Why is the level cap still at 70? - Page 5

InsertNeko · 03-09-2007, 09:20 AM

i find it sad that one of the main reasons people are upset if the direct x engine the game's based on. If you'll recall, eq1 is still being played, and it doesn't need a quad-core to play. If you're one of those people that has to have a pretty game to play over a good game to play, then you're going to have nothing but disappointment every time a newer game comes out. One of the main issues at hand with the level cap at 70 is the completely and utterly broken raid loot tables in EOF. In our raiding, we're transmuted more gear than we've gotten for our guild members. By that token, when the next expansion comes out, none of us will have even half our eof fabled and whatever the next expansion's fabled sets are, we'll be moving to them, as they'll most likely be level 78-80, ignoring all the current 70's. i was able to complete all the dof/kos major questlines in a timely manner, and was barely able to finish my runesilk by the time eof came out. However, as badly nerfed as the relic was in kos, the broken loot tables in eof are insane. I fail to understand why the zones can't see who's there and drop accordingly. I'd love to see another 100 (not 50) aa added in the next expansion, maybe another 5-10 raid zones and a LOT more contested raid mobs. i don't need level 80, or 90 or whatever, just more content. But as the 80 cap has been announced, i feel like most of my time spent now is just a "wait until the cap is raised" time of thing. it's funny, some people want 80 and hope for dx10 support (which is apples and oranges), I just want content and to have loot tables fixed. I'd like to think we can have all that, but I doubt it.

XFDVT · 03-09-2007, 12:41 PM

IMO....the only thing that could save the game is adding a new PVP zone to every server.

The way it can be done:

- creating an expansion that consists of huge land (like antonica or commonland for example) which players can zone in and nuke the hell out of each others. And instead of making the faction good vs evil; make it guild based war, what I mean by that is each guild can choose between one of 2 factions and then enter the zone to figh.

-reward can be new tiltles, guild status, unlocking new guild based insta after attaining certain number of kills...or what ever SOE deem suitable

this way SOE wont have to raise cap lvl to 80 cause players will have more than enough to fill there time with.

electricninjasex · 03-09-2007, 12:59 PM

If you are a non-raiding necro with Archlich (Master I), a non-raiding wizard with Ice Nova (Master I), and on and on, the game failed you, and that is why you are bored. Has nothing to do with level caps.

Koltr · 03-15-2007, 12:10 PM

I have been following this discussion for some time, and would like to pose a possible solution: If raising the level cap merely induces a rush to reach the max again, there is a way to make the max a little more interesting to attain. Simply put, multiclassing... Wait, wait! Hear me out! If at some point a player wishes to try a different class, they sould be able to perform a quest that opens up the option to start the same toon over in another class, but with all of the abilities of the former class scaled down, via the mentoring mechanism. The old class spells, traits and abiities would be completely available, but no experience would be aquired in the old class. Experience for the new class would proceed at half the rate, making grinding a little bit more difficult. Say Betty the 30 conjourer wanted to try her luck as a Paladin for a while: Betty goes to Zarnax the Confused and requests retraining. Zarnax grants her petition and makes Betty a 1 Paladin / 1(30) Conjourer Betty goes back to the starter zones and begin to learn the new class, any quests done as a conjourer are still in place, but class specific quests for a Paladin are now available. When Betty reaches level 10, she will get the AA lines for Paladin added as an addition page on her persona, but at half the AA progression rate. When Betty reaches level 30; the previous class level; all experience will be split between classes, but there will still only be only one experience bar for adventuring and AA, sine 1/2 + 1/2 = 1. Betty is now a 30 Paladin/30 Conjourer with all the rights and priviledges of both. She will progress at half the rate as other toons, and will have all of the restrictions attributed to both, e.g. Armor and weapons prohibited for the conjourer will also be prohibitted for the toon as a whole, making play just a bit more interesting. Grinding to level 70 in both classes will become a whole lot more difficult, and challenging as well. By my accounting, 29 class specific quests will have to be modified textually. 38 will have to have mechanics changed (e.g. those around betrayal). No weapons, armor, or items need to be changed. As far as database requirements, the storaged per toon will only increase for the actual class additions such as spells and AAs, the rest, such as quests, and collections will remain the same. The toon, won't be able to repeat any nonrepeatable quest they have already performed, nor will they be able to pick oppositely aligned classes. The largest addition to the game would be in the AA line area, since the class and sub class both have a page, if the toon does not cross subclass boundaries, such as wizard/warlock then they get one additional subclass page for the warlock. If they cross class lines to become a conjourer/palidin then the would get two additional AA pages. As far as ballance is concerned, a toon with both sets of abilites would require a great deal of tuning during level progression, by the player, but near none for the developer, since level progresion is at half speed, and item restrictions will reduce what they can use considerably. No more walking around killing epics with Fabled uber armor since the mage class component restricts it. Everything will have to be rethought out by the player, since they are playing an entirely new class essentially. It will be up to the player to determing which class and spell combinations would work best, but my personal favourite would be necro/assassin. I have heard the arguments against this suggestion before, but after all this time, the level grind issue has always been the one that brings me back to multiclassing. And frankly, wouldn't it be fun to watch a Paladin/Conjourer in cloth armor go after the dragon in Antonica?

Kizee · 03-15-2007, 01:16 PM

XFDVT wrote:

IMO....the only thing that could save the game is adding a new PVP zone to every server.
The way it can be done:
- creating an expansion that consists of huge land (like antonica or commonland for example) which players can zone in and nuke the hell out of each others. And instead of making the faction good vs evil; make it guild based war, what I mean by that is each guild can choose between one of 2 factions and then enter the zone to figh.
-reward can be new tiltles, guild status, unlocking new guild based insta after attaining certain number of kills...or what ever SOE deem suitable
this way SOE wont have to raise cap lvl to 80 cause players will have more than enough to fill there time with.

Except most of the EQ2 playerbase doesn't give a crap about PvP.

If you don't believe me then go see how many people use the arena and how come the PvP servers are dying faster than the pve ones.

rubels · 03-16-2007, 03:06 AM

I understand the want for the cap to be raised. I offer a multiple solution to those of you

who "flagged" many raid zones, are doing current raid zones and also for the casuals.

I personally whould like to a see 5 levels added. This does a number of things ...

1. Keeps raid progression, if you add in 10 levels. ALL the content in the game is trivialized.

Basicly this whould shrink are game. I dont know to many tier 7 players in t6 or t5 zones.

2. Prevents farmability. If you add in 10 lvls everything in EOF becomes 1 or 2 groupable. Perfect

examples of this are t6 zones done now with single groups or x 2s for loot.

3. Game zones ... adding in 5 levels will just improve the quality and amount of zones

useable by the end game players. That means everything we have currently + the new content.

4. Items ... Basicly this is comming from a raider.. I dont want all my gear to be replaced once again

I know the same has to be said for even the casual players. Thats exactly what will happen

everything your wearing will be outdated in the first 10 mins the next expansion goes live.

Ok ... well I gave a few reasons why I think it should remain 5 lvls now onto how I whould like to

see those 5 levels implemented.

Either 1 of 2 ways....

1. Take wows need for a major quest to get a lvl this whould do a few things .

Prevent power players maxing 75 in a week.

Prevents the bots .... to even reach 75

I whould also like to see more "ancient type" spells instead of the rinse wash repeat of the

previous tier.

2. Add in 5 class specific spells or abilitys as said above....

IE Clerics ----- EXP REZ and yes add in deleveling to the game for the last 5 levels.

This does multiple things to eq2 .

1. your levels will mean something , so will that lvl 75 gear your wearing.

2. Adds that wow factor that this game is missing... sorry to say it but yea im just another fabled tank

kind of sux.

3. Gives every class a specific class based ability and something to seriously strive for .

4. Maintaining lvl 75 will be a priority... we wont see alot of "noob" players that honestly dont

know there class at 75.

Well any thoughts or feed back send it ... just dont flame (yea right)

- Krovax

EomerFarst · 03-16-2007, 01:31 PM

Sakaran wrote:

Hello, I am sure that this has been brought up numerous times but thought I would bring it up again. How can SOE keep it's players coming back again and again when there is really nothing new to do/explore once we all reach 70? Between my wife and I we have serveral level 70 adventure/crafting chars and are rapidly running out of new places to see and do. Adding additional AA points is not the answer - what is the point of getting better and better at doing the same instances/raids? To create a long term appeal, players need to be able to progress past 70 with new and higher level content to match. I look back at our time playing WOW and why we left (lack of content and level cap) and compare it to another game we played - AC1. Now that game had issues such as graphics, etc but... it was a challenge to play and very very fun. The cap there was 128 which unless you were in an experiance chain took forever to attain. New content was added and it was challenging and scaled to the higher level chars. Why cannot EQ2 do the same? This last release - EoF - is very appealing from a graphical point of view but most of the zones are simply grey at our levels - what a waste. It would have been great to have EoF critters start at level 70 and go from there. After starting so many new chars at level 1, I find I no longer have the patence and motivation for that. I do really love this game but will end up leaving it in the near future for the same reasons I left WOW - boredom. Sakaran

What would level cap do but give the power levelers something to do for a week ? After they ding 80 it's back to the same thing thing which is raids and dinging what ever AA's are left.

03-09-2007, 09:20 AM	#121
InsertNeko Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 227	i find it sad that one of the main reasons people are upset if the direct x engine the game's based on. If you'll recall, eq1 is still being played, and it doesn't need a quad-core to play. If you're one of those people that has to have a pretty game to play over a good game to play, then you're going to have nothing but disappointment every time a newer game comes out. One of the main issues at hand with the level cap at 70 is the completely and utterly broken raid loot tables in EOF. In our raiding, we're transmuted more gear than we've gotten for our guild members. By that token, when the next expansion comes out, none of us will have even half our eof fabled and whatever the next expansion's fabled sets are, we'll be moving to them, as they'll most likely be level 78-80, ignoring all the current 70's. i was able to complete all the dof/kos major questlines in a timely manner, and was barely able to finish my runesilk by the time eof came out. However, as badly nerfed as the relic was in kos, the broken loot tables in eof are insane. I fail to understand why the zones can't see who's there and drop accordingly. I'd love to see another 100 (not 50) aa added in the next expansion, maybe another 5-10 raid zones and a LOT more contested raid mobs. i don't need level 80, or 90 or whatever, just more content. But as the 80 cap has been announced, i feel like most of my time spent now is just a "wait until the cap is raised" time of thing. it's funny, some people want 80 and hope for dx10 support (which is apples and oranges), I just want content and to have loot tables fixed. I'd like to think we can have all that, but I doubt it. __________________

03-15-2007, 01:16 PM	#125
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	XFDVT wrote: IMO....the only thing that could save the game is adding a new PVP zone to every server. The way it can be done: - creating an expansion that consists of huge land (like antonica or commonland for example) which players can zone in and nuke the hell out of each others. And instead of making the faction good vs evil; make it guild based war, what I mean by that is each guild can choose between one of 2 factions and then enter the zone to figh. -reward can be new tiltles, guild status, unlocking new guild based insta after attaining certain number of kills...or what ever SOE deem suitable this way SOE wont have to raise cap lvl to 80 cause players will have more than enough to fill there time with. Except most of the EQ2 playerbase doesn't give a crap about PvP. If you don't believe me then go see how many people use the arena and how come the PvP servers are dying faster than the pve ones.

03-16-2007, 01:31 PM	#127
EomerFarst General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 180	Sakaran wrote: Hello, I am sure that this has been brought up numerous times but thought I would bring it up again. How can SOE keep it's players coming back again and again when there is really nothing new to do/explore once we all reach 70? Between my wife and I we have serveral level 70 adventure/crafting chars and are rapidly running out of new places to see and do. Adding additional AA points is not the answer - what is the point of getting better and better at doing the same instances/raids? To create a long term appeal, players need to be able to progress past 70 with new and higher level content to match. I look back at our time playing WOW and why we left (lack of content and level cap) and compare it to another game we played - AC1. Now that game had issues such as graphics, etc but... it was a challenge to play and very very fun. The cap there was 128 which unless you were in an experiance chain took forever to attain. New content was added and it was challenging and scaled to the higher level chars. Why cannot EQ2 do the same? This last release - EoF - is very appealing from a graphical point of view but most of the zones are simply grey at our levels - what a waste. It would have been great to have EoF critters start at level 70 and go from there. After starting so many new chars at level 1, I find I no longer have the patence and motivation for that. I do really love this game but will end up leaving it in the near future for the same reasons I left WOW - boredom. Sakaran What would level cap do but give the power levelers something to do for a week ? After they ding 80 it's back to the same thing thing which is raids and dinging what ever AA's are left.

03-09-2007, 12:41 PM	#122
XFDVT Elder Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1	IMO....the only thing that could save the game is adding a new PVP zone to every server. The way it can be done: - creating an expansion that consists of huge land (like antonica or commonland for example) which players can zone in and nuke the hell out of each others. And instead of making the faction good vs evil; make it guild based war, what I mean by that is each guild can choose between one of 2 factions and then enter the zone to figh. -reward can be new tiltles, guild status, unlocking new guild based insta after attaining certain number of kills...or what ever SOE deem suitable this way SOE wont have to raise cap lvl to 80 cause players will have more than enough to fill there time with.

03-09-2007, 12:59 PM	#123
electricninjasex Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 413	If you are a non-raiding necro with Archlich (Master I), a non-raiding wizard with Ice Nova (Master I), and on and on, the game failed you, and that is why you are bored. Has nothing to do with level caps.

03-15-2007, 12:10 PM	#124
Koltr General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 85	I have been following this discussion for some time, and would like to pose a possible solution: If raising the level cap merely induces a rush to reach the max again, there is a way to make the max a little more interesting to attain. Simply put, multiclassing... Wait, wait! Hear me out! If at some point a player wishes to try a different class, they sould be able to perform a quest that opens up the option to start the same toon over in another class, but with all of the abilities of the former class scaled down, via the mentoring mechanism. The old class spells, traits and abiities would be completely available, but no experience would be aquired in the old class. Experience for the new class would proceed at half the rate, making grinding a little bit more difficult. Say Betty the 30 conjourer wanted to try her luck as a Paladin for a while: Betty goes to Zarnax the Confused and requests retraining. Zarnax grants her petition and makes Betty a 1 Paladin / 1(30) Conjourer Betty goes back to the starter zones and begin to learn the new class, any quests done as a conjourer are still in place, but class specific quests for a Paladin are now available. When Betty reaches level 10, she will get the AA lines for Paladin added as an addition page on her persona, but at half the AA progression rate. When Betty reaches level 30; the previous class level; all experience will be split between classes, but there will still only be only one experience bar for adventuring and AA, sine 1/2 + 1/2 = 1. Betty is now a 30 Paladin/30 Conjourer with all the rights and priviledges of both. She will progress at half the rate as other toons, and will have all of the restrictions attributed to both, e.g. Armor and weapons prohibited for the conjourer will also be prohibitted for the toon as a whole, making play just a bit more interesting. Grinding to level 70 in both classes will become a whole lot more difficult, and challenging as well. By my accounting, 29 class specific quests will have to be modified textually. 38 will have to have mechanics changed (e.g. those around betrayal). No weapons, armor, or items need to be changed. As far as database requirements, the storaged per toon will only increase for the actual class additions such as spells and AAs, the rest, such as quests, and collections will remain the same. The toon, won't be able to repeat any nonrepeatable quest they have already performed, nor will they be able to pick oppositely aligned classes. The largest addition to the game would be in the AA line area, since the class and sub class both have a page, if the toon does not cross subclass boundaries, such as wizard/warlock then they get one additional subclass page for the warlock. If they cross class lines to become a conjourer/palidin then the would get two additional AA pages. As far as ballance is concerned, a toon with both sets of abilites would require a great deal of tuning during level progression, by the player, but near none for the developer, since level progresion is at half speed, and item restrictions will reduce what they can use considerably. No more walking around killing epics with Fabled uber armor since the mage class component restricts it. Everything will have to be rethought out by the player, since they are playing an entirely new class essentially. It will be up to the player to determing which class and spell combinations would work best, but my personal favourite would be necro/assassin. I have heard the arguments against this suggestion before, but after all this time, the level grind issue has always been the one that brings me back to multiclassing. And frankly, wouldn't it be fun to watch a Paladin/Conjourer in cloth armor go after the dragon in Antonica?

03-16-2007, 03:06 AM	#126
rubels General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 141	I understand the want for the cap to be raised. I offer a multiple solution to those of you who "flagged" many raid zones, are doing current raid zones and also for the casuals. I personally whould like to a see 5 levels added. This does a number of things ... 1. Keeps raid progression, if you add in 10 levels. ALL the content in the game is trivialized. Basicly this whould shrink are game. I dont know to many tier 7 players in t6 or t5 zones. 2. Prevents farmability. If you add in 10 lvls everything in EOF becomes 1 or 2 groupable. Perfect examples of this are t6 zones done now with single groups or x 2s for loot. 3. Game zones ... adding in 5 levels will just improve the quality and amount of zones useable by the end game players. That means everything we have currently + the new content. 4. Items ... Basicly this is comming from a raider.. I dont want all my gear to be replaced once again I know the same has to be said for even the casual players. Thats exactly what will happen everything your wearing will be outdated in the first 10 mins the next expansion goes live. Ok ... well I gave a few reasons why I think it should remain 5 lvls now onto how I whould like to see those 5 levels implemented. Either 1 of 2 ways.... 1. Take wows need for a major quest to get a lvl this whould do a few things . Prevent power players maxing 75 in a week. Prevents the bots .... to even reach 75 I whould also like to see more "ancient type" spells instead of the rinse wash repeat of the previous tier. 2. Add in 5 class specific spells or abilitys as said above.... IE Clerics ----- EXP REZ and yes add in deleveling to the game for the last 5 levels. This does multiple things to eq2 . 1. your levels will mean something , so will that lvl 75 gear your wearing. 2. Adds that wow factor that this game is missing... sorry to say it but yea im just another fabled tank kind of sux. 3. Gives every class a specific class based ability and something to seriously strive for . 4. Maintaining lvl 75 will be a priority... we wont see alot of "noob" players that honestly dont know there class at 75. Well any thoughts or feed back send it ... just dont flame (yea right) - Krovax