Manaburn Feedback (Post 11/12/06) - Page 7

Fews · 12-11-2006, 12:38 AM

From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been successful.

It's their(the mobs, Sony) new form of resist. Since manaburn can't outright be resisted...it is reflected instead. Doing 0 damage to mob and consuming all of your power. Mind you those same mobs don't always reflect, so there is a bit in luck in whether you end up doing 90K damage or 0. That type of luck may make the difference of a raid wipe or a win..or perhaps better to substitute a melee DPS class for the wizard so that the reflect doesn't matter (No this didn't happen, but was brought up). Whether there are things we can do to minimize the likelihood of the reflect remains to be seen. For some mobs the knowledge of when they reflect is a core concept in battling them, those I don't mind much...but if SOE is just adding reflect so that manaburn won't do anything because they are not allowed to have it "outright" resisted...well that isn't so hot.

Fewson

Message Edited by Fewson on 12-10-2006 12:24 PM

electricninjasex · 12-11-2006, 12:48 AM

Fewson wrote:

From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been succesfull.

How polite of the game engine to spare you! One would have expected that a reflected Manaburn will fry you where you stand.

Fews · 12-11-2006, 01:33 AM

electricninjasex wrote:

Fewson wrote:

From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been succesfull.

How polite of the game engine to spare you! One would have expected that a reflected Manaburn will fry you where you stand.

Hehe, that is what suprised me at first. I said...ok, I lost all my power, saw no change in mob's health....what happened? (didn't have time during fight to find out..had to wait for post fight analysis. before next pull). If it had been reflected I would have thought the feedback would have been me dying or taking major damage.

To argue the other side though, something that reflects does not have to reflect back on caster..it could reflect in another direction. Also, SOE has spells we and mobs can cast that reflect as smaller strength, such as 25% of original strength (Course 25% of 90K would fry me) I would have to check logs to see if anything can be discerned.

On one specific named mob, the Manaburn "disappeared"(reflected) on two seperate pulls, and because of other aspects of how that mob is designed, we wiped both those times. The third pull it wasn't reflected and we killed it. Done the mob many times before without reflection being an issue.

Then noticed reflection on other mobs in a few zones. (As I said I don't mind it on specific named mobs who use it as part of their suite of things to make the fight tough..but not sure if the above named is/was meant to be one of those)

Message Edited by Fewson on 12-10-2006 12:34 PM

simpwrx02 · 12-11-2006, 09:46 PM

As far as mana burn leaving you with no mana after it is cast here is one idea for recovering mana fast on a named fight should be around 15 seconds of down time for 4000 power back. ( 1 sec for city mercaht item, 1 second for draco gloves, 2sec for vitalic converion 1 second +10seconds of stifle vitalic cropping and use man stone while stifled). draco gloves, then city mercahnt item vitalic conversion vitalic cropping, mana stone( you can use this while stifled) This would actually make using mana burn on a named very useful, granted only once as the city mercahnt item is lore with only one charge. with only 15 seconds till back at 50% power, that is only a max loss of 30,000 damage assuming a 2k dps(i personally cant get this and with EoF maybee only 1500 dps).

Or if you take into account the whole manaburn step free hand then manaburn then the above mentioned step to recover mana is like 25 seconds total if mob is debuffed as long as you land manaburn for over 50k damage ( have seen plently of mana burns landing in the 60-90k range) it should in theroy up your dps even for a long named fight. I havent tried this out yet as i dont have mana burn, only 68 AAs right now, sure this is only one fight per zone, but it is a boss fight and shows that manaburn can be effective inthis situation maybe cast right after the mob is dispatched by a brig for max hit.

This is using illusivethought's suggestions in the power tree AAs as a base ( I have to give credit for the base of the idea, i just put my own twist on it for the gear that i have my twist being using the draco gloves and city merchant item). yes i know that the draco gloves have a 30 minute reuse timer, but KoS AA affects it as does jesters cap from a troub. To amke it evern more viable ask the aforementioned troub to cast jesters cap on you before you manaburn, this shortens the dracogloves to something silly like 14minutes for the reuse if i remember correctly.

Add in some other mana items i know of a hat that has a 500+ mana clicky on it as well as the one urn from silent city quest, the one that does damage to you for a minute or so( this is really helpful with mana cloak on you since that spell regens power when ever you take damage and the urn is outside damage and gives you the proc from mana cloak)

Message Edited by simpwrx on 12-11-2006 08:52 AM

GMPOTU · 01-03-2007, 08:53 PM

electricninjasex wrote:

Fewson wrote:

From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been succesfull.

How polite of the game engine to spare you! One would have expected that a reflected Manaburn will fry you where you stand.

I think it reflect the effect itself...ie cannot do more than 50% damage of targets max hp. Happened to me many times on clockwork menace and 1st named in MMIS when I had manaburn. Switched back to fireline now, but debating going back to manaburn and also debating going Wis/Agi instead of Str/Wis

12-11-2006, 12:48 AM	#182
electricninjasex Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 413	Fewson wrote: From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been succesfull. How polite of the game engine to spare you! One would have expected that a reflected Manaburn will fry you where you stand.

12-11-2006, 01:33 AM	#183
Fews Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 59	electricninjasex wrote: Fewson wrote: From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been succesfull. How polite of the game engine to spare you! One would have expected that a reflected Manaburn will fry you where you stand. Hehe, that is what suprised me at first. I said...ok, I lost all my power, saw no change in mob's health....what happened? (didn't have time during fight to find out..had to wait for post fight analysis. before next pull). If it had been reflected I would have thought the feedback would have been me dying or taking major damage. To argue the other side though, something that reflects does not have to reflect back on caster..it could reflect in another direction. Also, SOE has spells we and mobs can cast that reflect as smaller strength, such as 25% of original strength (Course 25% of 90K would fry me) I would have to check logs to see if anything can be discerned. On one specific named mob, the Manaburn "disappeared"(reflected) on two seperate pulls, and because of other aspects of how that mob is designed, we wiped both those times. The third pull it wasn't reflected and we killed it. Done the mob many times before without reflection being an issue. Then noticed reflection on other mobs in a few zones. (As I said I don't mind it on specific named mobs who use it as part of their suite of things to make the fight tough..but not sure if the above named is/was meant to be one of those) Message Edited by Fewson on 12-10-2006 12:34 PM

01-03-2007, 08:53 PM	#185
GMPOTU Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 81	electricninjasex wrote: Fewson wrote: From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been succesfull. How polite of the game engine to spare you! One would have expected that a reflected Manaburn will fry you where you stand. I think it reflect the effect itself...ie cannot do more than 50% damage of targets max hp. Happened to me many times on clockwork menace and 1st named in MMIS when I had manaburn. Switched back to fireline now, but debating going back to manaburn and also debating going Wis/Agi instead of Str/Wis

12-11-2006, 12:38 AM	#181
Fews Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 59	From the experimenting I have done so far, while doing the Mistmore Inner Sanctum and emerald halls, 90K+ manaburns are nice.... But losing all your mana and having 0 damage done (vs 60-90K) isn't. Using ACT to find out why, it seems that mobs often reflect. Reflect=0 damage to mob, and all your mana taken as if you had been successful. It's their(the mobs, Sony) new form of resist. Since manaburn can't outright be resisted...it is reflected instead. Doing 0 damage to mob and consuming all of your power. Mind you those same mobs don't always reflect, so there is a bit in luck in whether you end up doing 90K damage or 0. That type of luck may make the difference of a raid wipe or a win..or perhaps better to substitute a melee DPS class for the wizard so that the reflect doesn't matter (No this didn't happen, but was brought up). Whether there are things we can do to minimize the likelihood of the reflect remains to be seen. For some mobs the knowledge of when they reflect is a core concept in battling them, those I don't mind much...but if SOE is just adding reflect so that manaburn won't do anything because they are not allowed to have it "outright" resisted...well that isn't so hot. Fewson Message Edited by Fewson on 12-10-2006 12:24 PM

12-11-2006, 09:46 PM	#184
simpwrx02 Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 919	As far as mana burn leaving you with no mana after it is cast here is one idea for recovering mana fast on a named fight should be around 15 seconds of down time for 4000 power back. ( 1 sec for city mercaht item, 1 second for draco gloves, 2sec for vitalic converion 1 second +10seconds of stifle vitalic cropping and use man stone while stifled). draco gloves, then city mercahnt item vitalic conversion vitalic cropping, mana stone( you can use this while stifled) This would actually make using mana burn on a named very useful, granted only once as the city mercahnt item is lore with only one charge. with only 15 seconds till back at 50% power, that is only a max loss of 30,000 damage assuming a 2k dps(i personally cant get this and with EoF maybee only 1500 dps). Or if you take into account the whole manaburn step free hand then manaburn then the above mentioned step to recover mana is like 25 seconds total if mob is debuffed as long as you land manaburn for over 50k damage ( have seen plently of mana burns landing in the 60-90k range) it should in theroy up your dps even for a long named fight. I havent tried this out yet as i dont have mana burn, only 68 AAs right now, sure this is only one fight per zone, but it is a boss fight and shows that manaburn can be effective inthis situation maybe cast right after the mob is dispatched by a brig for max hit. This is using illusivethought's suggestions in the power tree AAs as a base ( I have to give credit for the base of the idea, i just put my own twist on it for the gear that i have my twist being using the draco gloves and city merchant item). yes i know that the draco gloves have a 30 minute reuse timer, but KoS AA affects it as does jesters cap from a troub. To amke it evern more viable ask the aforementioned troub to cast jesters cap on you before you manaburn, this shortens the dracogloves to something silly like 14minutes for the reuse if i remember correctly. Add in some other mana items i know of a hat that has a 500+ mana clicky on it as well as the one urn from silent city quest, the one that does damage to you for a minute or so( this is really helpful with mana cloak on you since that spell regens power when ever you take damage and the urn is outside damage and gives you the proc from mana cloak) Message Edited by simpwrx on 12-11-2006 08:52 AM