Holding aggro on groups of mobs

[BillyBob]

Hi there, lvl 33 Guardian here.  While I have absolutely no trouble at all holding aggro on a single mob, groups of them can be a lot more tricky.  What do you guys do to hold aggro on group mobs?  I use htl, aoe taunt, and group buffs, plus regular taunts thrown in.  This works ok-ish, but does not keep aggro as well as I would like, especially if I take alot of damage fast and the healer has to throw alot of healing my way fast.   Any advise/suggestions?

 

Thanks again

Dethlok

[TunaBoo]

It sucks pretty bad. I have adept3 group taunt and still the same (I am 32). However I tank for groups of 36s.. so holding 95% of group aggro at 32 is okay I guess... need those new AOE taunts at 36 and whatever.

[Cleric]

For some encounters (seems to be above 35), the mobs will 'decide' to switch aggro to one of the casters, and it's a pain to get aggro back.  It usually happens when one mob in a group dies, and only for certain mobs, so I think it is 'planned' behavior, rather than a bug.

 

What IS a bug is that sometimes an entire encounter will despawn and instantly respawn when one mob in a group dies, and that totally messes up aggro, since they seem to go for the lowest AC player if they have a choice.

[Yennik]

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Cleric2k wrote:

For some encounters (seems to be above 35), the mobs will 'decide' to switch aggro to one of the casters, and it's a pain to get aggro back.  It usually happens when one mob in a group dies, and only for certain mobs, so I think it is 'planned' behavior, rather than a bug.

 

What IS a bug is that sometimes an entire encounter will despawn and instantly respawn when one mob in a group dies, and that totally messes up aggro, since they seem to go for the lowest AC player if they have a choice.

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Yup, I have seen this bug also... some times the agro list is wiped clean after a mob dies.  I hope they get it fixed. When this bug is not happening you can do the following to keep agro on a group of mobs:

1) use shout

2) use hold the line (%chance for AoE taunt proc every hit)

3) cast all your group buffs (buffing seems to work for group agro)

4) use your AoE attack

5) go back to #1

 

 

[Armeng]

I do this1. Pull with bow or suppress2. Cast Battle Cry on inc and if i can cast Battle tatics3. When mobs are close enough hit aoe melee (bury) followed by4. AoE tuant (shouting cry)all I so is repeat Tuant and AoE tuant from that point, if a mob does peel off for a healer, I use my guard skills and continue fighting, sometimes I will try to get attention off the healer, but ususally I just finish the mob I am on.(note Druids seem to be the absolute worst for getting aggro off me, followed by shamans, clerics I really never have to bother with it seems)Edit I havent used HTL in a long time, but I consider it an alternative to use if needed

Message Edited by Armengar on 01-03-2005 01:11 PM

[tim]

I am still pleased with the success of Hold The Line. Really wish there was an Adept3 of that art. Also nice that you can cast it on the run. I pull with bow, cast Hold The Line as I get near the group, and you can time it well so it roots you in the right spot.

[TunaBoo]

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Armengar wrote:I do this1. Pull with bow or suppress2. Cast Battle Cry on inc and if i can cast Battle tatics3. When mobs are close enough hit aoe melee (bury) followed by4. AoE tuant (shouting cry)all I so is repeat Tuant and AoE tuant from that point, if a mob does peel off for a healer, I use my guard skills and continue fighting, sometimes I will try to get attention off the healer, but ususally I just finish the mob I am on.(note Druids seem to be the absolute worst for getting aggro off me, followed by shamans, clerics I really never have to bother with it seems)Edit I havent used HTL in a long time, but I consider it an alternative to use if needed

Message Edited by Armengar on 01-03-2005 01:11 PM

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YAh the prob is that doesn't work anymore in your 30s. You still end up losing aggro.

[Wasuna]

Yep, on big pulls I always lose agro somewhere towards the end. Last night I was duoing groups of greens with my wife the assassin for the kill 300 orcs quest in Zek and over and over I would lose agro to her on the 3rd orc while the second one wasn't even dead. This was with a single group taunt and a single group aoe. It was weird to watch. She hadn't even touched thelast one but after a while it recognized her damage potentinal compared to mine and turned on her.

[Mamasee]

group buffs work ok for gaining aggro, also compleating the HO swindlers gift works well

[YellowSpi]

So HTL isn't effective at 30+? Or people just don't use it?I know in the 20s, HTL is amazing on group encounters, I use it every group pull and never loose agro during the fight.

[StanleyBostit]

Has anyone ever had a problem being in a small group, about three people, with holding aggro when you're being healed by a fury? It seems that my one friend will just peel the mobs right off me and i have a hell of a time getting them back. But its only when i'm with a fury, wardens and mystics etc i barely ever to almost never lose the aggro. (And this is with group taunts/combat buffing/aoe attacks)

[HajimeSai]

The problem with losing agro to encounters of 3 or more I think stems from the theory that the damage done, is done to the encounter. They recognize the damage dealt to them and their allies. When dealing with encounters that have 3 or more mobs, by the time you get to the third or higher mob, the group has deamed the DPS types a bigger threat than you, and as a result, they want to eat them. Same can be said for the healers. After watching two of his friends die, while hitting the same person over and over again, while some guy is standing over there healing you... they finally say to themselves "Hey stupid! Kill the healer!"

 

I think this is the "Advanced Group Tactics" that SOE was talking about, and all it really boils down to is the fighting 4 grouped mobs would be the same as fighting 1 mob in EQ1, except in this game, you have 4x the chances to lose agro.

 

One of the ways I have overcome this dilema is by having my group throttle back on group encounters that aren't 1 ^^ mob, or 2 ^ mobs. The way I figure it is if you notice that ^^ mobs take longer to kill, but agro is no problem. 2x ^ mobs are intermediate, and again agro is no problem. On 3-4x no arrow mobs however, you string as many alphas and HO's as you would a ^^ or 2x ^ mobs, but they die wicked fast. I just have them take it back a notch and don't try to blow its fackin head off. This works well for me because I group with the same people almost exclusively, and we have a mojo together. They understand the concept and we have proven it to be quite effective. We are not worried about racing to 50 or any special zones, but we are progressing nicely.

 

 

So my theory is simply to calm the group down some... tell them to wipe the blood from their chin and chill on the little guys. They will all die quickly anyway.

 

Just my thoughts...

[Noah]

There are a million great posts how to hold agro... do some digging.  Everyone here is suggesting everything that has been said a zillion times before.

 

One tip that has not been mentioned again is Cycle taunting.  Dont be the Main assist and just rely on your AE taunt / 30sec buff to hold agro.  Assign someone else the Main assist (scout or something) and you Tab Cycle thru mobs using those little hate increasers like Taunting blow/challenge... even DoT skills work good.  Come back around to the mob the Main assist is on and land the DD taunt and go to work killing it.... Rinse and Repeat. 

 

Suggestion to everyone really - Do a search for what you are looking for.  Posting and reposting about the same information that is already here defeats the purpose of having these boards completely.   There are great threads on Armor... Weapons... 1hd vs DW vs 2hd... Agro....  etc etc. 

 

Lates

[Belce]

Try entrench to pull with?

[Azry]

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Belce wrote:

Try entrench to pull with?

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Entrench pulling is godlike, I consider it one of our saving graces. I hope this is never gimped. Entrench produces big aggro and adept1 is a fairly easy find.

[Prufro]

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HajimeSaito wrote:

The problem with losing agro to encounters of 3 or more I think stems from the theory that the damage done, is done to the encounter. They recognize the damage dealt to them and their allies. When dealing with encounters that have 3 or more mobs, by the time you get to the third or higher mob, the group has deamed the DPS types a bigger threat than you, and as a result, they want to eat them. Same can be said for the healers. After watching two of his friends die, while hitting the same person over and over again, while some guy is standing over there healing you... they finally say to themselves "Hey stupid! Kill the healer!"

I think this is the "Advanced Group Tactics" that SOE was talking about, and all it really boils down to is the fighting 4 grouped mobs would be the same as fighting 1 mob in EQ1, except in this game, you have 4x the chances to lose agro.

One of the ways I have overcome this dilema is by having my group throttle back on group encounters that aren't 1 ^^ mob, or 2 ^ mobs. The way I figure it is if you notice that ^^ mobs take longer to kill, but agro is no problem. 2x ^ mobs are intermediate, and again agro is no problem. On 3-4x no arrow mobs however, you string as many alphas and HO's as you would a ^^ or 2x ^ mobs, but they die wicked fast. I just have them take it back a notch and don't try to blow its fackin head off. This works well for me because I group with the same people almost exclusively, and we have a mojo together. They understand the concept and we have proven it to be quite effective. We are not worried about racing to 50 or any special zones, but we are progressing nicely.

So my theory is simply to calm the group down some... tell them to wipe the blood from their chin and chill on the little guys. They will all die quickly anyway.

Just my thoughts...

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While this was my first thought as well, there's a thread in the Combat board which talks about an AFK member of a group getting 100% aggro of 3 of the mobs. One of the posts on a paladin thread pertaining to this issue also mentions a healer getting aggro when they were also afk. They hadn't setup a heal the entire fight, or attacked, or buffed, or even moved. They did setup a heal pre fight, that heals based on damage done, but 2-3 shouts should take care of that.Personally, if i'm fighting a group of enemies and one is afk, i'm going to kill all the others first, as he's not a threat to me.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=17810

[Nemi]

I don't think this is planned behaviour.

 

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=17810

 

This was a post I made before being directed here. In summary, an afk group member was gaining aggro after a mob died in a group encounter. Its a bug in the hate list for group encounters, it must be. It doesnt make any sense for AI behaviour to attack someone that has taken no part in the fight.

 

 

[Vimy]

Maybe it is a planned behavior, or at least a random behavior to give the mezers something to do? Really though, if there was nothing random about encounters, including weird agro switches, every fight would be the excact same.

[Pry]

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StanleyBostitch wrote:
Has anyone ever had a problem being in a small group, about three people, with holding aggro when you're being healed by a fury? It seems that my one friend will just peel the mobs right off me and i have a hell of a time getting them back. But its only when i'm with a fury, wardens and mystics etc i barely ever to almost never lose the aggro. (And this is with group taunts/combat buffing/aoe attacks)

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No, I have the same *exact* problem with Furies.

[Dreg]

Odd, im 39, and only taunt once at the start of any battle and rarely lose aggro, all i use is the low power taunt strikes after my ae taunt, wich is taunting blow, vengeful strike, and taunting chalange, thats all i do, i dont even pull when doing outdoor places like rivervale, sometimes even have the healer pull, chain pulling that is, wich is done by somebody getting a encounter before the one youre working on is dead for non stop xp. all this and i still rarely ever lose aggro, 1 taunt, then i cycle my taunt strikes. i think i have seen that fury bug though, getting aggro, but never had trouble regaining the aggro. then again if we never lost aggro, there be no point in other classes having armor would there, be pretty boring. but still i think guards hold aggro really well, only other thing i can tell ya if u do happen to lose it, and cant get it back, just protect them, and assorb there dmg, eather way your doing your job if everyone lives

[Dreg]

oh yea one more thing, your group buffs, some people say to use then to get aggro, i alwase jsut keep my group buffs up as that work wonders for your avoidance and defence mitagation, one pure fact i discoverd to prove this, is when i was soling double up group blue con mobs, yes thats right, double up BLUE GROUP mobs, mele based of course, casters will tear u up, but anyway the only way i could solo double up blue group mobs is having all my groups buffs going, wich is like 3. when all 3 are on, i dont get hit at all on double up greens, not once, and barely get hit on double up blues, but as soon as the buffs dropped, i woudl get ripped to peices. that discovery alone taught me to alwase have my buffs on, if u want a example of what to try, when i was lv 36, i would solo the lv 32 and 33 minos at the entrance of runney eye till i got a grp. so keep your buffs up at all times they are worth it

[Arsen]

Just curious Dregan - how do you fare against group monsters now that the new changes are in?

 

My experience has been - very tough to solo a ^^ now unless there is a tier difference (ie. level 23 fighting a level 19).  And in a group situation, the monsters hit harder causing you to need more heals which causes more aggro for the healers, which in turn means I need to taunt more.  I never have any problems with a single monster and can just use the taunting attacks like you mentioned, but for those second and third (and 4th, 5th) - they have a lot bigger chance of peeling off onto a healer unless I use something to more agressively taunt the entire group (AOE taunt, HTL or group buffing during combat).  I typically do HTL when fighting groups and have no problems but that seems to drain power pretty fast so I am wondering if there is a more effecient way for less downtime.

 

[Belce]

For power regen and downtime, what are you drinking?