at lvl 37 were Heat Stroke (for the Stifle) and Icy Coil. Incinerate did too little damage. Freezing Wind does more damage than all of those combined, pre-patch. < I am a bit sad about the mana conversion nerfs. > No arguement on that. I'd like to see them increased a bit.

[blynchehaun]

< Go try it. > Go try what? Go try to do "Ball of Flames does about 1k for me, Freezing Wind (over 9 seconds) will do about 750 or so. Ice Flame is 500. Plasmatic Pulse is 500. Chill Shield (I assume you're in melee) will do about 600 over 3 hits. Breath of the Tyrant will do about 500 (I think) over the duration of it's DoT." ? I've done that. Are you actually saying that you, as a lvl 50 Wizard cannot match the Above damage output of a lvl 37 Wizard with a crappy 109 for Int? Here's where you put up, or shut up: post logs. Go get into the fight you described already, and log the combat. Forget parsing it. Just post the raw log of the fight, and show the world that a 50th lvl Wizard is crap compared to a lvl 37. Without logs, you're just talking crap. (and I'm more than happy to post a log once I get home this evening, if needed)

[Glynba]

You're forgetting Immolation ..

[Ennis]

Dunno... I am happy with it so far. Spent 6 hours in Tombs of the Lost fighting either level 55 ^^^group mobs  or grouped 3-6 level 55 mobs with the occasional level 57 thrown in. Was very nice to see the mob either die or in the case of the ^^^ mob lose a bub or two of life to Ice Comet. Max hit I saw was 5543 out of that, max out of Ball of Flames was in the 1200's, Flamestrike in the 400-600 range. We mowed down alot of mobs last night, got to the point we were chain pulling. BTW Frostshield rocks, make sure you have it on your tank.

Message Edited by Ennis on 09-14-2005 09:28 AM

[Silentsta]

I agree Ennis, group I was in were mowing down 57^^^ group mobs (Pillars of Flame).  It wasnt full either, 50 wizard, 50 fury, 50 Guardian, 48 Pally.  I love forstshield as well, very nice damage shield.  Oh, and if you know a fury, OMG get them in your group.  They will be your best friends :smileyvery-happy:

[Darien al'Staff]

Ok...Both sides SHUT UP and start parsing NUMBERS I don't give a crap how many spells it takes to kill mobs.  WHY?  Because mobs RESISTS and HP were **CHANGED**.  You're changing too many variables.  Go do some test parses of damage.  Do it in comparison to other players...do it on various mobs....and then compare it to prior.  Quit this unfounded [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing and get some numbers.  The **ONLY** way we get things done is if we get something with more substance.

[Redorin]

If you cant kill something without Ice Comet then you have to change your strategies...its that simple.

 

Its not the game thats causing the low dps its the player.

[Isengrim]

---

Redorin wrote:

If you cant kill something without Ice Comet then you have to change your strategies...its that simple.

 

Its not the game thats causing the low dps its the player.

---

Wow that is so true.  If you try Ice Comet 3 or 4 times and get all resists, quit hitting it.  I had no problem at all killing blue ^ solo mobs.  If anything, it may be too easy still.  Just my opinion. 

[Darien al'Staff]

Personally?  as a 41 wizard, I'm having **NO** trouble soloing YELLOW solo mobs.

[Rhavin1]

My few observations so far, are that our power consumption seems to have sky rocketed. I chose at least 2 of the training options to give 5 ticks in-combat power regen, so theoretically that is 10 ticks. I have the Invoker, plus GEB's, that's another 12 ticks. Personally I have not seen 22 ticks of mana regen, and run OOP easily now. I *thought* I had read somewhere that they were supposed to adjust our power costs down, so that our power usage would be better. I have not seen this at all.

Since they have taken away and put some of the harvests on the same timer, not to mention that they are now a waste of casting time, we really have very little in the way of harvesting HP for power. Vitalic Harvest used to provide a couple hundred, now it something like 14? Why bother to regen 14 points of mana and be stunned for the duration?

No, I did not take any notes on numbers, so they may be off somewhat, but you get the point.

Invis now seems to slow you down more than previously - I may be wrong there, but it sure seemed like it was.
I think the change to Heat Stroke is pathetic and not even worth using. Before the changes, when it was able to stifle, it was a great spell.
There are many other changes to our spell lines that I personally do not like, and some I do like.

Sure, our power pools have increased, but power costs of casting the spells has definitely not made our consumption more economical.
Some of the other changes to damage of our spells have been nice, but all in all there are still way too many things that need to be "tweaked" IMO.

These are my opinions and I'm not really worried if you agree or not.