Scout - Feedback and Bugs - Page 6

Errrorr · 10-31-2015, 01:18 PM

What scares me about all the scout changes coming is the following;

Most raids only have spots for 3 Scout dps, and 4 bards.
We have 2 bard classes, and 5 scout dps classes.
As it stands, Assassins/Brigs are almost a necessity due to their debuffs. The 3rd spot will then be a toss up between Ranger/Swash. 5% HP debuff from Ranger + Ranged DPS, vs Swashies new debuffs/utility.
Beastlords in their current state are still unlikely to get a look in.
Every guild has 4-6 Bards for raids, almost double the Scout DPS role, when there is only 2 classes vs 5 for that role.

So effectively, we have 3 DPS classes (Swash/Ranger/BL) all competing for 1 raid spot, where as Assassins/Brigands can walk into a raid spot, as can bards.
Possible solutions I can see;

Work on the BL Spiritual stance, that they can substitute a bard just as effectively, as well being a decent T1 DPS. This would give far more reason to consider one on a guild roster.
Remove HP Debuffs. Doing this instantly makes Assassin/Ranger/Swash/Brig on a far more level playing field. Rangers would need some more utility of some sort though, and possibly assassins

10-31-2015, 05:42 PM

So early this morning we formed a group of good players and blew up some heroics. There are some obvious changes to the swashy. First thing you'll notice on the parse is Dagger Storm. It rightfully pushed Hemo down. I do think they increased swash dps by about 10%. It's not overdone by any means. It feels balanced and personally I think they were good changes. Here is a parse so you can see for yourself. I included my stats so you can guage your potential. I'm in AoE spec and this is a heroic ZONEWIDE parse. Zerker, Mystic, Warden, Necro, Swash, Swash.

[IMG]

Bloodguts · 10-31-2015, 05:59 PM

Errrorr said: ↑

“What scares me about all the scout changes coming is the following;

Most raids only have spots for 3 Scout dps, and 4 bards.
We have 2 bard classes, and 5 scout dps classes.
As it stands, Assassins/Brigs are almost a necessity due to their debuffs. The 3rd spot will then be a toss up between Ranger/Swash. 5% HP debuff from Ranger + Ranged DPS, vs Swashies new debuffs/utility.
Beastlords in their current state are still unlikely to get a look in.
Every guild has 4-6 Bards for raids, almost double the Scout DPS role, when there is only 2 classes vs 5 for that role.
So effectively, we have 3 DPS classes (Swash/Ranger/BL) all competing for 1 raid spot, where as Assassins/Brigands can walk into a raid spot, as can bards.

Possible solutions I can see;
Work on the BL Spiritual stance, that they can substitute a bard just as effectively, as well being a decent T1 DPS. This would give far more reason to consider one on a guild roster.
Remove HP Debuffs. Doing this instantly makes Assassin/Ranger/Swash/Brig on a far more level playing field. Rangers would need some more utility of some sort though, and possibly assassins
”

why would rangers be competing for that third spot? they have the best debuff out of those 3 classes, and if you don't have it, you're missing out on a quicker kill of a raid boss.

+5% max health decrease is a much better debuff than anything the swashie could bring right now. and if for some reason they add some max health debuffs to swashies that is different from the brigand's, then you will want to bring those over mages then.

10-31-2015, 06:05 PM

People that can actually dps will always find a raid spot. What annoys me are classes that can dps but get mowed over by bards. Every expansion most dps classes need to explore gear/dps options and find out what works best for them, I expect this expansion to be no different in that regard. Heck, that's most of the fun I have with new content, finding what works best for me on the characters I enjoy playing.

Marq · 10-31-2015, 06:06 PM

Would think it depends on your raids overall make up, like having other hp debuffers that ppl usually forget are there (like SK, mystic, Necro, templar). and hp debuffs do have a cap still afterall.

Overall tho, would make many things much more balanced to just remove hp debuffs. Its just forcing ppl into having certain classes and punishing ppl who dont maybe have optimal setups since the raids are built to ppl having them.

And to chime what some ppl already said, Daggerstorm seems to be broken for most scouts (rogues apparently have damage on it, others dont)

Rhapsodic1 · 10-31-2015, 06:10 PM

What dps class is getting mowed over by bards?

10-31-2015, 06:18 PM

Skipping the math; %hp debuffs are exponentially better when stacked. As Bloodguts suggested this change does nothing for swashbucklers in raid; rangers have more damage, at range, and more utility through %hp debuffs.

This is a double-edged sword. Scouts are strictly more demanding than mages (i.e. short ranged, positionals, stealth gimmicks, AA timing, consumables, etc.). %hp debuffs have functioned as the lifesupport which keep their EncDPS values "in the same ballpark" as mages which are drastically easier to build around.

Remove the debuffs, keep mages/scouts in the same tier, and you get raids full of mages. Especially so with the newfound demand for chain patterns in other places (i.e. shaman, maybe bards).

Marq · 10-31-2015, 06:24 PM

Yea it is a system so integrated now that it would prolly need its own dev team to pull out and rehash to something that resembles current situation.

But yeah agree that the changes alone dont give swash (or BL) much more chances of a raid spot unless there is a 4th scout slot. Do know some guild runs with it, and not all optimize setups. But for higher end raids, prolly not changing the priorities enough with these boosts.

Errrorr · 10-31-2015, 06:26 PM

That could easily change though. If you start having content with two mobs to burn, swashies get their HP debuff back.
If the benefit they are bringing dps wise is far better for the raid, even with a small drop in their own dos, they are on top.
Anything where a tank wants extra hate transfer (perhaps not apt if you have good tanks, but not ever raid does) swashies win again.
Offensive debuff a needed? 2x swipe needed? Swashies again.

I'd like to see some reason for assassins not to be guaranteed a raid spot though sadly. HP debuffs are basically the only reason.

10-31-2015, 06:35 PM

Well they more than doubled Marauders Vaunt and added like 3-4% increased elemental damage when Double Cross is on the mob(wizards rejoice!). That is a substantial increase in raidwide dps. We really won't know how substantial until we can raid with these changes. Maybe you guys raid testing can chime in on that? Before and after parses?

Errrorr · 10-31-2015, 06:41 PM

Flawed logic In the fact that who raided with a swashy before any changes?

10-31-2015, 06:42 PM

We do.

10-31-2015, 06:42 PM

I'd simply run a second assassin/brigand, sorry swashies.

Bloodguts · 10-31-2015, 06:49 PM

I completely agree. Max HP debuffs shouldn't exist.

But as long as they exist, they are the single most important thing you want to bring to any raid.

Daray · 10-31-2015, 07:03 PM

Vulnerability debuffs (if they affect all damage types) do serve a similar function to maxhp debuffs .

However, the way the vulnerability debuff assignments themselves have been done will be a disadvantage to swashes...

(1) The physical vulnerability component (on Shadow - assuming that's what it is) is almost a non-factor, because all physical dealing class-types will just change the damage type on their weapons to nox or arcane (which also changes the damage type of their non-specific melee-based CAs).

(2) The elemental vulnerability debuff component alone won't be enough to sell the class from a debuff-utility aspect because it is something that will only affect a small sub-set of the raid's output (your conjuror, wizard, ranger and fury basically - and even then only a portion of those classes' output is actually elemental).

Sure, you can use the vulnerability multiplier as a substitute for maxhp debuffs, but in the case of these swash changes the physical is close to irrelevant and the elemental is of a rather minor benefit to raid output. It would need to be vulnerability vs all damage to make this a valid consideration for raid builds.

10-31-2015, 08:33 PM

“ABILITIES
Troubador
Energizing Ballad - Will now grant the target a Flurry to Potency Conversion
Jester's Cap -Greatly Increase damage on Jester's Ruse
Arcane Symphony - Will grant Increased Arcane resist for the Troubador's group
Elemental Converto - Will grant Increased Elemental resist for the Troubador's group
Countersong - Will buff the caster's group with Potency and Ability Modifier
Demoralizing Processional - Will buff the caster's group with Final Ability Damage for spells
Zander's Choral Rebuff - Increases Arcane Damage done to the target encounter

Dirge
Confront Fear - Grants the target an Ability Reuse to Potency conversion
Clara's Chaotic Cacophony - Grants the caster's group Final Ability Damage for combat arts
Oration of Sacrifice - Grants a single trigger damage spell to the target
Noxious Symphony - Grants Increased Noxious resist for the Dirge's group
Battle Cry - Grants the target a Multi Attack to Potency conversion
Zander's Choral Rebuff - Increases Noxious Damage done to the target encounter

Items and Equipment
Corrected stats on Handcrafted and Mastercrafted gear
Adornment sets should now properly apply with new adornments.
Better Part of Valor now increases health by 10%, instead of 10hp.
The guild buff banner will now set it's name to the guild's name.
Collection pieces may now be added to depots.
Piercing weapons can no longer be used by druids.
Caith, Thursday at 10:44 PM Report
#1 Last edited by Caith, Thursday at 11:44 PM Like
ZUES and Ironfiste like this.

CaithDeveloper

New
ABILITIES
Swashbuckler
Pirate's Fancy - Increased the damage granted to area effect abilities
Thieving essence - Deals Increased damage and grants more ability modifier to the group.
Shadow - Increases Physical Damage done to the target encounter
Dagger Storm - Will deal more damage
Marauder's Vaunt - Increased Final Ability Damage granted to group members.
Double Cross - Increases Elemental Damage done to the target encounter
”

So, I play a ranger, & I have Dagger storm. It used to do damage, now it does nothing. Did you break it intentionally? I get it that you wanted to increase its damage for some of the classes, but did you remove the damage from other classes now? They get the boost, we take the hit?

10-31-2015, 09:11 PM

Hemo was nerfed on sins.

Errrorr · 10-31-2015, 10:07 PM

Threat transfer is fair enough, but why should the two classes with Threat transfers not compete for that spot? If swashy DPS is bumped enough upwards, the main benefit to an assassin over a swashy is pure and simple HP Debuffs.

The class I still fear most for is Beastlord though, I mean is there really any chance of a guild considering one again this expac?

10-31-2015, 11:05 PM

Nope;

less damage,

less utility, and

less reliable.

I feel really bad for everyone who was serious about beastlords making a comeback.Even if beastlord EncDPS was comparable to other scout's they still won't get a chance due to their shortcoming in utility/reliability.

Beastlords could gain a stacking 2% hp debuff /per primal and they still might be bad compared to assassins if scripts/threatgen don't let them play the game, and that assumes their damage is comparable post-ethereals which I severely doubt.

Neiloch · 11-01-2015, 12:09 AM

The whole vulnerability thing is kind of a mess. Ever since we've been able to change damage type the idea of 'physical vulnerability' has been a joke. There's currently zero incentive for melee classes to stay 'physical' and something like a mob being immune to magic would just annoy the players greatly. I know auto is supposed to fall to the wayside but it changes the damage type of a lot of CA's as well.

Bloodguts · 11-01-2015, 08:36 AM

Single threat transfer which is almost necessary for any raid considering how unbalanced threat vs dps between fighters and other dps classes.

Plus, assassins have some amazing single target damage, let alone their AoE dps. Mostly this comes form Hemotoxin alone, but they definitely get the upper hand because of poisons and their other abilities that no other class gets. It'll be hard to take assassins off a permanent raid spot, while other classes can't even compete.

11-02-2015, 02:52 AM

You guys are gonna love the new and improved Dagger Storm. It's pretty awesome. Can anyone say 70k ability mod?

Oh and the Swashy relic cloak has a debuff that increases all damage to target. Flurry of Blades has a 30s duration and a 16 sex recast. In other words, it's in 100% of the time.

[IMG]

11-02-2015, 03:32 AM

Raid guilds need to start their swashy hunt now while descent swashies are still available. Get em' while you can, or get stuck with a scrub like me.

11-02-2015, 03:47 AM

If the 4% elemental damage was a %hp debuff, maybe. However it isn't, so swashies are still super-terrible compared to rangers.

11-02-2015, 03:54 AM

I disagree. Swashies just became the ToT requirement. It's an AOE expansion, every zone. They don't have to wait on increments and parse neck and neck with the lock and wiz on AoE fights. They are now #1 on the zonewide. On top of that they are increasing the entire raid forces dps by at least 5% and elemental classes by 10%. All of their buffs stack with other swashies. They gave us exactly what we asked for. You may not agree right now but the numbers won't lie, and you'll see 2 swashies in every raid force in ToT. Mark my words.

Neiloch · 11-02-2015, 04:15 AM

Compared to who?

11-02-2015, 04:23 AM

Everyone. An equally geared swashy is now the #1 dps class in the game on 3+ target fights. Not to mention what they're going to do for VC's... hint hint nudge nudge.

Here is just one example of their new found glory.

[IMG]

Bloodguts · 11-02-2015, 05:08 AM

I like your enthusiasm, but that doesn't mean anything when you're talking about numbers.

First of all, there aren't any more AoE fights that other expansions haven't had.
Second of all, Swashies will only be useful if you have wizards/conjurors in your raid, if you don't use those classes in your raid force, then you don't really need to bring one.
Third, they still don't have a considerable max hp debuff. When talking about numbers alone, Max HP debuffs trump everything else.

What these changes have done is make swashies more viable to bring to a raid, but them topping over other classes, I don't think that will happen. This is just all a balancing act to make them closer to the DPS other t1 classes do, but sadly they don't have a Max HP debuff that's worth a damn in a raid and that's what's required to have for any competent raid force.

Karsa · 11-02-2015, 12:51 PM

There is like 2 weeks left little early to throw in towel. The increased CA damage has been a great start the class needs a de- hate mechanic like cat-like reflexes or cough cough a hate transfer and hopefully there are some other changes on the table that are coming.

Can anyone link beast lord class cloak

11-02-2015, 01:47 PM

Yeah I'll wait right till the bitter end before throwing in the towel Smile

10-31-2015, 01:18 PM	#151
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	What scares me about all the scout changes coming is the following; Most raids only have spots for 3 Scout dps, and 4 bards. We have 2 bard classes, and 5 scout dps classes. As it stands, Assassins/Brigs are almost a necessity due to their debuffs. The 3rd spot will then be a toss up between Ranger/Swash. 5% HP debuff from Ranger + Ranged DPS, vs Swashies new debuffs/utility. Beastlords in their current state are still unlikely to get a look in. Every guild has 4-6 Bards for raids, almost double the Scout DPS role, when there is only 2 classes vs 5 for that role. So effectively, we have 3 DPS classes (Swash/Ranger/BL) all competing for 1 raid spot, where as Assassins/Brigands can walk into a raid spot, as can bards. Possible solutions I can see; Work on the BL Spiritual stance, that they can substitute a bard just as effectively, as well being a decent T1 DPS. This would give far more reason to consider one on a guild roster. Remove HP Debuffs. Doing this instantly makes Assassin/Ranger/Swash/Brig on a far more level playing field. Rangers would need some more utility of some sort though, and possibly assassins

10-31-2015, 05:59 PM	#153
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Errrorr said: ↑ “What scares me about all the scout changes coming is the following; Most raids only have spots for 3 Scout dps, and 4 bards. We have 2 bard classes, and 5 scout dps classes. As it stands, Assassins/Brigs are almost a necessity due to their debuffs. The 3rd spot will then be a toss up between Ranger/Swash. 5% HP debuff from Ranger + Ranged DPS, vs Swashies new debuffs/utility. Beastlords in their current state are still unlikely to get a look in. Every guild has 4-6 Bards for raids, almost double the Scout DPS role, when there is only 2 classes vs 5 for that role. So effectively, we have 3 DPS classes (Swash/Ranger/BL) all competing for 1 raid spot, where as Assassins/Brigands can walk into a raid spot, as can bards. Possible solutions I can see; Work on the BL Spiritual stance, that they can substitute a bard just as effectively, as well being a decent T1 DPS. This would give far more reason to consider one on a guild roster. Remove HP Debuffs. Doing this instantly makes Assassin/Ranger/Swash/Brig on a far more level playing field. Rangers would need some more utility of some sort though, and possibly assassins ” why would rangers be competing for that third spot? they have the best debuff out of those 3 classes, and if you don't have it, you're missing out on a quicker kill of a raid boss. +5% max health decrease is a much better debuff than anything the swashie could bring right now. and if for some reason they add some max health debuffs to swashies that is different from the brigand's, then you will want to bring those over mages then.

10-31-2015, 06:06 PM	#155
Marq New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bloodguts said: ↑ “why would rangers be competing for that third spot? they have the best debuff out of those 3 classes, and if you don't have it, you're missing out on a quicker kill of a raid boss.” Would think it depends on your raids overall make up, like having other hp debuffers that ppl usually forget are there (like SK, mystic, Necro, templar). and hp debuffs do have a cap still afterall. Overall tho, would make many things much more balanced to just remove hp debuffs. Its just forcing ppl into having certain classes and punishing ppl who dont maybe have optimal setups since the raids are built to ppl having them. And to chime what some ppl already said, Daggerstorm seems to be broken for most scouts (rogues apparently have damage on it, others dont)

10-31-2015, 06:10 PM	#156
Rhapsodic1 Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Carni said: ↑ “People that can actually dps will always find a raid spot. What annoys me are classes that can dps but get mowed over by bards. Every expansion most dps classes need to explore gear/dps options and find out what works best for them, I expect this expansion to be no different in that regard. Heck, that's most of the fun I have with new content, finding what works best for me on the characters I enjoy playing.” What dps class is getting mowed over by bards?

10-31-2015, 06:18 PM	#157
Koko Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Marq said: ↑ “Would think it depends on your raids overall make up, like having other hp debuffers that ppl usually forget are there” Bloodguts said: ↑ “why would rangers be competing for that third spot? ... +5% max health decrease is a much better debuff than anything the swashie could bring right now.” Skipping the math; %hp debuffs are exponentially better when stacked. As Bloodguts suggested this change does nothing for swashbucklers in raid; rangers have more damage, at range, and more utility through %hp debuffs. “Overall tho, would make many things much more balanced to just remove hp debuffs.” This is a double-edged sword. Scouts are strictly more demanding than mages (i.e. short ranged, positionals, stealth gimmicks, AA timing, consumables, etc.). %hp debuffs have functioned as the lifesupport which keep their EncDPS values "in the same ballpark" as mages which are drastically easier to build around. Remove the debuffs, keep mages/scouts in the same tier, and you get raids full of mages. Especially so with the newfound demand for chain patterns in other places (i.e. shaman, maybe bards).

10-31-2015, 05:42 PM	#152
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	So early this morning we formed a group of good players and blew up some heroics. There are some obvious changes to the swashy. First thing you'll notice on the parse is Dagger Storm. It rightfully pushed Hemo down. I do think they increased swash dps by about 10%. It's not overdone by any means. It feels balanced and personally I think they were good changes. Here is a parse so you can see for yourself. I included my stats so you can guage your potential. I'm in AoE spec and this is a heroic ZONEWIDE parse. Zerker, Mystic, Warden, Necro, Swash, Swash.

10-31-2015, 06:05 PM	#154
Carni Active Member Posts: n/a	People that can actually dps will always find a raid spot. What annoys me are classes that can dps but get mowed over by bards. Every expansion most dps classes need to explore gear/dps options and find out what works best for them, I expect this expansion to be no different in that regard. Heck, that's most of the fun I have with new content, finding what works best for me on the characters I enjoy playing.

10-31-2015, 06:24 PM	#158
Marq New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Yea it is a system so integrated now that it would prolly need its own dev team to pull out and rehash to something that resembles current situation. But yeah agree that the changes alone dont give swash (or BL) much more chances of a raid spot unless there is a 4th scout slot. Do know some guild runs with it, and not all optimize setups. But for higher end raids, prolly not changing the priorities enough with these boosts.

10-31-2015, 06:26 PM	#159
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bloodguts said: ↑ “why would rangers be competing for that third spot? they have the best debuff out of those 3 classes, and if you don't have it, you're missing out on a quicker kill of a raid boss. +5% max health decrease is a much better debuff than anything the swashie could bring right now. and if for some reason they add some max health debuffs to swashies that is different from the brigand's, then you will want to bring those over mages then.” That could easily change though. If you start having content with two mobs to burn, swashies get their HP debuff back. If the benefit they are bringing dps wise is far better for the raid, even with a small drop in their own dos, they are on top. Anything where a tank wants extra hate transfer (perhaps not apt if you have good tanks, but not ever raid does) swashies win again. Offensive debuff a needed? 2x swipe needed? Swashies again. I'd like to see some reason for assassins not to be guaranteed a raid spot though sadly. HP debuffs are basically the only reason.

10-31-2015, 06:35 PM	#160
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Well they more than doubled Marauders Vaunt and added like 3-4% increased elemental damage when Double Cross is on the mob(wizards rejoice!). That is a substantial increase in raidwide dps. We really won't know how substantial until we can raid with these changes. Maybe you guys raid testing can chime in on that? Before and after parses?

10-31-2015, 06:41 PM	#161
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	ZUES said: ↑ “Well they more than doubled Marauders Vaunt and added like 3-4% increased elemental damage when Double Cross is on the mob. That is a substantial increase in raidwide dps. We really won't know how substantial until we can raid with these changes. Maybe you guys raid testing can chime in on that? Before and after parses?” Flawed logic In the fact that who raided with a swashy before any changes?

10-31-2015, 06:42 PM	#162
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	We do.

10-31-2015, 06:42 PM	#163
Koko Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Errrorr said: ↑ “If you start having content with two mobs to burn, swashies get their HP debuff back. ...Anything where a tank wants extra hate transfer ... Offensive debuff a needed? 2x swipe needed?” I'd simply run a second assassin/brigand, sorry swashies.

10-31-2015, 06:49 PM	#164
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Marq said: ↑ “Would think it depends on your raids overall make up, like having other hp debuffers that ppl usually forget are there (like SK, mystic, Necro, templar). and hp debuffs do have a cap still afterall. Overall tho, would make many things much more balanced to just remove hp debuffs. Its just forcing ppl into having certain classes and punishing ppl who dont maybe have optimal setups since the raids are built to ppl having them. And to chime what some ppl already said, Daggerstorm seems to be broken for most scouts (rogues apparently have damage on it, others dont)” I completely agree. Max HP debuffs shouldn't exist. But as long as they exist, they are the single most important thing you want to bring to any raid.

10-31-2015, 07:03 PM	#165
Daray Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	ZUES said: ↑ “Well they ... added like 3-4% increased elemental damage when Double Cross is on the mob(wizards rejoice!). That is a substantial increase in raidwide dps.” Vulnerability debuffs (if they affect all damage types) do serve a similar function to maxhp debuffs . However, the way the vulnerability debuff assignments themselves have been done will be a disadvantage to swashes... (1) The physical vulnerability component (on Shadow - assuming that's what it is) is almost a non-factor, because all physical dealing class-types will just change the damage type on their weapons to nox or arcane (which also changes the damage type of their non-specific melee-based CAs). (2) The elemental vulnerability debuff component alone won't be enough to sell the class from a debuff-utility aspect because it is something that will only affect a small sub-set of the raid's output (your conjuror, wizard, ranger and fury basically - and even then only a portion of those classes' output is actually elemental). Sure, you can use the vulnerability multiplier as a substitute for maxhp debuffs, but in the case of these swash changes the physical is close to irrelevant and the elemental is of a rather minor benefit to raid output. It would need to be vulnerability vs all damage to make this a valid consideration for raid builds.

10-31-2015, 08:33 PM	#166
Tipperton Member Posts: n/a	“ABILITIES Troubador Energizing Ballad - Will now grant the target a Flurry to Potency Conversion Jester's Cap -Greatly Increase damage on Jester's Ruse Arcane Symphony - Will grant Increased Arcane resist for the Troubador's group Elemental Converto - Will grant Increased Elemental resist for the Troubador's group Countersong - Will buff the caster's group with Potency and Ability Modifier Demoralizing Processional - Will buff the caster's group with Final Ability Damage for spells Zander's Choral Rebuff - Increases Arcane Damage done to the target encounter Dirge Confront Fear - Grants the target an Ability Reuse to Potency conversion Clara's Chaotic Cacophony - Grants the caster's group Final Ability Damage for combat arts Oration of Sacrifice - Grants a single trigger damage spell to the target Noxious Symphony - Grants Increased Noxious resist for the Dirge's group Battle Cry - Grants the target a Multi Attack to Potency conversion Zander's Choral Rebuff - Increases Noxious Damage done to the target encounter Items and Equipment Corrected stats on Handcrafted and Mastercrafted gear Adornment sets should now properly apply with new adornments. Better Part of Valor now increases health by 10%, instead of 10hp. The guild buff banner will now set it's name to the guild's name. Collection pieces may now be added to depots. Piercing weapons can no longer be used by druids. Caith, Thursday at 10:44 PM Report #1 Last edited by Caith, Thursday at 11:44 PM Like ZUES and Ironfiste like this. CaithDeveloper New ABILITIES Swashbuckler Pirate's Fancy - Increased the damage granted to area effect abilities Thieving essence - Deals Increased damage and grants more ability modifier to the group. Shadow - Increases Physical Damage done to the target encounter Dagger Storm - Will deal more damage Marauder's Vaunt - Increased Final Ability Damage granted to group members. Double Cross - Increases Elemental Damage done to the target encounter ” So, I play a ranger, & I have Dagger storm. It used to do damage, now it does nothing. Did you break it intentionally? I get it that you wanted to increase its damage for some of the classes, but did you remove the damage from other classes now? They get the boost, we take the hit?

10-31-2015, 09:11 PM	#167
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Bloodguts said: ↑ “Single threat transfer which is almost necessary for any raid considering how unbalanced threat vs dps between fighters and other dps classes. Plus, assassins have some amazing single target damage, let alone their AoE dps. Mostly this comes form Hemotoxin alone, but they definitely get the upper hand because of poisons and their other abilities that no other class gets. It'll be hard to take assassins off a permanent raid spot, while other classes can't even compete.” Hemo was nerfed on sins.

10-31-2015, 10:07 PM	#168
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bloodguts said: ↑ “Single threat transfer which is almost necessary for any raid considering how unbalanced threat vs dps between fighters and other dps classes. Plus, assassins have some amazing single target damage, let alone their AoE dps. Mostly this comes form Hemotoxin alone, but they definitely get the upper hand because of poisons and their other abilities that no other class gets. It'll be hard to take assassins off a permanent raid spot, while other classes can't even compete.” Threat transfer is fair enough, but why should the two classes with Threat transfers not compete for that spot? If swashy DPS is bumped enough upwards, the main benefit to an assassin over a swashy is pure and simple HP Debuffs. The class I still fear most for is Beastlord though, I mean is there really any chance of a guild considering one again this expac?

10-31-2015, 11:05 PM	#169
Koko Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Errrorr said: ↑ “The class I still fear most for is Beastlord though, I mean is there really any chance of a guild considering one again this expac?” Nope; less damage, less utility, and less reliable. I feel really bad for everyone who was serious about beastlords making a comeback.Even if beastlord EncDPS was comparable to other scout's they *still* won't get a chance due to their shortcoming in utility/reliability. Beastlords could gain a stacking 2% hp debuff /per primal and they still might be bad compared to assassins if scripts/threatgen don't let them play the game, and that assumes their damage is comparable post-ethereals which I severely doubt.

11-01-2015, 12:09 AM	#170
Neiloch Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	The whole vulnerability thing is kind of a mess. Ever since we've been able to change damage type the idea of 'physical vulnerability' has been a joke. There's currently zero incentive for melee classes to stay 'physical' and something like a mob being immune to magic would just annoy the players greatly. I know auto is supposed to fall to the wayside but it changes the damage type of a lot of CA's as well.

11-01-2015, 08:36 AM	#171
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Errrorr said: ↑ “That could easily change though. If you start having content with two mobs to burn, swashies get their HP debuff back. If the benefit they are bringing dps wise is far better for the raid, even with a small drop in their own dos, they are on top. Anything where a tank wants extra hate transfer (perhaps not apt if you have good tanks, but not ever raid does) swashies win again. Offensive debuff a needed? 2x swipe needed? Swashies again. I'd like to see some reason for assassins not to be guaranteed a raid spot though sadly. HP debuffs are basically the only reason.” Single threat transfer which is almost necessary for any raid considering how unbalanced threat vs dps between fighters and other dps classes. Plus, assassins have some amazing single target damage, let alone their AoE dps. Mostly this comes form Hemotoxin alone, but they definitely get the upper hand because of poisons and their other abilities that no other class gets. It'll be hard to take assassins off a permanent raid spot, while other classes can't even compete.

11-02-2015, 02:52 AM	#172
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	You guys are gonna love the new and improved Dagger Storm. It's pretty awesome. Can anyone say 70k ability mod? Oh and the Swashy relic cloak has a debuff that increases all damage to target. Flurry of Blades has a 30s duration and a 16 sex recast. In other words, it's in 100% of the time.

11-02-2015, 03:32 AM	#173
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Raid guilds need to start their swashy hunt now while descent swashies are still available. Get em' while you can, or get stuck with a scrub like me.

11-02-2015, 03:47 AM	#174
Koko Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	ZUES said: ↑ “Raid guilds need to start their swashy hunt now while descent swashies are still available. Get em' while you can, or get stuck with a scrub like me.” If the 4% elemental damage was a %hp debuff, maybe. However it isn't, so swashies are still super-terrible compared to rangers.

11-02-2015, 03:54 AM	#175
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	I disagree. Swashies just became the ToT requirement. It's an AOE expansion, every zone. They don't have to wait on increments and parse neck and neck with the lock and wiz on AoE fights. They are now #1 on the zonewide. On top of that they are increasing the entire raid forces dps by at least 5% and elemental classes by 10%. All of their buffs stack with other swashies. They gave us exactly what we asked for. You may not agree right now but the numbers won't lie, and you'll see 2 swashies in every raid force in ToT. Mark my words.

11-02-2015, 04:15 AM	#176
Neiloch Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	ZUES said: ↑ “I disagree. Swashies just became the ToT requirement. It's an AOE expansion, every zone. They don't have to wait on increments and parse neck and neck with the lock and wiz on AoE fights. They are now #1 on the zonewide.” Compared to who?

11-02-2015, 04:23 AM	#177
ZUES Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Neiloch said: ↑ “Compared to who?” Everyone. An equally geared swashy is now the #1 dps class in the game on 3+ target fights. Not to mention what they're going to do for VC's... hint hint nudge nudge. Here is just one example of their new found glory.

11-02-2015, 05:08 AM	#178
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	ZUES said: ↑ “I disagree. Swashies just became the ToT requirement. It's an AOE expansion, every zone. They don't have to wait on increments and parse neck and neck with the lock and wiz on AoE fights. They are now #1 on the zonewide. On top of that they are increasing the entire raid forces dps by at least 5% and elemental classes by 10%. All of their buffs stack with other swashies. They gave us exactly what we asked for. You may not agree right now but the numbers won't lie, and you'll see 2 swashies in every raid force in ToT. Mark my words.” I like your enthusiasm, but that doesn't mean anything when you're talking about numbers. First of all, there aren't any more AoE fights that other expansions haven't had. Second of all, Swashies will only be useful if you have wizards/conjurors in your raid, if you don't use those classes in your raid force, then you don't really need to bring one. Third, they still don't have a considerable max hp debuff. When talking about numbers alone, Max HP debuffs trump everything else. What these changes have done is make swashies more viable to bring to a raid, but them topping over other classes, I don't think that will happen. This is just all a balancing act to make them closer to the DPS other t1 classes do, but sadly they don't have a Max HP debuff that's worth a damn in a raid and that's what's required to have for any competent raid force.

11-02-2015, 12:51 PM	#179
Karsa Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Koko said: ↑ “Nope; less damage, less utility, and less reliable. I feel really bad for everyone who was serious about beastlords making a comeback.Even if beastlord EncDPS was comparable to other scout's they *still* won't get a chance due to their shortcoming in utility/reliability. Beastlords could gain a stacking 2% hp debuff /per primal and they still might be bad compared to assassins if scripts/threatgen don't let them play the game, and that assumes their damage is comparable post-ethereals which I severely doubt.” There is like 2 weeks left little early to throw in towel. The increased CA damage has been a great start the class needs a de- hate mechanic like cat-like reflexes or cough cough a hate transfer and hopefully there are some other changes on the table that are coming. Can anyone link beast lord class cloak

11-02-2015, 01:47 PM	#180
Awesomeo Member Posts: n/a	Yeah I'll wait right till the bitter end before throwing in the towel