Best DD's? Wiz or Warlock?

Xtremeeeee · 04-06-2005, 05:19 PM

Who has the highest hitting DD in the game?

What is more effective against high level nameds, a high hitting DD or a high hitting DoT?

How many mobs are totally immune to ice, and who are they?

Thanks =)

Raminicus · 04-06-2005, 06:07 PM

Oddly enough, monks and bruisers top the charts for highest magical hit across the board, followed by a few guardians/bezerkers/assassins.

Down around number 20-25 on any top 100 list you'll start to see Wizards. Warlocks don't show up on the chart until around number 40.

If it's between Wizards and Warlocks, Wizards hit for higher burst damage, but Warlocks right now can do much more damage than Wizards in a long multiple mob encounter. This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach.

Wizard's lvl 50 Direct Damage Nuke, Ice Comet, does upwards of 3500 damage (I think).

Warlock's last Direct Damage nuke is lvl 37 Nil Distortion, which only rarely hits above 2000 damage.

Xtremeeeee · 04-06-2005, 07:08 PM

Okay thanks.

Fendaria · 04-06-2005, 08:20 PM

Raminicus wrote:
If it's between Wizards and Warlocks, Wizards hit for higher burst damage, but Warlocks right now can do much more damage than Wizards in a long multiple mob encounter. This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach.

Wizard's lvl 50 Direct Damage Nuke, Ice Comet, does upwards of 3500 damage (I think).

Warlock's last Direct Damage nuke is lvl 37 Nil Distortion, which only rarely hits above 2000 damage.

It is only at lv 50 that Wizards will have a nuke that hits harder than the Warlocks best nuke does. Before level 50 a Warlocks's nukes will be hitting harder than a Wizard's. Fendaria

Nitefl · 04-06-2005, 08:39 PM

Aye, but our Immolation hits hard and fast :smileyhappy: at lvl39 we get a dot that ticks 4 times, once every 1-2 seconds for around 400-700 damage, rivaling the Nil spell warlocks get at that lvl.

Onion · 04-07-2005, 12:17 AM

I hate the people that pick the class that hits the hardest.... Note, those are normally at lvl50 and just because a class hits hard one time does not mean anything. I still personally feel that classes like warlocks and wizards dont have the highest DD hit, if you look on eq2players.com, however, we di .5 or sometimes as low as .3 of the lowest hit on the server... but we do it every 45sec with ice comet, plus wizards have the DoT and other DD's to back up their DPS. Where as the hardest hitters only use their special DD, that one thats tacked about, for a very long duration between casts. Pick the class not by what has the hardest hit, but what class you want to be. Thats almost as superficial as someone can get...

Raminicus · 04-07-2005, 01:18 AM

Fendaria wrote:

Raminicus wrote:

If it's between Wizards and Warlocks, Wizards hit for higher burst damage, but Warlocks right now can do much more damage than Wizards in a long multiple mob encounter. This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach.

Wizard's lvl 50 Direct Damage Nuke, Ice Comet, does upwards of 3500 damage (I think).

Warlock's last Direct Damage nuke is lvl 37 Nil Distortion, which only rarely hits above 2000 damage.

It is only at lv 50 that Wizards will have a nuke that hits harder than the Warlocks best nuke does. Before level 50 a Warlocks's nukes will be hitting harder than a Wizard's.

Fendaria

Yeah that's what i said. Notice the use of the phrase "lvl 50" in my original post. I didn't come into this thread to argue about what's fair or not, but simply to answer the dude's question.

Xtremeeeee · 04-08-2005, 03:25 PM

I have heard rumors about mobs being immune to some Ice attacks? What mobs are these and are there a lot of them? Also when you say immune do you mean it will never hit them or just rarely? Thanks.

Sokolov · 04-08-2005, 05:29 PM

Raminicus wrote:
This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach.

I would have to disagree with this.

I am not level 50 (40 right now), but my main source of damage is DD, not AE or DoT. Granted, I can do nicely with AEs, but I can do just as much DPS generally with DDs. AEs are more of a "fun" option. As for DoTs, my two main DoTs are really debuffs, my other DoT is a 10.7 second stun, which I'd use even without the DoT component. The last DoT, Dark Emanations, at Master 1 costs as just much power as a nuke from half a tier ago, but does less damage overall, with a 4 second cast time to boot (most nukes are at 2).

So normally on a single target I throw on my 2 dot/debuffs (one of which is a Tier 2 Sorcerer spell - Freezing Whorl) and then I DD most of the battle.

On multiples, I usually open with a couple of my best single target nukes and then proceed to AE and redo the DD as they pop.

Both Sorcerer subclasses use DD as their primary damage source, as far as I can tell up to my level.

I do know about Devestation and Ice Comet, but isn't that just one spell at our LAST level? Seems to me it's pretty misleading to tell a new player to choose Warlock for DoTs when it's really not true for most of the 50 levels.

And it's Summoners who are the DoT branch of the Mage Archtype.

Raminicus · 04-08-2005, 05:56 PM

Sokolov wrote:

Raminicus wrote:
This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach.

I would have to disagree with this.

I am not level 50 (40 right now), but my main source of damage is DD, not AE or DoT. Granted, I can do nicely with AEs, but I can do just as much DPS generally with DDs. AEs are more of a "fun" option. As for DoTs, my two main DoTs are really debuffs, my other DoT is a 10.7 second stun, which I'd use even without the DoT component. The last DoT, Dark Emanations, at Master 1 costs as just much power as a nuke from half a tier ago, but does less damage overall, with a 4 second cast time to boot (most nukes are at 2).

So normally on a single target I throw on my 2 dot/debuffs (one of which is a Tier 2 Sorcerer spell - Freezing Whorl) and then I DD most of the battle.

On multiples, I usually open with a couple of my best single target nukes and then proceed to AE and redo the DD as they pop.

Both Sorcerer subclasses use DD as their primary damage source, as far as I can tell up to my level.

I do know about Devestation and Ice Comet, but isn't that just one spell at our LAST level? Seems to me it's pretty misleading to tell a new player to choose Warlock for DoTs when it's really not true for most of the 50 levels.

And it's Summoners who are the DoT branch of the Mage Archtype.

You're right, I was speaking about endgame. I am not lvl 50 either and, just like you, my main source of damage comes from direct nukes. However, the majority of players will most likely play the majority of their time at lvl 50 or higher, so why not tell them what it's going to be like? Relying mainly on nukes up until level 50 is fine, it's what we all do, but our style drastically changes after Devastation. I should have been more clear, sorry.

CrimsonAveng · 04-08-2005, 07:04 PM

However, the majority of players will most likely play the majority of their time at lvl 50 or higher, so why not tell them what it's going to be like?

__________________________________________________ ____________________________

I dont know about this. I'm not a hardcore player, but I'm more than a casual player. I'm not a power leveler, but I play about an average of 3-4 hours a day. I've played since a week after release and I'm still only level 42. It'll be another month (I hope) before I reach level 50. So by that time I will have played for a total of 6 months mostly with one character.

How long does the average person play a MMPORG before they move on to the next big thing? Maybe a year? That's been my history and the history of many I've talked to. Sure, some stay longer and some less, but I'd have to say the average is probably somewhere around a year.

So that means the average player IF: they stick with mainly one character that they start with and dont reroll or make too many alts, they will play maybe half their time at level 50. In fact, I'd say proably less. I mean, really, is there always gonna be a group of lvl 50 raids going on everytime you log on that you can participate in? No. Many level 50s start playing alts and raid part time. And the fact is, that even after 5 months there still aren't too many lvl 50s around and I play on AB one of the largest servers.

So I'd venture to say that most players who 1) reroll 2) make alts 3) play on several servers will spend the majority of their playing time in the 25-40 level range. I know that's where mine has been.

Not a flame, I just disagree a tad about this point. Sure people want to know about lvl 50, but how many actually get there? I'd say not many. The people who are most likely to burn out IMO would be the power levelers who dont do quests or mentor or do mixed guild events, all the fun events dont level you much but add to the experience.

I'm sure I coulda made level 50 in less time (if I didnt use an alt when my vitality ran out, if I didn't mentor a friend 10 levels lower who was trying to catch up, if a didnt participate in weekly guild events) but Im quite sure I'd be burned out and OMW to the "next big thing" in MMPORG.

So what to tell this guy? Shoot, I dont know.

Warlocks do more DPS from 23-39 but have no utility.

Wizards have more utility. With the apparent lack of scouts on lately, that evac is invaluable. And with drink being so expensive and ppl not buying it being a mana battery for that penny pinching healer or tank is invaluable also.

And the latest tidbit, it seems after live 6, that wizzies and warlocks are screwed in raids with the mob dot mitigation.

Raminicus · 04-08-2005, 08:50 PM

That's cool, you make some valid points. Let me further break down my reasoning for saying the majority of a character's in-game life will be lvl 50 or higher.

-EQ1 was around for 4-6 years (i didn't play it so am fuzzy on exact numbers). While most of the players currently there weren't there in the beginning (I'm assuming), it remains a high-level game (I've heard).

-More and more expansions loom on the horizon. Each expansion will most likely have things for the endgame, bringing the level 50 characters out of alt-mode, if only briefly.

-EQ2's devs have repeatedly said that they have plans to implement more levels past level 50. This will intice lvl 50 players to keep playing their toon in order to stock up wealth/gear for when those levels come out. Also, once they DO come out, it will encourage people to stay longer than your projected year.

-EQ2 recently got rid of quests graying out. This means that even a lvl 50 character can do quests and see content they skipped over (the weakest of my points).

Hiei_1 · 04-09-2005, 05:25 AM

That's cool, you make some valid points. Let me further break down my reasoning for saying the majority of a character's in-game life will be lvl 50 or higher.

----------

EQ1 was around for 4-6 years (i didn't play it so am fuzzy on exact numbers). While most of the players currently there weren't there in the beginning (I'm assuming), it remains a high-level game (I've heard).

It's hard to compare eq1 into the picture because a good guild could powerlevel you to 50+ in no time.

I'd say comparing with eq2 though this statement doesn't support your arguement. Few players have the time or desire to play for 4-6 years. Things come up that bump eq2 down or off the priority list. You leave, your account gets deleted, you come back, you start over. Besides, after doing all the high level raids a couple times, where's the fun. Sure, the drops are great but what do you use them for anyways. The whole point of having a high level toon is so you can twink out your alts and have fun playing them.

------------------

-More and more expansions loom on the horizon. Each expansion will most likely have things for the endgame, bringing the level 50 characters out of alt-mode, if only briefly.

This attacks your original arguement rather than supporting it. Each expansion will have things endgame, will bring lvl 50 players back shortly. After the lvl 50 char has gotten his fill of the new expansion he will return to his alts and play them until the next big thing comes out. This adds more time to alts while only adding a little playing time to main tipping the scales closer to the theory that players will spend more time at midlevels than topped out.

----------------

-EQ2's devs have repeatedly said that they have plans to implement more levels past level 50. This will intice lvl 50 players to keep playing their toon in order to stock up wealth/gear for when those levels come out. Also, once they DO come out, it will encourage people to stay longer than your projected year.

The Dev's aren't in any rush to go past lvl 50. Of course they're letting hints out about it, just like the hints of pvp on the horizon, just so they can get us drooling. Truth is that they're having a hard enough time just getting all the spells working and getting all the classes balanced for the first 50 levels. They got a long way to go before they can introduce another 5 - 10 character levels without it ending up in disaster. As far as stocking up wealth/gear waiting for the expansion to come out......why? With the new expansion and new character levels, a whole new tier of goods will come out. All the Gear that you have saved up that is tier 5 will be obselete when the gear 6 comes out. Why would you have to save up wealth? You've said that you've stuck around so far being a lvl 50 character who likes to do quests and raid. Why would you let other people raid all the new cool gear and you sit back and buy it off them with all the plat you've saved up? Go out and raid the gear yourself. Complete the quests, retwink your lvl 50 toon, make some more money, then go back to playing your 5 other alts SMILEY

-EQ2 recently got rid of quests graying out. This means that even a lvl 50 character can do quests and see content they skipped over (the weakest of my points).

In regards to recent changes causing low level quests to never grey out, Players that are level 50 are either 1. Doing as you said and going back to complete all the quests they missed. This is very time consuming, 90pct or more soloable, and of almost zero challenge and fun. It boosts your total number of quests completely, but probably quickens the burn out process. 2. Creating alt's to come up through the ranks and focus on doing quests this time while they're challenging. Alot are doing this, this is the most fun way. 3. Complaining on the boards about lack of high end content. I don't know if it's the true majority, but its pretty much all you hear on the boards.

PS, not a flaming post. Just throwing in another point of view since this is a good discussion.

Onion · 04-09-2005, 08:46 AM

A month to get from 42 to 50... Hah... Any only 3-4 hours a day... Hah.

That wont happen.

Xtremeeeee · 04-09-2005, 03:11 PM

So erm yeah... back to the point of this thread...............

I have heard that lots of high level mobs and nameds are immune to ice attacks. When you say immune do you mean ice will never hit them? or that it just gets resisted a lot of the time? Also how many mobsnameds are immune to ice? and are they high level?

Nibiuno · 04-11-2005, 02:41 AM

Immune as in ice will never hit them. No resist check, just a message saying your spell went off and that's it. The majority of the end game raid encounters are immune to ice. Not too many named are immune to ice, but just about anything under the water will be; check out Undertow in Everfrost for one of the first ones you'll encounter I can think of.

Effulgen · 04-11-2005, 02:52 PM

I havent bothered to read the thread but i will answer the topic creator. Adept III Ice comet for wizard does 3500 dmg to a single target, and Adept III Nil Distortion does 2000 dmg to a single target for warlocks. However, warlocks have a lvl50 spell like Ice comet that ticks 600dmg 4 times on up to 5 mobs called Devastation, which results in over 12,000 dmg in a single spell, or just 2400 to a single mob. Ice Comet and Devastation are both on a 45 second recast timer, while Nil Distortion is on a 15 second recast timer. So, in the end, Warlocks have a 2500dmg aoe, and a 2000dmg nuke that you can cast 3 times in that period. ,If you want DPS, right now you should go warlock, but it is hard to see the future as any patch could render one class infinitely more powerful than the other. Pick what you like, and in the end you probably wont regret it. There will be down times but there will also be up times. Remember that Wizards outdamaged Warlocks for the first several months of the game.

Lady Uaelr · 04-11-2005, 09:33 PM

Those figures are shocking.

How much more powerful were wizards before?

Did wizards get nerfed or did warlocks get improved just wondering.

Warlocks= great dps, great for raids

Wizards= fun in groups, does not sound good in raids.

Renynz · 04-13-2005, 07:41 AM

Warlocks and Wizards both got improved. Currently Warlocks do tend to do more damage, especially in regards to AE. Warlocks also have a ace in the hole regarding their resist base: Warlocks do not have as many resist issues as wizards. I haven't done any end-game content yet, but considering the sheer volume of posts regarding the topic, Ice Comet is about useless on most raids as raid mobs are frequently Ice immune (or heavily resistant). That being said though, SOE loves to play ping-pong with class balance. So the class you choose today could suck by comparison tommorow. Hmm. Actually, when enough people stop playing wizards SOE will probably fix them, so maybe you should pick a Warlock for the rest of us SMILEY

Raminicus · 04-13-2005, 06:00 PM

Renynzea wrote:
Warlocks and Wizards both got improved. Currently Warlocks do tend to do more damage, especially in regards to AE. Warlocks also have a ace in the hole regarding their resist base: Warlocks do not have as many resist issues as wizards. I haven't done any end-game content yet, but considering the sheer volume of posts regarding the topic, Ice Comet is about useless on most raids as raid mobs are frequently Ice immune (or heavily resistant).

That being said though, SOE loves to play ping-pong with class balance. So the class you choose today could suck by comparison tommorow.

Hmm. Actually, when enough people stop playing wizards SOE will probably fix them, so maybe you should pick a Warlock for the rest of us

It's already starting to change. In the last patch SOE hit both wizards and warlocks with higher mob resists. I think Wizards still get the raw end of the stick when it comes to spells being resisted, but it's much closer between the two classes than it was. Not only are they resisting more, but it seems their mitigation to poison/disease got increased as well. Warlocks aren't hitting nearly as hard as we used to. Unfortunately, I think Wizards also got nailed with this change.

CrimsonAveng · 04-13-2005, 06:36 PM

Who hoo, Im a 1 star bandit. Bah.

Onions- wrote:

A month to get from 42 to 50... Hah... Any only 3-4 hours a day... Hah.

That wont happen.

I got 1 word for you, vitality. When some is left anything is possible. 4 weeks = 400% vitality. 100% vitality as far as I can figure is a little over a level, maybe 1.25 or 1.33? Thats 6 lvls worth of vitality. 43+6=49. And if I'm that close Ill do the rest w/o vitality.

I can dual groups of lizardmen in Ferrott or the rats in RV for about 10% an hour. Certainly doable. Will I? If I don't I'll be close SMILEY

04-06-2005, 06:07 PM	#2
Raminicus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	Oddly enough, monks and bruisers top the charts for highest magical hit across the board, followed by a few guardians/bezerkers/assassins. Down around number 20-25 on any top 100 list you'll start to see Wizards. Warlocks don't show up on the chart until around number 40. If it's between Wizards and Warlocks, Wizards hit for higher burst damage, but Warlocks right now can do much more damage than Wizards in a long multiple mob encounter. This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach. Wizard's lvl 50 Direct Damage Nuke, Ice Comet, does upwards of 3500 damage (I think). Warlock's last Direct Damage nuke is lvl 37 Nil Distortion, which only rarely hits above 2000 damage. __________________ ================================ Proud new member of the Blackhawks Guild Colindo Ailaendroria, Warlock of Qeynos Naelin Anduial, Ranger of Qeynos Rilvayne, ShadowKnight of Freeport Krroog, Berzerker of Freeport ================================

04-06-2005, 08:20 PM	#4
Fendaria Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 296	Raminicus wrote: If it's between Wizards and Warlocks, Wizards hit for higher burst damage, but Warlocks right now can do much more damage than Wizards in a long multiple mob encounter. This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach. Wizard's lvl 50 Direct Damage Nuke, Ice Comet, does upwards of 3500 damage (I think). Warlock's last Direct Damage nuke is lvl 37 Nil Distortion, which only rarely hits above 2000 damage. It is only at lv 50 that Wizards will have a nuke that hits harder than the Warlocks best nuke does. Before level 50 a Warlocks's nukes will be hitting harder than a Wizard's. Fendaria

04-06-2005, 08:39 PM	#5
Nitefl Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Aye, but our Immolation hits hard and fast :smileyhappy: at lvl39 we get a dot that ticks 4 times, once every 1-2 seconds for around 400-700 damage, rivaling the Nil spell warlocks get at that lvl. __________________

04-07-2005, 01:18 AM	#7
Raminicus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	Fendaria wrote: Raminicus wrote: If it's between Wizards and Warlocks, Wizards hit for higher burst damage, but Warlocks right now can do much more damage than Wizards in a long multiple mob encounter. This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach. Wizard's lvl 50 Direct Damage Nuke, Ice Comet, does upwards of 3500 damage (I think). Warlock's last Direct Damage nuke is lvl 37 Nil Distortion, which only rarely hits above 2000 damage. It is only at lv 50 that Wizards will have a nuke that hits harder than the Warlocks best nuke does. Before level 50 a Warlocks's nukes will be hitting harder than a Wizard's. Fendaria Yeah that's what i said. Notice the use of the phrase "lvl 50" in my original post. I didn't come into this thread to argue about what's fair or not, but simply to answer the dude's question. __________________ ================================ Proud new member of the Blackhawks Guild Colindo Ailaendroria, Warlock of Qeynos Naelin Anduial, Ranger of Qeynos Rilvayne, ShadowKnight of Freeport Krroog, Berzerker of Freeport ================================

04-08-2005, 05:29 PM	#9
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Raminicus wrote: This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach. I would have to disagree with this. I am not level 50 (40 right now), but my main source of damage is DD, not AE or DoT. Granted, I can do nicely with AEs, but I can do just as much DPS generally with DDs. AEs are more of a "fun" option. As for DoTs, my two main DoTs are really debuffs, my other DoT is a 10.7 second stun, which I'd use even without the DoT component. The last DoT, Dark Emanations, at Master 1 costs as just much power as a nuke from half a tier ago, but does less damage overall, with a 4 second cast time to boot (most nukes are at 2). So normally on a single target I throw on my 2 dot/debuffs (one of which is a Tier 2 Sorcerer spell - Freezing Whorl) and then I DD most of the battle. On multiples, I usually open with a couple of my best single target nukes and then proceed to AE and redo the DD as they pop. Both Sorcerer subclasses use DD as their primary damage source, as far as I can tell up to my level. I do know about Devestation and Ice Comet, but isn't that just one spell at our LAST level? Seems to me it's pretty misleading to tell a new player to choose Warlock for DoTs when it's really not true for most of the 50 levels. And it's Summoners who are the DoT branch of the Mage Archtype. __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

04-06-2005, 05:19 PM	#1
Xtremeeeee Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	Who has the highest hitting DD in the game? What is more effective against high level nameds, a high hitting DD or a high hitting DoT? How many mobs are totally immune to ice, and who are they? Thanks =)

04-06-2005, 07:08 PM	#3
Xtremeeeee Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	Okay thanks.

04-07-2005, 12:17 AM	#6
Onion Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 57	I hate the people that pick the class that hits the hardest.... Note, those are normally at lvl50 and just because a class hits hard one time does not mean anything. I still personally feel that classes like warlocks and wizards dont have the highest DD hit, if you look on eq2players.com, however, we di .5 or sometimes as low as .3 of the lowest hit on the server... but we do it every 45sec with ice comet, plus wizards have the DoT and other DD's to back up their DPS. Where as the hardest hitters only use their special DD, that one thats tacked about, for a very long duration between casts. Pick the class not by what has the hardest hit, but what class you want to be. Thats almost as superficial as someone can get...

04-08-2005, 03:25 PM	#8
Xtremeeeee Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	I have heard rumors about mobs being immune to some Ice attacks? What mobs are these and are there a lot of them? Also when you say immune do you mean it will never hit them or just rarely? Thanks.

04-08-2005, 05:56 PM	#10
Raminicus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	Sokolov wrote: Raminicus wrote: This is because of better power consumption rates and because Warlocks have more of a AOE/DOT method of nuking, whereas Wizards have more of a Direct Damage, single target approach. I would have to disagree with this. I am not level 50 (40 right now), but my main source of damage is DD, not AE or DoT. Granted, I can do nicely with AEs, but I can do just as much DPS generally with DDs. AEs are more of a "fun" option. As for DoTs, my two main DoTs are really debuffs, my other DoT is a 10.7 second stun, which I'd use even without the DoT component. The last DoT, Dark Emanations, at Master 1 costs as just much power as a nuke from half a tier ago, but does less damage overall, with a 4 second cast time to boot (most nukes are at 2). So normally on a single target I throw on my 2 dot/debuffs (one of which is a Tier 2 Sorcerer spell - Freezing Whorl) and then I DD most of the battle. On multiples, I usually open with a couple of my best single target nukes and then proceed to AE and redo the DD as they pop. Both Sorcerer subclasses use DD as their primary damage source, as far as I can tell up to my level. I do know about Devestation and Ice Comet, but isn't that just one spell at our LAST level? Seems to me it's pretty misleading to tell a new player to choose Warlock for DoTs when it's really not true for most of the 50 levels. And it's Summoners who are the DoT branch of the Mage Archtype. You're right, I was speaking about endgame. I am not lvl 50 either and, just like you, my main source of damage comes from direct nukes. However, the majority of players will most likely play the majority of their time at lvl 50 or higher, so why not tell them what it's going to be like? Relying mainly on nukes up until level 50 is fine, it's what we all do, but our style drastically changes after Devastation. I should have been more clear, sorry. __________________ ================================ Proud new member of the Blackhawks Guild Colindo Ailaendroria, Warlock of Qeynos Naelin Anduial, Ranger of Qeynos Rilvayne, ShadowKnight of Freeport Krroog, Berzerker of Freeport ================================

04-08-2005, 07:04 PM	#11
CrimsonAveng Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 103	However, the majority of players will most likely play the majority of their time at lvl 50 or higher, so why not tell them what it's going to be like? __________________________________________________ ____________________________ I dont know about this. I'm not a hardcore player, but I'm more than a casual player. I'm not a power leveler, but I play about an average of 3-4 hours a day. I've played since a week after release and I'm still only level 42. It'll be another month (I hope) before I reach level 50. So by that time I will have played for a total of 6 months mostly with one character. How long does the average person play a MMPORG before they move on to the next big thing? Maybe a year? That's been my history and the history of many I've talked to. Sure, some stay longer and some less, but I'd have to say the average is probably somewhere around a year. So that means the average player IF: they stick with mainly one character that they start with and dont reroll or make too many alts, they will play maybe half their time at level 50. In fact, I'd say proably less. I mean, really, is there always gonna be a group of lvl 50 raids going on everytime you log on that you can participate in? No. Many level 50s start playing alts and raid part time. And the fact is, that even after 5 months there still aren't too many lvl 50s around and I play on AB one of the largest servers. So I'd venture to say that most players who 1) reroll 2) make alts 3) play on several servers will spend the majority of their playing time in the 25-40 level range. I know that's where mine has been. Not a flame, I just disagree a tad about this point. Sure people want to know about lvl 50, but how many actually get there? I'd say not many. The people who are most likely to burn out IMO would be the power levelers who dont do quests or mentor or do mixed guild events, all the fun events dont level you much but add to the experience. I'm sure I coulda made level 50 in less time (if I didnt use an alt when my vitality ran out, if I didn't mentor a friend 10 levels lower who was trying to catch up, if a didnt participate in weekly guild events) but Im quite sure I'd be burned out and OMW to the "next big thing" in MMPORG. So what to tell this guy? Shoot, I dont know. Warlocks do more DPS from 23-39 but have no utility. Wizards have more utility. With the apparent lack of scouts on lately, that evac is invaluable. And with drink being so expensive and ppl not buying it being a mana battery for that penny pinching healer or tank is invaluable also. And the latest tidbit, it seems after live 6, that wizzies and warlocks are screwed in raids with the mob dot mitigation. __________________ Swampbane: 60 Warlock/60 Jeweler Matador: 62 Defiler/ 60 Provisioner Lexnar: 59 Bruiser/60 Alchemist "Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

04-08-2005, 08:50 PM	#12
Raminicus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	That's cool, you make some valid points. Let me further break down my reasoning for saying the majority of a character's in-game life will be lvl 50 or higher. -EQ1 was around for 4-6 years (i didn't play it so am fuzzy on exact numbers). While most of the players currently there weren't there in the beginning (I'm assuming), it remains a high-level game (I've heard). -More and more expansions loom on the horizon. Each expansion will most likely have things for the endgame, bringing the level 50 characters out of alt-mode, if only briefly. -EQ2's devs have repeatedly said that they have plans to implement more levels past level 50. This will intice lvl 50 players to keep playing their toon in order to stock up wealth/gear for when those levels come out. Also, once they DO come out, it will encourage people to stay longer than your projected year. -EQ2 recently got rid of quests graying out. This means that even a lvl 50 character can do quests and see content they skipped over (the weakest of my points). __________________ ================================ Proud new member of the Blackhawks Guild Colindo Ailaendroria, Warlock of Qeynos Naelin Anduial, Ranger of Qeynos Rilvayne, ShadowKnight of Freeport Krroog, Berzerker of Freeport ================================

04-09-2005, 05:25 AM	#13
Hiei_1 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 31	That's cool, you make some valid points. Let me further break down my reasoning for saying the majority of a character's in-game life will be lvl 50 or higher. ---------- EQ1 was around for 4-6 years (i didn't play it so am fuzzy on exact numbers). While most of the players currently there weren't there in the beginning (I'm assuming), it remains a high-level game (I've heard). It's hard to compare eq1 into the picture because a good guild could powerlevel you to 50+ in no time. I'd say comparing with eq2 though this statement doesn't support your arguement. Few players have the time or desire to play for 4-6 years. Things come up that bump eq2 down or off the priority list. You leave, your account gets deleted, you come back, you start over. Besides, after doing all the high level raids a couple times, where's the fun. Sure, the drops are great but what do you use them for anyways. The whole point of having a high level toon is so you can twink out your alts and have fun playing them. ------------------ -More and more expansions loom on the horizon. Each expansion will most likely have things for the endgame, bringing the level 50 characters out of alt-mode, if only briefly. This attacks your original arguement rather than supporting it. Each expansion will have things endgame, will bring lvl 50 players back shortly. After the lvl 50 char has gotten his fill of the new expansion he will return to his alts and play them until the next big thing comes out. This adds more time to alts while only adding a little playing time to main tipping the scales closer to the theory that players will spend more time at midlevels than topped out. ---------------- -EQ2's devs have repeatedly said that they have plans to implement more levels past level 50. This will intice lvl 50 players to keep playing their toon in order to stock up wealth/gear for when those levels come out. Also, once they DO come out, it will encourage people to stay longer than your projected year. The Dev's aren't in any rush to go past lvl 50. Of course they're letting hints out about it, just like the hints of pvp on the horizon, just so they can get us drooling. Truth is that they're having a hard enough time just getting all the spells working and getting all the classes balanced for the first 50 levels. They got a long way to go before they can introduce another 5 - 10 character levels without it ending up in disaster. As far as stocking up wealth/gear waiting for the expansion to come out......why? With the new expansion and new character levels, a whole new tier of goods will come out. All the Gear that you have saved up that is tier 5 will be obselete when the gear 6 comes out. Why would you have to save up wealth? You've said that you've stuck around so far being a lvl 50 character who likes to do quests and raid. Why would you let other people raid all the new cool gear and you sit back and buy it off them with all the plat you've saved up? Go out and raid the gear yourself. Complete the quests, retwink your lvl 50 toon, make some more money, then go back to playing your 5 other alts -EQ2 recently got rid of quests graying out. This means that even a lvl 50 character can do quests and see content they skipped over (the weakest of my points). In regards to recent changes causing low level quests to never grey out, Players that are level 50 are either 1. Doing as you said and going back to complete all the quests they missed. This is very time consuming, 90pct or more soloable, and of almost zero challenge and fun. It boosts your total number of quests completely, but probably quickens the burn out process. 2. Creating alt's to come up through the ranks and focus on doing quests this time while they're challenging. Alot are doing this, this is the most fun way. 3. Complaining on the boards about lack of high end content. I don't know if it's the true majority, but its pretty much all you hear on the boards. PS, not a flaming post. Just throwing in another point of view since this is a good discussion.

04-09-2005, 08:46 AM	#14
Onion Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 57	A month to get from 42 to 50... Hah... Any only 3-4 hours a day... Hah. That wont happen.

04-09-2005, 03:11 PM	#15
Xtremeeeee Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	So erm yeah... back to the point of this thread............... I have heard that lots of high level mobs and nameds are immune to ice attacks. When you say immune do you mean ice will never hit them? or that it just gets resisted a lot of the time? Also how many mobsnameds are immune to ice? and are they high level?

04-11-2005, 02:41 AM	#16
Nibiuno Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32	Immune as in ice will never hit them. No resist check, just a message saying your spell went off and that's it. The majority of the end game raid encounters are immune to ice. Not too many named are immune to ice, but just about anything under the water will be; check out Undertow in Everfrost for one of the first ones you'll encounter I can think of.

04-11-2005, 02:52 PM	#17
Effulgen Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	I havent bothered to read the thread but i will answer the topic creator. Adept III Ice comet for wizard does 3500 dmg to a single target, and Adept III Nil Distortion does 2000 dmg to a single target for warlocks. However, warlocks have a lvl50 spell like Ice comet that ticks 600dmg 4 times on up to 5 mobs called Devastation, which results in over 12,000 dmg in a single spell, or just 2400 to a single mob. Ice Comet and Devastation are both on a 45 second recast timer, while Nil Distortion is on a 15 second recast timer. So, in the end, Warlocks have a 2500dmg aoe, and a 2000dmg nuke that you can cast 3 times in that period. ,If you want DPS, right now you should go warlock, but it is hard to see the future as any patch could render one class infinitely more powerful than the other. Pick what you like, and in the end you probably wont regret it. There will be down times but there will also be up times. Remember that Wizards outdamaged Warlocks for the first several months of the game. __________________ Effulgence - Destromath - WoW Player Like Woah

04-11-2005, 09:33 PM	#18
Lady Uaelr General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 476	Those figures are shocking. How much more powerful were wizards before? Did wizards get nerfed or did warlocks get improved just wondering. Warlocks= great dps, great for raids Wizards= fun in groups, does not sound good in raids.

04-13-2005, 07:41 AM	#19
Renynz Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	Warlocks and Wizards both got improved. Currently Warlocks do tend to do more damage, especially in regards to AE. Warlocks also have a ace in the hole regarding their resist base: Warlocks do not have as many resist issues as wizards. I haven't done any end-game content yet, but considering the sheer volume of posts regarding the topic, Ice Comet is about useless on most raids as raid mobs are frequently Ice immune (or heavily resistant). That being said though, SOE loves to play ping-pong with class balance. So the class you choose today could suck by comparison tommorow. Hmm. Actually, when enough people stop playing wizards SOE will probably fix them, so maybe you should pick a Warlock for the rest of us

04-13-2005, 06:00 PM	#20
Raminicus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	Renynzea wrote: Warlocks and Wizards both got improved. Currently Warlocks do tend to do more damage, especially in regards to AE. Warlocks also have a ace in the hole regarding their resist base: Warlocks do not have as many resist issues as wizards. I haven't done any end-game content yet, but considering the sheer volume of posts regarding the topic, Ice Comet is about useless on most raids as raid mobs are frequently Ice immune (or heavily resistant). That being said though, SOE loves to play ping-pong with class balance. So the class you choose today could suck by comparison tommorow. Hmm. Actually, when enough people stop playing wizards SOE will probably fix them, so maybe you should pick a Warlock for the rest of us It's already starting to change. In the last patch SOE hit both wizards and warlocks with higher mob resists. I think Wizards still get the raw end of the stick when it comes to spells being resisted, but it's much closer between the two classes than it was. Not only are they resisting more, but it seems their mitigation to poison/disease got increased as well. Warlocks aren't hitting nearly as hard as we used to. Unfortunately, I think Wizards also got nailed with this change. __________________ ================================ Proud new member of the Blackhawks Guild Colindo Ailaendroria, Warlock of Qeynos Naelin Anduial, Ranger of Qeynos Rilvayne, ShadowKnight of Freeport Krroog, Berzerker of Freeport ================================

04-13-2005, 06:36 PM	#21
CrimsonAveng Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 103	Who hoo, Im a 1 star bandit. Bah. Onions- wrote: A month to get from 42 to 50... Hah... Any only 3-4 hours a day... Hah. That wont happen. I got 1 word for you, vitality. When some is left anything is possible. 4 weeks = 400% vitality. 100% vitality as far as I can figure is a little over a level, maybe 1.25 or 1.33? Thats 6 lvls worth of vitality. 43+6=49. And if I'm that close Ill do the rest w/o vitality. I can dual groups of lizardmen in Ferrott or the rats in RV for about 10% an hour. Certainly doable. Will I? If I don't I'll be close __________________ Swampbane: 60 Warlock/60 Jeweler Matador: 62 Defiler/ 60 Provisioner Lexnar: 59 Bruiser/60 Alchemist "Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.