Trix of the Guard Trade

Kryogen · 01-07-2005, 01:18 PM

Hello all due to much pressure from my friends to be our tank i decided on guardian...plus they sound fun SMILEY

. All i am wondering is what tips/hints can u give me to let me be the best tank i can be. Just anything i should know that will make tanking easier and make me not look like a newb lol. WEll thank you all in advance SMILEY

FunkerVo · 01-07-2005, 02:26 PM

Hey KryoMy tip for you is to remember that you are not present in the group to do damage. You are there to taunt and to protect your groups members, so preserve power for taunts, and dont think so much about lashing out damage specials all the time.You will also most probably be pulling, and a bow will be a great tool for this. Remember to stack up on arrows SMILEY

Also, look up info about sentinel, allay and stand firm - abilities that you get in the 20s as a guardian and that can be very helpful in protecting your friends.Good luck SMILEY

Rokna · 01-07-2005, 05:02 PM

- taunt, taunt, taunt - you're supposed to take damage for your group, keep aggro, so learn when to fire your taunts - or always fire them as soon as they're ready

- you have to decide whether to buy that "Halberd of uberness" or the "Shield of incredible toughness"? - take the shield (remember? take damage for your group)

- you're the one running in front of all other groupmembers, so know your way - mages travelling first tend to get killed by that mob waiting around the corner :smileywink:

- learn how to lead a group - maybe hardest part, but there will be chaos if the puller isn't the one to tell the group to run, it leads to dead mages when they run first to another spot

AngelR · 01-07-2005, 08:22 PM

I think the most important skill you can have as a Guardian, or any MT for that matter, is leadership. Tanks are generally slotted into the "battlefield general" role... many decisions will be placed on your shoulders, and rightly so. You need to garner the respect of your group/raid members so that they will trust those decisions. They can't be questioning your ability to triage a large battle and select the right mobs, choose the proper positioning, set up the correct HO's (many don't know that we can set up a really nice slow with priests, it's called Crippling Shroud), *call for a retreat*, etc...

Just remember, perceived skill is 10% actual ability and 90% confidence. The days I perform the worst as a tank are the days where, for whatever reason (though it's usually because of work SMILEY

), I'm not feeling to good about myself. A few "brown bottles of courage" usually does the trick, though. SMILEY

(Though by no means am I encouraging you to drink while tanking... it's a skill that takes many many years of practice. LOL)

Gilg · 01-07-2005, 08:32 PM

some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.

In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

Talaga · 01-07-2005, 08:33 PM

Kryogenic wrote:
Hello all due to much pressure from my friends to be our tank i decided on guardian...plus they sound fun . All i am wondering is what tips/hints can u give me to let me be the best tank i can be. Just anything i should know that will make tanking easier and make me not look like a newb lol. WEll thank you all in advance

Can't add much to what's already been said... but I can reinforce it. SMILEY

TAUNT : This is your most important ability as a Guardian/Tank. Make certain that your taunts are the highest level they can be.AWARENESS : Know when to yell RUN! Keep an eye on your team's health and power bars. If your healer is out of power (OOP) before the mob is down to half-health, then tell your team to get the heck out of there, or you're going to have a group-wipe on your hands.HOTKEYS : Many players forget that they have 9 hotkey bars. It's very easy to set up a hotkey bar that is strictly used for when you're in a group, and set up another that you switch to when you're soloing. On your group hotkey bar, place all of your taunts and hate-inducing attacks together. On your solo bar, you can get rid of all of the taunts (since you don't really need them) and put your attacks all together. To change between hotkey bars, use SHIFT-#, where # is the number of the hotkey bar you want to use. (Your primary hotkey bar will change to whichever bar you choose.)Everything else the posters above me said should be taken as gospel. Get a bow and carry arrows for those "tight" pulls. Make certain that you upgrade your armor regularly. Don't let the team follow you from mob to mob... set up a camp where you will pull to. Tell the other players not to cast anything until you have full aggro. Get your healer/buffer to buff you BEFORE you pull, not during.Follow these guidelines, and learn from your mistakes (which you WILL make, just like everyone else) and you'll do just fine. Have fun. SMILEY

Talaga · 01-07-2005, 08:37 PM

GilgUK wrote:
some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.

In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

lol... glad you're not my MT then. SMILEY

If you're the MT (Main Tank) for your group, then you have one job... to keep your teammates alive. Period. If you honestly think that you can keep aggro on a mob that's being backstabbed and nuked by only using one taunt and then hacking away at it... well, like I said... glad you're not my MT.

Cleric · 01-07-2005, 08:43 PM

In addition to taunting, don't forget some of your short-term group buffs, and de-buffs. They work great as taunting tools in addition to the other benefits they provide. Granted, some of the skills may not have noticable effects in an of themselves (it's hard to notice if we actually 'slow' a mob), but get 2 or 3 or 4 effects on a mob, and it does make a difference.

As a guardian, I tend to find that my power goes down quicker than most other classes (most of our abilities are short-cast time, short duration, short recast). So make sure you have good drink, so your power regens fast.

epcle · 01-07-2005, 09:45 PM

GilgUK wrote:

some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.

In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

I agree with GilgUK here for the most part. I mean, I usually taunt more than once, but I generally find it is much more beneficial to do maximum damage and throw in a taunt here or there... That works best for the group, and I usually don't lose aggro. Also, a lot of times I seemed to be grouped with idiots who don't seem to understand the benefits of provisioners food. Hell, I almost always use it, and since my power regens about twice as fast as people that don't use it, I find I can generally afford to use all my power almost every fight, cause I'll be back at full by the time they are. And boy does it confuse people when I use my parser to show the group the dps from the last fight, only to see the Guardian out did everyone including the scouts/mages. :smileyvery-happy:

Rodney · 01-07-2005, 11:05 PM

Man I really have to wonder what game most of you are playing, anytime someone tells you that your just a meatshield and you stand there and take hits is a FOOL get a new group or kick em out. The MT for any group is so much more then just a taunting meatshield is not funny.

The MT picks the spot where you fight, the BIGGEST ADVANTAGE you have over the mobs is the selection of where you fight, this makes or breaks the fight, you get adds you die, you dont get adds you live.

The MT should be watching for adds ALL THE TIME, and move the mob when one shows up. Where do you move the mob, hmm the smart MT will have this worked out before the fight.

The MT should be watching EVERYONES health and call out orders to others to cover the ones in need, zerkers are awesome of this. How many of you know players that hit atk and zone out till the fight is over.

The MT should be watching everyones power and know when its save to pull and not safe.

I dont spam taunts but with a new group will taunt a lot, but over time will find the best taunt rate for this group. Every undeeded taunt is wasted power that could be used for atks. If someone is forcing me to spam taunt then we will have a talk and he will adjust or he will be the new MT.

Learn your special atks and what the mob uses on you, if this mob hits you with 400hp specials then you best be using power darining atks and let others know to do the same. Its a real bummer to have a mob kill you with a 400hp atk at the end of a long fight because no one drained his power, on a long fight they should have zero power by mid fight, saves a lot of power on the healer.

Get good weapons your dps does make a difference.

There are smart tanks and meatshields which do you want to be?

Wasuna · 01-08-2005, 12:13 AM

Back tot he topic...

1. AC and resists are king for you. Your job is to mitigate damage and AC and resists do that. Good gear will have good HP on it so focus on AC and resists.

2. Your there to MT not do damage. You can do OK damage if the group isn't high agro. If they are high agro then that means things are dying fast anyway so don't worry about damage. This also effects your weapon/equipment choice. You can ready the 1,000+ threads on 2H vs 1H shield combo.

3. Learn how to pull. Mobs are either solo or group. If they are group then you get one (1) ^^, or two (2) ^, or one (1) ^ and two no arrows, or three plus (3+) mobs. Find them before you pull and see which one is the biggest threat and target them for the pull.

4. Learn how to place the mobs. If mobs are behind you you can not parry or block. Learn how to place the mobs (which is hard in EQ2). Use the enviroment when you can. In Nektropos castle I'll pull and put my right side to the wall and turn 45. The mobs are always in front of me that way. If they swing around I just back up a small amount along the wall.

5. Learn how to keep agro. Taunt is the obvious choice but you can keep agro with damage and single taunt on a solo mob, group taunt and group buffs on group mobs (group taunt works on solo mobs also if your agro challenged). Group buffs work better once others int he group have estabilished some agro also. After a heal or two lands and others have taken a swing or two at the monster you'll notice your group buffs doing much more for agro.

There is much more, just like with every class but this should help.

Gilg · 01-08-2005, 01:45 AM

Talagand wrote:

GilgUK wrote:

some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.

In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

lol... glad you're not my MT then.

If you're the MT (Main Tank) for your group, then you have one job... to keep your teammates alive. Period. If you honestly think that you can keep aggro on a mob that's being backstabbed and nuked by only using one taunt and then hacking away at it... well, like I said... glad you're not my MT.

Well its worked amazingly well for 41 levels so far, but if you dont agree then tell the people who invite me to groups as soon as I log on that they should find a better tank.

Fae · 01-08-2005, 10:32 AM

GilgUK wrote:

some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.

In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

Not as a guardian. Not for me, anyhow, I've checked.

Many times I've turned auto attack off, or had it off on accident, and held taunt just as well. I don't spam my taunts, as it breaks HOs. I use the right buffs, shouts and attacks when they are called for and do fine.

Guardians are just not about damage output, period.

Tips for you.
1.) Start off with shout, to get everything's attention. Use a few single taunts on the main target, and buff up. Buffs create most of my battle taunt, while shouts are snap aggro.
2.) Get as much Stamina and Agility gear and buffs as you can.
3.) Try to keep your gear at least white. If you start to get blues, greens and grey gear, you will not be able to tank as well.
4.) Use whatever weapon style you like. Many people will preasure you into going one way or another. The only difference is a shield will give you about 200-300 AC. Use that if you need the help, otherwise -- your call.
5.) If in panic /yell, sprint and run in a straight line. Tanks tend to die more then other classes, which means you'll have to serve up the coin to repair the gear. Running from a fight, letting it return to bind and then attacking with better circumstances is usually a better path -- even if you group whines, they'll appreciate not dying.
6.) As a tank, you are in control of how fast you gain experience. You will usually be puller, and must learn when people are ready to fight again. Don't pull if anyone is AFK or below 50% power. If the mobs are really brutal, wait until 80-100% power.
7.) While skills are very important, gear is more important. The difference between an app1 and app3 is noticable, but not a big deal. Getting your gear tip-top shape will cost money, and give you more benefit then a better skill you already have.

Above all, use your noggin -- for other things than bashing.

If you have any questions, feel free to talk to me. '/tell oasis.alison Hey!'

Good luck.

Gilg · 01-08-2005, 05:32 PM

Faeye wrote:

GilgUK wrote:

some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop.

In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

Not as a guardian. Not for me, anyhow, I've checked.

Many times I've turned auto attack off, or had it off on accident, and held taunt just as well. I don't spam my taunts, as it breaks HOs. I use the right buffs, shouts and attacks when they are called for and do fine.

Guardians are just not about damage output, period.

Tips for you.
1.) Start off with shout, to get everything's attention. Use a few single taunts on the main target, and buff up. Buffs create most of my battle taunt, while shouts are snap aggro.
2.) Get as much Stamina and Agility gear and buffs as you can.
3.) Try to keep your gear at least white. If you start to get blues, greens and grey gear, you will not be able to tank as well.
4.) Use whatever weapon style you like. Many people will preasure you into going one way or another. The only difference is a shield will give you about 200-300 AC. Use that if you need the help, otherwise -- your call.
5.) If in panic /yell, sprint and run in a straight line. Tanks tend to die more then other classes, which means you'll have to serve up the coin to repair the gear. Running from a fight, letting it return to bind and then attacking with better circumstances is usually a better path -- even if you group whines, they'll appreciate not dying.
6.) As a tank, you are in control of how fast you gain experience. You will usually be puller, and must learn when people are ready to fight again. Don't pull if anyone is AFK or below 50% power. If the mobs are really brutal, wait until 80-100% power.
7.) While skills are very important, gear is more important. The difference between an app1 and app3 is noticable, but not a big deal. Getting your gear tip-top shape will cost money, and give you more benefit then a better skill you already have.

Above all, use your noggin -- for other things than bashing.

If you have any questions, feel free to talk to me. '/tell oasis.alison Hey!'

Good luck.

Sorry, I bow down to your level 21 knowledge of Guardians.

Xaviou · 01-08-2005, 08:34 PM

Saw that coming a mile away.... she should've too.

Lamprey_02 · 01-08-2005, 08:53 PM

Seeing as the original poster is just starting his guardian, the advice he gets from the 21 folks like Alison will be a lot more benefit than something that applies to lvl 41. Of course, if you're talking about the 20s you would have no reason to bash Alison's post since both she and you experienced them; heck, she experienced them more recently and is likely more qualified to comment on them than is your weeks-old recollection.As for the substance, taunting just once per fight is silly if you have good DPS classes. I grouped with a 29 ranger today in Varsoon's (I'm lvl 27) and I'd lose agro halfway through the fight to her, if not sooner if I only taunted once and then focused on dmg. However, with 3-4 taunts and a few taunting blows I held it just fine. The ranger ran a parser and would list every group member's damage, damage taken, and DPS after each fight. Letting the ranger go all out while I worked for my agro meant her DPS was over 30% higher for the fight, as opposed to when she had to control her agro. The other monk and the assassin went similarly nuts since they all got into competition mode, seeing their DPS displayed on the fly. End result, excellent exp.In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.

Gilg · 01-08-2005, 10:05 PM

or you could have used 2 or 3 taunts and your damage skills still kept agro and have dont 30% more dmg.

Fae · 01-09-2005, 07:05 AM

GilgUK wrote:

or you could have used 2 or 3 taunts and your damage skills still kept agro and have dont 30% more dmg.

If you know what you're doing, you shoudln't have any problem doing damage and taunting. Heck, some damage is taunt. There is no one right way to do things.

Belce · 01-09-2005, 12:59 PM

I thought Alison's points are valid for guardians. I mean really, you don't even have to play a guardian to have a clue to how they are played and played well.

StanleyBostit · 01-09-2005, 01:09 PM

At 23 i find that pulling with the debuff group taunt or the regular group taunt will work fine if you cycle through attacks like mangle, wound, concusion, knee break, slam, and the last one that i can't think of because i'm too tired and then use the group taunt again. Also i'm a fan of combat buffing since i seem to always have my buffs run out at the wrong times. The only problem i ever have is with a friend of mine who is a fury. She sometimes lags and starts healing everything and anything and manages to peel the agro right off of me. Other than that i don't really use much of my power considering i'm a provisioner and always have something to drink/eat. One thing that wasn't mentioned(i think) but is really helpful and obvious...USE HO'S. If you're soloing or grouping and manage to get Hero's armor you will be godly for about three minutes. At 23 i can break 2k AC with just my own buffs and heros armor.

Talaga · 01-09-2005, 07:57 PM

Lamprey_02 wrote:Seeing as the original poster is just starting his guardian, the advice he gets from the 21 folks like Alison will be a lot more benefit than something that applies to lvl 41. Of course, if you're talking about the 20s you would have no reason to bash Alison's post since both she and you experienced them; heck, she experienced them more recently and is likely more qualified to comment on them than is your weeks-old recollection.As for the substance, taunting just once per fight is silly if you have good DPS classes. I grouped with a 29 ranger today in Varsoon's (I'm lvl 27) and I'd lose agro halfway through the fight to her, if not sooner if I only taunted once and then focused on dmg. However, with 3-4 taunts and a few taunting blows I held it just fine. The ranger ran a parser and would list every group member's damage, damage taken, and DPS after each fight. Letting the ranger go all out while I worked for my agro meant her DPS was over 30% higher for the fight, as opposed to when she had to control her agro. The other monk and the assassin went similarly nuts since they all got into competition mode, seeing their DPS displayed on the fly. End result, excellent exp.In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.

Good advice. How you MT when you're in a pick-up group, and how you MT when you're playing with guildmates who know each others' playstyle, will be completely different. If you focus on doing your JOB, rather than trying to stroke your own ego, then everybody in your team will be safer, happier, and will advance faster.The worst teams are those that consist of people who are trying to be something that they weren't designed to be.

DecisiveFor · 01-09-2005, 08:08 PM

You dont know what u are talking about, sorry!

GilgUK that is! At 41st lvl how can you stste one taunt is enough LOL.

Message Edited by DecisiveForce on 01-09-2005 04:16 PM

Noah · 01-09-2005, 08:12 PM

I like cheese.

FunkerVo · 01-09-2005, 08:31 PM

I really hope Kryo stopped reading this thread after a few posts hehe

Too much info for a person just starting a guardian will be overwhelmed, even though we all mean well SMILEY

Keep it simple in the beginning, then if you are comfortable with it, you can take lead, pull smart, learn tricks of what does most aggro and when to cast the different arts for best result SMILEY

I still stand by my opinion that the main role of MT (and usually the guardian) is to taunt and keep the team alive ... how you do this however, is debatable and thus should be taken to another thread SMILEY

DecisiveFor · 01-09-2005, 09:01 PM

Rodney you talk a lot of sense, & i agree with most of what you said. But other grp members play many of those roles too and should, the healer watches for HP drain, & while surveying the group from away from the melee he/she can watch for adds, as can the mages.

Clearly positioning is important etc.

Warnings to the group can come from anyone, instructions should come from the leader or chaos ensues.

But the MT has to get Agro & Protection right foremost. If he/she is also the leader more of your very good points come into play.

DecisiveFor · 01-09-2005, 09:08 PM

Its not about ones level its about application of ones experience, logic, and intelligence. Someone may be 50th level & very intelligent, but if they cannot apply their knowledge correctly its useless. However, as you can see others support your views to a degree.

Arsen · 01-09-2005, 09:41 PM

Lamprey_02 wrote:

In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.

Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.

This is exactly the right thing to do. The exact point of how much you have to taunt and how much you should focus on damage will be a bit different for each group of people you are in - you have to be smart enough to find the right balance.

I have also found that if I spend power on doing damage, then I have to rest more in between pulls. Where as if we have a good group and the DPS people are doing their job, I can be very power-effecient with my taunts and just chain pull at a very fast rate. Guardians can do decent damage, but it takes a good amount of power to do so - the downtime isn't worth it if you have better damage dealers in your group. Nothing will make a group happier than a chain pulling guardian who doesn't require a lot of heals and who never looses aggro SMILEY

Gilg · 01-09-2005, 10:32 PM

Its impossible to argue with all the level 20 masters in this thread, but I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll keep going.

Half the advice in this thread is crap, wait till healer is 80% before pulling, spam taunt, learn how to use all your skills, all this stuff is bollocks this all all you need to do:

Nothing will make a group happier than a chain pulling guardian who doesn't require a lot of heals and who never looses aggro

50% of our skills are a waste of time, they take too long to cast and have no real use. Just pulling with taunt, or entrench then taunt, and then doing damage with an occasional taunt is sufficient for 90% of encounters. About the only time you ever lose agro is if you just melee without doing and damage skills, now admittedly there are problems getting agro back when you do lose it but thats a different subject.

Now if I can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills for rest of fight, but another guardian uses 10 taunts and no dmg skills which is the better for a group?

Arsen · 01-10-2005, 01:05 AM

GilgUK wrote:

Now if I can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills for rest of fight, but another guardian uses 10 taunts and no dmg skills which is the better for a group?

It honestly depends - if you end the fight OOP and everyone has to wait for you before starting the next encounter then you are better off using your taunts more frequently and letting people with better power/damage ratio attacks to do their work.

No one is discounting your experiences (even though you are discounting everyone elses) but I honestly have trouble believing you can use your one super taunt and hold aggro in every situation (which skill is this anyway?). Even your paragraph above mentions using the occassional taunt throughout the fight - which I think is what most of us are advising.

Btw, I also have heard that after we get Entrench, you can change your tactics to some degree to take advantage of that. That doesn't mean that you can ignore all the other tactis pre level 32 though. The original poster is lower in level and insisting that low-mid level tactics are 'crap' just because they don't apply to you is pretty silly.

Message Edited by Arsenal on 01-09-2005 12:13 PM

Gilg · 01-10-2005, 01:44 AM

you basically get the same skills from levels 1 to 50 so tactics hardly change theres no difference between a level 15^^ and a level 40^^ mob with regards to how you fight it. You taunt it, group attacks it, mob dies, rinse and repeat for 50 levels. The only difference comes with group x2 etc mobs and even then its not like its hard to hold agro.

With the right drink, and a good group you dont run out of power. Ofcourse if you dont have these factors you use less power, but then so does the rest of the group so the amount of taunting needed scales.

01-07-2005, 01:18 PM	#1
Kryogen Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	Hello all due to much pressure from my friends to be our tank i decided on guardian...plus they sound fun . All i am wondering is what tips/hints can u give me to let me be the best tank i can be. Just anything i should know that will make tanking easier and make me not look like a newb lol. WEll thank you all in advance __________________

01-07-2005, 02:26 PM	#2
FunkerVo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	Hey KryoMy tip for you is to remember that you are not present in the group to do damage. You are there to taunt and to protect your groups members, so preserve power for taunts, and dont think so much about lashing out damage specials all the time.You will also most probably be pulling, and a bow will be a great tool for this. Remember to stack up on arrows Also, look up info about sentinel, allay and stand firm - abilities that you get in the 20s as a guardian and that can be very helpful in protecting your friends.Good luck __________________ Haqim 70 Assassin, ratty, Ancarim Iron Legion Splitpaw server

01-07-2005, 08:22 PM	#4
AngelR Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 50	I think the most important skill you can have as a Guardian, or any MT for that matter, is leadership. Tanks are generally slotted into the "battlefield general" role... many decisions will be placed on your shoulders, and rightly so. You need to garner the respect of your group/raid members so that they will trust those decisions. They can't be questioning your ability to triage a large battle and select the right mobs, choose the proper positioning, set up the correct HO's (many don't know that we can set up a really nice slow with priests, it's called Crippling Shroud), call for a retreat, etc... Just remember, perceived skill is 10% actual ability and 90% confidence. The days I perform the worst as a tank are the days where, for whatever reason (though it's usually because of work ), I'm not feeling to good about myself. A few "brown bottles of courage" usually does the trick, though. (Though by no means am I encouraging you to drink while tanking... it's a skill that takes many many years of practice. LOL) __________________

01-07-2005, 08:33 PM	#6
Talaga Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	Kryogenic wrote: Hello all due to much pressure from my friends to be our tank i decided on guardian...plus they sound fun . All i am wondering is what tips/hints can u give me to let me be the best tank i can be. Just anything i should know that will make tanking easier and make me not look like a newb lol. WEll thank you all in advance Can't add much to what's already been said... but I can reinforce it. TAUNT : This is your most important ability as a Guardian/Tank. Make certain that your taunts are the highest level they can be.AWARENESS : Know when to yell RUN! Keep an eye on your team's health and power bars. If your healer is out of power (OOP) before the mob is down to half-health, then tell your team to get the heck out of there, or you're going to have a group-wipe on your hands.HOTKEYS : Many players forget that they have 9 hotkey bars. It's very easy to set up a hotkey bar that is strictly used for when you're in a group, and set up another that you switch to when you're soloing. On your group hotkey bar, place all of your taunts and hate-inducing attacks together. On your solo bar, you can get rid of all of the taunts (since you don't really need them) and put your attacks all together. To change between hotkey bars, use SHIFT-#, where # is the number of the hotkey bar you want to use. (Your primary hotkey bar will change to whichever bar you choose.)Everything else the posters above me said should be taken as gospel. Get a bow and carry arrows for those "tight" pulls. Make certain that you upgrade your armor regularly. Don't let the team follow you from mob to mob... set up a camp where you will pull to. Tell the other players not to cast anything until you have full aggro. Get your healer/buffer to buff you BEFORE you pull, not during.Follow these guidelines, and learn from your mistakes (which you WILL make, just like everyone else) and you'll do just fine. Have fun. __________________ Never equate education with intelligence; nor intelligence with wisdom.

01-07-2005, 08:37 PM	#7
Talaga Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	GilgUK wrote: some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop. In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills. lol... glad you're not my MT then. If you're the MT (Main Tank) for your group, then you have one job... to keep your teammates alive. Period. If you honestly think that you can keep aggro on a mob that's being backstabbed and nuked by only using one taunt and then hacking away at it... well, like I said... glad you're not my MT. __________________ Never equate education with intelligence; nor intelligence with wisdom.

01-07-2005, 05:02 PM	#3
Rokna Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	- taunt, taunt, taunt - you're supposed to take damage for your group, keep aggro, so learn when to fire your taunts - or always fire them as soon as they're ready - you have to decide whether to buy that "Halberd of uberness" or the "Shield of incredible toughness"? - take the shield (remember? take damage for your group) - you're the one running in front of all other groupmembers, so know your way - mages travelling first tend to get killed by that mob waiting around the corner :smileywink: - learn how to lead a group - maybe hardest part, but there will be chaos if the puller isn't the one to tell the group to run, it leads to dead mages when they run first to another spot

01-07-2005, 08:32 PM	#5
Gilg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop. In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills.

01-07-2005, 08:43 PM	#8
Cleric Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	In addition to taunting, don't forget some of your short-term group buffs, and de-buffs. They work great as taunting tools in addition to the other benefits they provide. Granted, some of the skills may not have noticable effects in an of themselves (it's hard to notice if we actually 'slow' a mob), but get 2 or 3 or 4 effects on a mob, and it does make a difference. As a guardian, I tend to find that my power goes down quicker than most other classes (most of our abilities are short-cast time, short duration, short recast). So make sure you have good drink, so your power regens fast.

01-07-2005, 09:45 PM	#9
epcle Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3	GilgUK wrote: some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop. In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills. I agree with GilgUK here for the most part. I mean, I usually taunt more than once, but I generally find it is much more beneficial to do maximum damage and throw in a taunt here or there... That works best for the group, and I usually don't lose aggro. Also, a lot of times I seemed to be grouped with idiots who don't seem to understand the benefits of provisioners food. Hell, I almost always use it, and since my power regens about twice as fast as people that don't use it, I find I can generally afford to use all my power almost every fight, cause I'll be back at full by the time they are. And boy does it confuse people when I use my parser to show the group the dps from the last fight, only to see the Guardian out did everyone including the scouts/mages. :smileyvery-happy: __________________ Hold Fast - Guardian - Oasis

01-07-2005, 11:05 PM	#10
Rodney Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	Man I really have to wonder what game most of you are playing, anytime someone tells you that your just a meatshield and you stand there and take hits is a FOOL get a new group or kick em out. The MT for any group is so much more then just a taunting meatshield is not funny. The MT picks the spot where you fight, the BIGGEST ADVANTAGE you have over the mobs is the selection of where you fight, this makes or breaks the fight, you get adds you die, you dont get adds you live. The MT should be watching for adds ALL THE TIME, and move the mob when one shows up. Where do you move the mob, hmm the smart MT will have this worked out before the fight. The MT should be watching EVERYONES health and call out orders to others to cover the ones in need, zerkers are awesome of this. How many of you know players that hit atk and zone out till the fight is over. The MT should be watching everyones power and know when its save to pull and not safe. I dont spam taunts but with a new group will taunt a lot, but over time will find the best taunt rate for this group. Every undeeded taunt is wasted power that could be used for atks. If someone is forcing me to spam taunt then we will have a talk and he will adjust or he will be the new MT. Learn your special atks and what the mob uses on you, if this mob hits you with 400hp specials then you best be using power darining atks and let others know to do the same. Its a real bummer to have a mob kill you with a 400hp atk at the end of a long fight because no one drained his power, on a long fight they should have zero power by mid fight, saves a lot of power on the healer. Get good weapons your dps does make a difference. There are smart tanks and meatshields which do you want to be? __________________ Rodney Legs

01-08-2005, 12:13 AM	#11
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	Back tot he topic... 1. AC and resists are king for you. Your job is to mitigate damage and AC and resists do that. Good gear will have good HP on it so focus on AC and resists. 2. Your there to MT not do damage. You can do OK damage if the group isn't high agro. If they are high agro then that means things are dying fast anyway so don't worry about damage. This also effects your weapon/equipment choice. You can ready the 1,000+ threads on 2H vs 1H shield combo. 3. Learn how to pull. Mobs are either solo or group. If they are group then you get one (1) ^^, or two (2) ^, or one (1) ^ and two no arrows, or three plus (3+) mobs. Find them before you pull and see which one is the biggest threat and target them for the pull. 4. Learn how to place the mobs. If mobs are behind you you can not parry or block. Learn how to place the mobs (which is hard in EQ2). Use the enviroment when you can. In Nektropos castle I'll pull and put my right side to the wall and turn 45. The mobs are always in front of me that way. If they swing around I just back up a small amount along the wall. 5. Learn how to keep agro. Taunt is the obvious choice but you can keep agro with damage and single taunt on a solo mob, group taunt and group buffs on group mobs (group taunt works on solo mobs also if your agro challenged). Group buffs work better once others int he group have estabilished some agro also. After a heal or two lands and others have taken a swing or two at the monster you'll notice your group buffs doing much more for agro. There is much more, just like with every class but this should help. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

01-08-2005, 01:45 AM	#12
Gilg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Talagand wrote: GilgUK wrote: some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop. In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills. lol... glad you're not my MT then. If you're the MT (Main Tank) for your group, then you have one job... to keep your teammates alive. Period. If you honestly think that you can keep aggro on a mob that's being backstabbed and nuked by only using one taunt and then hacking away at it... well, like I said... glad you're not my MT. Well its worked amazingly well for 41 levels so far, but if you dont agree then tell the people who invite me to groups as soon as I log on that they should find a better tank.

01-08-2005, 10:32 AM	#13
Fae Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 89	GilgUK wrote: some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop. In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills. Not as a guardian. Not for me, anyhow, I've checked. Many times I've turned auto attack off, or had it off on accident, and held taunt just as well. I don't spam my taunts, as it breaks HOs. I use the right buffs, shouts and attacks when they are called for and do fine. Guardians are just not about damage output, period. Tips for you. 1.) Start off with shout, to get everything's attention. Use a few single taunts on the main target, and buff up. Buffs create most of my battle taunt, while shouts are snap aggro. 2.) Get as much Stamina and Agility gear and buffs as you can. 3.) Try to keep your gear at least white. If you start to get blues, greens and grey gear, you will not be able to tank as well. 4.) Use whatever weapon style you like. Many people will preasure you into going one way or another. The only difference is a shield will give you about 200-300 AC. Use that if you need the help, otherwise -- your call. 5.) If in panic /yell, sprint and run in a straight line. Tanks tend to die more then other classes, which means you'll have to serve up the coin to repair the gear. Running from a fight, letting it return to bind and then attacking with better circumstances is usually a better path -- even if you group whines, they'll appreciate not dying. 6.) As a tank, you are in control of how fast you gain experience. You will usually be puller, and must learn when people are ready to fight again. Don't pull if anyone is AFK or below 50% power. If the mobs are really brutal, wait until 80-100% power. 7.) While skills are very important, gear is more important. The difference between an app1 and app3 is noticable, but not a big deal. Getting your gear tip-top shape will cost money, and give you more benefit then a better skill you already have. Above all, use your noggin -- for other things than bashing. If you have any questions, feel free to talk to me. '/tell oasis.alison Hey!' Good luck.

01-08-2005, 05:32 PM	#14
Gilg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Faeye wrote: GilgUK wrote: some of u lot tank wierd. Theres no need to spam taunt every time it refreshes, you are in a group to do dps aswell as tank otherwise you might aswell turn off attack and just taunt non stop. In almost every encounter you can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills. Not as a guardian. Not for me, anyhow, I've checked. Many times I've turned auto attack off, or had it off on accident, and held taunt just as well. I don't spam my taunts, as it breaks HOs. I use the right buffs, shouts and attacks when they are called for and do fine. Guardians are just not about damage output, period. Tips for you. 1.) Start off with shout, to get everything's attention. Use a few single taunts on the main target, and buff up. Buffs create most of my battle taunt, while shouts are snap aggro. 2.) Get as much Stamina and Agility gear and buffs as you can. 3.) Try to keep your gear at least white. If you start to get blues, greens and grey gear, you will not be able to tank as well. 4.) Use whatever weapon style you like. Many people will preasure you into going one way or another. The only difference is a shield will give you about 200-300 AC. Use that if you need the help, otherwise -- your call. 5.) If in panic /yell, sprint and run in a straight line. Tanks tend to die more then other classes, which means you'll have to serve up the coin to repair the gear. Running from a fight, letting it return to bind and then attacking with better circumstances is usually a better path -- even if you group whines, they'll appreciate not dying. 6.) As a tank, you are in control of how fast you gain experience. You will usually be puller, and must learn when people are ready to fight again. Don't pull if anyone is AFK or below 50% power. If the mobs are really brutal, wait until 80-100% power. 7.) While skills are very important, gear is more important. The difference between an app1 and app3 is noticable, but not a big deal. Getting your gear tip-top shape will cost money, and give you more benefit then a better skill you already have. Above all, use your noggin -- for other things than bashing. If you have any questions, feel free to talk to me. '/tell oasis.alison Hey!' Good luck. Sorry, I bow down to your level 21 knowledge of Guardians.

01-08-2005, 08:34 PM	#15
Xaviou General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	Saw that coming a mile away.... she should've too.

01-08-2005, 08:53 PM	#16
Lamprey_02 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 353	Seeing as the original poster is just starting his guardian, the advice he gets from the 21 folks like Alison will be a lot more benefit than something that applies to lvl 41. Of course, if you're talking about the 20s you would have no reason to bash Alison's post since both she and you experienced them; heck, she experienced them more recently and is likely more qualified to comment on them than is your weeks-old recollection.As for the substance, taunting just once per fight is silly if you have good DPS classes. I grouped with a 29 ranger today in Varsoon's (I'm lvl 27) and I'd lose agro halfway through the fight to her, if not sooner if I only taunted once and then focused on dmg. However, with 3-4 taunts and a few taunting blows I held it just fine. The ranger ran a parser and would list every group member's damage, damage taken, and DPS after each fight. Letting the ranger go all out while I worked for my agro meant her DPS was over 30% higher for the fight, as opposed to when she had to control her agro. The other monk and the assassin went similarly nuts since they all got into competition mode, seeing their DPS displayed on the fly. End result, excellent exp.In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27.

01-08-2005, 10:05 PM	#17
Gilg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	or you could have used 2 or 3 taunts and your damage skills still kept agro and have dont 30% more dmg.

01-09-2005, 07:05 AM	#18
Fae Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 89	GilgUK wrote: or you could have used 2 or 3 taunts and your damage skills still kept agro and have dont 30% more dmg. If you know what you're doing, you shoudln't have any problem doing damage and taunting. Heck, some damage is taunt. There is no one right way to do things.

01-09-2005, 12:59 PM	#19
Belce Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 318	I thought Alison's points are valid for guardians. I mean really, you don't even have to play a guardian to have a clue to how they are played and played well. __________________

01-09-2005, 01:09 PM	#20
StanleyBostit Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	At 23 i find that pulling with the debuff group taunt or the regular group taunt will work fine if you cycle through attacks like mangle, wound, concusion, knee break, slam, and the last one that i can't think of because i'm too tired and then use the group taunt again. Also i'm a fan of combat buffing since i seem to always have my buffs run out at the wrong times. The only problem i ever have is with a friend of mine who is a fury. She sometimes lags and starts healing everything and anything and manages to peel the agro right off of me. Other than that i don't really use much of my power considering i'm a provisioner and always have something to drink/eat. One thing that wasn't mentioned(i think) but is really helpful and obvious...USE HO'S. If you're soloing or grouping and manage to get Hero's armor you will be godly for about three minutes. At 23 i can break 2k AC with just my own buffs and heros armor.

01-09-2005, 07:57 PM	#21
Talaga Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	Lamprey_02 wrote:Seeing as the original poster is just starting his guardian, the advice he gets from the 21 folks like Alison will be a lot more benefit than something that applies to lvl 41. Of course, if you're talking about the 20s you would have no reason to bash Alison's post since both she and you experienced them; heck, she experienced them more recently and is likely more qualified to comment on them than is your weeks-old recollection.As for the substance, taunting just once per fight is silly if you have good DPS classes. I grouped with a 29 ranger today in Varsoon's (I'm lvl 27) and I'd lose agro halfway through the fight to her, if not sooner if I only taunted once and then focused on dmg. However, with 3-4 taunts and a few taunting blows I held it just fine. The ranger ran a parser and would list every group member's damage, damage taken, and DPS after each fight. Letting the ranger go all out while I worked for my agro meant her DPS was over 30% higher for the fight, as opposed to when she had to control her agro. The other monk and the assassin went similarly nuts since they all got into competition mode, seeing their DPS displayed on the fly. End result, excellent exp.In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously.Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27. Good advice. How you MT when you're in a pick-up group, and how you MT when you're playing with guildmates who know each others' playstyle, will be completely different. If you focus on doing your JOB, rather than trying to stroke your own ego, then everybody in your team will be safer, happier, and will advance faster.The worst teams are those that consist of people who are trying to be something that they weren't designed to be. __________________ Never equate education with intelligence; nor intelligence with wisdom.

01-09-2005, 08:08 PM	#22
DecisiveFor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	You dont know what u are talking about, sorry! GilgUK that is! At 41st lvl how can you stste one taunt is enough LOL. Message Edited by DecisiveForce on 01-09-2005 04:16 PM __________________ Snowlion 31st Level Kerra Guardian - Highkeep Senator - Order of Honor He who dies with the most toys wins!

01-09-2005, 08:12 PM	#23
Noah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Willow Wood Posts: 229	I like cheese.

01-09-2005, 08:31 PM	#24
FunkerVo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	I really hope Kryo stopped reading this thread after a few posts hehe Too much info for a person just starting a guardian will be overwhelmed, even though we all mean well Keep it simple in the beginning, then if you are comfortable with it, you can take lead, pull smart, learn tricks of what does most aggro and when to cast the different arts for best result I still stand by my opinion that the main role of MT (and usually the guardian) is to taunt and keep the team alive ... how you do this however, is debatable and thus should be taken to another thread __________________ Haqim 70 Assassin, ratty, Ancarim Iron Legion Splitpaw server

01-09-2005, 09:01 PM	#25
DecisiveFor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Rodney you talk a lot of sense, & i agree with most of what you said. But other grp members play many of those roles too and should, the healer watches for HP drain, & while surveying the group from away from the melee he/she can watch for adds, as can the mages. Clearly positioning is important etc. Warnings to the group can come from anyone, instructions should come from the leader or chaos ensues. But the MT has to get Agro & Protection right foremost. If he/she is also the leader more of your very good points come into play. __________________ Snowlion 31st Level Kerra Guardian - Highkeep Senator - Order of Honor He who dies with the most toys wins!

01-09-2005, 09:08 PM	#26
DecisiveFor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Its not about ones level its about application of ones experience, logic, and intelligence. Someone may be 50th level & very intelligent, but if they cannot apply their knowledge correctly its useless. However, as you can see others support your views to a degree. __________________ Snowlion 31st Level Kerra Guardian - Highkeep Senator - Order of Honor He who dies with the most toys wins!

01-09-2005, 09:41 PM	#27
Arsen Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Lamprey_02 wrote: In the end I could keep agro fine with all those DPS classes going nuts, provided I focused on agro instead of on damage. End result, monk, assassin and a ranger boosted their damage by 30%, guardian lost about 30%; net result, a LOT more damage dealt by the group, only one person needed to be healed. Had I taken the ubah lvl 41 advice and started sending the DPS classes tells to quit agroing so I can coast by with 1 taunt per fight... Heh. Seriously. Let your damage dealers do the damage, focus on agro and taking damage well via buffs/gear, it'll work better for your group. At least until lvl 27. This is exactly the right thing to do. The exact point of how much you have to taunt and how much you should focus on damage will be a bit different for each group of people you are in - you have to be smart enough to find the right balance. I have also found that if I spend power on doing damage, then I have to rest more in between pulls. Where as if we have a good group and the DPS people are doing their job, I can be very power-effecient with my taunts and just chain pull at a very fast rate. Guardians can do decent damage, but it takes a good amount of power to do so - the downtime isn't worth it if you have better damage dealers in your group. Nothing will make a group happier than a chain pulling guardian who doesn't require a lot of heals and who never looses aggro __________________ Let's keep the discussion out of the realm of the absurd. - SOELegal

01-09-2005, 10:32 PM	#28
Gilg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Its impossible to argue with all the level 20 masters in this thread, but I'm a glutton for punishment so I'll keep going. Half the advice in this thread is crap, wait till healer is 80% before pulling, spam taunt, learn how to use all your skills, all this stuff is bollocks this all all you need to do: Nothing will make a group happier than a chain pulling guardian who doesn't require a lot of heals and who never looses aggro 50% of our skills are a waste of time, they take too long to cast and have no real use. Just pulling with taunt, or entrench then taunt, and then doing damage with an occasional taunt is sufficient for 90% of encounters. About the only time you ever lose agro is if you just melee without doing and damage skills, now admittedly there are problems getting agro back when you do lose it but thats a different subject. Now if I can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills for rest of fight, but another guardian uses 10 taunts and no dmg skills which is the better for a group?

01-10-2005, 01:05 AM	#29
Arsen Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	GilgUK wrote: Now if I can hold agro with 1 taunt and then using dmg skills for rest of fight, but another guardian uses 10 taunts and no dmg skills which is the better for a group? It honestly depends - if you end the fight OOP and everyone has to wait for you before starting the next encounter then you are better off using your taunts more frequently and letting people with better power/damage ratio attacks to do their work. No one is discounting your experiences (even though you are discounting everyone elses) but I honestly have trouble believing you can use your one super taunt and hold aggro in every situation (which skill is this anyway?). Even your paragraph above mentions using the occassional taunt throughout the fight - which I think is what most of us are advising. Btw, I also have heard that after we get Entrench, you can change your tactics to some degree to take advantage of that. That doesn't mean that you can ignore all the other tactis pre level 32 though. The original poster is lower in level and insisting that low-mid level tactics are 'crap' just because they don't apply to you is pretty silly. Message Edited by Arsenal on 01-09-2005 12:13 PM __________________ Let's keep the discussion out of the realm of the absurd. - SOELegal

01-10-2005, 01:44 AM	#30
Gilg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	you basically get the same skills from levels 1 to 50 so tactics hardly change theres no difference between a level 15^^ and a level 40^^ mob with regards to how you fight it. You taunt it, group attacks it, mob dies, rinse and repeat for 50 levels. The only difference comes with group x2 etc mobs and even then its not like its hard to hold agro. With the right drink, and a good group you dont run out of power. Ofcourse if you dont have these factors you use less power, but then so does the rest of the group so the amount of taunting needed scales.