Guardians.... Shield user or Dual wielder... My 2 cp

[Baindrag]

I ninja'ed this thread to prove yet another point. This is my favorite one in the thread but quite a few talk about DPS generated agro, and yes Guardians are not beserkers this is just to prove that yes DPS does generate huge amounts of hate. No matter what class you are.

"I play a monk, I do aggree that zerkers are great against multiple targets.  I have never had to worry about losing aggro.  We get good taunts, single and AE.  Once our taunts go off we can keep aggro from damage output alone. "

 

Yenyang Angrydragon

34 Ogre Monk

Kithicore

 

And here is the thread ID to prove others said then not myself.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=7775

 

So tell me why is it that alot of people on this thread are talking about DPS generated hate and how well they can maintain agro with just that and you are telling me I am wrong.

So are all these people wrong too?

Proof its all in the Proof.

Back it up or shut it up.

[Baindrag]

Yet another Ninja'ed thread sorry for doing this I am just disturbed this person is flaming me yet no proof is comming forth from them.

"No true aoes are MUCH more useful. When you have 2+ groups of mobs on you, your AOE damage spell is a very good tool in holding multiple group aggro. " Quote from Tunaboo on this thread.

Thread http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=4789&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Again please tell me again how dps doesnt generate much agro? Seems you are the only one that thinks DPS has little to do with agro. Shall I keep bustin your chops? O yeah I found all this in about 20 mins of research. Was at work bored outta my mind.

Back it up or shut it up.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-16-2005 06:58 PM

[manimal2]

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Baindragon wrote:

 

Damage hate is irrelevant to a guardian you say. I should have clarified my meaning of melee damage generating hate. When I say melee damage I am including melee skills.

So try this since you believe it to be irrelevant. Grab a few friends find a group mob blue con or higher. Have somebody else pull the mob wait a few seconds. Now you use your taunts and buffs to gain agro, time how long it takes you to gain agro. Now repeat this accept this time try my method. Wait a few seconds use Retaliate first. Then use slam,crush,strike,cleave,invade and now use a taunt or two. My way is faster without a doubt. Thus melee damage generates a lot more than a small amount of hate.

 Top of the DPS table????? What game are you playing Strast? Sure mage classes have huge nuke spells. Guess what most are on the same reuse timer and those that are not have huge recast time just ask them. Now what skills do guardians have that share reuse timer. Not very many and those that do its because its an upgrade to the old. What is the reuse timer on our skills? So lets take your mage 500 nuke to the fight. At max they have 3 nukes that big each having a longer reuse timer than a guardians skills. Using all 3 the mage just did 1500 damage. Now track the guardians damage out put. Retaliate 500+ (high reuse time). Cleave 100+ DD 116 dot 2 tics at level 44. Slam 200-300 damage depending on level of spell. Crush 200-300. Ferocious Strike 200-250. Those 3 have same reuse timer jfyi. Invade 150-200 damage. Charge 150ish faster reuse than cleave. I can cast all of those faster than the mage can cast his/her 3 nukes and some of my reuse timers will be back up gain to start the chain again before the mages. So tally up the total. 1500 mage damage. Using the low end of guardian skill damage you come up with roughly 1732 damage. Yes it will be different numbers depending on how hard your skill’s actually hit.

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You must have like a lot of power and power regen to be spamming combat arts and taunts like you lead us to believe.

 

If you are smart about your taunts and buffs, it's really not that hard to keep aggro without having to cycle through every hate generator in every one of your 50 hotbars. 

I love pulling the 2nd mob with entrench while the first is about to die, if I spam every ability I have each fight, I can't chain pull. 

 

Are you the fighter version of the mage that is always low on power after every fight in an xp group?

 

But if you are talking theoretically, what guardians can do on 1 normal mob, as in you kill 1 normal xp type mob and you are done pack up and game over, then yes, knock yourself out open up your spellbook and click on every ability 1 by 1 during the fight.

 

I just don't see you chain pulling yellow cons at your level using your tactics for an hour or 2 on end.

[potatotr0ll]

if you are a guardian without a shield, yu picked the wrong class, should of went Beserker I say.  How yu going to guard anything?  Use that wall yu can strap to your arm, its there for a reason.  Most of a guardians skills are based off of soaking up damage, might as well go all out with what yu got.  Tower shield blocks tons of hits, and gives AC.

[Mentin]

As for the HTL argument: My understanding of HTL is that it uses the damage inflicted by the weapon as taunt on all mobs in the encounter. So only weapon setup dps will affect the efficiency of HTL, weapon speeds do not matter.

 

(Slower weapon = less HTL hits, but bigger hits)

[Baindrag]

I totally agree You cant not go full bore all the time or you run out of power quickly. Since you ask though I drink level 50 superior drink and i usually have a guild bard in my group. So power usage isnt a big problem. HTL is a totally different thread dont know why anything was said on here about it other than stating its a tuant. Anyhow use a 2 hander mentin bascially you retorted just about what i said the PRO"s are for using 1h/shield or 2h weapon.

 

 

EDITED: When I wrote this I was at work and did not have the ability to look and see exactly what drink I had.. I was incorrect saying lvl 50 Superior drink and it will be pointed out in later post by others. I spoke wrongly. I.E. I was wrong I drink Fuzzlecutters 6000. its lvl 50 but not superior. Sorry for the mixup.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-22-2005 08:45 AM

[Baindrag]

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potatotr0ll wrote:
if you are a guardian without a shield, yu picked the wrong class, should of went Beserker I say.  How yu going to guard anything?  Use that wall yu can strap to your arm, its there for a reason.  Most of a guardians skills are based off of soaking up damage, might as well go all out with what yu got.  Tower shield blocks tons of hits, and gives AC.

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You guard by using Sentinel and that line of buffs...Even with out a shield i can self buff my AC with in 200ac of a beserker wearing the same gear same level but using a shield set up. What I loose by DW i regain in HP, and parry. With another guardian all I am missing is roughly 600AC +/- 100 depending on shield. I gain parry where i loose avodiance. Like my post said its personal choice... I listed the pros and cons of each way. WOULD PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO SAY ONE WAY IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER ITS NOT. ITS HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY YOUR GUARDIAN THIS POST JUST TELLS YOU PROS AND CONS I DONT CARE IF YOU WIELD A CUCUMBER ITS YOUR CHOICE. me stating the pros and cons helps others that are intrested. If you use a shiled thats great but dont tell me im wrong for not using one ITS MY FLIPPIN CHOICE. Now if I listed a pro or Con that is wrong by all means post why its wrong and your PROOF.

[Wasuna]

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Baindragon wrote:

 

You guard by using Sentinel and that line of buffs...Even with out a shield i can self buff my AC with in 200ac of a beserker wearing the same gear same level but using a shield set up. What I loose by DW i regain in HP, and parry. With another guardian all I am missing is roughly 600AC +/- 100 depending on shield. I gain parry where i loose avodiance. Like my post said its personal choice... I listed the pros and cons of each way. WOULD PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO SAY ONE WAY IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER ITS NOT. ITS HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY YOUR GUARDIAN THIS POST JUST TELLS YOU PROS AND CONS I DONT CARE IF YOU WIELD A CUCUMBER ITS YOUR CHOICE. me stating the pros and cons helps others that are intrested. If you use a shiled thats great but dont tell me im wrong for not using one ITS MY FLIPPIN CHOICE. Now if I listed a pro or Con that is wrong by all means post why its wrong and your PROOF.

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The problem here is that your posting on the Guardian thread with an idea that 90% of all Guardians disagree with. Let me state what most here have arrived at through their experiance.

 

1. Play however you want to. Nobody cares that you play how you like. They care that you try to provide information to the community that most do not agree with.

 

2. Shields are better when you are the main tank in group. They help a TON. This is not preference it's fact. So, one way it better that another when your in a group. Many many people have tested this over and over.

[Corv]

Bear in mind that mana not used to heal you can be used to inflict damage, so overall group DPS may not actually rise when you're using DW or 2H weapons. (In extreme cases it may drop dramatically in fact!) Don't assume that everything is okay simply because your healer isn't calling for breaks to regen power. Most good players know what their core job is and what isn't. For a healer, damage is secondary, so when you're guzzling up their mana by not using a shield they just cut back on the damage spells so they can keep up. That extra 5dps you get from 2H or DW weapons may give you a warm fuzzy, but you may actually be cutting a lot more than that from your group's overall damage output. I'm not saying you can't have a great exp session not using a shield. I'm just pointing out that from a min/max perspective, there *is* a difference and it's not simply a matter of "personal choice". All other things being equal, refusing to use a shield does limit what your group can do.

[Stra]

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Baindragon wrote:I totally agree You cant not go full bore all the time or you run out of power quickly. Since you ask though I drink level 50 superior drink and i usually have a guild bard in my group. So power usage isnt a big problem. HTL is a totally different thread dont know why anything was said on here about it other than stating its a tuant. Anyhow use a 2 hander mentin bascially you retorted just about what i said the PRO"s are for using 1h/shield or 2h weapon.

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Also so much fluff. There are no recipes that can make superior drink. You can only get it as drops or quest rewards and it wont last you very long at that. Dude, you blow your credibility all the time. I agree that you should have chosen berzerker because it seems that is the way you are playing your guardian.

[Mordock of the Highwynd]

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Strast wrote:

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Baindragon wrote:
I totally agree You cant not go full bore all the time or you run out of power quickly. Since you ask though I drink level 50 superior drink and i usually have a guild bard in my group. So power usage isnt a big problem. HTL is a totally different thread dont know why anything was said on here about it other than stating its a tuant. Anyhow use a 2 hander mentin bascially you retorted just about what i said the PRO"s are for using 1h/shield or 2h weapon.

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Also so much fluff. There are no recipes that can make superior drink. You can only get it as drops or quest rewards and it wont last you very long at that. Dude, you blow your credibility all the time. I agree that you should have chosen berzerker because it seems that is the way you are playing your guardian.

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Yeah, Strast, as a provisioner I looked twice at the "superior" drinks comment too.

If Baindragon is right, then we have a winner for unbeatable character.  He can wear the best armor in the game.  He can use any weapon in the game.  He can mitagate damage like crazy.  And he can out-damage a mage.  I wonder if he can invis.

SoE does not need to nerf Guardians, though.  They just need to nerf Baindragon.

[Niter1d]

And we need a better fun spell Could have at least given us another one for our other hand to make it useful in raves

 

 

When soloing, i use dual wield. When grouped, I use my shield. In groups our job is to stay alive long enough to keep everyone else alive otherwise we probably will all die. That massive amount of hp and stats is quite godsend when having to endure long battles. I just got a guard of grumm last night too  What a nifty piece of equipment! Goes great with a ghoulbane.

 

 

Soph - 33 Guardian

[Vyrance]

95% of the time in a group you do not need to use a shield.  only time i find myself using a shield are against some harder named and raids.

[Vyrance]

death40k - im still soloing blue-con group mobs in feerrott at 44 =)  so you're still able to!  i tried a blue-con named too and he killed me when he was at 5% =(  i dual wield it though.

[Baindrag]

EDIT: Dup post

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-22-2005 08:49 AM

[Baindrag]

 So I typed the wrong drink I drink Fuzzlecutters... anyhow thats unimportant. Its just average.

 

 

Thank god for SoE patching to show Mitigation and Avoidance.

Not 90% of guardians disagree with my view and esp now since the new patch.

Atleast 15 Guardains I have talked to on my server have droped the shield.

Check it out for yourselves now that you can actually see what the shield does for you in numbers.

The average gain from using a shield over those not using is 4-7% avoidance boost.

Now unequip that Shield and equip 2h or DW. Notice the loss of 4-7% of avoidance but look carefully at your mitigation.

For those that have not figured out put your cursor over the # of mitigation and it will tell you what % you mitigate at.

When you switch from shield to 2h watch the avoidance drop 4-7% but notice your mitigation go up when you ditch the shield.

Holy smokes isnt that some shiznit.

So like my original post when you ditch the shiled you take a wee bit more damage but you double your dps. Which helps in hate generation and how fast the mob is going to die. Mob being alive for shorter period's of time means less damage it is going to do to you over all thats simple math.

 

Sure you are going to want to use a shield at times. Epic encounters lvl 50+ but everyday exp mobs and named DW/2h is the way to go thanks again SoE for showing the peeps that had to criticize me that shields are not all they thought they were.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-21-2005 03:57 PM

[Stra]

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Baindragon wrote:

 So I typed the wrong drink I drink Fuzzlecutters... anyhow thats unimportant. Its just average.

 

 

Thank god for SoE patching to show Mitigation and Avoidance.

Not 90% of guardians disagree with my view and esp now since the new patch.

Atleast 15 Guardains I have talked to on my server have droped the shield.

Check it out for yourselves now that you can actually see what the shield does for you in numbers.

The average gain from using a shield over those not using is 4-7% avoidance boost.

Now unequip that Shield and equip 2h or DW. Notice the loss of 4-7% of avoidance but look carefully at your mitigation.

For those that have not figured out put your cursor over the # of mitigation and it will tell you what % you mitigate at.

When you switch from shield to 2h watch the avoidance drop 4-7% but notice your mitigation go up when you ditch the shield.

Holy smokes isnt that some shiznit.

So like my original post when you ditch the shiled you take a wee bit more damage but you double your dps. Which helps in hate generation and how fast the mob is going to die. Mob being alive for shorter period's of time means less damage it is going to do to you over all thats simple math.

 

Sure you are going to want to use a shield at times. Epic encounters lvl 50+ but everyday exp mobs and named DW/2h is the way to go thanks again SoE for showing the peeps that had to criticize me that shields are not all they thought they were.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-21-2005 03:57 PM

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You are still playing a guardian like a berzerker. We have said this before but lets try again ... THE DPS OF A GUARDIAN IS IRRELEVANT. You arent going to be outdamaging scouts or mages or berzerkers or monks. If you intend to maintain aggro by staying at the top of the DPS table then you are our of your bloody mind. You wont. Let me say that again ... you WONT. You MUST use the other tools at your disposal to maintain aggro, its a shame you havent taken the advice of other guardians in this thread who have told you how. The loss of 4% to 7% avoidance is TRAGIC to a guardian! Over a fight with a mob raining in 40 or 50k damage on you, that is 2800 to 3500 points more that your cleric has to heal. Furthermore, this isnt even counting epic fights and so on. You need to scrape and scrimp and upgrade to get every tiny point of avoidance, mitigation, AC and defence that you possibly can. Mitigation and avoidance are SO important that whether the mobs encircle you or are all in front of you can make the diff between a group that wastes 7 yellows and a group that gets wiped by the same encounter. You are not a berzerker. You are not there to kill the mobs. That is not your job. Your job is to tank them until hell freezes over if necessary. Your job is to take hits from 5 to 10 mobs without dropping and letting the group get wiped. Your job is to HOLD the mobs on you until your PARTNERS can kill it. If you are taking damage traits (attacks) over defensive ones, you are nuts. If you are taking power regen over health and stamina, you are nuts. You should just save your guild and friends the agony and reroll as a berzerker.

[Stra]

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Vyrance wrote:95% of the time in a group you do not need to use a shield.  only time i find myself using a shield are against some harder named and raids.

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That depends on what you take in group. If you are always fighting greens and blues, you can get away with it. I rarely group on those unless I am doing writs or have some other alterior motive. My groups attack things that are HARD. Like level 30 and 31 in varsoons where EVERYTHING is yellow and orange. If you are content to grind it out on greens than your mitigation probably wont be an issue.

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Vyrance wrote:death40k - im still soloing blue-con group mobs in feerrott at 44 =)  so you're still able to!  i tried a blue-con named too and he killed me when he was at 5% =(  i dual wield it though.

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Its a toss up when soloing really. Do you dual and try to kill him faster or do you mitigate and try to kill him slower. Dual wielding or 2 handing when off tank or soloing is personal choice and a whole different ballgame than when taking hits for 5 to 10 white and yellow mob encounters in a group. In short Vyrance, you are doing nothign wrong so long as you dust off that shield for the grouping.

Message Edited by Strast on 03-22-2005 11:05 AM

[Baindrag]

Dude your guardian must be extremly weak. If you can not kill group mobs that are higher level than you without takeing loads of damage like you are talking about. I tank level 51 Named in obelisk right after the tower events without sheild and have zero problem and since I bet you dont know what the tower event is in Obelisk it spawns 3 sets of lvl 49-50 Night bloods 10 at the time then after you finish the last set the lvl 51 named spawns and agros instantly.. Myself and my cleric have plenty Power left for the named when it pops o yeah the cleric I am speakin of just dinged 41.. So stuff it dude either your guardian is a total wuss or you are just talking to run your mouth. If you are worried about 4-7% avodiance you need to find some better gear cause you really truely suck. Seems you are getting stuck that I rely soley on my dps to maintain agro. I never once said that you [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Wish you could PvP in EQ2.... You think what you want mister shields are the win cause im so weak i cant afford to loose 4-7% avoidance.. For others that have read this thread im not telling you to D/W this whole thread was just to let others know you CAN D/W EFFECTIVELY. And once again I will state that this whole thread was supposed to just give a brief discription of what you gain or loose by using a specific style.. Dipwad always post im wrong, yet its not about wrong or right its about how you want to play.. You keep saying I should have played a Beserker... Why? So I would have less HP boost and Defense boost.. I wanted a guardian and I wanted to have good dps output IT CAN BE DONE AND DONE WELL. Just because you believe all guardians should use a shield doesnt make it so. Your post are so Egotistical due to the fact that all you seem to beable to spew forth from your brain is Dragonsbain dont know what he is talking about.. but the funny fact is I do know alot about D/W and what I can and cant do with it. You are the one that does not know because you are so busy trying to prove me wrong when you CAN NOT because the game was designed to support Guardians D/W ability or THEY WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT IN YOU [Removed for Content]..... if D/W was not a viable option for a guardian. Time and time again I have proved you know very little about D/W and even proved you know very little about shields. It took me posting a quote from a Dev to show you that shields only grant avoidance...Though you still missed it until I pointed out it was a DEV that said it... Just for you Dev is short for DEVELOPER.. You then stated shields make a huge difference.. I dont know what math you do but 4-7% is not a HUGE difference. I never once said you are stupid for using a shield its your choice. I do think you are stupid for trying to prove that D/W is wrong when in fact its not others wise like said above THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE IT AN OPTION.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-22-2005 08:42 AM

[Banditman]

Is your Enter key broken?  Spacebar too?

 

Keyboards are pretty cheap.  Need a loan?

[Baindrag]

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Strast wrote:

 

You are still playing a guardian like a berzerker. We have said this before but lets try again ...

THE DPS OF A GUARDIAN IS IRRELEVANT.

You arent going to be outdamaging scouts or mages or berzerkers or monks. If you intend to maintain aggro by staying at the top of the DPS table then you are our of your bloody mind. You wont. Let me say that again ... you WONT. You MUST use the other tools at your disposal to maintain aggro, its a shame you havent taken the advice of other guardians in this thread who have told you how.

The loss of 4% to 7% avoidance is TRAGIC to a guardian! Over a fight with a mob raining in 40 or 50k damage on you, that is 2800 to 3500 points more that your cleric has to heal. Furthermore, this isnt even counting epic fights and so on. You need to scrape and scrimp and upgrade to get every tiny point of avoidance, mitigation, AC and defence that you possibly can. Mitigation and avoidance are SO important that whether the mobs encircle you or are all in front of you can make the diff between a group that wastes 7 yellows and a group that gets wiped by the same encounter.

You are not a berzerker. You are not there to kill the mobs. That is not your job. Your job is to tank them until hell freezes over if necessary. Your job is to take hits from 5 to 10 mobs without dropping and letting the group get wiped. Your job is to HOLD the mobs on you until your PARTNERS can kill it. If you are taking damage traits (attacks) over defensive ones, you are nuts. If you are taking power regen over health and stamina, you are nuts. You should just save your guild and friends the agony and reroll as a berzerker.

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When did I say I took traits towards DPS? I took all the traits towards defense and HP. Right now my self buffed HP is right at 5k. WITHOUT SHIELD. I do not ever recall saying anything like that. Also If you had of done what I said take off your shield and watch your mitigation go up. SO yes you do loose 4-7% avoidance yet you gain mitigation.. I agree you are still loosing some defense over all. Is it enough to make a huge difference on everyday mobs I dont see it.. Does it make a huge difference on long epic fights YES and I have said this. On mobs that are Epic and take 10 mins + to kill you should use a shield. On group mobs that you are just EXPin or trying for named mobs that are not epic and one groupable you dont need a shield that 4-7% is not going to make a huge differnce. DPS does help you with hate.. I never said it on its own will keep you on top. It is one of many tools to keep agro.. Other wise how does that assassian sometimes pull agro from you and we all know it happens rarely.. They have tuants? Nope... On their DPS they can sometimes pull agro so dont sit there and tell me DPS does not play a factor in hate generation. Do not be one of these people that can not see past their own feet. The game is changing and will keep changing if you are stuck on the mentality that you have to use a shield all the time you will be left behind. If I am totaly wrong why did the Dev's include D/W for guardians. Do you not think that they would make it a very viable option for guardians?

 

Anyway for those Guardians comming up dont let this thread make you feel you have to play one way or your wrong. You gain benifits from using a shield you also gain benifits using D/W... Try each out on your own and decide for yourself. Ignore my rantings towards Strast they actually are pointless.... Its all about how you want to play. Just do not be afraid to go against the grain. One last think you Riposte alot more (D/W) in group encounters than using 1h/shield set up... Yet you also get Riposted more in return. So if the mob is killing you on Riposte switch to 2h or equip your shield Strast is right it can make the difference between wipe and win. Also do not be afraid of mana usage by your healers when D/W... In all the exp groups I am in myself and the cleric are generally the only ones with any power left after each encounter. I keep my scouts and mages low on power most of the time. I let them med when its time for the named.... Also I do alot of Events.. Meaning you start the event a set of mobs spawn you kill them more spawn ... kill them and more spawn.... kill those and then named comes at you.. We do these all the time and have plenty of mana left and I am D/W. Try out each type and choose for yourself but dont let anybody else decide for you how you should play. We can all see Strast will probably use a shield at all times, while myself I wont use a shield accept on lvl 50+ epic mobs... Its my choice as it is his choice... There is alot of good info on this thread so use it to develop your own play style.
O yeah the patch did not change how mitigation/avoidance or any of that worked they only changed how it was displayed.

[Baindrag]

EDIT: Dupe post

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-22-2005 09:21 AM

[Timzil]

I only have under 4 days played on my Guardian so I'm sure I haven't seen it all, but at level 28 I haven't found a use for a board yet. In my experience, a dead mob does no damage, so I dual wield and kill them quick.

[Banditman]

You are only now coming into the places where mob damage starts to ramp up good.

Sure, a shield may block only 2 or 3 strikes per fight, but when those strikes are for 500's, your Healer will be thanking you.

You are a Guardian.  It is not your job (or mine) to kill the mob.  Thats for the fancy schmancy DPS people to take care of.  We're just here to [Removed for Content] the mob off.

[Stra]

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Baindragon wrote:

Dude your guardian must be extremly weak. If you can not kill group mobs that are higher level than you without takeing loads of damage like you are talking about. I tank level 51 Named in obelisk right after the tower events without sheild and have zero problem and since I bet you dont know what the tower event is in Obelisk it spawns 3 sets of lvl 49-50 Night bloods 10 at the time then after you finish the last set the lvl 51 named spawns and agros instantly.. Myself and my cleric have plenty Power left for the named when it pops o yeah the cleric I am speakin of just dinged 41.. So stuff it dude either your guardian is a total wuss or you are just talking to run your mouth. If you are worried about 4-7% avodiance you need to find some better gear cause you really truely suck. Seems you are getting stuck that I rely soley on my dps to maintain agro. I never once said that you [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Wish you could PvP in EQ2.... You think what you want mister shields are the win cause im so weak i cant afford to loose 4-7% avoidance.. For others that have read this thread im not telling you to D/W this whole thread was just to let others know you CAN D/W EFFECTIVELY. And once again I will state that this whole thread was supposed to just give a brief discription of what you gain or loose by using a specific style.. Dipwad always post im wrong, yet its not about wrong or right its about how you want to play.. You keep saying I should have played a Beserker... Why? So I would have less HP boost and Defense boost.. I wanted a guardian and I wanted to have good dps output IT CAN BE DONE AND DONE WELL. Just because you believe all guardians should use a shield doesnt make it so. Your post are so Egotistical due to the fact that all you seem to beable to spew forth from your brain is Dragonsbain dont know what he is talking about.. but the funny fact is I do know alot about D/W and what I can and cant do with it. You are the one that does not know because you are so busy trying to prove me wrong when you CAN NOT because the game was designed to support Guardians D/W ability or THEY WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT IN YOU [Removed for Content]..... if D/W was not a viable option for a guardian. Time and time again I have proved you know very little about D/W and even proved you know very little about shields. It took me posting a quote from a Dev to show you that shields only grant avoidance...Though you still missed it until I pointed out it was a DEV that said it... Just for you Dev is short for DEVELOPER.. You then stated shields make a huge difference.. I dont know what math you do but 4-7% is not a HUGE difference. I never once said you are stupid for using a shield its your choice. I do think you are stupid for trying to prove that D/W is wrong when in fact its not others wise like said above THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE IT AN OPTION.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-22-2005 08:42 AM

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Am I supposed to read that garbage? Learn how to make paragraphs and coherent sentences. 1) I never though shields gave you mitigation. Thats bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. They give you chance to block. That isnt avoidance, that is a chance on every hit to BLOCK the incomming attack. Dodge give you avoidance, agility gives you avoidance, Blocking is something completely different. 2) Even SOE stated that the mitigation and avoidance numbers leave a lot of things out of the equation. 3) Nobody cares what level you claim to be and it is irrelevant to the discussion so stop trying to impress everyone. 4) You have the option to go naked into a dungeon as well, does that mean you generally should? You have the option to use a green weapon and green armor, does that mean you should? Dual wield on guardian is there for a purpose I am sure. The purpose I can see is the non-main-tanking guardian. When you are off-tanking you become a peeling and dps class and need the boost in DPS. For that, dual wield or 2 handing is good. When I am off-tank I usually dual.

[Stra]

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Banditman wrote:

You are only now coming into the places where mob damage starts to ramp up good.

Sure, a shield may block only 2 or 3 strikes per fight, but when those strikes are for 500's, your Healer will be thanking you.

You are a Guardian.  It is not your job (or mine) to kill the mob.  Thats for the fancy schmancy DPS people to take care of.  We're just here to [Removed for Content] the mob off.

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At level 36 against a double up blue I will block 5 to 10 times per fight. Against clay guardians that hit like a truck, that makes a heck of a lot of difference.