Chaos Descending: Scout Feedback

Caith · 10-09-2018, 03:28 AM

Please provide all Scout related feedback here. Please remember to be specific, including the name and tier of any relevant abilities, any relevant zone or target information.

Caith · 10-09-2018, 03:45 AM

Beastlord

Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 13%.

Brigand

Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 12%.

Dirge

Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 7%.

Swashbuckler

Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 4%.

Troubador

Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 4%.

10-09-2018, 11:18 PM

Caith i think you might have missed the assassin update Tongue

I think a good 25 percent increase to base damage of profession abilities would be a good start for assassins. T1 DPS should not have ascension spells being in their top 5 parse damage.

I do find it a little odd that Beastlords are getting biggest increase atm when they seem to do very well on parses to this day.

Assassins on the other hand have been driven into near extinction and are on the endangered species list. Having returned to the game recently after a few years break, it was a tough pill to swallow to see how bad assassins had fallen out of grace with the EQ 2 Gods. I started an assassin on day one when EQ 2 came went live so many years ago, and i would never even think of betraying him just because Rangers have been dealt a better hand as of recently. It would be nice however to see assassins returned to their formal glory a respected member of the T1 DPS.

Ascensions and massive potency increases in the game see to be some of the main reasons for their fall. It seems that potency will be brought down a bit with this new expansion which is good for melee classes. It seems there was a move away from auto attack DPS in the game for some reason. Yet when DPS moved away from auto attack damage, assassins and other melee dps classes were not given anything to fill in the massive hole left in our dps. I remember a few years back when auto attack dps would be 35 to 40 percent of assassins parse. To this day this is a hole that has yet to be filled. Ascensions do not really count since everyone has access to the same ones. Ascensions should never be part of class balance for that reason.

My hope is that auto attack DPS makes a come back in this expansion so that stats like multi attack, flurry, and haste once again mean something. Crit bonus being raised is one good way to do that. Although I do have a issue with the fact of how crit bonus is currently handled. It has a cap and then we use crit bonus over cap to go over the cap. Yet there is no in-game way to see how much crit bonus over cap you have without adding it all up. Either add crit bonus overcap to our stats that we can access, or just get rid of crit bonus overcap and take the cap away from crit bonus. The game was most balanced when we used to balance crit bonus and potency to be at somewhat the same lvl. If auto attack continues to be a lost part of our DPS, then maybe our buffs need to be considered and add to that many melee classes whos buffs are less then desired atm.

doit · 10-10-2018, 12:52 PM

Burning intensity AA went from 12.5% increase to base potency to just flat 1.3 fervor...probably fervor needs to be increased since its just a temp

10-10-2018, 05:43 PM

Ralissk's Perception (Beastlord) isn't working. It restores no Mana at all.

10-11-2018, 02:59 AM

Incredible.... can't believe Assassins are seeing no love again. Our main (supposedly) contribution to group and raids is our DPS and we cant even bring that to the table currently. I guess the glory days of being a true T1 DPS are gone. What a shame. Why even have this class in game any more?

10-11-2018, 03:52 AM

as for rogues 12 % and 4% are nice but a few more tweaks could be make that could go a long way
Im sure there will be more changes to come

I would like to suggest though for brigands that Thieves guild give at least 5 abil double cast/ fervor ..or something along those lines
rather than it being just 10 potency and for dance of metal to get a 20/+ % increase to make it some what relevant again.. a lot of people are debating wether its worth it or not .. i use it for the dmg increase per use ..but thats about it
any other tweaks such as the AA in heroic tree that is supposed to reduce reuse speed of dance of metal as well would be nice to see ..even will full 10 points the reuse is 1 full minute

10-11-2018, 04:51 AM

There are still a lot of class adjustments coming from what another post said

10-11-2018, 04:55 AM

The % dmg increase is actually not going to be noticeable at all.. they did one of those this xpac iirc and yeah Noda..if auto attack isn’t coming back.. we need a huge boost. Rangers nah.. Assassins maybe.. I never got around to playing mine. Bards definately. As far as dom, ofc you should be using it..it does need a huge boost as well.. it used to be on par with an ffu hit... tg hopefully will get a rework along with some other stuff

10-11-2018, 05:20 AM

I would have to agree.. the % increase is hardly noticeable
sins could use a bit of love for sure, mortal blade isnt what it used to be at all .. predators final trick is decent giving 72 pot.. but when we're up in the 50, 60k's still in next xpack.. i could see them giving a fervor boost of 10 or something like that fully buffed..

Dance IMO would need a bigger boost than 20% (again just my opinion) esp like slica said it did used to be on par with an FFU hit
hopefully we see some good reworks for both sins and rogues.. they are well needed.

BL having feral intensity giving 10 fervor is a little bit too little in my opinion as well .. you're taking 20 % base pot and turning it into 10 ferv.. needs a bit more of a kick up to about 20 i would think..

10-11-2018, 05:44 AM

For the Assassin/predator in general; i would think fixing Perfectionist for starters would be great
much like babyshark said with the DOM timer not working properly Perfectionist in the Predator tree does not actually reduce the reuse timers of (lets say assassinate) by 50% and only gives a 15% potency increase to the ability as opposed to actually increasing the damage of it by 15%

It would be great to see a bit of rework on those AA's that dont quite work right
Rouges , a dance buff would be very much appreciated
Venom explosion even fully spec'd into hardly does any dps nor does shred like it used to
poisoned blades isnt what it used to be either but it does decent.
if neither of those on the left side get fixed
i think it would be interesting seeing Blinding dust to have an extra hit that throws out a dot that ticks (for example like blades that goes off every 4s or shank every 3.3).

making mercy or anger a perma buff i think would greatly benefit as well, even if its not a 65% xfer , i could see it being on par with a swash of 29% roughly

Uncle · 10-11-2018, 08:28 AM

I recommend making it 10~20% increase..

10-11-2018, 09:51 AM

I don't find the intention some scouts got a slight amount of auto attack multiplier that doesn't make changes to dps at all.
Constant amount such as those stat goes old-fashion soon but as to this stat, It seems totally worthless, doesn' it?

10-11-2018, 12:13 PM

Beastlords are supposed to be dps and needs a lot more than 13% increase. As it is now, they are usually stuffed in struggling Groups to manafeed or heal instead of doing the job they are supposed to.

Bards... omg, increase our Power regen to make it usefull in cases when there are no chanters around and increase burst damage to be able to put out some useful VC's even when the Ascensions are down.

Assassins should be on par with ranger. Didnt play mine this xpac but as it looks on our raid parse they are Close but not quite there.

Brigs and Swash - please atleast make the debuffs powerful again and swap the damage increase! Swash is so far behind brigand already, why make it even worse??

10-11-2018, 02:01 PM

Mercy or anger is fine as is imo. It’s situationally a great ability to use...it’s not really needed in a raid setting but it does help in heroics with an under geared tank.

10-11-2018, 02:04 PM

As far as actually reworking combat arts...that’s something that needs to wait... is auto attack going to be relevant again? Is it going to be 40-50% of our parse again? If so some things may need to be tuned down. I kno if I got a 40% dmg boost I would be beating mages as is.

10-11-2018, 04:26 PM

Very much doubt they are gonna make autoattack relevant again. But as far as all scouts go I would like to see poisons to be slightly more relevant than it is now. Atm poisons are last on the parse. Would be nice to see it at least in the middle somewhere.

For rogues I would like to see, as others said, an improvement to DoM but also maybe a bigger siphon of ABmod on Thieving Essence.

For Brigand I would like to see an improvement to Thieves Guild. In the prestige tree I would like to see Gang Up changed to actually improve Deceit and Ruthless Cunning. As it is those 2 skills are a waste of time to use. Would also be nice to see Poisoned Blades and Venom Explosion improved.

Would also be nice to have a function for all classes to put all your buffs in some sort of macro to cast them all in one button push. Would free alot of hotbar space.

10-11-2018, 10:01 PM

All class balancing should start with making class defining abilities/ AAs relevant to where the game is presently and its frustrating that hasn't happened a good example would be Thieves guild, if it gave 10 Fervor instead of a meaningless POT amount it would have been relevant in PoP.
Increasing professional abilities by 12% once again is meaningless if those abilities do less DPS than a thorns potion! If auto attk damage is not revamped then you would need to put a zero on the end to make any significant difference.
Poisons need a massive boost across all the different types as they are really part of the overall scout arsenal and being ignored for so long is kinda sad.

10-12-2018, 04:50 PM

Swash is behind everyone, but a swap on damage increase is the last thing we need, what we need is our damage to be increased so that we can be more competitive on the parse. I've said it before, there should be no T2 classes anymore for scouts, since the summoners used to be T2 casters and look what happened with them. No one wants a lesser DPS, your utility (Bards/Enchanters should be for most debuffs).

Swash needs the most love and I'm losing faith that it will ever see it.

10-12-2018, 05:20 PM

Can I ask Dirge 7% and troub 4% the reason for that difference is what ? when both bards actually do the same numbers in dps (in the same gear) ?

Some requests for a little bard loving please :

please please please please please please removed the restrictions and allow us to use player crafted posions , there is no reason at all as a "scout" arch type we should not be allowed to use them...

As mentioned please for the love of god make our regen actually worth using at some point in the game because for the last god knows how many years its not even on the hotbars.
Please remove the timer from VC or match them up so the endlines lower the times on both VC AND RO.

10-12-2018, 07:15 PM

Assassin / Scout re-balance suggestions :

Ascensions :

Scouts should have the casting speed of ascensions cut down to .5 seconds to 1 second. Scouts are supposed to be the quick attackers, one of the reasons I played a scout is because I did not like long casting spells.
Ascensions double cast for scouts should be based off of ability double cast. Scouts are not casters and should not have to sacrifice "scout" stats for caster stats.
Ability Double cast should be as readily available to scouts as Spell Double cast is for Mages.

Overall Scout Stats:

-Ability Double is a stat a lot of scouts are lacking that could help them climb up the DPS charts to compete with Mages which have all of the spells double casting because of the ease to amass spell double cast.

- Auto Attack Stats as they currently stand are pretty much useless, yet this is what most of our buffs and gear give us.

DPS
Haste
Multi Attack
AE Auto attack
Strikethrough
Accuracy
Flurry
WDB

- If auto attack makes a comeback great, but if it does not... we need to do something about these stats.

- Haste conversion to Ability Double Attack. Currently haste converts to Flurry, so to stats that mean nothing atm convert to each other. Casters have spell haste convert to spell double attack... Therefore, scouts should have haste convert to Ability Double Attack.

- As far as the other stats go... ATM i am not sure. You could have some of them cap and overcap go into either Fervor, Crit bonus over cap, Potency or Ability Mod.

- Ability Mod should have 50 percent cap removed from scout abilities - Scout abilities damage is much lower then mages, there for many of their abilities fail to take full advantage of ability mod.

Assassin Buffs:

- Honed Reflexes - add ability Double cast

- Exacting - remove the 1 minute restriction and have it apply to all abilities

- Shared Poisons/ apply Poisons - Increase damage

- Whirling Blades - replace static increase of slashing, piercing, ranged and crushing and replace it with 25 percent increase of base Offensive Skills. Also increase damage of the Damage Proc.

- Deadly Focus - This buff currently gives auto attack buffs (accuracy 10percent, multi attack 108, and slashing, piercing, ranged and crushing 54). Change the slashing, piercing, ranged and crushing to 30 to 50 percent increase of base offensive skills. Other suggestions to make this buff worth casting.... Add an increase to ability and auto attack range to 30 meters. This would be a neat buff for jousting. Another suggestion would be to add either Ability mood or Proc damage to this buff.

- Frontload - This one requires an increase to poison damage and procs as a whole

- Villainy - If auto attack remains current stat, then maybe an increase from 1.26 base auto attack multiplier to 3 or 5 would help. Also, could add Ability Mod or Ability Double Cast. Maybe even an increase to Mythical Crit chance.

- Predator Final Trick (AA) - It currently increases potency by 72 percent. Either add 20 Fervor to it or replace the potency with fervor.

- Dragon Claws (AA) - This buff has changed on beta. It currently gives 13.5 fervor. It used to give 25 percent of base potency. It should then either give 25 percent increase to base fervor or a flat 25 fervor.

Abilities:

- Shadow Agent - currently it takes to long to cast. Reduce the casting time to either .5 or 1 second. Also the recast should come down to 2 minutes.

- Mortal Blade - reduce the recast to 30 seconds so that it can be used in every Fatal Followup Chain.

10-12-2018, 11:43 PM

Assassin
First, I want to agree with some suggestions Vipersx mentioned.

Shadow Agent cast time to .5 secs
Let's make poison relevant again. I would even be fine with it doing dps based on stacks of Acid Blades or Carnage.
Make regular AA Shadow, Until Cancelled
Make Mortal Blade inflict damage twice like all other stealth attacks with AA, Dexterous Attacks
Fix Carnage Wrought (group wide Carnage Prestige tree). It procs ~45k damage once or twice a minute. Remove restriction and boost dps for group based on number of stacks. Could even limit it to melee.
Some buffs require recast on zoning such as Murderous Design and Apply/Shared Poison
Give a small cb overcap buff, like 50 or 1% of total CB, that will last 30 secs. to group would be ideal to help us feel needed I would be ok if it was tied to our epic spell Shadow Agent
Add a combat mitt debuff

10-13-2018, 12:03 AM

Mermut · 10-13-2018, 01:03 AM

1) Ascensions have nothing to do with your base class
2) Spell double cast is MUCH easier to get the Ability Double cast. This change would hurt more then help.. even if it was possible to have the same ascension class work differently depending on the base class.

Casting speed isn't 'spell haste'. It works for everything... spells, combat arts, taunts, heals.

10-13-2018, 04:40 AM

Ascensions have everything to do with Class balance. Ascensions happen to be be in just about every classes top 5 DPS on a parse. Therefore, if you want to be T1 DPS... you need to max your Ascensions. With Ascensions so important to DPS, scout classes are forced to select gear and reforge into 200 plus spell doublecast. This takes away from the "scout" stats we should be trying to get.

Secondly, Casting Speed doesn't work for "Everything". As an assassin, most of my spells are already maxed at fastest casting time. most of our stuff is .5 seconds. So, how is loading up on Casting speed beneficial, other then Ascensions?

Saying that ascensions should not be considered in class balance is just like saying Auto Attack should not be considered in class balance. Its when you dont look at things as a whole that the balance gets all messed up in the first place.

10-13-2018, 04:47 AM

I see merit in this... not hard core overkill but a tick feeling similar-ish to warden tree.

Mermut · 10-13-2018, 04:54 AM

Vipersx said: ↑

“Ascensions have everything to do with Class balance. Ascensions happen to be be in just about every classes top 5 DPS on a parse. Therefore, if you want to be T1 DPS... you need to max your Ascensions. With Ascensions so important to DPS, scout classes are forced to select gear and reforge into 200 plus spell doublecast. This takes away from the "scout" stats we should be trying to get.

Secondly, Casting Speed doesn't work for "Everything". As an assassin, most of my spells are already maxed at fastest casting time. most of our stuff is .5 seconds. So, how is loading up on Casting speed beneficial, other then Ascensions?

Saying that ascensions should not be considered in class balance is just like saying Auto Attack should not be considered in class balance. Its when you dont look at things as a whole that the balance gets all messed up in the first place.”

100% casting speed is the max, for actual casting speed, that any class can use.

As far as ascensions go.. they have NOTHING to do with class balance. Everybody starts at exactly the same place with ascensions as everybody else.. reguardless of class. No changes to ascensions are needed to balance actual classes.

10-13-2018, 07:03 AM

Except for the fact that Spell Double Cast does not effect our abilities as it does for Casters... Therefore they get the double benefit from stacking casting speed to get Spell Double Cast. This creates a lopsided greater benefit for mages as they get to have all of there damage including ascensions double casting... scouts/ melee DPS do not.

I can also add that wand damage does not get interrupted from casting for mages... therefore, they continue to get benefit from there auto attack while scouts have their auto attack stopped while casting the super long Ascension spells.

Mermut · 10-13-2018, 07:33 AM

Again.. those are not ascension issues. Those are class/archtype issues.

Mercychalice · 10-13-2018, 07:34 AM

Since when do my scout teleport skills get interrupted by movement? That was one of the perks, being able to run and teleport to my target..../sigh....

10-09-2018, 03:45 AM	#2
Caith Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Beastlord Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 13%. Brigand Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 12%. Dirge Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 7%. Swashbuckler Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 4%. Troubador Increased the base damage of profession abilities by 4%.

10-09-2018, 11:18 PM	#3
Vipersx Member Posts: n/a	Caith i think you might have missed the assassin update I think a good 25 percent increase to base damage of profession abilities would be a good start for assassins. T1 DPS should not have ascension spells being in their top 5 parse damage. I do find it a little odd that Beastlords are getting biggest increase atm when they seem to do very well on parses to this day. Assassins on the other hand have been driven into near extinction and are on the endangered species list. Having returned to the game recently after a few years break, it was a tough pill to swallow to see how bad assassins had fallen out of grace with the EQ 2 Gods. I started an assassin on day one when EQ 2 came went live so many years ago, and i would never even think of betraying him just because Rangers have been dealt a better hand as of recently. It would be nice however to see assassins returned to their formal glory a respected member of the T1 DPS. Ascensions and massive potency increases in the game see to be some of the main reasons for their fall. It seems that potency will be brought down a bit with this new expansion which is good for melee classes. It seems there was a move away from auto attack DPS in the game for some reason. Yet when DPS moved away from auto attack damage, assassins and other melee dps classes were not given anything to fill in the massive hole left in our dps. I remember a few years back when auto attack dps would be 35 to 40 percent of assassins parse. To this day this is a hole that has yet to be filled. Ascensions do not really count since everyone has access to the same ones. Ascensions should never be part of class balance for that reason. My hope is that auto attack DPS makes a come back in this expansion so that stats like multi attack, flurry, and haste once again mean something. Crit bonus being raised is one good way to do that. Although I do have a issue with the fact of how crit bonus is currently handled. It has a cap and then we use crit bonus over cap to go over the cap. Yet there is no in-game way to see how much crit bonus over cap you have without adding it all up. Either add crit bonus overcap to our stats that we can access, or just get rid of crit bonus overcap and take the cap away from crit bonus. The game was most balanced when we used to balance crit bonus and potency to be at somewhat the same lvl. If auto attack continues to be a lost part of our DPS, then maybe our buffs need to be considered and add to that many melee classes whos buffs are less then desired atm.

10-11-2018, 08:28 AM	#12
Uncle Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	doit said: ↑ “Burning intensity AA went from 12.5% increase to base potency to just flat 1.3 fervor...probably fervor needs to be increased since its just a temp” I recommend making it 10~20% increase..

10-12-2018, 04:50 PM	#19
Altho Active Member Posts: n/a	Rougad said: ↑ “Beastlords are supposed to be dps and needs a lot more than 13% increase. As it is now, they are usually stuffed in struggling Groups to manafeed or heal instead of doing the job they are supposed to. Bards... omg, increase our Power regen to make it usefull in cases when there are no chanters around and increase burst damage to be able to put out some useful VC's even when the Ascensions are down. Assassins should be on par with ranger. Didnt play mine this xpac but as it looks on our raid parse they are Close but not quite there. Brigs and Swash - please atleast make the debuffs powerful again and swap the damage increase! Swash is so far behind brigand already, why make it even worse??” Swash is behind everyone, but a swap on damage increase is the last thing we need, what we need is our damage to be increased so that we can be more competitive on the parse. I've said it before, there should be no T2 classes anymore for scouts, since the summoners used to be T2 casters and look what happened with them. No one wants a lesser DPS, your utility (Bards/Enchanters should be for most debuffs). Swash needs the most love and I'm losing faith that it will ever see it.

10-12-2018, 05:20 PM	#20
Corran New Member Posts: n/a	Can I ask Dirge 7% and troub 4% the reason for that difference is what ? when both bards actually do the same numbers in dps (in the same gear) ? Some requests for a little bard loving please : please please please please please please removed the restrictions and allow us to use player crafted posions , there is no reason at all as a "scout" arch type we should not be allowed to use them... As mentioned please for the love of god make our regen actually worth using at some point in the game because for the last god knows how many years its not even on the hotbars. Please remove the timer from VC or match them up so the endlines lower the times on both VC AND RO.

10-09-2018, 03:28 AM	#1
Caith Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Please provide all Scout related feedback here. Please remember to be specific, including the name and tier of any relevant abilities, any relevant zone or target information.

10-10-2018, 12:52 PM	#4
doit New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Burning intensity AA went from 12.5% increase to base potency to just flat 1.3 fervor...probably fervor needs to be increased since its just a temp

10-10-2018, 05:43 PM	#5
Sadus New Member Posts: n/a	Ralissk's Perception (Beastlord) isn't working. It restores no Mana at all.

10-11-2018, 02:59 AM	#6
Morticor New Member Posts: n/a	Incredible.... can't believe Assassins are seeing no love again. Our main (supposedly) contribution to group and raids is our DPS and we cant even bring that to the table currently. I guess the glory days of being a true T1 DPS are gone. What a shame. Why even have this class in game any more?

10-11-2018, 03:52 AM	#7
Babyshark New Member Posts: n/a	as for rogues 12 % and 4% are nice but a few more tweaks could be make that could go a long way Im sure there will be more changes to come I would like to suggest though for brigands that Thieves guild give at least 5 abil double cast/ fervor ..or something along those lines rather than it being just 10 potency and for dance of metal to get a 20/+ % increase to make it some what relevant again.. a lot of people are debating wether its worth it or not .. i use it for the dmg increase per use ..but thats about it any other tweaks such as the AA in heroic tree that is supposed to reduce reuse speed of dance of metal as well would be nice to see ..even will full 10 points the reuse is 1 full minute

10-11-2018, 04:51 AM	#8
slica Active Member Posts: n/a	There are still a lot of class adjustments coming from what another post said

10-11-2018, 04:55 AM	#9
slica Active Member Posts: n/a	The % dmg increase is actually not going to be noticeable at all.. they did one of those this xpac iirc and yeah Noda..if auto attack isn’t coming back.. we need a huge boost. Rangers nah.. Assassins maybe.. I never got around to playing mine. Bards definately. As far as dom, ofc you should be using it..it does need a huge boost as well.. it used to be on par with an ffu hit... tg hopefully will get a rework along with some other stuff

10-11-2018, 05:20 AM	#10
Orcher New Member Posts: n/a	I would have to agree.. the % increase is hardly noticeable sins could use a bit of love for sure, mortal blade isnt what it used to be at all .. predators final trick is decent giving 72 pot.. but when we're up in the 50, 60k's still in next xpack.. i could see them giving a fervor boost of 10 or something like that fully buffed.. Dance IMO would need a bigger boost than 20% (again just my opinion) esp like slica said it did used to be on par with an FFU hit hopefully we see some good reworks for both sins and rogues.. they are well needed. BL having feral intensity giving 10 fervor is a little bit too little in my opinion as well .. you're taking 20 % base pot and turning it into 10 ferv.. needs a bit more of a kick up to about 20 i would think..

10-11-2018, 05:44 AM	#11
Tildaron/Yojiimbo New Member Posts: n/a	For the Assassin/predator in general; i would think fixing Perfectionist for starters would be great much like babyshark said with the DOM timer not working properly Perfectionist in the Predator tree does not actually reduce the reuse timers of (lets say assassinate) by 50% and only gives a 15% potency increase to the ability as opposed to actually increasing the damage of it by 15% It would be great to see a bit of rework on those AA's that dont quite work right Rouges , a dance buff would be very much appreciated Venom explosion even fully spec'd into hardly does any dps nor does shred like it used to poisoned blades isnt what it used to be either but it does decent. if neither of those on the left side get fixed i think it would be interesting seeing Blinding dust to have an extra hit that throws out a dot that ticks (for example like blades that goes off every 4s or shank every 3.3). making mercy or anger a perma buff i think would greatly benefit as well, even if its not a 65% xfer , i could see it being on par with a swash of 29% roughly

10-11-2018, 09:51 AM	#13
Tomshindo New Member Posts: n/a	I don't find the intention some scouts got a slight amount of auto attack multiplier that doesn't make changes to dps at all. Constant amount such as those stat goes old-fashion soon but as to this stat, It seems totally worthless, doesn' it?

10-11-2018, 12:13 PM	#14
Rougad New Member Posts: n/a	Beastlords are supposed to be dps and needs a lot more than 13% increase. As it is now, they are usually stuffed in struggling Groups to manafeed or heal instead of doing the job they are supposed to. Bards... omg, increase our Power regen to make it usefull in cases when there are no chanters around and increase burst damage to be able to put out some useful VC's even when the Ascensions are down. Assassins should be on par with ranger. Didnt play mine this xpac but as it looks on our raid parse they are Close but not quite there. Brigs and Swash - please atleast make the debuffs powerful again and swap the damage increase! Swash is so far behind brigand already, why make it even worse??

10-11-2018, 02:01 PM	#15
slica Active Member Posts: n/a	Mercy or anger is fine as is imo. It’s situationally a great ability to use...it’s not really needed in a raid setting but it does help in heroics with an under geared tank.

10-11-2018, 02:04 PM	#16
slica Active Member Posts: n/a	As far as actually reworking combat arts...that’s something that needs to wait... is auto attack going to be relevant again? Is it going to be 40-50% of our parse again? If so some things may need to be tuned down. I kno if I got a 40% dmg boost I would be beating mages as is.

10-11-2018, 04:26 PM	#17
Morx New Member Posts: n/a	Very much doubt they are gonna make autoattack relevant again. But as far as all scouts go I would like to see poisons to be slightly more relevant than it is now. Atm poisons are last on the parse. Would be nice to see it at least in the middle somewhere. For rogues I would like to see, as others said, an improvement to DoM but also maybe a bigger siphon of ABmod on Thieving Essence. For Brigand I would like to see an improvement to Thieves Guild. In the prestige tree I would like to see Gang Up changed to actually improve Deceit and Ruthless Cunning. As it is those 2 skills are a waste of time to use. Would also be nice to see Poisoned Blades and Venom Explosion improved. Would also be nice to have a function for all classes to put all your buffs in some sort of macro to cast them all in one button push. Would free alot of hotbar space.

10-11-2018, 10:01 PM	#18
Redlight New Member Posts: n/a	All class balancing should start with making class defining abilities/ AAs relevant to where the game is presently and its frustrating that hasn't happened a good example would be Thieves guild, if it gave 10 Fervor instead of a meaningless POT amount it would have been relevant in PoP. Increasing professional abilities by 12% once again is meaningless if those abilities do less DPS than a thorns potion! If auto attk damage is not revamped then you would need to put a zero on the end to make any significant difference. Poisons need a massive boost across all the different types as they are really part of the overall scout arsenal and being ignored for so long is kinda sad.

10-12-2018, 07:15 PM	#21
Vipersx Member Posts: n/a	Assassin / Scout re-balance suggestions : Ascensions : Scouts should have the casting speed of ascensions cut down to .5 seconds to 1 second. Scouts are supposed to be the quick attackers, one of the reasons I played a scout is because I did not like long casting spells. Ascensions double cast for scouts should be based off of ability double cast. Scouts are not casters and should not have to sacrifice "scout" stats for caster stats. Ability Double cast should be as readily available to scouts as Spell Double cast is for Mages. Overall Scout Stats: -Ability Double is a stat a lot of scouts are lacking that could help them climb up the DPS charts to compete with Mages which have all of the spells double casting because of the ease to amass spell double cast. - Auto Attack Stats as they currently stand are pretty much useless, yet this is what most of our buffs and gear give us. DPS Haste Multi Attack AE Auto attack Strikethrough Accuracy Flurry WDB - If auto attack makes a comeback great, but if it does not... we need to do something about these stats. - Haste conversion to Ability Double Attack. Currently haste converts to Flurry, so to stats that mean nothing atm convert to each other. Casters have spell haste convert to spell double attack... Therefore, scouts should have haste convert to Ability Double Attack. - As far as the other stats go... ATM i am not sure. You could have some of them cap and overcap go into either Fervor, Crit bonus over cap, Potency or Ability Mod. - Ability Mod should have 50 percent cap removed from scout abilities - Scout abilities damage is much lower then mages, there for many of their abilities fail to take full advantage of ability mod. Assassin Buffs: - Honed Reflexes - add ability Double cast - Exacting - remove the 1 minute restriction and have it apply to all abilities - Shared Poisons/ apply Poisons - Increase damage - Whirling Blades - replace static increase of slashing, piercing, ranged and crushing and replace it with 25 percent increase of base Offensive Skills. Also increase damage of the Damage Proc. - Deadly Focus - This buff currently gives auto attack buffs (accuracy 10percent, multi attack 108, and slashing, piercing, ranged and crushing 54). Change the slashing, piercing, ranged and crushing to 30 to 50 percent increase of base offensive skills. Other suggestions to make this buff worth casting.... Add an increase to ability and auto attack range to 30 meters. This would be a neat buff for jousting. Another suggestion would be to add either Ability mood or Proc damage to this buff. - Frontload - This one requires an increase to poison damage and procs as a whole - Villainy - If auto attack remains current stat, then maybe an increase from 1.26 base auto attack multiplier to 3 or 5 would help. Also, could add Ability Mod or Ability Double Cast. Maybe even an increase to Mythical Crit chance. - Predator Final Trick (AA) - It currently increases potency by 72 percent. Either add 20 Fervor to it or replace the potency with fervor. - Dragon Claws (AA) - This buff has changed on beta. It currently gives 13.5 fervor. It used to give 25 percent of base potency. It should then either give 25 percent increase to base fervor or a flat 25 fervor. Abilities: - Shadow Agent - currently it takes to long to cast. Reduce the casting time to either .5 or 1 second. Also the recast should come down to 2 minutes. - Mortal Blade - reduce the recast to 30 seconds so that it can be used in every Fatal Followup Chain.

10-12-2018, 11:43 PM	#22
Bladeless New Member Posts: n/a	Assassin First, I want to agree with some suggestions Vipersx mentioned. “- Shadow Agent - currently it takes to long to cast. Reduce the casting time to either .5 or 1 second. Also the recast should come down to 2 minutes. - Mortal Blade - reduce the recast to 30 seconds so that it can be used in every Fatal Followup Chain.” Shadow Agent cast time to .5 secs Let's make poison relevant again. I would even be fine with it doing dps based on stacks of Acid Blades or Carnage. Make regular AA Shadow, Until Cancelled Make Mortal Blade inflict damage twice like all other stealth attacks with AA, Dexterous Attacks Fix Carnage Wrought (group wide Carnage Prestige tree). It procs ~45k damage once or twice a minute. Remove restriction and boost dps for group based on number of stacks. Could even limit it to melee. Some buffs require recast on zoning such as Murderous Design and Apply/Shared Poison Give a small cb overcap buff, like 50 or 1% of total CB, that will last 30 secs. to group would be ideal to help us feel needed I would be ok if it was tied to our epic spell Shadow Agent Add a combat mitt debuff

10-13-2018, 12:03 AM	#23
Druantia Member Posts: n/a	Vipersx said: ↑ “Assassin / Scout re-balance suggestions : Ascensions : Scouts should have the casting speed of ascensions cut down to .5 seconds to 1 second. Scouts are supposed to be the quick attackers, one of the reasons I played a scout is because I did not like long casting spells. I can agree with this part of your post Viper. Maybe they also need to bring down RANGER cast / reuse times on all CA's to be more on par with assassins.”

10-13-2018, 01:03 AM	#24
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Vipersx said: ↑ “Assassin / Scout re-balance suggestions : Ascensions : Scouts should have the casting speed of ascensions cut down to .5 seconds to 1 second. Scouts are supposed to be the quick attackers, one of the reasons I played a scout is because I did not like long casting spells. Ascensions double cast for scouts should be based off of ability double cast. Scouts are not casters and should not have to sacrifice "scout" stats for caster stats. Ability Double cast should be as readily available to scouts as Spell Double cast is for Mages. ” 1) Ascensions have nothing to do with your base class 2) Spell double cast is MUCH easier to get the Ability Double cast. This change would hurt more then help.. even if it was possible to have the same ascension class work differently depending on the base class. Vipersx said: ↑ “- Haste conversion to Ability Double Attack. Currently haste converts to Flurry, so to stats that mean nothing atm convert to each other. Casters have spell haste convert to spell double attack... Therefore, scouts should have haste convert to Ability Double Attack.” Casting speed isn't 'spell haste'. It works for everything... spells, combat arts, taunts, heals.

10-13-2018, 04:40 AM	#25
Vipersx Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “1) Ascensions have nothing to do with your base class 2) Spell double cast is MUCH easier to get the Ability Double cast. This change would hurt more then help.. even if it was possible to have the same ascension class work differently depending on the base class. Casting speed isn't 'spell haste'. It works for everything... spells, combat arts, taunts, heals.” Ascensions have everything to do with Class balance. Ascensions happen to be be in just about every classes top 5 DPS on a parse. Therefore, if you want to be T1 DPS... you need to max your Ascensions. With Ascensions so important to DPS, scout classes are forced to select gear and reforge into 200 plus spell doublecast. This takes away from the "scout" stats we should be trying to get. Secondly, Casting Speed doesn't work for "Everything". As an assassin, most of my spells are already maxed at fastest casting time. most of our stuff is .5 seconds. So, how is loading up on Casting speed beneficial, other then Ascensions? Saying that ascensions should not be considered in class balance is just like saying Auto Attack should not be considered in class balance. Its when you dont look at things as a whole that the balance gets all messed up in the first place.

10-13-2018, 04:47 AM	#26
Taka Active Member Posts: n/a	“ As mentioned please for the love of god make our regen actually worth using at some point in the game because for the last god knows how many years its not even on the hotbars. ” I see merit in this... not hard core overkill but a tick feeling similar-ish to warden tree.

10-13-2018, 04:54 AM	#27
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Vipersx said: ↑ “Ascensions have everything to do with Class balance. Ascensions happen to be be in just about every classes top 5 DPS on a parse. Therefore, if you want to be T1 DPS... you need to max your Ascensions. With Ascensions so important to DPS, scout classes are forced to select gear and reforge into 200 plus spell doublecast. This takes away from the "scout" stats we should be trying to get. Secondly, Casting Speed doesn't work for "Everything". As an assassin, most of my spells are already maxed at fastest casting time. most of our stuff is .5 seconds. So, how is loading up on Casting speed beneficial, other then Ascensions? Saying that ascensions should not be considered in class balance is just like saying Auto Attack should not be considered in class balance. Its when you dont look at things as a whole that the balance gets all messed up in the first place.” 100% casting speed is the max, for actual casting speed, that any class can use. As far as ascensions go.. they have NOTHING to do with class balance. Everybody starts at exactly the same place with ascensions as everybody else.. reguardless of class. No changes to ascensions are needed to balance actual classes.

10-13-2018, 07:03 AM	#28
Vipersx Member Posts: n/a	Except for the fact that Spell Double Cast does not effect our abilities as it does for Casters... Therefore they get the double benefit from stacking casting speed to get Spell Double Cast. This creates a lopsided greater benefit for mages as they get to have all of there damage including ascensions double casting... scouts/ melee DPS do not. I can also add that wand damage does not get interrupted from casting for mages... therefore, they continue to get benefit from there auto attack while scouts have their auto attack stopped while casting the super long Ascension spells.

10-13-2018, 07:33 AM	#29
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Vipersx said: ↑ “Except for the fact that Spell Double Cast does not effect our abilities as it does for Casters... Therefore they get the double benefit from stacking casting speed to get Spell Double Cast. This creates a lopsided greater benefit for mages as they get to have all of there damage including ascensions double casting... scouts/ melee DPS do not. I can also add that wand damage does not get interrupted from casting for mages... therefore, they continue to get benefit from there auto attack while scouts have their auto attack stopped while casting the super long Ascension spells.” Again.. those are not ascension issues. Those are class/archtype issues.

10-13-2018, 07:34 AM	#30
Mercychalice Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Since when do my scout teleport skills get interrupted by movement? That was one of the perks, being able to run and teleport to my target..../sigh....