Guardians.... Shield user or Dual wielder... My 2 cp

[Baindrag]

     Level 45 Guardian here Black Burrow server. Here is my 2cp on weapon choice. What you choose to use as your melee setup is personal choice. From what I have seen and experianced here are some pros and cons to each type of guardian.

 

     Shield users..... Sure you gain a huge AC bonus for using a shield so that is the Pro for using it. Here are some of the Con's for using a shield. Lower DPS...why does this matter you may ask. Lower dps means you will spend more time taunting your encounter than actually hitting it to maintain agro. If you rely soley on your taunt skills to maintain agro then use a shield. So the con is Less dps, more power use, higher chance of loosing agro.

 

     2h weapon users..... (Pro) You gain hard hitting melee during fast encounters you dish out some serious damage which gains you some extra hate generation. (Con) You sacrifice some stats though in some cases not very much. In long fights dual wielders are going to out DPS you and eventually draw agro from you unless you spend your power bar on taunts.

 

     Dual Wielders.....(Pro's) You will most likely be at the top of the DPS table in this form (using your melee skills of course) You generate more Hate VIA dual than using taunts. During long fights you do not have to rely on your power bar to keep agro but instead can spend it on doing massive amounts of damage. You generally gain some serious stat boost using 2 weapons vs shield or 2h. (Con) you loose a huge chunk of AC using this form, but if you think about it this way its not a con. Yes you take more damage yet you are dealing more damage which kill's the mob faster meaning by the end of the round it has hit you less thus you took less total damage than using a shield.

 

     Again it is personal choice in what you decide to use as your melee setup. Though it will benifit each of us to try each form and find the one that fits you best. Also one last tiny tip that most already know. Keep atleast one type of every weapon on you at all times. Meaning 1 pierce 1 slash 1 crush. Some mobs are immune to certain types of damage thus a good tank always has one of each type weapon in a bag at all times. My personal choice is dual wield my dps ranges from 80-120 depending on the encounter type. Thats at level 45 using all my melee skills. To me Taunt is a last ditch effort to regain agro on a mob. Yes I ae taunt the very beginning of the encounter which im sure all tanks do Hope this helps somebody out. If you want to try out dual wield and are around the level of 35 get some Wraith Bone maces they are very good weapons at this level for dishing out high dps.

 

    

[Death4]

I like this post a lot.  Great info.  I myself keep a 2hd of all types, 1hd of all types, and DW of all types on me constantly.  It might seem excessive, but i'm a weapon freak anyhow =).  The only thing I disagree about is the part about taking less damage DWing than 1hd/Shield.  Since shield is avoidance and not AC the fights do seem more drawn out, but I have other classes for dps.  I constantly get Blocks on mob skills, which are the main stay of damage.  Although, does dual wielding increase your parry chance 2x?  If so, that might be a more viable option, but I haven't seen any testing.  Solo though, DW all the way.

[Baindrag]

  Hum I am not entirely sure about the numbers. Good point/question though. To me though the quicker a mob dies the less damage total it can do in the encounter so by that method if I double my dps by dualing then I take about the same total damage as a shield user. I could be wrong though Even if you do take more damage dualing you still generate a ton more hate dualing than using a shield.

[Tsimhno]

I'm a SK, I use a shield all the time... I find it much better... I have used a log file reader and determined that my DPS is actually higher with a shield... well... considers that 70% of my damage is done with spells, HOs, and CAs.

[Baindrag]

  Psst your an Sk not a guardian the post is meant for Guardians hince its in the Guardian section Not comparing weild styles of other classes in this thread

[RafaelSmith]

When tanking anthing but greenies I use my shield. Healers can tell the difference. Tanking means just that...standing there keeping the mobs attention whils soaking up as much DMG as possible. Shield definately make a difference. Most out DPS comes from specials not our melee...specials do the same regardless of what kinda weapon you have. I actually prefer a slower/higher DMG 1hander for tanking. Depending on the situation I sometimes even use a single DW weapon...PGT with a shield. When soloing its a different story...my job then is to kill the mob before it kills me. So MAX DPS is how I achieve that. Depending on my current selection of weapons I either am 2h or DW when soloing.But like someone said...its nice that we can choose different ways to do our job.. What works for me and my group my not work for another. Being able to choose between shield/no shield...2hand..DW...DW/shield gives us alot of options which is cool. But in the end im usually only concerned with taking DMG and not with a few extra points of raw melee DPS.

[Oakwood]

I have not tested this to any great extent, but there is another way dual wield can help with agro, especially at lower levels.  If you are using HTL, every hit has a chance to proc aggro.  Dual wield weapons gives twice as many attacks, often more than that since DW weapons tend to each be faster then comperable 1h weapons.  At lower levels, can HTL generate a large chunk of your total aggro, and DW+HTL is often more than double 1h+HTL.  As the level gets higher HTL becomes less and less of our total aggro potential, and the significance of this drops off.  But when you pull group mobs, this can really add up if you can spare the AC. 

 

I think the argument that (DW=more_dps=faster_mob_death) compared to (1h+shield=more_avoidance=less_hits) to take less damage per encounter is a stretch.  I would need to see significant parsing on this to buy into it before I junk my shield.  But on encounters with mobs that do not hit very hard, I can see the DPS as being usefull.

[Baindrag]

     For every 67-120 hit you do I do 4 hits at 18-52 Do the math. Now include procking weapons. For every Proc you get on a 2h/1h weapon a dualer probably has proced twice or even 3 times. Thus more damage and agro. When your power bar runs out in long fights what is your chance of maintaining agro ? Of course I have forgotten that most of the time I group with the same people and one member is a lvl 49 pally but I always tank due to agro issues. He does cast an ac buff on me that helps alot with damage taken i must confess. I bring this up for two fold reason. One having a pally in group as a secondary tank helps tremendously. Second with this lvl 49 pally in my group his gear is full set of Ebon and he wields EBBC jfyi He makes me tank because simply put when I dual he can not keep agro from me and I only use my melee skill's no taunts. This is how I know without a doubt that dualing will generate more hate than using shields/2h.

 

     Like the original post its all pros and cons to each form... It all comes down to what style you prefer.. If you prefer hard hitting action and not relying on your taunts then go dual.. If you prefer to stand stout and take a beating go with shields and taunt skills. One thing im sure all Guardians can agree on is we are the Tanks EQ1 should have had. Man I have more fun playing my EQ2 Guard than I ever did playing my warrior on EQ1. So much to choose from and there are so many ways I can make my Tank play the way I want and still be very effective. Either way try out all methods of fighting and choose the one that best defines your play style. I like in your face smash mouth play style. I love seing Dragonsbain at the top of the DPS list at the end of a fight and the scouts monks and wizzy's are going ummm [Removed for Content] is going on. Lol the only time I lose agro is when I get up to go get a soda or a snack during a fight lol.  In truth soon as I finish EBBC I will be using it the majority of the time but dont tell nobody its secret

[RafaelSmith]

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Baindragon wrote:

One thing im sure all Guardians can agree on is we are the Tanks EQ1 should have had.

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So very true. As much as I think EQ2 still has alot of growing to do in terms of community, character differentiation,etc when compared to EQ1 I em enjoying my Guardian 100x more than I did my Warrior of 5+ years in EQ1. Its nice actually feeling like I have control over the outcome of a fight. Its nice actually contributing in the DPS department. Its nice not needing a Cleric and Chanter just to walk across a zone weather I had 100hp or 12khp. Essentially it nice having stuff to do beyond that 15min of fame every weekend raid =P

[Wasuna]

If your in a group and tanking then use a shiled. Later on when you can easily take 3-4 reposites for 500+ you'll want a slow one hander. A guardian will never keep agro off a mage or scout going full out in DPS by matching DPS. You will be buffing, taunting and cycling your high DPS/High Taunt abilities. The tanks job is to taunt anyway they can and if your assassin group mate doesn't out DPS you and make you work for agro then you need to get them a new weapon and show them how to use their abilities.

[Death4]

Now, I'm by no means a high level guardian, so I have no where near the experiences you all have and for all I know things change higher up, but I've noticed when I solo blue^^ I can only use a shield as that's where a ton of my avoidance comes from.  Course, these are level 20 - 21 blues, and i'm a 23 Guardian.  I'm betting that that ability won't last long higher up =)  But I digress, I enjoy DW and 2hd for soloing over S/S but only for green^^ and up to yellow solos.

Where that HTL argument is probably very valid higher up, at lower levels i've observed that 33% with a 1.7 swing speed is quite sufficent for aggro, maybe overkill.  A single AE Taunt does it for the entire fight. That'll probably change sometime soon though.  I'm definetly going to give DW and 2hd a shot for tanking after this convo.

[ArcisFort]

this post upsets me.  there is no way we can keep aggro at higher lvl's (40+) by DPS.  I see scouts hit for 2000HP.  My best Mellee hit is almost 700 but thats once in a blue moon most the time its for 400-500.  If you think scouts do high dmg anyone grouped with a wizzy as of late. 

 

This post just screws up lower lvl Guardians trying to learn their class.

 

I'll make this easy,   Solo= DW or 2HD..

 

Groups=  1HD and shield  anything over a blue con. 

 

 

I'n groups use your max defence skills, if you want to DPS go play another tank  ( I.E. zerker or monk or something) or better yet go play another class all together,  such as wizzy or [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].......

[Dr]

*shrug* I use DW 99% of the time in my xp groups in PF, LS and Sol Eye, killing mobs up to Level 51.  My regular group healers, dont complain and dont even notice a difference in damage taken.  I find DW with our Defense and AC buffs is perfectly fine for general xp grinding.

 

For the big stuff, I always switch in a shield for the AC and the extra blocks.

 

 

[Wasuna]

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Druv wrote:

*shrug* I use DW 99% of the time in my xp groups in PF, LS and Sol Eye, killing mobs up to Level 51.  My regular group healers, dont complain and dont even notice a difference in damage taken.  I find DW with our Defense and AC buffs is perfectly fine for general xp grinding.

 

For the big stuff, I always switch in a shield for the AC and the extra blocks.

 

 

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The game is not designed around a two healer group. If you think it is then put your shiled on more often. Level 51 stuff can hit for 500-600 with just a ripisote and with DW you'd get 3-5 of those a fight. Your wasting your groups potentional.

I also group with two healers cause we are friends and if they have to do more than slap a few patches on me and a regen they start complaining over Team Speak. I'm not uber but I try and do what I can for the group.

Message Edited by Wasuna on 03-15-2005 03:57 PM

[Wulfe]

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Baindragon wrote:

     For every 67-120 hit you do I do 4 hits at 18-52 Do the math. Now include procking weapons. For every Proc you get on a 2h/1h weapon a dualer probably has proced twice or even 3 times. Thus more damage and agro. When your power bar runs out in long fights what is your chance of maintaining agro ? Of course I have forgotten that most of the time I group with the same people and one member is a lvl 49 pally but I always tank due to agro issues. He does cast an ac buff on me that helps alot with damage taken i must confess. I bring this up for two fold reason. One having a pally in group as a secondary tank helps tremendously. Second with this lvl 49 pally in my group his gear is full set of Ebon and he wields EBBC jfyi He makes me tank because simply put when I dual he can not keep agro from me and I only use my melee skill's no taunts. This is how I know without a doubt that dualing will generate more hate than using shields/2h.

 

     Like the original post its all pros and cons to each form... It all comes down to what style you prefer.. If you prefer hard hitting action and not relying on your taunts then go dual.. If you prefer to stand stout and take a beating go with shields and taunt skills. One thing im sure all Guardians can agree on is we are the Tanks EQ1 should have had. Man I have more fun playing my EQ2 Guard than I ever did playing my warrior on EQ1. So much to choose from and there are so many ways I can make my Tank play the way I want and still be very effective. Either way try out all methods of fighting and choose the one that best defines your play style. I like in your face smash mouth play style. I love seing Dragonsbain at the top of the DPS list at the end of a fight and the scouts monks and wizzy's are going ummm [Removed for Content] is going on. Lol the only time I lose agro is when I get up to go get a soda or a snack during a fight lol.  In truth soon as I finish EBBC I will be using it the majority of the time but dont tell nobody its secret

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Do you have any data that dw weapons proc twice as much than 2h? I thought (from scout forums and their extensive poison proc research) from my own experience that DW weapon has roughly half of the proc rate of the 2h (or 1h). Even at the time when I had 2 procing dw's (pgt and ssoy) my crook would proc the same or sometimes even more. Also, I never have taunt issues with paladins if they know how to play eg. they try to avoid their high agro skills (which they actually have planty) but the monk I group almost daily has some insane delay 2h and there my dw does not help one bit. If I dont remember cycle taunts I will lose agro.Period.

And you do not do any more damage with EBBC than with crook. Actually when fighting groups, you do less damage. 

[Dr]

Wasuna - I should clarify, most of the time we do have a Defiler and a Inquisitor in our regular group, however the Inquisitor I group with often comes on his own.  He is the one that told me he didnt notice any huge difference in dmg taken with DW over Shield/1h from a healing perspective.

 

As I said, for all the big stuff 1h/Shield is what I use.

[Stra]

?!?!?!?

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Baindragon wrote:Level 45 Guardian here Black Burrow server. Here is my 2cp on weapon choice. What you choose to use as your melee setup is personal choice. From what I have seen and experianced here are some pros and cons to each type of guardian.

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How the hell did you get to 45 while being so poorly informed? (or perhaps he isnt 45, we can never be sure of course). The fact is that you seem to have guardians confused with berzerkers or possibly scouts. We are NOT THERE TO KILL THE MOB. That is the job of the scouts and mages and secondary tanks. We are there to soak up huge portions of damage.

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Baindragon wrote:Shield users..... Sure you gain a huge AC bonus for using a shield so that is the Pro for using it. Here are some of the Con's for using a shield. Lower DPS...why does this matter you may ask. Lower dps means you will spend more time taunting your encounter than actually hitting it to maintain agro. If you rely soley on your taunt skills to maintain agro then use a shield. So the con is Less dps, more power use, higher chance of loosing agro.

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Ok, here is where you blow your credibility with me. First of all you seem to count the shield only for AC. You seem to completely neglect the blocking skill which mitigates a huge portion of incomming damage especially with fast attack scout type mobs and nameds. My high block skill is probably the reason that blue solo non-caster mobs pretty much cant touch me. Second of all, I dont know where you get silly ideas about aggro mainenance. If you think taunts and DPS are the only way for a guardian to maintain aggro then you are really clueless. Guardians have at least 4 types of things that gain them aggro. 1) Taunts 2) Group buffs (make all the taunts look like garbage), 3) Procs (master rages) 4) Protecting other players (the allay-sentinel line) I NEVER loose aggro except if we get adds, or someone does something stupid. Even if I loose it, I always have it back quickly.

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Baindragon wrote:2h weapon users..... (Pro) You gain hard hitting melee during fast encounters you dish out some serious damage which gains you some extra hate generation. (Con) You sacrifice some stats though in some cases not very much. In long fights dual wielders are going to out DPS you and eventually draw agro from you unless you spend your power bar on taunts.

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Damage hate is irrelevant to a guardian. Hate generation based on damage is 1 to 1. A guardian doesnt get extra hate over a mage when both do the same damage. If you think that any guardian, no matter what weapon he has, can generate the damage of a mage or scout then you are batty. Second of all, damage based hate generation is small. Thats why I can maintain hate with my wizzard 2 levels higher raining in his super nukes. Hate generation from taunts is far more effective and the most effective is from group buffs. This is why it should be a cardinal sin for any member of your group to cast a group buff after combat starts.

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Baindragon wrote:Dual Wielders.....(Pro's) You will most likely be at the top of the DPS table in this form (using your melee skills of course) You generate more Hate VIA dual than using taunts. During long fights you do not have to rely on your power bar to keep agro but instead can spend it on doing massive amounts of damage. You generally gain some serious stat boost using 2 weapons vs shield or 2h. (Con) you loose a huge chunk of AC using this form, but if you think about it this way its not a con. Yes you take more damage yet you are dealing more damage which kill's the mob faster meaning by the end of the round it has hit you less thus you took less total damage than using a shield.

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TOP OF DPS TABLE???????!!??!?!?! What game are you playing? You can do more with your dual wielding guardian than a mage dropping 20 500 point nukes in a fight or the assasin backstabbing 30 times in an encounter? Whatever you are smoking, its GOT to be illegal.

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Baindragon wrote:Again it is personal choice in what you decide to use as your melee setup. Though it will benifit each of us to try each form and find the one that fits you best. Also one last tiny tip that most already know. Keep atleast one type of every weapon on you at all times. Meaning 1 pierce 1 slash 1 crush. Some mobs are immune to certain types of damage thus a good tank always has one of each type weapon in a bag at all times. My personal choice is dual wield my dps ranges from 80-120 depending on the encounter type. Thats at level 45 using all my melee skills. To me Taunt is a last ditch effort to regain agro on a mob. Yes I ae taunt the very beginning of the encounter which im sure all tanks do Hope this helps somebody out. If you want to try out dual wield and are around the level of 35 get some Wraith Bone maces they are very good weapons at this level for dishing out high dps.

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Its not personal choice. Any guardian main tanking without a shield is a doofus. Any guardian that doesnt know that aggro from combat damage is nothing is uninformed. Heck in some named encounters I barely attack at all. If you are a guardian main tanking you should be using a tower shield and the fastest weapon you can find (because HTL chance to encounter taunt is based on successful hit). <== note the periodAdvice like yours is what is making guardians run to the forum complaining that we are gimped.

[RafaelSmith]

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Wulfeen wrote:

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Baindragon wrote:

For every 67-120 hit you do I do 4 hits at 18-52 Do the math. Now include procking weapons. For every Proc you get on a 2h/1h weapon a dualer probably has proced twice or even 3 times. Thus more damage and agro. When your power bar runs out in long fights what is your chance of maintaining agro ? Of course I have forgotten that most of the time I group with the same people and one member is a lvl 49 pally but I always tank due to agro issues. He does cast an ac buff on me that helps alot with damage taken i must confess. I bring this up for two fold reason. One having a pally in group as a secondary tank helps tremendously. Second with this lvl 49 pally in my group his gear is full set of Ebon and he wields EBBC jfyi He makes me tank because simply put when I dual he can not keep agro from me and I only use my melee skill's no taunts. This is how I know without a doubt that dualing will generate more hate than using shields/2h.

Like the original post its all pros and cons to each form... It all comes down to what style you prefer.. If you prefer hard hitting action and not relying on your taunts then go dual.. If you prefer to stand stout and take a beating go with shields and taunt skills. One thing im sure all Guardians can agree on is we are the Tanks EQ1 should have had. Man I have more fun playing my EQ2 Guard than I ever did playing my warrior on EQ1. So much to choose from and there are so many ways I can make my Tank play the way I want and still be very effective. Either way try out all methods of fighting and choose the one that best defines your play style. I like in your face smash mouth play style. I love seing Dragonsbain at the top of the DPS list at the end of a fight and the scouts monks and wizzy's are going ummm [Removed for Content] is going on. Lol the only time I lose agro is when I get up to go get a soda or a snack during a fight lol. In truth soon as I finish EBBC I will be using it the majority of the time but dont tell nobody its secret

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Do you have any data that dw weapons proc twice as much than 2h? I thought (from scout forums and their extensive poison proc research) from my own experience that DW weapon has roughly half of the proc rate of the 2h (or 1h). Even at the time when I had 2 procing dw's (pgt and ssoy) my crook would proc the same or sometimes even more. Also, I never have taunt issues with paladins if they know how to play eg. they try to avoid their high agro skills (which they actually have planty) but the monk I group almost daily has some insane delay 2h and there my dw does not help one bit. If I dont remember cycle taunts I will lose agro.Period.

And you do not do any more damage with EBBC than with crook. Actually when fighting groups, you do less damage.

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Nothing conclusive..And its hard to test w/o having really good weapons of each type but thus far it seems to be something like DW is 75% raw dps of 2h while 1h is 50%. Something along those lines assuming equal quality weapons. Also the delay of weapons seem to be related to specials...i think when spamming specials we miss out on alot of swings with fast weapons.As for procs I cant really provide anything since the only procing weapon I have is my PGT. But i read a post on the Monk forums (I know its hard to find useful info their having to go thru all the in-class bickering =P) that indicated the game has some sorta modifiers applied to weapon types so that proc rates are equal.

[Banditman]

No, wrong.

Your standard melee swings should be netting you about 33% of your total DPS when you are in "DPS Mode" - ie you are not the main tank.  If your melee swings are getting you more than that, you need to go upgrade your skills to App 4 or Adept.

At L24, my Guard was doing anywhere from 10 - 13 DPS if I simply sat there with auto attack turned on using two white con DW weapons.  By using specials, I increased my DPS into the 30 - 35 range, once hitting as high as 39.1.

The other consideration with DW weapons is that when you are trying for DPS, you actually lose more swings with those weapons because of their speed.  Allow me to elaborate.

When you are using a CA, you have a cast bar up.  Some casts are longer than others.  However, during this time, your melee weapons are doing NOTHING.  They cannot swing at all.  So, those fast little weapons are at zero DPS while you are casting.

Now, with a slower swinging weapon you can sometimes slide your CA's in between swings.  Even though you are casting, your countdown to your next melee swing is still happening.

Here are some quick numbers:

Let's say you are casting a CA that takes 1.6 seconds to cast. 

First, we use 2 DW weapons with a 1.4 second delay.  You cast the CA .1 seconds before your melee swing is due to take place.  You just lost those 2 swings.  Additionally, because of the speed of your DW weapons, you lost ANOTHER swing as well while the CA is going off.  So, you lost 2 swings of 2 weapons in casting the CA.

The other possibility is that you hit immediately before the CA cast begins.  In this case, your swing timer starts right as you start to cast the CA.  It actually finished BEFORE you finish casting the CA.  So, in this case you've effectively turned your 1.4 delay DW weapons into 1.6 delay weapons since they cannot fire until the CA goes off.

Now, take a 1H with a 1.7 second delay.  You cast the CA .1 seconds before your swing is due to take place.  In this situation, you only lost 1 swing.

In the case where you swing the 1H right before the CA casts, you lose no swings.  You swing and your timer starts.  You start casting and finish casting before your next swing is due.

 

Obviously, you can simply run a log parser and let it measure your swing rate for you and you'll see that DW weapons are not as huge an advantage as they might seem.  Yea, they give you a little more DPS in some situations, but often you'll find that when you are in "DPS Mode" a hard hitting 2H weapon with a higher delay will yield more DPS because that weapon is less likely to lose swings while you do CA's.

 

[Grond]

If you pick just one style you are not a good guardian.  You need to keep all your skills maxed if possible and always be able to cater to what a group needs.  A good example is when I grouped in EL areas in my mid/late 30's.  I'd get a group, and mobs would start green/blue.  I'd dual wield.  As we got to white if the healer was good I'd still dual.  By the time we got to yellows I usually changed to a shield.

[Baindrag]

Edit: Duped post work computers are junk.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-16-2005 10:47 AM

[SkySava]

Blues or below... dual wield

Whites or above... Sword and Board

Exceptions: When soloing.

 

Not opinion; just fact. If you want dps over defense go play a Berserker.

-nuff said-

[Baindrag]

 

This post is in reference to the post Strast made

 

Go to e2players now click the tab that says characters.

Now click the search button and type in Dragonsbain (first block) then black burrow (second block) and hit the search button. I actually did mistype my level I am 44 almost 45.

 

Yes in my original post I listed only the AC of a shield as one of the pro’s I totally neglected to include mitigation as a PRO. Though I do not recall saying using a shield was wrong?? I just listed the pros and cons.

 

Four types of agro maintance you say. Though you are correct about guardian group buffs generating hate. What is the reuse timer of those buffs? What is the cast time of those buffs? What is the power usage of those buffs? How much hate are you generation during the casting of these buffs during a fight? How are you gaining more agro than the cleric that is having to heal themselves while you cast these buffs? Yes you are right they generate agro but at what cost?

 

Damage hate is irrelevant to a guardian you say. I should have clarified my meaning of melee damage generating hate. When I say melee damage I am including melee skills.

So try this since you believe it to be irrelevant. Grab a few friends find a group mob blue con or higher. Have somebody else pull the mob wait a few seconds. Now you use your taunts and buffs to gain agro, time how long it takes you to gain agro. Now repeat this accept this time try my method. Wait a few seconds use Retaliate first. Then use slam,crush,strike,cleave,invade and now use a taunt or two. My way is faster without a doubt. Thus melee damage generates a lot more than a small amount of hate.

 

 Top of the DPS table????? What game are you playing Strast? Sure mage classes have huge nuke spells. Guess what most are on the same reuse timer and those that are not have huge recast time just ask them. Now what skills do guardians have that share reuse timer. Not very many and those that do its because its an upgrade to the old. What is the reuse timer on our skills? So lets take your mage 500 nuke to the fight. At max they have 3 nukes that big each having a longer reuse timer than a guardians skills. Using all 3 the mage just did 1500 damage. Now track the guardians damage out put. Retaliate 500+ (high reuse time). Cleave 100+ DD 116 dot 2 tics at level 44. Slam 200-300 damage depending on level of spell. Crush 200-300. Ferocious Strike 200-250. Those 3 have same reuse timer jfyi. Invade 150-200 damage. Charge 150ish faster reuse than cleave. I can cast all of those faster than the mage can cast his/her 3 nukes and some of my reuse timers will be back up gain to start the chain again before the mages. So tally up the total. 1500 mage damage. Using the low end of guardian skill damage you come up with roughly 1732 damage. Yes it will be different numbers depending on how hard your skill’s actually hit.

 

Also there has been the agro wipe bug. Which made HTL useless. I think the latest series of patches fixed this problem since I have not had any issues with it anymore. Most of my playing time has been during the taunt bug period and with the bug I had to develop new ways of tanking and holding agro. Though some of your post has merit in it smash mouthing me when in all truthfulness I stated it is personal choice was uncalled for.

Please try other things before spouting off like that. Just because that’s all you could do in EQ1 was rely on a specific way of tanking does not mean you have to do it in EQ2 that’s the beauty of EQ2 there are multiple ways to tank in this one.

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-16-2005 10:51 AM

[SkySava]

Sometimes I swear people just assume everyone shells out the stupid cash to SOE for EQ2players extras. Remember dude... not everyone has the item search.

-nuff said-

[Wasuna]

DW, 2H and 1H do not go up as skills. Just slashing, crushing and piercing. Just swap some weapons out when your in different modes. I do not dual weild since my personal opinion is it looks stupid to dual weild when your wearing full plate. I use a 2 handed sword when I want to look cool and I use crook when I want to do better DPS. Sorry, no uber weapons here. I have an ebon hammer and a Swine Axe that I use as my main weapons to keep crush and slash up. I had a couple of good daggers but those fit into my stupid look catagory.

Disclaimer: The stupid look comments are my personal opinion and relate to how I want my charachter to look. It in no way reflectes DPS or stats.

[Baindrag]

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SkySavage wrote:

Sometimes I swear people just assume everyone shells out the stupid cash to SOE for EQ2players extras. Remember dude... not everyone has the item search.

-nuff said-

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Lol the character search comes standard via the web page. What item search are you talking bout ? I was talking about character search to see what level a person is as a direct reply to "how can we even know if he is lvl 45"

[Baindrag]

Good post Banditman I hadnt thought of it that way. Makes total since though thanks for the info

[Baindrag]

Moorgard wrote :

 

To put it simply:

Item AC (excluding shields) = mitigation

Skills and shields = avoidance

While shields have an AC number, that number reflects the relative value of the avoidance they give. Shields don't mitigate anything; they give you an extra chance to avoid an attack.

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Moorgard
EverQuest II Community Guy

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=2835#M2835

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-16-2005 02:13 PM

[Stra]

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Baindragon wrote:

Moorgard wrote :

To put it simply:

Item AC (excluding shields) = mitigation

Skills and shields = avoidance

While shields have an AC number, that number reflects the relative value of the avoidance they give. Shields don't mitigate anything; they give you an extra chance to avoid an attack.

===========================
Moorgard
EverQuest II Community Guy

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=2835#M2835

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-16-2005 02:13 PM

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Sheilds give you a chance to BLOCK. Not avoid, not dodge. Second of all, how do we know that is your character? I could easily say I was some level 50 on some server and you wouldnt know. THere is nothign tieing you to your account. As for your other replies to my posts, you are wrong. IF someone else pulled (and they wouldnt in my groups) I would have aggro off them faster than they could do any damage at all. As for your little test, its silly because in that test someone has already done 2 stuipid things that will get a group killed in a dungeon if done routinely.1) They pulled when they arent MT2) They continued attacking a mob that had aggro on them. If you want to whip up whimsical, farsical scenerios, we can invent a billion. They dont prove anything. So some assorted notes: * Battle tactics will generate a huge load of hate. Quite enough to turn a mob around that went after a healer. Cast time is 30 sec I believe; you can run it 2 times per fight. If you run all your group buffs after you pull, you will be on top of the hate table forever. * Allay and Sentinel and the like generate decent aggro but also they keep the cleric alive long enough to get aggro back. * Secondary healer should be healing main healer if he gets attacked. Main healer should do as little as possible aggro wised if a mob is on him. If a mob is on a scout or mage, they should switch to a different mob to attack and NOT attack the mob on them. * I dont kill blues or greens in group unless I have no choice and then only double ups and so on. My groups pull whites, yellows and oranges and do it fast. * YOur healer may be able to keep you alive if you are doing the things you mention. That means the healer is good and does not mean you are good. Your tricks WILL slow down the group however. Instead of your healer having half mana on a white double up fight, he will have none. It seems to me all of your theories are built on the supposition that the people you are playing with dont know what the heck they are doing. I personally dont play with those people. I prefer those that will keep my Kills per death ratio HIGH.

[Baindrag]

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Strast wrote:

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Baindragon wrote:

Moorgard wrote :

To put it simply:

Item AC (excluding shields) = mitigation

Skills and shields = avoidance

While shields have an AC number, that number reflects the relative value of the avoidance they give. Shields don't mitigate anything; they give you an extra chance to avoid an attack.

===========================
Moorgard
EverQuest II Community Guy

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=2835#M2835

Message Edited by Baindragon on 03-16-2005 02:13 PM

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"Sheilds give you a chance to BLOCK. Not avoid, not dodge." Quote from Smartbum 

Thanks for this lovely GEM. Do you actually know anything you are talking about. Myself I backed up what I said with hard fact. Since probably you are the only one that does not Know who Moorgard is look just below the name on the Sig. Yeah thats right you said it all when you posted you know more than apparently a GM. To verify you might actually have to type the link to the entire post manually. I can tell you indepth how to do that if you also need some help in that area. Do yourself a favor dont post on my threads again because I will get information just like this to show you ya dont know jack. Alas I can be wrong and I will gladly post I am wrong when givin proof of being wrong. I am not afraid to be wrong or proven wrong. Back it up or shut it up.