<DIV>- Heritage quests can be deleted from your journal, and now fall under the 50-quest maximum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, this is test and not all things go to Live, but I can't think of a single reason why you would want a Heritage quest deleted from your book in the first place. The pain of camping named is reason enough not to delete these quests. I certainly would not like to camp Lord Byron two or three times for the same quest. Heritage quests by thier nature can be long drawn out quests, and can sit in your quest book for ages. What this will in effect do is cut my quest book to 40 quests, as I always sail close to the wind as far as quests go, and rarely have more than one or two open slots. What this will do is put me in overflow...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crazy thing is collection qyuests which can be finished in a snap of the fingers by buying off the broker don't count, but Heritage quests that can take a week or more to complete if you are camping a number of names will count.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is the reasoning behind this change? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I must agree.  I know I personally had the lightstone HQ in my book from the early 20's and because it requires several rather lengthy camps didn't finish it till I was level 47.  This would have been really depressing had it counted towards my limit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus in a guild where there are not enough to do some of the more involved quests that require raids ( GB, SBS, SSOY, etc) it may take quite awhile to either get the guild to a point where they can do this or find a pick-up raid that is successful.  Not to mention the FBSS and trying to not only find the monks up, but then trying and assemble a task force in the alloted time before they are either taken by other groups and killed or despawn.  Eyepatch and Lavastorm both involve finding some random bots on the ground that are fairly uncommon, and highly contested.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All of these lead me to agree that making them count against your total is rediculous, especially because currently you need to have the guild raids in your book to recieve writs.  So in effect if you can have upwards of 10 quests tied up in just doing writs.  Add that to your HQ's and you may have lost 1/4 of your total quest amount, which is rediculous.</DIV>

I also think this is a bad idea. There really isn't any reason for this change - other than to make gameplay more difficult for those of us that likes questing.

<P>I see absolutely no logical reason for doing this. Heritages are extremely lengthy and journal space is precious.</P> <P>I hardly ever have more than 2 quest slots free and this change would make it even harder. </P>

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>A while back people were begging for collections to be exempt from the 50 quest limit.  So the devs complied and at the same time made it so collections didn't count towards the completed quests total.  And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Fast forward to now and pretty much the same thing is happening.  A few people asked for a change and not surprisingly nobody likes the added extra consequences. How come you didn't learn. <span>:smileytongue: The logical reason might be that the journal is coded such that any quest which is a) not a collection and b) is deletable counts towards the limit.    Makes perfect sense to me, because this is the way it actually is.  Tradeskill tasks, heritages, and hallmarks are not deletable and do not count towards the limit, and everything that is deletable and not a collection does count. I don't like the change much either, because it's going to inconvenience me.  But if that's the reason it's been made then it does make sense. To z2xm:  you don't need all those guild raids in your quest journal to receive writs.  All you do is accept the "report to registrar" quest, you don't have to go talk to the registrar.   Just leave the "report" quest sitting there active and you can get writs as normal. </span><p> </p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:05 AM</span>

<DIV>if in fact the journal is coded in the manner you described, then it would seem simple enough to simply have HQ's fall into the same category as collections in within their coding, or specifically add in an exemption for the 20 odd quests in the Heritage line.  But what do I know?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and I did try it without the quest to go talk to him, they just give me the standard "you need to go do what I told you to do" line instead of giving any writs.</DIV>

<P>Making them deletable may please a small minority - but making them count towards the limit is very bad. These quests are so long that they sit in the journal for a very long time.</P> <P> </P>

<P>what will happen on live date if you have 50 quests already in journal and 7 heritages, for a total of 57</P> <P> </P>

<div></div>The extra quests go into overflow.   From memory (I could be wrong) you need to delete the extras until you're back at the 50 quest limit.   So try not to be over the limit the night before LU12 goes live. =/ Z2xm, if you didn't, try getting the "report to registrar" quest from an NPC who <i>isn't</i> the one that you get writs for your tier from.  Then leave the report quest in your journal and go to your regular writ npcs and they should give you writs.  If that doesn't work for you I don't know what else you could try, that method has always worked for me and I never have to use more than one extra slot when I want to get writs. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:02 AM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR>The extra quests go into overflow.   From memory (I could be wrong) you need to delete the extras until you're back at the 50 quest limit.   So try not to be over the limit the night before LU12 goes live. =/ <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Basically, yeah.  Heritages counting toward the total meant I had 51 quests when I logged in (8 open Heritage Quests + 7 open slots = D'oh).  I deleted a couple of Kill X quests from Feerrott and EF and my journal, thankfully, seems not to be bugged at all, and I can carry on as normal.</DIV>

<P>The change to having Heritage quests count towards to limit of 50 is going ot cause me some issues, but I think it really just raises a nasty problem and that is the quest limit itself.</P> <P>Until you get to about level 20 the quest limit seems to be "more than you would ever need".  Its certainly easy to manage with the limit of 50.  But as you start to hit 30 its becoming a nightmare that will only get worse.  A player of level 35 hass probably visited Zek, EL, Riverdale, maybe Feerroot, nek castle, Runnyeye Citadel, Varsooms, Condemed Catacombs, Splitpaw, etc....  </P> <P> </P> <P>Even being careful you can easily have 4-5 quests active for each of these.  Having 5 active heritage quests is almost the minimum.  4 City writs, 2-3 trade related quests, access quests, hallmarks, etc...</P> <P>50 just is not enough.  By the time a player hits 40 managing the quests is becoming a job in itself.</P> <P>By the way, if someone is at the limit (50) and this change takes place which quests will get automatically removed?</P> <P>I really think SOE needs to rething the limits.  Maybe the limit raises to 60 at level 20, and 70 at level 30 and 80 at level 40?  I don't know the answer, but quests are a very big part of the game and there is nothing more stupid thatn entering Splitpaw and quickly deciding which quests to delete to allow you to add some splitpaw quests.  I HAVE ALREADY deleted everything that is green, most of the blues, etc.  Deleting more at this point hurts. </P>

<P>BAD idea to have these count toward 50 quest limit- at level 40 or so a patron or other enterprising young adventurer could have up to 22 slots taken up by heritages in some state of completion.  </P> <P>Why the change?   Have ppl been abusing this?  Has this changed some balance issues having 57 quests in your journal?  Have players complained they have too many quests open?  Does having 57 quests in your journal cause Splitpaw to crash?  Why the change, then, since I believe the answers to the above questions are "No"?</P> <P>Since no explanation has been given, I could surmise that in order to make a quest deletable, it must count against the limit....  So, if thats the case. don't make them deletable.  Who wants to delete a heritage quest anyway?  The only time you might want to do that is if it's bugged like the Highwaymen part of FBSS (fix the quests that are bugged and ppl have no reason to delete them).</P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote:<BR> <P> But as you start to hit 30 its becoming a nightmare that will only get worse.  A player of level 35 hass probably visited Zek, EL, Riverdale, maybe Feerroot, nek castle, Runnyeye Citadel, Varsooms, Condemed Catacombs, Splitpaw, etc.... </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>A lot of the problems associated with full quest books stems from the reduction in Charactor level requirements to access certain zones. The 50 limit might have been ok in the days of higher level access to the new areas, but but now the journal limit of 50 is way way out of date.  In the days of higher levels to auto access, you had mostly finished off those old quests. You finished them off to level, and gain access to the new areas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now it's only lvl 30 to access Zek & EL, and at 30 you still have a bucket load of unfinished quests from Nek or TS. Of course you want to explore the new areas, and so you pick up more quests, further compounding your problem....Then you hit 40, and now you can visit Tier five zones, more quests, more journal problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I hate deleting unfinished quests, but I have been doing this a lot just to keep under my cap. Now this cap is to be reduced further with the addition of heritage quests? Personally I think it needs to be <STRONG>increased</STRONG> to at least 75, AND still have heritage quests exempt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

<P>Actually there is at least one good reason to do this.</P> <P>In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL. </P> <P>IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them.</P>

If you overflow the quest book (I had 51 quests last night), the only thing that happens is that you cannot accept any new quests.Existing quests in the quest journal still functioned normally.

<DIV>Man, just when I was going to start to push the devs to up the quest limit to 75.  :smileysad:  Unfortunately, I'm a quest pack rat and my questbook is ALWAYS full.  With Lore and Legend, book quests, heritage quests...well, with so many important quests, I think the limit of 50 is just WAY too small.  How about pushing the limit to 75 with heritage quest counting toward that limit?</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StoneYeti wrote:<BR> <P>Actually there is at least one good reason to do this.</P> <P>In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL. </P> <P>IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I can see this as a valid reason for needing to delete a HQ from ones journal. However as mentioned by everyone else, HQs stay in ones journal typically for a long time (Had Journey is Half the Fun from 15 till 45). Having them count towards the quest limit without raising the number of allowable quests is a bad idea. The game is called Ever<STRONG>Quest.... </STRONG>limiting the number we can have still further by including long term HQs to the count is not the way to go.

<P>I agree with you, they should do something better. Either make them deletable only or raise the cap. </P> <P>I just saw a lot of people complaining and figured I would put an actual reason out there. There are much better solutions but at least this particular problem can be dealt with now.</P>

The 50 quest limit is due to technical reasons (if I remember what folks said about the beta, when there was no limit at all). Basically, every time you zone, kill something, or move around a zone, the server has to perform some sort of calculation on every active quest. So, to raise the cap might result in more server load, or require them to spend time fine-tuning code to work faster with a higher number of active quests.

<div></div><p class="MsoNormal">While we wanted to make it possible to delete Heritage quests and still have them not count toward your total, it wasn't possible at the time. The flag that allows a quest to be deleted is one and the same with the making a quest count against your total. That's part of the current quest system, and would have required significantly more code and design rework to alter that behavior. We didn't make this change lightly, so I'd like to let you know why it was done.</p> <p class="MsoNormal">Often times, we don't give any indication that you are accepting a heritage quest before it appears in your journal. After getting this quest that you may never complete, it was permanently in your quest journal, for better or for worse. While they did not count against your quest total, it can be annoying to have a quest in there that you'll never get to. We also wanted to make heritage quests deleteable because having them in your journal increases your character size. Although it isn't generally too big of a deal, we do store a significant amount of data per quest on your character, and it had the potential to negatively impact performance for some characters. We understand that journal space can be viewed as a commodity, and that you would prefer that Heritage quests did not count toward your quest total. Because of this, we waited to make heritage quests deleteable until after Collection quests got their own journal tab.</p> <p class="MsoNormal">All that said, this change is currently on the Test server. As with all other changes that you see on Test, that doesn't necessarily mean it will appear on Live servers in its current form. Please continue to give us feedback on this and other changes we've made in Live Update #12, and thank you to all who are helping us test EverQuest II.</p>

So why not make a Heritage Quest tab? <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> And what happens when i log in with 1 space left for quests and I have 8 Heritage Quests open? Z <div></div>

<span><blockquote><hr>Amise wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>A while back people were begging for collections to be exempt from the 50 quest limit. <font color="#ff3366"> So the devs complied and at the same time made it so collections didn't count towards the completed quests total</font>.  And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Fast forward to now and pretty much the same thing is happening.  A few people asked for a change and not surprisingly nobody likes the added extra consequences. How come you didn't learn. <span>:smileytongue: The logical reason might be that the journal is coded such that any quest which is a) not a collection and b) is deletable counts towards the limit.    Makes perfect sense to me, because this is the way it actually is.  Tradeskill tasks, heritages, and hallmarks are not deletable and do not count towards the limit, and everything that is deletable and not a collection does count. I don't like the change much either, because it's going to inconvenience me.  But if that's the reason it's been made then it does make sense. To z2xm:  you don't need all those guild raids in your quest journal to receive writs.  All you do is accept the "report to registrar" quest, you don't have to go talk to the registrar.   Just leave the "report" quest sitting there active and you can get writs as normal. </span><p> </p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class="date_text">07-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Do you mean that it doesn't count towards the quest total you see on EQ2Players? If so you are mistaken, that total does take into account your collection quests.</span><div></div>

<DIV>If the problem is<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Often times, we don't give any indication that you are accepting a heritage quest before it appears in your journal. After getting this quest that you may never complete, it was permanently in your quest journal, for better or for worse. While they did not count against your quest total, it can be annoying to have a quest in there that you'll never get to.<BR><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>WHY not just make a note in the quest acceptance window that it is  a heritage quest? That would be better than making them count towards the total number of quests. Deletable or not. Terribly annoying. My test character isnt' going to have a problem because she's got no heritages yet, but should this go live its going to be bad for my main character who's got quite a few heritages and a full journal.<BR></DIV>

When they first made the change the collections weren't showing up in the totals.  Now I think they show on EQ2Players but not in game.  Probably because of the same reason heritages count towards your total now.

<DIV>Being a quest junkie, there is nothing worse than going to a new zone and not having enough room to pick up all the quests that are around you. Especially in zones that have quests deep in the dungeon of yellows that you just fought towards, to kill the mobs that you're either killing now or are at the front of the entrance, and then you discover you're full of quests. Then you furtively search for quests that you can easily pick up again, or delete a book quest where you've only killed a few mobs for the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a difficult balance here... <EM>imposing a quest limit can also impose on a players fun factor.</EM> </DIV> <DIV><BR>While I certainly appreciate the move of the collections quests (now I can actually do them!), I'm uncertain as to whether 50 quests is a proper limit.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Please understand that many of us have 10 heritage quests going at a time, because it's impossible to find a group to do a heritage quest from start to finish in any given day. If you're going to count heritage quests as journal spots, perhaps a quest cap to 60 might be in order. </DIV>

<span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>Often times, we don't give any indication that you are accepting a heritage quest before it appears in your journal. After getting this quest that you may never complete, it was permanently in your quest journal, for better or for worse. While they did not count against your quest total, it can be annoying to have a quest in there that you'll never get to.<hr></blockquote>But don't you have this same issue with Wholesaler and Workshop tasks?</span><div></div>

<P>So what happens if you don't have suffecient space in your journal now to include the heritage quests when this becomes active? Does the space available go negative? </P> <P>Will you be able to complete quests while you are over the limit? Or will you be forced to delete some befor you can continue.  </P> <P>If you delete a heritage quest can you ever get it agin?</P><p>Message Edited by Gantell on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:46 PM</span>

<DIV>I would much rather have the heritage quest stay resident than have them count toward my total.  I'm always near 45 ish on the quest list.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I have no problems with the heritage staying there because they remind me of them.  No, I can't do it now, but I will be able to do it in X levels and I don't have to go back and find the quest NPC, or look anything up on the web to restart it.  I can just go to town with the first part of the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heritage quests should not count toward the total because the the large amounts of time it takes to accomplish them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please don't let this go live.  The disadvantages far outweigh the 1 advantage.</DIV>

<P>Simple give Heritage quests their own tab also. As the game progresses theres going to be a lot more of them I bet.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

<blockquote><hr>Gantell wrote: <P>So what happens if you don't have suffecient space in your journal now to include the heritage quests when this becomes active? Does the space available go negative? </P> <P>Will you be able to complete quests while you are over the limit? Or will you be forced to delete some befor you can continue. </P> <P>If you delete a heritage quest can you ever get it agin?</P><hr></blockquote>If you go over the limit as a result of the change:1) Your quest journal will be at 51 quests (or 60 quests or however many you're over by).2) You cannot recieve any *new* quests while your journal is overflowing3) You are able to complete existing quests4) Once you drop below 50 quests, you can start getting new quests.Tested all of the above.I have not tested to see if you can start a HQ, delete it, then get it again.