What "color" is best to wear?

[Shield6]

I have a lvl 20 Guardian. I always have the best armor and weapons I can get for my guy, 90% of the time they are orange but sometimes they drop to yellow. Is it wise to do this for the best AC etc...?Or am I going about this completely wrong?On a side note. Other guardians out there, I have come across, even higher than me have less everything than me, excluding power. Missing armor peices or stuff a lvl 7 can wear, armor yourself up people.-Bill

[TunaBoo]

As long as armor is white or better, every level the AC will go up. Once it turns below white the ac stops going up. So white armor is the same as orange armor for the current level. Main thing to worry about it stats and ac. At level 43 I can wear some orange gear in slots where I have green.. but the green has more AC and stats, so I wear it instead. The con is just a hint on when the item stops giving more ac per level.

[ArgosyAxeGrind]

So true -- I see so many people focusing on wearing "orange gear" that they don't even bother to compare if the item is better. Generally wear the item with the best stats that you can possibly equip (regardless of color), just be aware that orange/yellow gear will get better as you level.

[WabbitHunt]

haha...man i was going to say "pink" then realized you were asking about CON color. 

 

thppt.

 

pink!

[RafaelSmith]

"The factors that affect your mitigation are armor type (light, medium, heavy, etc.), the tier (quality) of the item, the level of the gear, and the level of the opponent attacking you. Also, spell effects can raise or lower your overall chance to mitigate physical attacks. Defense, parry, deflection, agility, and shields all affect your chance to avoid physical attacks. They don't impact mitigation. While each type of armor has a base mitigation value, that value is modified by item level and quality. As a piece of armor turns blue to green to grey to you, it loses more and more of its mitigation value until it becomes essentially worthless. In terms of quality, a rare armor piece of a given type will mitigate more than a common piece of the same type. Item tier can have a major effect; an artifact-quality piece of medium armor, for instance, will likely have higher mitigation than many types of heavy armor. The level of the opponent is also a factor. With the same set of armor, you will mitigate a greater percentage of damage from an opponent that is at or below your level as opposed to one that is higher level than you are. There are obviously a lot of elements that go into how well you defend yourself against attacks. The upcoming change to the displayed AC value is designed to sum them up so you can get a better idea of how the various factors affect the damage you end up taking over time.===========================MoorgardEverQuest II Community Guy "

[Gilgal]

I am suprised by the lack of reaction from the Guardian community to that post RafaelSmith. Considering the fact that we have had some heated discussions in this forum concerning armor con and what if any affect it has.

[Dalthenn]

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TunaBoo wrote:As long as armor is white or better, every level the AC will go up. Once it turns below white the ac stops going up. So white armor is the same as orange armor for the current level. Main thing to worry about it stats and ac. At level 43 I can wear some orange gear in slots where I have green.. but the green has more AC and stats, so I wear it instead. The con is just a hint on when the item stops giving more ac per level.

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Very true, at times this may be confusing for some guardians that just pay attention to the CON colors.I still have a couple of items that CON orange to me and I will not upgrade until they reach the same AC level as my green gear that I'm currently wearing. Obviously, with time, I will wear this upgraded gear, but at this time they're not worth my loss of AC if I was to wear them.Good point there

[Sunth]

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TunaBoo wrote:
As long as armor is white or better, every level the AC will go up. Once it turns below white the ac stops going up. So white armor is the same as orange armor for the current level. Main thing to worry about it stats and ac. At level 43 I can wear some orange gear in slots where I have green.. but the green has more AC and stats, so I wear it instead. The con is just a hint on when the item stops giving more ac per level.

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This is exaclty what I do. Much of my gear is pretty good for its level and thats really how you decide if something is UBER. If it only requires 100 skill to wear and it provides twice the AC of any other piece of armor you've seen that you can wear at 100 skill then its UBER armor. For that Level... eventually even crappy armor at higher levels will be better than that UBER armor but it might take awhile before that is true.

 

Typically armor quests, rare crafted armor/weapons, heritage quests, and other long hard to complete quests are going to provide equipment that is the best possible at a specific level.

Message Edited by Sunthas on 01-27-2005 02:20 PM

[Sunth]

While each type of armor has a base mitigation value, that value is modified by item level and quality. As a piece of armor turns blue to green to grey to you, it loses more and more of its mitigation value until it becomes essentially worthless. In terms of quality, a rare armor piece of a given type will mitigate more than a common piece of the same type. Item tier can have a major effect; an artifact-quality piece of medium armor, for instance, will likely have higher mitigation than many types of heavy armor.

 

So this is what Moorgard said today on the bruiser thread... It doesn't match what Tuna and I thought.

[Sunth]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=48577#M48577

 

Patherpanchali wrote:
Using the green armor class value to compare the mitigation values of two pieces of armor is reliable for things above you in level, even reds.

 

Patherpanchali wrote:

When comparing two pieces of armor that are equipped in the same slot, you need only look at the green armor class value to see the degree of mitigation protection it will give you vs. NPC's that are close to you in level, or above you in level.

 

Message Edited by Sunthas on 01-27-2005 02:59 PM

[TunaBoo]

IMHO moorguard doesn't know (or he doesn't communicate well) how armor works either. We will see if the new defence thing shows it.I have tested to some degree and con does NOTHING. Printed ac is how well ir protects. 100 ac grey > 75 ac orange.However I have been wrong before, we will see.

Message Edited by TunaBoo on 01-27-2005 03:53 PM

[Pandergosk Pie'Voluti]

Its quite true.

 

If I were to remove some of my blue and green armor to make way for orange, there are several cases in which I would actually be downgrading myself.

 

Even with the con system in effect, coming from EQ one I compare every item stat by stat and look at what is going to best suit my guardian in how I want to play him, not what meets the "amber alert" system of item selection.

[Lun]

When I hit level 10 warrior I stoped adventuring, and focused on my outfitter-training, to get myself a shiny set of iron chain armor.pristine forged iron chainmail item = level 20forged iron chainmail item = level 18shaped forged iron chainmail item = level 16crude .. chainmail item = (I assume) level 14The higher the final level, the higher the max protection at that level. So far so good. But! At level 10, a piece of level 18 armor gave more protection, than that item as its level 20 variant. So basically I should have crafted a crude set of armor, worn it until I ding 15, then wear a shaped set for 2 levels...Though, I guess going crude, and then next step pristine would have worked as well. Though now at level 11 (...) the effective AC values seem to improve.Maybe it is only the 11-level jump. I ought to be wearing pristine forged tin chainmal at level 10...Something similar might happen to a level 20 guardian putting on a set of pristine player-crafted level 30 plate armor.Summary: When using pristine player-crafted armor (due the huge level range they cover) there can be disadvantageous effects, if you get armor way too many levels to big for you.

Message Edited by Luned on 01-28-2005 11:16 AM

[Sunth]

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Sunthas wrote:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=48577#M48577

 

Patherpanchali wrote:
Using the green armor class value to compare the mitigation values of two pieces of armor is reliable for things above you in level, even reds.

 

Patherpanchali wrote:

When comparing two pieces of armor that are equipped in the same slot, you need only look at the green armor class value to see the degree of mitigation protection it will give you vs. NPC's that are close to you in level, or above you in level.

 

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Looks like Moorgard went back and agreed with Patherpancahali. So the real quick answer is use the green armor class value to compare pieces of armor. Con Color of the Armor doesn't matter.

[ArgosyAxeGrind]

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TunaBoo wrote:
IMHO moorguard doesn't know (or he doesn't communicate well) how armor works either. We will see if the new defence thing shows it.

I have tested to some degree and con does NOTHING. Printed ac is how well ir protects. 100 ac grey > 75 ac orange.

However I have been wrong before, we will see.

Message Edited by TunaBoo on 01-27-2005 03:53 PM

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This has been my indirect observation as well. In fact, I firmly believe that if the color "con" of the armor had a direct impact, we would notice that after "swapping out gear" from a green/orange item, our overall damage taken would increased/decreased.

[Crus]

I do hope you are rightt TunaBoo. It's the most logical way it could work.

 

I and a few others tried to get this information from the devs in beta. We got a few answers but they where all a bit confusing and contradictory. They did say that the green AC value is the only important value, it is what counts... in most situations. From what I remember those odd situations where it doesn't count is when fighting mobs that are lower level than you are, green/gray. In those situations it doesn't really matter though

 

Message Edited by Crusho on 01-31-2005 12:48 PM

edit for spelling...

Message Edited by Crusho on 01-31-2005 12:48 PM

[lowell_]

Moorgards post tells me that the focus should be on finding higher quality armor that does indeed con orange...hanging onto a green piece of armor solely because of a few ac points(or even 20 or 30 for that matter) is a fatal mistake....You are LOSING mitigation and avoidance by using armor that no longer "fits" you....by the same token, replacing the armor before it has gone to blue is pointless unless you are talking major upgrade..as you peak at compatablility at white.  Sometimes it is hard for us meatshields to remember that ac is not the be all end all of our damage absorption/avoidance prowess.

[TunaBoo]

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lowell_23 wrote:

Moorgards post tells me that the focus should be on finding higher quality armor that does indeed con orange...hanging onto a green piece of armor solely because of a few ac points(or even 20 or 30 for that matter) is a fatal mistake....You are LOSING mitigation and avoidance by using armor that no longer "fits" you....by the same token, replacing the armor before it has gone to blue is pointless unless you are talking major upgrade..as you peak at compatablility at white. Sometimes it is hard for us meatshields to remember that ac is not the be all end all of our damage absorption/avoidance prowess.

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You are wrong. There is no hidden mitigation value. Grey armor has 100 ac, orange armor had 99 ac.. the grey armor will protect better.This rumer has been going on FAR too long. It has been confirmed that this is the case by moorguard. Drop it.

[gwindor]

Out of curiosity, 2 posters have said that Moorguard went back on the original statement

 

"While each type of armor has a base mitigation value, that value is modified by item level and quality. As a piece of armor turns blue to green to grey to you, it loses more and more of its mitigation value until it becomes essentially worthless. In terms of quality, a rare armor piece of a given type will mitigate more than a common piece of the same type. Item tier can have a major effect; an artifact-quality piece of medium armor, for instance, will likely have higher mitigation than many types of heavy armor."

 

Nobody posted a link though. Where did he do that?

[Rah]

Lets put this into prospective in an example that can be folowed/quantified.

   Hearth Forged XX cons Green and has XX AC
   Pristine Forged Feyiron XX Cons orange and has yy AC

 

Making the assumption that yy is slightly lower than xx.

The hearth has slightly more resist/stats/ac but cons green. So players choose to
continue to use the Hearth armor until the benefits they gain diminish and the Pristine
offers better AC if it will at some point.

 

Tunabash wrote-

"At level 43 I can wear some orange gear in slots where I have green.. but the green has more AC and stats,
so I wear it instead. The con is just a hint on when the item stops giving more ac per level."
as a sidenote I could not have thought of a better name for an Ogre Guardian!

 

The hypothisis buy players is that XX AC is XX AC regardless of the con.

 

RafaelSmith wrote-

"The factors that affect your mitigation are armor type (light, medium, heavy, etc.), the tier (quality) of the
item,the level of the gear, and the level of the opponent attacking you. Also, spell effects can raise or lower your
overall chance to mitigate physical attacks."

 

The parts of the statement below is what intrest me:
 1. The tier (quality) of the item
 2. The level of the gear

 

Tier or quality would, to me, imply a differene between crude, shaped, forged and pristine in player crafted items.
This would then lead to the question of what is Hearth Forged equivalent to or other armor types Ebon, Chessguard,etc...?

 

The level of gear would imply to me what the con of the gear is. This is the statement in contention and from players
that post here is frowned upon as a rumor that should be discarded. Level may also be tied to the skill required to use and
Skill max, I would think that is what determines the con of the item anyways.

 

I think it is important here to focus on the issue of damage mitigation. Some players may be wearing armor that is an
undercon but offers them more Strenght or Agility or even resist in trade for that XX amount of AC they loose if wearing
armor that isa better con. This line of testing should be avoided since it seems to just cloud the issue.

 

So I propose that we agree upon a mob that is equal level to the tank.The mob is a fighter class. The tank is unbuffed,
not using a shield and uses a weapon that will allow him to parse a fight for a significant period of time. A healer should
be around to make prolong the fight as long as possible before it is time to kill the mob outright. (mending suxorz!) once
we agree on the variables then a agreed upon duration should be parsed, say 10 min of fighting.No HO and no Icon use just a
tank recieveing damage for the purpose of parsing what the damage mitigation will be.

We need an agreed upon parser.
We need a voulenteer that can two box or have a another player heal while they take damage.
We need varying types of armor listed before the parse results are posted

 

In short we need to expiriement so we can draw conclusions. At this point it would seem that we all need ot agree on what
expieriments to run.

Be an interesting test to run to answer some of the questions posted here.Seeing is believeing until then its all opinion
or conclusions drawn from the post of others.

I would be interested in hearing the details of your testing you mention here Tuna
Tuna-
"Ihave tested to some degree and con does NOTHING. Printed ac is how well ir protects. 100 ac grey > 75 ac orange."

 

Luned Im not sure if this is a result of the tradeskilling bugs that occured with armorers it would definatley have an impact
on the variables we would use in testing quality or armor I suspect????
Luned-
"Summary: When using pristine player-crafted armor (due the huge level range they cover) there can be disadvantageous effects, if you get armor way too many levels to big for you."

Searching for the mechanics of damage mitigation
Rahge
31 Guardian, Everfrost

 

 

 

[Bramwe]

Doesn't it make sense that the cons are just to prevent twinking.  Has this never been brought up?  Otherwise if con color is the significance then what is really the point of having an AC value.  If orange will mitigate better than colors below it then why worry about the AC value at all, it would be pointless unless the two pieces of armor being compared are the exact same lvl.

 

Message Edited by Bramwell on 02-01-2005 11:08 AM

[Rah]

I suspect that Tuna and Bramwell are both correct. It would however be intesting to run the test and get some concrete answers on a variety of things from it.

 

Rahge

[Super Du]

Pink, it'll make your pretty lips shine

[Oakwood]

To sum up a very long discussion we had in beta with Patherpancheli (the dev that works on mechanics)

• Only look at the current AC to determine how well a piece of armor will protect you
• Look at the con color, tier, type, etc only as a guide when shopping for where to find the better AC items

Odds are, a higher con item will have better AC, but if you have a high con low tier item compared to a low con high tier item, the low con may actually have more AC at your level.  If you have a blue chestplate with 209 ac and an orange chestplate with 200 ac, the 209 is better.  But keep an eye on the other one as you level, it will increase in ac.  Once it has more AC for you at your new current level than the piece you have, equip it.

On a side note, Moorgard is a PR guy, not a developer.  He does not see the code behind the game.  Patherpancheli is a developer who not only sees the code, he designs and writes the code. If ever a dev and a PR guy disagree on mechanics, go with the dev.