How often as a guardian are you NOT the main tank

[Uumuuanu]

Ok, I see lots of posts about using 2h weapons when you aren't MT or how to help buff so and so as the MT, but so far I have only NOT been the MT twice in 30 levels.  Once was when we were raiding, I was 21, MT was 27.  The only other time was in Nektropos where a we had a 36 cleric and a 35 brigand, I was 29.  I tanked nearly ever mob but 1 and I still ended up pulling aggro off the cleric who was tanking a lvl 36^^ mob without taunting.   The brigand tried to tank one for fun but his AC was almost a 1000 lower then mine.

 

So how often are you NOT the main tank as a guardian when other tanking classes are in your group and around your level?  Are there times I shouldnt be the MT (I know if they have more hp and AC then I do, but other then that).

 

 

[WabbitHunt]

 > (I know if they have more hp and AC then I do, but other then that).

 

That's not an entirely fair comment for the guardian.  If you are only comparing ac/hp to another potential tank with their ac and/or hp being greater than yours your choice on who tanks should not be because of a minute difference in ac and/or hp.  You should take into consideration skills/abilities that your guardian either a) has or does't have, b) what sort of tank you are comparing to, c) prolly a bunch more but those 2 really jump out, although level would play a major role as well, but a 1 or 2 level difference I would think should not.

[RafaelSmith]

Since starting EQ2 the only time I havent been MT is when my Fury healer has to overheal me =P

[TunaBoo]

Only in weird spots, like if doing a mob for a chest I grey out I leave group and sit on a rock for a minute ;p

[Sunth]

Only prepatch with Bezerkers in the group where I can't hold aggro anyway. Other than that I'm almost always MT. A few times I've been with SKs 5 levels above me and then ofcourse they tank instead.

[saeben]

ummm lets see...These are the times when i am not MT. (ie using a twohander)1. there is another tank in the group that is a lvl or 2 higher...or more2. when the rest of your group is 4+ lvls higher than you fighting mobs that are normally red to you3. Duo with a heavy armored cleric. (use my protection skills and dont worry about taunting to maximize dps)4. Solo (either the mob is gonna kill you or not, using a shield dont really help)5. when i know that i can out dps the other tank, and the group needs dps.6. being lazy and let lower tanks get some tankage in. but normally i am the main tank, unless the other tank is the same lvl and has more hp and ac.

[Teh_n0]

Never.  Only way I would NOT be the main tank in a group is if:

 

1)  Another tank class (crusader type or a zerk) is in the group AND has either better stats (AC/HP) or is a higher level.

 

2)  Im playing an alt. :smileytongue:

[Atanvar]

I was in a group yesterday (not on my guardian) with a 23 mystic, a 22 guardian, and a 27 serker. I was on my 22 templar... the serker tanked everything.It seemed to work, but I did have to do a good bit of healing that I wonder if I could have avoided had the guardian been tanking....

[ArgosyAxeGrind]

I would say I am MT 80% of the time. The times I am usually not MT are:

 

10% of the time 1) There is a tank-type that is at least 2 levels higher than me (such as a Paladin or Zerker)  - level is still king in this game!!

 5% of the time  2) There is another guardian in the group that is at least 1 level higher than me (rarely happens, but I remember this occuring when working on  my                                 level 20 armor quests).

 4% of the time  3) There is another tank-type that simply insists/wants to tank.

 1% of the time  4) There is a named/boss mob that is better tanked by a high damage avoidance bruiser (there are some out there).

 

Now let me explain #3, there are times that other people prefer/requrest to be the MT -- I am OK with this so long as they are not a detriment to the overally safety of the group. That also gives me time to play around with all my damage attacks/gear. On one occasion, a particular person wanted to be the MT, but the group wanted me to MT. If the group wants me to MT, then phooey on that other player

[Nemi]

Just to wade in here as a monk:

 

I prefer to let plate classes tank for me if we're equal in level / skill and equipment and use my superior DPS mode, but I see too often people forget there is 2 other Fighter trees than Warrior (Crusader / Brawler).

 

Paladins / Shadowknights / Monks and Bruisers all can tank and can tank very well. Just comparing AC / HPs is a false measure. I usually have around 100-200 hps less than a Guardian and maybe 500ac, however I can tank just as well if need be.

 

When deciding who should tank, priority should be given to:

 

1) Level (level is king)

2) Equipment

3) Healer type (Shamans best suited to monk, clerics to plates)

 

This is assuming both players are competent, a bad tank is a bad tank, no matter the class.

 

THIS IS NOT A FLAME!! REPEAT -- THIS IS NOT A FLAME!!

 

But people have to get away from the EQ mindset...group roles are created at the Archetype, each subclass fulfils the role required. Therefore it doesnt matter whether you're a Guardian, Berserker, Paladin, Shadowknight, Monk or Bruisier..we're all fighters and can all fulfil the role as Main Tank.

[Bobbubski]

Preach on, brother

[Dahntahl]

If I get invited in a group where there is a better tank regardless of class I will typically just leave the group as the contribution I can make at that point is going to be limited. The group would be far better off picking up another class which can do more DPS instead of the small bit of extra defense that I can contribute. The only reason guardians can get away with doing major DPS is by spamming specials, which typically is gonna draw aggro (at least what I've found when off-tanking). In the past I would usually stay and cast defensive spells on main tank but these seem to affect several healing abilities and tend to be more hinderince then help.

[Atanvar]

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Dahntahl wrote:If I get invited in a group where there is a better tank regardless of class I will typically just leave the group as the contribution I can make at that point is going to be limited. The group would be far better off picking up another class which can do more DPS instead of the small bit of extra defense that I can contribute. The only reason guardians can get away with doing major DPS is by spamming specials, which typically is gonna draw aggro (at least what I've found when off-tanking). In the past I would usually stay and cast defensive spells on main tank but these seem to affect several healing abilities and tend to be more hinderince then help.

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No, don't leave. If they want you, stay on and be off tank. You'd be surprised how often another fighter able to taunt an add can help save a caster/priest....Plus you do have a certain DPS that adds. Use DW or a 2H and hack away with your specials. Get those stuns in on the caster mobs, for sure...

[TunaBoo]

I don't off tank though. I play this game as a tank to tank, not put out 55 dps and waste a slot. If I want to DD I will make a swash.So if a group has another plate tank who wants to tank, ill go harvest or find a diff group.

Message Edited by TunaBoo on 01-18-2005 02:50 PM

[Aren]

If I'm in a group with another tank, and they have comparable hp/ac to me, I prefer to be the second tank, using my parry/damage interception skills to protect the group in a way I can't do efficiently when I'm the main tank.

 

Allay and Never Surrender help the other tank perform much better, while intevene protects the healer, and if crap hits the fan, I pop on an upgrade to Sentinel (can't remember name atm). Plus I'm better at maintaining the Guardian Buffs when i'm not pulling, and tanking.

[TunaBoo]

As I said 30 times those buffs are Fed up.. be careful about using them.

[EQ2Shil]

Depends what I am fighting, if I am on a raid I find that a pair of Guardians makes the best tanking setup, one Guardians does the taunting and tanking while the other uses their guarding abilities to reduce the damage they take. This is only really necessary when fighting those nasty triple ups though.

 

In a regular exp group the only time I am not the tank is if there is higher level Guardian present, in which case I will switch to duel wield (SSoY+SBD atm) and use my guarding skills to help the other Guardian out. Having two Guardians in an AE group can actually be pretty good exp as it allows you to double pull and hold agro on two groups while the AE nukes get thrown.

[Noah]

I have never not been the main tank... if a group cant be smart enough to realize that I am built for agro and mitigation, ill move on and avoid that debt thanks.

[Padi]

There is another factor no one has mentioned.

 

Skill of player.  Seriously, a smart MT is far better than one not as experienced.  I play a zerker (have considered making guardian) and we tank close enough to a guardian (if the zerker tries to, many won't).  I've had a few occations with another tank class being in the group able to tank, but due to people who have grouped with me, they refused to have the other guardian/sk/paladin tank.

 

I don't even know if it's about who requires less healing, but more about which tank will keep the experience flowing.  By not getting into trouble, and keeping a fast pass on kills.  Also making sure we do interesting things instead of pulling to one spot for hours.

Message Edited by Padien on 01-19-2005 08:37 AM

[Saradine]

I almost always tank. But i pretty much only group in my guild. The only time I don't tank is if Caleel tanks because he is 5 lvls higher. Other than that I am the one getting beat on, always.

 

I have also upgraded my equiptment to the best I can wear right now so that helps.

[Xanrn]

I am a Monk and I tank, alot.

 

Screw what kind of Healer you got.

 

Fury, Warden, Dirge, Troubador. + any healer.

 

I group tank with Inquistors alot.

 

Aslong as you got Agi buffage.

 

I find that Guardians are pretty rare.

 

Haven't grouped with one in ages.

[bmcd]

I find as a Monk I tank an awfull lot and usually team up with a Fury friend, got to love their agility buff. I have been in a group with Knights and guardians and just been dps, but find I will agro the mob a lot and end up tanking it anyway.  I never ever seem to have this problem with zerks though.  One thing I have noticed is that my taunts are not working very well anymore and was wondering if you all were having the same proble.

[Low]

I usualy tank but some times me and my gildmate try some new things.

 

I let the monk be the main tank

 

He got a lots of AGILLITY so he is not getting hurt too often and then i put on him my protective spell Allay, stan firm, sentinel.

 

That way our monk dosen't get hurt  and me just a little bit.  

 

I can concentrate too protect the others too witout having too concentrat on keeping aggro All the time.

 

I think GARDIAN  can be a lot more than a simple puller/tanker but  a PROTECTOR FIRST.

 

 

[Stoney MacGrud]

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Atanvarno wrote:



No, don't leave. If they want you, stay on and be off tank. You'd be surprised how often another fighter able to taunt an add can help save a caster/priest....

Plus you do have a certain DPS that adds. Use DW or a 2H and hack away with your specials. Get those stuns in on the caster mobs, for sure...

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I don't know about this.  I am definitely less experienced than most of the posters here, but when I have worked with an off tank I would prefer that they not taunt at all under any circumstances short of me going LD.  Usually, the healer(s) of the group enforce this without me having to say a word.   In the interest of avoiding chaos (the pre-cursor to most wipes), it makes more sense to me to have have a single char devoted to agro management, and the healers focused on that single char.  Splitting agro and passing it back obviously can be done and I've certainly made that kind of thing work on occasion (as I'm sure everyone has), but I really don't see this as a recommended practice.

I have been in pickup groups with a lower level fighter that uses a two hander and it's OK, but ideally that slot in the group should be a true DPS (IMHO).

 

[beylanu]

very very rare, to answer the topic question.

 

usually there are monks in my group, and in those cases the monks are perfectly happy playing DPS.  They are better DPS than me.  So I get aggro, and they kill.

 

If we seem to have too many fighters, I switch to shammy and let the monk tank.

 

 

[Pandergosk Pie'Voluti]

I tend to run in guild groups as well, so its rather rare that I'm not the MT.'But even in most pickup groups, the deciding factor is generally level. However, the point made above that a smart tank is better than a useless one is extraordinarily valid. If a tank 5 levels higher than me can't hold aggro and is bouncing mobs all over the place, you can be damned sure I'm going to step up and make my presence felt.

[Padi]

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Pandergosk Pie'Volution wrote:
I tend to run in guild groups as well, so its rather rare that I'm not the MT.'

But even in most pickup groups, the deciding factor is generally level. However, the point made above that a smart tank is better than a useless one is extraordinarily valid. If a tank 5 levels higher than me can't hold aggro and is bouncing mobs all over the place, you can be damned sure I'm going to step up and make my presence felt.

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There's more to it than that, that I was trying to convey.  Sometimes I get into groups with my bard for instance, and the tank is very sluggish on pulling, unsure what to do, and ultimately just slows the pace down too much.  You get into other groups and the tank isn't watching the power of the healer and pulling when before he hs enough power to do his job.  Others have no clue on how to pull and get adds often.  Others just aren't observant and know when to move out of harms way.  The list goes on.

There are many factors into being a good tank besides who takes the least damage when hit or who gets hit less often.

[Dart]

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Padien wrote:

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Pandergosk Pie'Volution wrote:
I tend to run in guild groups as well, so its rather rare that I'm not the MT.'

But even in most pickup groups, the deciding factor is generally level. However, the point made above that a smart tank is better than a useless one is extraordinarily valid. If a tank 5 levels higher than me can't hold aggro and is bouncing mobs all over the place, you can be damned sure I'm going to step up and make my presence felt.

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There's more to it than that, that I was trying to convey.  Sometimes I get into groups with my bard for instance, and the tank is very sluggish on pulling, unsure what to do, and ultimately just slows the pace down too much.  You get into other groups and the tank isn't watching the power of the healer and pulling when before he hs enough power to do his job.  Others have no clue on how to pull and get adds often.  Others just aren't observant and know when to move out of harms way.  The list goes on.

There are many factors into being a good tank besides who takes the least damage when hit or who gets hit less often.

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This is exactly why I swapped from Wizard in beta to tank on release. So many tanks were absolutely clueless, it drove me nutz. After playing as an MT for 4 years in EQ1 I thought I was going to get to break away from the tank role.  Kind of wish I had stuck with the caster.  Don't get me wrong I enjoy tanking when I get to MT, but when Im not I feel like dead weight to the group. New work hours can blow me, I used to be 3 to 5 levels higher than anyone in my guild now Im 3 levels behind and many access Quests to catch up on, so ya don't MT hardly at all anymore.

 

Now I just wave my cow bells around and pretend Im usefull as a secondary tank, atleast my guildys get to listen to me play my bells)