Fury Prestige

[Canth]

First of all, the beginning point is Master of the Hunt, which I will need to now cast and use a concentration slot, forcing me to pick which of the 3 DPS mages in my group gets Lucidity (sorry, guys). Can that be changed to Armor of Nature instead? Or, better yet, make Lucidity a group buff? I'm sure my illy would appreciate that.

Second, and yes, I know there's a thread on this elsewhere, it doesn't apply to me? Really? I guess I don't need physically mitigation like the rest of my group. Can we get that changed as well? Furies solo heal, which means I won't have another healer's buff covering me, but even then having it not apply to the healer themselves seems just a bit counter intuitive.

[Buffrat]

I imagine part of the mechanic is to discourage solo healers, but idk. I also don't mind a mage losing 200 int, not the end of the world. I rarely cancelled Hunt anyway.

I am a tiny bit amused that we got another way to heal our group without actually casting "heals".

[Anastaise]

Canth said: ↑

“Second, and yes, I know there's a thread on this elsewhere, it doesn't apply to me? Really? I guess I don't need physically mitigation like the rest of my group. Can we get that changed as well? Furies solo heal, which means I won't have another healer's buff covering me, but even then having it not apply to the healer themselves seems just a bit counter intuitive.”

Yeah - groups with 2 healers will each get 3800 physical mit and the solo healing fury will be the only person in raid without the physical mitigation (well and whoever is solo healing the 2nd dps group). This seems a rather unfair penalty to solo healers.

As for the Fury endline prestige "Rage of the Wild" - I was a bit disappointed. I was really hoping for a group death save or a significant group damage reduction temp. A direct heal is ok I guess, but a ward or multiple trigger reactive would be better. For a direct group heal/ST nuke, the reuse seems quite long.

[Hammdaddy]

First of all:
The prestige tree is not intended to be a massive increase to player power, but it should be noticeable.

And after that note: I think not having master of the hunt was dumb anyway cause i don't care about anyone having lucidity except sorcs cause sanguine and even then its such a little difference i don't think it needs to be changed. Also the endline is pretty nice, we now have a emergency heal basically which is quick casting and does decent damage; its exactly what i asked for. More dps, less heals.

[Caminus]

I'm ok with Master of the Hunt getting a little upgrade. I always have it on anyway, and the little bit of extra resists will be nice for some zones.

Honestly, I feel like the endline is a little underwhelming. It's an ok nuke (would love it to be an AOE but that might be a bit too much), and I just don't really care about another direct heal. I think I'd rather it be a ward or reactive. I mean, I'd use it as it is, but.... meh.

[Buco]

Furies are a little short on stone skins. Wouldn't this be an option?

[Caminus]

Buco said: ↑

“Furies are a little short on stone skins. Wouldn't this be an option?”

Well we share the ability with Wardens (and maybe Channelers? Not sure about them). Personally I'd just rather it be a heal, just a ward or reactive rather than a direct heal. But yeah, we have no stoneskins at all.

[Hammdaddy]

This class is too bananas overpowered at the moment, giving us another ward/stoneskin when we already have protective instinct/spirit of druidism would break class balance even more.

[Caminus]

Hammdaddy said: ↑

“This class is too bananas overpowered at the moment, giving us another ward/stoneskin when we already have protective instinct/spirit of druidism would break class balance even more.”

Well when you compare us to what wardens get for saving the group, we're a little lacking. Wardens get Howling with the Pact too. They get stoneskins, group death prevents, every direct heal has a regen component. The one death prevent that Furies get is literally useless... it's single target, can only be cast in-group so can't cast on someone in another group in raid, and its heal amounts are so miniscule the a single attack of any mob from the last few expansions is enough to blow through the death prevent completely. Then again, this endline is shared among druids, so wardens would just get yet another group save.

Protective instinct is good. Though not sure how useful it'll be in AoM yet, don't know what mechanics they're going to push to make sure we keep spamming heal buttons this time. I wish Spirit of Druidism healed for a little bit more, and the same for Stormcaller's Renewal. Not a lot, just a little. With what sounds like substantial increases to our HP pools we'll be getting with AoM gear, I wonder how much Spirit of Druidism and Stormcaller's Renewal will even do for us.

For the new endline, yeah I'm ok with it being a direct heal. I want it to be a reactive partially because that's the one type of heal we don't have yet honestly so it'd just be kinda cool. A reactive/ward would make it a useful ability for when PI is down. Stoneskins, honestly, I just don't care about for Furies. As it is, it'll only be good for popping the group to full, but won't be of any help if there's say, a heavy damage over time detriment on the group and PI is either down or it already blew through it. That's not much benefit beyond our group direct heal, regen and hibernation we already have and can rotate efficiently, in that type of situation.

I also think some of the disappointment comes from seeing before beta even began some of the interesting, novel AA abilities a few other classes would be getting. It got us imagining what interesting new things we'd get to play with and then we see we got.... a nuke that heals. So it was a bit of a letdown.

As I said earlier though I'd be willing to leave the healing aspect as is, if it were an AOE instead of single target. Over all, the ability is just unimpressive to me for an endline ability. I know they're not supposed to be amazing, but it just seems really lackluster. I'd like to see either the damage or the heal tweaked. Or if neither of those can be done, then at minimum, reduce the reuse of it.

[Kalika]

Caminus said: ↑

“Well when you compare us to what wardens get for saving the group, we're a little lacking. Wardens get Howling with the Pact too. They get stoneskins, group death prevents, every direct heal has a regen component. Th to blow through the death prevent completely. Then again, this endline is shared among druids, so wardens would just get yet another group save. The one death prevent that Furies get is literally useless... it's single target,”

When comparing you should be fair :

- Fury can keep hibernate running almost 100% of the time, this somewhat close to permanent death save while i agree that it does not prevent one-shoot.

- Porcupine is a massive mitigation increase and it affect all the resist too.

- Fury left prestige end talent heal 100% of incoming damage for 10 second (probably most fury don't have it since they are not supposed to be in a tank group but if spec that way they can easily take a spot there). Recast is rather short, much shorter than cyclone,

- Back in the fray is also a rather decent way to throw a big but fast heal.

- The fury group buf (center prestige) is also likely to help in a tank group.

Globally furies and warden are quite close, both can be used as solo healers or even in tank group with a cleric or a shaman.
Currently you can probably raid with 4 furies or 4 warden + 2 other healers even if it is not optimal it would probably work.

For both another heal or group heal is not really awesome but better than nothing.

[Anastaise]

Hibernate is a nice heal - but it is not a death save nor has it ever been a death save.
Porcupine is nice for a mitigation bump - but it drops as soon as all the damage triggers are used, so it is usually short lived.
Left side prestige would only ever be used in extremely rare circumstances as all of the group utility is right side.
We are somewhat close in healing output, but you cannot deny that wardens have the most death saves of any healer in the game including a group save. Furies have zero ability to save their group from lethal damage.

[Canth]

+1 to Ana's post.

Illies get a spell that will duplicate the spell their target casts and we get...............this. It's almost as big a disappointment as the first time I saw the fury POW cloak. I'll do some testing in raid situations to see it but I can't imagine it'll be anything but meh. I'd like just one tool that will give me the ability to save my group when someone is a total ******, because giving me more dps doesn't help raid dps if Daray, Koncept, etc are dead.

[Caminus]

Canth said: ↑

“Illies get a spell that will duplicate the spell their target casts and we get...............this. It's almost as big a disappointment as the first time I saw the fury POW cloak.”

That's pretty much my take on it. When I heard about some classes getting that ability to make a copy of someone to mimic their damage, I immediately started thinking about the potential it might have if timed properly, how it might work with other classes abilities, etc. When I saw the endline for us... I my initial thought was "well, it's an ok nuke and an ok heal, I guess I'll work it into my rotation when I remember it."

I'll never balk at more dps. But if they want to give us something that does damage, there are definitely better options than just another nuke with a long recast. If they want to give us something with utility, like a heal, there are more useful options than a group direct heal. I know it's can be a fine line between an ability that is both novel and useful, and one that's overpowered, but we got something that seems neither novel nor particularly useful. Not saying I won't use the ability, but I don't feel like this is the sort of ability I need to have.

[Hammdaddy]

Between autumn's kiss extra tick/hibernation and the group DR, this classes group heals DESTROY WARDENS. The group death save every time i solo healed on a warden was to heal through a fail effect, overall keeping my group alive is SO MUCH EASIER ON A FURY ITS STUPID. Left side is pretty overpowered and is just icing on the cake, porcupine is nice for starting fight/pre debuffs. I basically can do 5mil + on a single target like feshlak, and up to 10 million on fights like princes. Nerf furies honestly. Spirit of druidism for me is about a 80k ward per person because pot is so bananas with tact chains now. Stormcaller's renewal hits for like a 200k heal which once again, can basically keep my group alive.

[Caminus]

Hammdaddy said: ↑

“Left side is pretty overpowered”

And why would you reasonably even spec left side in a raid? Unless you're horribly undergeared and it's all you can do to keep your group topped off... Left side is rarely ever worth speccing for. You just lose too much going that side of the tree.

Hammdaddy said: ↑

“Spirit of druidism for me is about a 80k ward per person because pot is so bananas with tact chains now. Stormcaller's renewal hits for like a 200k heal which once again, can basically keep my group alive.”

You're not hitting those values outside of a raid. You don't hit 1300 potency in heroic content, or in relatively short raid fights. Or in raid fights where your group is separated from other groups in the raid (like the first fight in Maw) because for some reason uplifting procs have rather short ranges for the raid members that can trigger it. And even then, how many raid furies are ever hitting those numbers? Most raid forces aren't clearing maw, let alone with everyone in the fury's group wearing a tactical chain or dreadscale band and storm lord's ring of power. So while we might be able to reach those numbers, that's not what the majority of other furies get to see.

And even with all the gear some fights can still be a pain in the *** to keep the group alive. Especially if some of the mages are undergeared.

[Aneova]

Sorry but gonna say Warden is more OP on heals. An actual ward ,yes it's just elemental based but a ward you can cast when you wish and not relying on a proc is more useful then one you have to time just right. Spirit of Druidism doesn't ward for enough after the changes to HP, 30k worth of ward was amazing back before HP was hitting 1million. Protective Instinct is still kinda meh to me, to many fights I have to worry about keeping rotations going to worry about clicking that on and off.
As for Hibernate, I don't keep spamming it, I let it trigger naturally treating it like a dot or other HoT.
Porcupine is handy as a raid hot and mit boost, i almost wish they'd get rid of the trigger count but then i suppose then it would be OP to again allow it to run it's full course.
How about Raid CoT vs Group CoT as a Fury i have to wait 5 minutes before i can recast my Raid Cure over Time that ticks every 2 seconds and lasts for 16 seconds, Warden Group CoT is something like ever 2 minutes half the duration and hits every second.


I can keep going on, but there's no point, one class whines and another loses out, the scale will never be balanced for ANY class cause we're always bickering how one class has something better then the other.

[Hammdaddy]

Gatekeeper - Cast autumn's kiss/regrowth
Mirnella - Autumn's kiss/charge PI/save porq for double aoe, boom easy. (rough when darkon doesn't drop a flag and gives me people with 70k resists but i mean proper setup= easier fight!)
Feshlak - Can keep group up with no heals
Irdul - Autumn's kiss/somewhat difficult if you ignore blocks
Telk - My warlocks heal as much as me lol
Bristlebane - no heals cause you can tortoise through avatar event/cure aoes
Vulak - I don't cast any heals
Wings 1/2 is pretty simple, i cast heals on zlandi/klandi but that was doable like in march with 600 potency (see buffrats stream if you are questioning me)
Cruor - Have to heal on that
I have done all of this content pre practiced strikes bananas and i was reaching around 800potency on average and 1000 in the group with 1 tact chain/ 1 ring.
And regardless of my stats it still doesnt change the fact that the class has massive DR and group heal potential.

[Hammdaddy]

Aneova said: ↑

“Sorry but gonna say Warden is more OP on heals. An actual ward ,yes it's just elemental based but a ward you can cast when you wish and not relying on a proc is more useful then one you have to time just right. Spirit of Druidism doesn't ward for enough after the changes to HP, 30k worth of ward was amazing back before HP was hitting 1million. Protective Instinct is still kinda meh to me, to many fights I have to worry about keeping rotations going to worry about clicking that on and off.
As for Hibernate, I don't keep spamming it, I let it trigger naturally treating it like a dot or other HoT.
Porcupine is handy as a raid hot and mit boost, i almost wish they'd get rid of the trigger count but then i suppose then it would be OP to again allow it to run it's full course.
How about Raid CoT vs Group CoT as a Fury i have to wait 5 minutes before i can recast my Raid Cure over Time that ticks every 2 seconds and lasts for 16 seconds, Warden Group CoT is something like ever 2 minutes half the duration and hits every second.


I can keep going on, but there's no point, one class whines and another loses out, the scale will never be balanced for ANY class cause we're always bickering how one class has something better then the other.”

I mean the only fight i can think of you have to time any ward is lady mirnella and cruor, any fight that has constant ticking damage autumn's kiss alone keeps up with it basically. I keep hibernate on any fight i need to heal up permanently. Cures don't matter anymore because no fights are made like DOV- era

[Buffrat]

Furies are the best healer in game by far for raw group healing. Wardens don't really come close. I would even put Furies above Channelers. The *only* time a Warden might be better is vs an elemental dot, but that goes for any healer. A Mystic would solo heal better than a Fury (or any other healer) vs a noxious dot.

I'm personally stoked for the new prestige ability.

[theorial]

Hammdaddy said: ↑

“Between autumn's kiss extra tick/hibernation and the group DR, this classes group heals DESTROY WARDENS. The group death save every time i solo healed on a warden was to heal through a fail effect, overall keeping my group alive is SO MUCH EASIER ON A FURY ITS STUPID. Left side is pretty overpowered and is just icing on the cake, porcupine is nice for starting fight/pre debuffs. I basically can do 5mil + on a single target like feshlak, and up to 10 million on fights like princes. Nerf furies honestly. Spirit of druidism for me is about a 80k ward per person because pot is so bananas with tact chains now. Stormcaller's renewal hits for like a 200k heal which once again, can basically keep my group alive.”

DO NOT NERF FURIES! You do not speak for the other 99% of furies out there who aren't in a top tier raid guild, which is damn near most of them/us. I don't know how you could possibly be doing 5-10mil dps, but that is doing the same if not more than our best mages. I find that hard to believe first of all, but if true, anything you say does not apply for the rest of us. If this game is too easy for you, please go away and play something else so you don't ruin it for the rest of us with your nonsense about nerfing furies.

[Laita]

Wow... Warden's and Furies both crying over who is more OP... try life as any other healing class..

[Tylia]

I don't think any healing class is "OP". I have one of each and they each have their strengths and their weaknesses. I'm of the opinion.. play what you love to play and learn all the ins and outs of that class. Don't just waste your time fussing and obsessing over which class is too good for their own good (read "better than I am and I'm jealous so they should be made worse than me").

As for the topic of this thread.. with the limited time I have looked over the new Fury prestige, I'm not super impressed with it, but I need to take some more time to study it before I really form an opinion.

[Hammdaddy]

Priests in this game are horribly unbalanced, i mean if you just do heroics/accursed sanctum sure. Our sk can tank those zones without a healer, obviously class balance seems fine there, but when you get to harder content where stuff actually does damage and what not the weakness really start to show.

[Hammdaddy]

Laita said: ↑

“Wow... Warden's and Furies both crying over who is more OP... try life as any other healing class..”

Pretty sure mystics/templars have been amazing since like forever (except dov, templars were dicks). Defilers have never been relevant (see wonsokman healing everything as a mystic w/ max hp debuff) and inqs havn't been good for like 3 xpacs.

[Buffrat]

Furies should probably have their ae dps nerfed, lol. They're basically T1.5 on ae content.

Then again, their utility is dicks, and they don't have many death saves, so they're basically the original idea behind channelers: good healing, no utility, high personal dps.

[Buffrat]

Woops I hit reply instead of edit.

[Hammdaddy]

Idk animal form/fae fires/ primal fury/spirit of druidism is pretty stronk. Not to mention being able to stay in through aoes with tortoise shell seems pretty utility based to me~!

[Hammdaddy]

Oh lol i remembered that i outparsed a brigand/ranger and almost an assassin in an aoe fight,


Warlock/wizard/warlock/conj/wizard/****/me/ranger/troub/illy/brig/troub/illy