Heritage quests now fall under the 50-quest maximum - Why? - Page 2

Khale · 07-15-2005, 12:17 AM

I just don't understand why they can't make it possible to delete *ANY* quest that we have? I have a couple boat ride hallmark quests that just sit in my journal because I levelled up and auto entered into the zone. I'd surely like to be able to delete them since i'll probably never do them.

Bethin · 07-15-2005, 12:27 AM

Thank goodness this is on test. I hope we see a new patch note that will reverse this desicion.

I just can't get over the fact that just because a very select few want to have the ability to delete a quest that doesn't count against them you would do this. Who cares if it sits in a quest journal for ages.

The people who actually like this change are most likely people who don't bother with quests.

Vote no on proposition HQ!!!

Uba · 07-15-2005, 12:49 AM

Bethinna wrote:

The people who actually like this change are most likely people who don't bother with quests.

I agree that to many we seem like whiners, because many people aren't quest junkies. To most this will be "meh, what do I care" but some of us are on a mission to do every single quest in the game.

A lot of us pick up a large number of quests prior to hitting a certain area, so we can bang them all off at the same time.

I'm for moving the heritage quests to the regular journal but I'm against it if the cap isn't raised or another suitable solution isn't offered.

Dev's believe they've already catered to us because they moved the Collection tab... what they don't seem to realize is many of us quest junkies didn't do collections for this reason, and utilized our entire journal for standard quests. What this update is doing is outright limiting the quest space we have now.

Paganst · 07-15-2005, 01:15 AM

One question I have is that my journal is pretty much full all the time...period. I finish one quest and wind up picking up two more along the way. So presently my Journal might have room for 1 more quest. I have 5 or 6 heritage quests. What kind of issues will this cause if it goes over? and I assume I will not be able to take any more quests until it is brought back under 50 quests. Now all these quests are quite a ways into them and so they are not something I would want to just delete.

It is going to be a real pain to get those quests down below 50 seeing as you are constantly putting out new quests and content (don't get me wrong THAT is a wonderful thing), I know that increasing the amount of quests allowable is not really an option (I remember what it was like in beta). But putting them on their own Tab like the collection quests does sound like a great idea.

just my 2cp worth. Game on!

WuphonsReach · 07-15-2005, 01:17 AM

Until you drop below 50 quests, the only negative effect of having an overflowing journal is that you cannot accept any new quests.

Naughtesn · 07-15-2005, 01:45 AM

I think the cases where people have many HQs open far outnumbers the cases where someone wants to delete an HQ (usually only when the quest is bugged). Fix the quest and you'll remove any need to delete.

Maewh · 07-15-2005, 02:00 AM

I don't post much, but I really would like to add my vote to the camp of not letting Heritage Quests take journal space away. (Compensating by raising the number of available quests would be acceptable to me.)

I keep my quest journal full at pretty much all times, and I just play too casually to be able to remove a heritage quest with any sort of efficiency. So, essentially, you are dooming my quest journal to a near permanent -5 slots (I currently have 5 heritage quests).

That's all,

Meadowhisper

Gorkk00 · 07-15-2005, 02:03 AM

StoneYeti wrote:
Actually there is at least one good reason to do this.

In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL.

IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them.

I see a pretty simple solution here: make this tablet NO-DESTROY and disappear when examined if you know magic language. And give another back to anybody who is stuck at that point in the HQ because they deleted it (or better make the item available to buy at the NPC in Nek Forest for people having reached this step, 'cause they made a mistake, paying a few gold to repair it would not be much, just like those who accepted the alternative crappy reward for dusty blue stone can go on on ghoulbane if they pay 10g). Making HQ count toward the limit is really a bad idea. If they have to be deletable (i really don't see why though, except for bugs, but better fix the bugs then - some people are stuck in a HQ cause they deleted an item, how many people will delete accidentaly an heritage they started and will have to camp mobs again or get that rare again? Really bad idea imho), wait for having them still not count toward the limit. And I agree with the various previous posters, 50 is a bit low, and will be definitely too low if heritages are counted in it (some of them are meant to sit in your journal for lots of level, aka JBoots run: you can get it at 15, but won't ever be able to complete it before 32, except if you're a 40+ crafter and have lots of people cleaning the way before you get in zones, which is unlikely SMILEY

)

Blackguard · 07-15-2005, 03:50 AM

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. SMILEY

Desulto · 07-15-2005, 03:51 AM

Blackguard wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening.

Wow! Good on ya! SMILEY

RandomPlay · 07-15-2005, 04:05 AM

TYVM

Jeridor · 07-15-2005, 04:27 AM

Blackguard wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening.

Music to my ears. Thanks very much, BG.

Ishnar · 07-15-2005, 04:44 AM

Actfive wrote:

The crazy thing is collection qyuests which can be finished in a snap of the fingers by buying off the broker don't count,

Just in case you didn't pice it up in one of the previous posts. Collection quests do count toward your total, though you have to go to eq2players and check your profile to see. In game they are on different tabs that is all. There was a glitch when the collection tab was implemented but that has since been fixed.

Ishnar

Actfive · 07-15-2005, 04:51 AM

Yes they count towards your total completed, but any unfinished collection quests are not part of the 50 quest cap.

Wonderfull news about the cap increase to 75. Glad our voices have been heard :smileyhappy:

Uba · 07-15-2005, 06:04 AM

Yes, thank you very much!! 75 is far more than I expected, and a significant increase.

I'm curious, since I don't know the dynamics of the EQ2 servers, how this decreases performance?

Sorvani · 07-15-2005, 06:29 AM

everytime you pass an NPC it checks your quest journal to determine if it needs to make a special reaction. everytime you kill an NPC it checks your quest journal for kill count updates etc.. early in beta there was no quest limit and with more than 200 people in one zone things got baaaaadddd.. with server stabillities increased i hope this doesn't cause much of an impact, cause i'm all for more journal space!

Lonw · 07-15-2005, 06:39 AM

The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction. After every time I hlped guildies with a boat ride, they had to go through their journal and start deleting old quests. People didnt WANT to go to new zones, coz they had too many unfinished quests in old zones, and liked the feeling of accomplishment of nailing a quest, and HATED deleting old ones. Writs and access quests, imo, should also not count toward the total.

Aegori · 07-15-2005, 07:19 AM

Lonwen wrote:
The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction.

Understandable thought, but realize the cap is there not to hinder, but for a major performance check. Back in beta, when there was no cap, everyone had a few hundered active quests. Each time anyone completed some action that could update a quest a check went through all the hundereds of quests to see if they needed to be updated. Multiply that by the number of people in any given zone and you had MASSIVE lag/crashed zones. The cap has a very important purpose and i understand why it's in. I'm glad it's getting raised, but if they need to reduce it again i also understand.

-Aeg

Message Edited by Aegorian on 07-15-2005 12:00 AM

Uba · 07-15-2005, 07:52 AM

Now this is really good to know. It explains why we had the cap in the first place.

When players understand this, they're considerably more forgiving.

retro_guy · 07-15-2005, 08:39 AM

Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill tasks undelatable? I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal. Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling??

Niltsiar · 07-15-2005, 11:05 AM

Blackguard wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening.

Afaik the reason for performance problem with lots of quests is, that with every kill, every zone usw. the quests have to be checked.

What about a questlog with unlimited quests ? It is possible, we only need another tab “active quests”. That tab has a limit of lets say 20 quests. Players should be able, to move quests in and out of this tab. Only quests in the “active” quests are checked.

So both side have what they want … players have unlimited quests in their log and SOE has only 20 quests to check for better performance.

Sorry for my bad English, I’m no native English speaker.

Dro · 07-15-2005, 01:13 PM

Thanks for increasing the limit to 75 - that will help everyone.

However if it does proove to impact performance then please drop this idea. The number of people who want to delete Heritage quests is hughly outnumbered by those who don't want heritage quests in the total count. In this case we'd all arather wait for a longer term solution to the deletable quests using the same flag as no-count ones.

Ricassari · 07-15-2005, 03:09 PM

Droo2 wrote:
In this case we'd all arather wait for a longer term solution to the deletable quests using the same flag as no-count ones.

I doubt that this will be an easy fix, from my experience. Things like this, using the same variable for two different things were common in the days of 64k RAM computers. Not necessary now, of course. Still, some lazy programmers continue to put related informations in the same data fields. Whenever I did things like this they always came back to haunt me - 100% sure. Like SOE is haunted here. And the fix was never easy, as it involved too many different bits and parts of the program that all have to be recoded to use the correct one of the new variable, and it is very prone to further errors. I NEVER do this now. No professional programmer stores data this way today. But professionalism is what is severely lacking at SOE, unfortunately SMILEY

So we will have to live with deleteble = counts for the limit. The new 75 limit is not a good, but probably the best possible solution. Quick and dirty - but quick. Although I would do a quick database check on the number of open heritage quests on the chars, and then decide about the new limit based on the max and average numbers - I think a limit of 60 should be enough. Might be better for the performance, which should not suffer for such an insignificant change.

Ravenmi · 07-15-2005, 03:46 PM

Yeah, I was a lazy SoB with about 14 heritages in my journal or so and I don't know anyone that was as bad about finishing them as I was personally. Sure there are some out there tho, heh. But I'd still think raising the limit by 15 would be more then adaquate. 25 is probably more then needed.

Although is its found 25 doesn't impact performance in any way noticable, I'd say thats great and go for it. Less performance decrease the better tho so if 25 doesnt' work out give 15 or 10 a shot.

BTW, back down to 6 unfinished now, heh.. got of my lazy [Removed for Content] for a few days. SMILEY

Sural_Argonus · 07-15-2005, 04:19 PM

Niltsiar wrote:

Blackguard wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening.

Afaik the reason for performance problem with lots of quests is, that with every kill, every zone usw. the quests have to be checked.

What about a questlog with unlimited quests ? It is possible, we only need another tab “active quests”. That tab has a limit of lets say 20 quests. Players should be able, to move quests in and out of this tab. Only quests in the “active” quests are checked.

So both side have what they want … players have unlimited quests in their log and SOE has only 20 quests to check for better performance.

Sorry for my bad English, I’m no native English speaker.

The problem with that is games such as this rely heavily on Database Connections. The more calls you have at any given time, will decrease the transfer. I know that the SWG Side was using SQL for some of this....and as some of you may know, SQL can be pretty flakey if you tax it too much....Heck...It likes to crash hard if you even try a simlple update. I completely understand why they don't want to mess with it...It's working...When it's working...you don't mess with it....It's safer that way.

This is probably why there are some other limitations put on our characters....Our characters are not text files on a computer over there. The main data is most likely all in DBase files...

Nil · 07-15-2005, 05:20 PM

retro_guy wrote:Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill tasks undelatable? I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal. Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling??

Quests that Can't be deleted do not count aginst yoru total. Why did you get a tradeskill quets if you do not like tradeskills. Seems kind of off to me.. but if you wnat em out of your jornal you need to complete them... However you can talk to the NPC to give you a differnt quest if those specfic items are not to your liking. Maybey they can add a dialoge to wholsellers to remove thier quets form yoru journal. This will work for peopel who make the 10 items and sell em and forget what they were supposed to make.

Ram · 07-15-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

I see absolutely no logical reason for doing this. Heritages are extremely lengthy and journal space is precious.

Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the 50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a 50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50. Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room.

And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest. It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to 100-quest maximum now.

Message Edited by Ramia on 07-15-2005 06:41 AM

Gorkk00 · 07-15-2005, 06:00 PM

Ramia wrote:
Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the 50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a 50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50. Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room.

And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest. It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to 100-quest maximum now.

Message Edited by Ramia on 07-15-2005 06:41 AM

That has been explained in this thread several time: it's a question of resources used by server. Blackguard said they'll put it up to 75, and see if it doesn't produces sever lags. I agree though than 50 is a pretty low cap, specialy with L&L, Language and Access and soon Heritages in the list (it's better than before though with collections out of this maximum now, it was awful at that time).

Sural_Argonus · 07-15-2005, 06:05 PM

Ramia wrote:

Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the 50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a 50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50. Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room.

And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest. It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to 100-quest maximum now.

Not to be mean or anything...But did you even read any of the posts in the thread, or did you just skim some of them? I'd suggest re-reading at least the post from Blackguard. SMILEY

It's on Page 2.

Makkaio · 07-15-2005, 06:09 PM

Blackguard wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening.

Thanks, Blackguard. This is one perpetual quester that is keeping his fingers crossed. But I will definitely resign quest space for maintained performance. Thanks, again.

07-15-2005, 12:17 AM	#31
Khale Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 54	I just don't understand why they can't make it possible to delete ANY quest that we have? I have a couple boat ride hallmark quests that just sit in my journal because I levelled up and auto entered into the zone. I'd surely like to be able to delete them since i'll probably never do them. __________________

07-15-2005, 12:49 AM	#33
Uba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Bethinna wrote: The people who actually like this change are most likely people who don't bother with quests. I agree that to many we seem like whiners, because many people aren't quest junkies. To most this will be "meh, what do I care" but some of us are on a mission to do every single quest in the game. A lot of us pick up a large number of quests prior to hitting a certain area, so we can bang them all off at the same time. I'm for moving the heritage quests to the regular journal but I'm against it if the cap isn't raised or another suitable solution isn't offered. Dev's believe they've already catered to us because they moved the Collection tab... what they don't seem to realize is many of us quest junkies didn't do collections for this reason, and utilized our entire journal for standard quests. What this update is doing is outright limiting the quest space we have now.

07-15-2005, 01:15 AM	#34
Paganst General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	One question I have is that my journal is pretty much full all the time...period. I finish one quest and wind up picking up two more along the way. So presently my Journal might have room for 1 more quest. I have 5 or 6 heritage quests. What kind of issues will this cause if it goes over? and I assume I will not be able to take any more quests until it is brought back under 50 quests. Now all these quests are quite a ways into them and so they are not something I would want to just delete. It is going to be a real pain to get those quests down below 50 seeing as you are constantly putting out new quests and content (don't get me wrong THAT is a wonderful thing), I know that increasing the amount of quests allowable is not really an option (I remember what it was like in beta). But putting them on their own Tab like the collection quests does sound like a great idea. just my 2cp worth. Game on! __________________ Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant. - Dogma

07-15-2005, 01:17 AM	#35
WuphonsReach Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 558	Until you drop below 50 quests, the only negative effect of having an overflowing journal is that you cannot accept any new quests. __________________ -- Snabbik of Test Pre-order/account canceled on Sep 8 2005

07-15-2005, 01:45 AM	#36
Naughtesn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 271	I think the cases where people have many HQs open far outnumbers the cases where someone wants to delete an HQ (usually only when the quest is bugged). Fix the quest and you'll remove any need to delete. __________________ Hausbau, 80 Coercer

07-15-2005, 12:27 AM	#32
Bethin General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	Thank goodness this is on test. I hope we see a new patch note that will reverse this desicion. I just can't get over the fact that just because a very select few want to have the ability to delete a quest that doesn't count against them you would do this. Who cares if it sits in a quest journal for ages. The people who actually like this change are most likely people who don't bother with quests. Vote no on proposition HQ!!!

07-15-2005, 02:00 AM	#37
Maewh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	I don't post much, but I really would like to add my vote to the camp of not letting Heritage Quests take journal space away. (Compensating by raising the number of available quests would be acceptable to me.) I keep my quest journal full at pretty much all times, and I just play too casually to be able to remove a heritage quest with any sort of efficiency. So, essentially, you are dooming my quest journal to a near permanent -5 slots (I currently have 5 heritage quests). That's all, Meadowhisper

07-15-2005, 02:03 AM	#38
Gorkk00 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 194	StoneYeti wrote: Actually there is at least one good reason to do this. In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL. IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them. I see a pretty simple solution here: make this tablet NO-DESTROY and disappear when examined if you know magic language. And give another back to anybody who is stuck at that point in the HQ because they deleted it (or better make the item available to buy at the NPC in Nek Forest for people having reached this step, 'cause they made a mistake, paying a few gold to repair it would not be much, just like those who accepted the alternative crappy reward for dusty blue stone can go on on ghoulbane if they pay 10g). Making HQ count toward the limit is really a bad idea. If they have to be deletable (i really don't see why though, except for bugs, but better fix the bugs then - some people are stuck in a HQ cause they deleted an item, how many people will delete accidentaly an heritage they started and will have to camp mobs again or get that rare again? Really bad idea imho), wait for having them still not count toward the limit. And I agree with the various previous posters, 50 is a bit low, and will be definitely too low if heritages are counted in it (some of them are meant to sit in your journal for lots of level, aka JBoots run: you can get it at 15, but won't ever be able to complete it before 32, except if you're a 40+ crafter and have lots of people cleaning the way before you get in zones, which is unlikely ) __________________ Nifnif, Illusionist 63 / Alchemist 50 (Disturbed Hogs, Lucan DLere) Noufnouf, Dirge 54 / Weaponsmith 53 (Disturbed Hogs, Lucan DLere)

07-15-2005, 03:50 AM	#39
Blackguard Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 686	Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. __________________ Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder Community Relations Manager Custodian of the Nerfbat

07-15-2005, 03:51 AM	#40
Desulto Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 37	Blackguard wrote: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. Wow! Good on ya! __________________

07-15-2005, 04:05 AM	#41
RandomPlay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	TYVM

07-15-2005, 04:27 AM	#42
Jeridor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 248	Blackguard wrote: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. Music to my ears. Thanks very much, BG.

07-15-2005, 04:44 AM	#43
Ishnar Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 423	Actfive wrote: The crazy thing is collection qyuests which can be finished in a snap of the fingers by buying off the broker don't count, Just in case you didn't pice it up in one of the previous posts. Collection quests do count toward your total, though you have to go to eq2players and check your profile to see. In game they are on different tabs that is all. There was a glitch when the collection tab was implemented but that has since been fixed. Ishnar

07-15-2005, 04:51 AM	#44
Actfive Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	Yes they count towards your total completed, but any unfinished collection quests are not part of the 50 quest cap. Wonderfull news about the cap increase to 75. Glad our voices have been heard :smileyhappy: __________________ Quiting EQ2 is like quitting smoking...Easy to do, hard to maintain....

07-15-2005, 06:04 AM	#45
Uba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Yes, thank you very much!! 75 is far more than I expected, and a significant increase. I'm curious, since I don't know the dynamics of the EQ2 servers, how this decreases performance?

07-15-2005, 06:29 AM	#46
Sorvani Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 191	everytime you pass an NPC it checks your quest journal to determine if it needs to make a special reaction. everytime you kill an NPC it checks your quest journal for kill count updates etc.. early in beta there was no quest limit and with more than 200 people in one zone things got baaaaadddd.. with server stabillities increased i hope this doesn't cause much of an impact, cause i'm all for more journal space! __________________

07-15-2005, 06:39 AM	#47
Lonw Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction. After every time I hlped guildies with a boat ride, they had to go through their journal and start deleting old quests. People didnt WANT to go to new zones, coz they had too many unfinished quests in old zones, and liked the feeling of accomplishment of nailing a quest, and HATED deleting old ones. Writs and access quests, imo, should also not count toward the total.

07-15-2005, 07:19 AM	#48
Aegori General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 192	Lonwen wrote: The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction. Understandable thought, but realize the cap is there not to hinder, but for a major performance check. Back in beta, when there was no cap, everyone had a few hundered active quests. Each time anyone completed some action that could update a quest a check went through all the hundereds of quests to see if they needed to be updated. Multiply that by the number of people in any given zone and you had MASSIVE lag/crashed zones. The cap has a very important purpose and i understand why it's in. I'm glad it's getting raised, but if they need to reduce it again i also understand. -Aeg Message Edited by Aegorian on 07-15-2005 12:00 AM __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dev Tracker Search Function

07-15-2005, 07:52 AM	#49
Uba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Now this is really good to know. It explains why we had the cap in the first place. When players understand this, they're considerably more forgiving.

07-15-2005, 08:39 AM	#50
retro_guy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 935	Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill tasks undelatable? I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal. Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling?? __________________

07-15-2005, 11:05 AM	#51
Niltsiar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,425	Blackguard wrote: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. Afaik the reason for performance problem with lots of quests is, that with every kill, every zone usw. the quests have to be checked. What about a questlog with unlimited quests ? It is possible, we only need another tab “active quests”. That tab has a limit of lets say 20 quests. Players should be able, to move quests in and out of this tab. Only quests in the “active” quests are checked. So both side have what they want … players have unlimited quests in their log and SOE has only 20 quests to check for better performance. Sorry for my bad English, I’m no native English speaker. __________________

07-15-2005, 01:13 PM	#52
Dro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 31	Thanks for increasing the limit to 75 - that will help everyone. However if it does proove to impact performance then please drop this idea. The number of people who want to delete Heritage quests is hughly outnumbered by those who don't want heritage quests in the total count. In this case we'd all arather wait for a longer term solution to the deletable quests using the same flag as no-count ones.

07-15-2005, 03:09 PM	#53
Ricassari Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 68	Droo2 wrote: In this case we'd all arather wait for a longer term solution to the deletable quests using the same flag as no-count ones. I doubt that this will be an easy fix, from my experience. Things like this, using the same variable for two different things were common in the days of 64k RAM computers. Not necessary now, of course. Still, some lazy programmers continue to put related informations in the same data fields. Whenever I did things like this they always came back to haunt me - 100% sure. Like SOE is haunted here. And the fix was never easy, as it involved too many different bits and parts of the program that all have to be recoded to use the correct one of the new variable, and it is very prone to further errors. I NEVER do this now. No professional programmer stores data this way today. But professionalism is what is severely lacking at SOE, unfortunately So we will have to live with deleteble = counts for the limit. The new 75 limit is not a good, but probably the best possible solution. Quick and dirty - but quick. Although I would do a quick database check on the number of open heritage quests on the chars, and then decide about the new limit based on the max and average numbers - I think a limit of 60 should be enough. Might be better for the performance, which should not suffer for such an insignificant change.

07-15-2005, 03:46 PM	#54
Ravenmi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 402	Yeah, I was a lazy SoB with about 14 heritages in my journal or so and I don't know anyone that was as bad about finishing them as I was personally. Sure there are some out there tho, heh. But I'd still think raising the limit by 15 would be more then adaquate. 25 is probably more then needed. Although is its found 25 doesn't impact performance in any way noticable, I'd say thats great and go for it. Less performance decrease the better tho so if 25 doesnt' work out give 15 or 10 a shot. BTW, back down to 6 unfinished now, heh.. got of my lazy [Removed for Content] for a few days.

07-15-2005, 04:19 PM	#55
Sural_Argonus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Argonia Posts: 122	Niltsiar wrote: Blackguard wrote: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. Afaik the reason for performance problem with lots of quests is, that with every kill, every zone usw. the quests have to be checked. What about a questlog with unlimited quests ? It is possible, we only need another tab “active quests”. That tab has a limit of lets say 20 quests. Players should be able, to move quests in and out of this tab. Only quests in the “active” quests are checked. So both side have what they want … players have unlimited quests in their log and SOE has only 20 quests to check for better performance. Sorry for my bad English, I’m no native English speaker. The problem with that is games such as this rely heavily on Database Connections. The more calls you have at any given time, will decrease the transfer. I know that the SWG Side was using SQL for some of this....and as some of you may know, SQL can be pretty flakey if you tax it too much....Heck...It likes to crash hard if you even try a simlple update. I completely understand why they don't want to mess with it...It's working...When it's working...you don't mess with it....It's safer that way. This is probably why there are some other limitations put on our characters....Our characters are not text files on a computer over there. The main data is most likely all in DBase files... __________________ Professional Lobber of Arrows Sig unavailable

07-15-2005, 05:20 PM	#56
Nil General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 54	retro_guy wrote:Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill tasks undelatable? I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal. Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling?? Quests that Can't be deleted do not count aginst yoru total. Why did you get a tradeskill quets if you do not like tradeskills. Seems kind of off to me.. but if you wnat em out of your jornal you need to complete them... However you can talk to the NPC to give you a differnt quest if those specfic items are not to your liking. Maybey they can add a dialoge to wholsellers to remove thier quets form yoru journal. This will work for peopel who make the 10 items and sell em and forget what they were supposed to make. __________________ Cipher -- Disturbed Dirge -- Ryltar SpiritSeeker -- Shaman for Justice --

07-15-2005, 05:40 PM	#57
Ram General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 77	Quote: I see absolutely no logical reason for doing this. Heritages are extremely lengthy and journal space is precious. Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the 50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a 50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50. Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room. And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest. It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to 100-quest maximum now. Message Edited by Ramia on 07-15-2005 06:41 AM

07-15-2005, 06:00 PM	#58
Gorkk00 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 194	Ramia wrote: Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the 50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a 50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50. Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room. And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest. It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to 100-quest maximum now. Message Edited by Ramia on 07-15-2005 06:41 AM That has been explained in this thread several time: it's a question of resources used by server. Blackguard said they'll put it up to 75, and see if it doesn't produces sever lags. I agree though than 50 is a pretty low cap, specialy with L&L, Language and Access and soon Heritages in the list (it's better than before though with collections out of this maximum now, it was awful at that time). __________________ Nifnif, Illusionist 63 / Alchemist 50 (Disturbed Hogs, Lucan DLere) Noufnouf, Dirge 54 / Weaponsmith 53 (Disturbed Hogs, Lucan DLere)

07-15-2005, 06:05 PM	#59
Sural_Argonus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Argonia Posts: 122	Ramia wrote: Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the 50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a 50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50. Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room. And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest. It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to 100-quest maximum now. Not to be mean or anything...But did you even read any of the posts in the thread, or did you just skim some of them? I'd suggest re-reading at least the post from Blackguard. It's on Page 2. __________________ Professional Lobber of Arrows Sig unavailable

07-15-2005, 06:09 PM	#60
Makkaio Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 71	Blackguard wrote: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. Thanks, Blackguard. This is one perpetual quester that is keeping his fingers crossed. But I will definitely resign quest space for maintained performance. Thanks, again. __________________