August Update Plans

[Koleg]

Moldylocks wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Kinya@Splitpaw wrote:

 

Dexella wrote:

Step Right Up!We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

Holly “Windstalker” Longdale

I don't remeber exactly how many times EQ2 players were assured that THIS WILL NOT happen..

So what happend? Is this a new directon for this game? Buy any loot you want for Station Cash? So when will we see Mythicals on MarketPlace?!

You're looking at this backwards.  This is not "Buying" gear or any sort of Pay-2-Win deal from the Station Cash Marketplace.  This is "Renting" Content, which happens to have gear contained within.  They never said they wouldn't do that, so cool your jets.

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

You would be bying the Temporary (thus the 'Renting' comment) the one time use of the content and some of that content becomes permenant outside of the temporary content.  This is how is was outlined above and this is how it stays out of the P2W scenario.  I don't really care about the 'items' involved, but the idea of paying a sub for content and then paying again for additional content is even worse than microtransactions or limited sized adventure packs (which I wouldn't mind if they brought back).

P2W is certainly concerning enough.  It keeps popping in and out all the time, most recently with Cure/Health/Power pots, rez scrolls and repair kits.  The Dungeon Maker by design is nothing more that P2W feature; more true now that ever with the largest containers and quivers, buy-on-the-fly ammo (if your dumb enough to run out), and -Whats That??- GEAR, yes GEAR that is better than anything available in current tier heroic content designed for 6 ppl.  And what exactly do you have to do to 'earn' it?  Enter and AE a few thousand mobs that takes all of a minute or two.  Just need to 'buy' the AOD expansion to have it available.  So, you buy (AOD) and do a trivial task (DM AE runs) and you get your choice of Raid level items with unlimited quantity and no element of randomness.  No, you're not already playing a P2W game are you.

My guess is this is a direct action to recoup the lost revenue SOE experienced from discounted double/triple half-price SC purchases on Gold Subs.  You (the community) has nobody but yourself (ourself) to blame.  How long does anyone think SOE will be in business after everyone tossed them $1.25 per month for the next 2 years rather than the $15 they were getting before.  Some people paid $15 for an anual sub where last year they would have paid $180.  It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, 180 > 15 by a lot.

 ...

WOW (Blizzard) has had open world (Global) Mythical drops since launch, they were rare enough that they were fun to chase after and exciting if and when they finially dropped.  It's not that big a deal as long as the drop rate is rare enough, as in ultra rare.

[Vellisse]

Dexella wrote:

Step Right Up! We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

The second this comes into the game, I will be manned and ready to cancel my subscription and after mentioning this in General 1-9 Chat on AB several other players are too.

Don't you dare add this into our game when promises were made that this wouldn't happen.

It's disgusting and shows the type of moneygrub SOE is.

And to whoever says this isn't pay2win your paying for a Ticket to enter a "simple, fun game" meaning trivial for a chest.

It is P2W.

[gourdon]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Moldylocks wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Kinya@Splitpaw wrote:

 

Dexella wrote:

Step Right Up!We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

Holly “Windstalker” Longdale

I don't remeber exactly how many times EQ2 players were assured that THIS WILL NOT happen..

So what happend? Is this a new directon for this game? Buy any loot you want for Station Cash? So when will we see Mythicals on MarketPlace?!

You're looking at this backwards.  This is not "Buying" gear or any sort of Pay-2-Win deal from the Station Cash Marketplace.  This is "Renting" Content, which happens to have gear contained within.  They never said they wouldn't do that, so cool your jets.

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

You would be bying the Temporary (thus the 'Renting' comment) the one time use of the content and some of that content becomes permenant outside of the temporary content.  This is how is was outlined above and this is how it stays out of the P2W scenario.  I don't really care about the 'items' involved, but the idea of paying a sub for content and then paying again for additional content is even worse than microtransactions or limited sized adventure packs (which I wouldn't mind if they brought back).

P2W is certainly concerning enough.  It keeps popping in and out all the time, most recently with Cure/Health/Power pots, rez scrolls and repair kits.  The Dungeon Maker by design is nothing more that P2W feature; more true now that ever with the largest containers and quivers, buy-on-the-fly ammo (if your dumb enough to run out), and -Whats That??- GEAR, yes GEAR that is better than anything available in current tier heroic content designed for 6 ppl.  And what exactly do you have to do to 'earn' it?  Enter and AE a few thousand mobs that takes all of a minute or two.  Just need to 'buy' the AOD expansion to have it available.  So, you buy (AOD) and do a trivial task (DM AE runs) and you get your choice of Raid level items with unlimited quantity and no element of randomness.  No, you're not already playing a P2W game are you.

My guess is this is a direct action to recoup the lost revenue SOE experienced from discounted double/triple half-price SC purchases on Gold Subs.  You (the community) has nobody but yourself (ourself) to blame.  How long does anyone think SOE will be in business after everyone tossed them $1.25 per month for the next 2 years rather than the $15 they were getting before.  Some people paid $15 for an anual sub where last year they would have paid $180.  It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, 180 > 15 by a lot.

 ...

WOW (Blizzard) has had open world (Global) Mythical drops since launch, they were rare enough that they were fun to chase after and exciting if and when they finially dropped.  It's not that big a deal as long as the drop rate is rare enough, as in ultra rare.

Dungeon Maker is nothing like the SC bought mystery box.  First, the tokens are earned in game without a cash transaction attached.  Second, while the dungeons are trivial to quite a few, they are challenging to many and it takes a significant effort for most to get 1000 marks.  As for the 153 stat items, they are no better than quest rewards in Skyshrine, cover 2-3 equipment slots, and aren't all that attractive to those few that the dungeons are extremely trivial.  Last I checked, that is how it is supposed to work.

The only ones to blame for lost revenue regarding Gold subscriptions is SOE, and selling gear for SC will not make their situation better.  If they want EQ2 to follow DCUO down the toilet, then they should proceed as they are.

[Moldylocks]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Moldylocks wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Kinya@Splitpaw wrote:

 

Dexella wrote:

Step Right Up!We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

Holly “Windstalker” Longdale

I don't remeber exactly how many times EQ2 players were assured that THIS WILL NOT happen..

So what happend? Is this a new directon for this game? Buy any loot you want for Station Cash? So when will we see Mythicals on MarketPlace?!

You're looking at this backwards.  This is not "Buying" gear or any sort of Pay-2-Win deal from the Station Cash Marketplace.  This is "Renting" Content, which happens to have gear contained within.  They never said they wouldn't do that, so cool your jets.

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

You would be bying the Temporary (thus the 'Renting' comment) the one time use of the content and some of that content becomes permenant outside of the temporary content.  This is how is was outlined above and this is how it stays out of the P2W scenario.  I don't really care about the 'items' involved, but the idea of paying a sub for content and then paying again for additional content is even worse than microtransactions or limited sized adventure packs (which I wouldn't mind if they brought back).

P2W is certainly concerning enough.  It keeps popping in and out all the time, most recently with Cure/Health/Power pots, rez scrolls and repair kits.  The Dungeon Maker by design is nothing more that P2W feature; more true now that ever with the largest containers and quivers, buy-on-the-fly ammo (if your dumb enough to run out), and -Whats That??- GEAR, yes GEAR that is better than anything available in current tier heroic content designed for 6 ppl.  And what exactly do you have to do to 'earn' it?  Enter and AE a few thousand mobs that takes all of a minute or two.  Just need to 'buy' the AOD expansion to have it available.  So, you buy (AOD) and do a trivial task (DM AE runs) and you get your choice of Raid level items with unlimited quantity and no element of randomness.  No, you're not already playing a P2W game are you.

My guess is this is a direct action to recoup the lost revenue SOE experienced from discounted double/triple half-price SC purchases on Gold Subs.  You (the community) has nobody but yourself (ourself) to blame.  How long does anyone think SOE will be in business after everyone tossed them $1.25 per month for the next 2 years rather than the $15 they were getting before.  Some people paid $15 for an anual sub where last year they would have paid $180.  It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, 180 > 15 by a lot.

 ...

WOW (Blizzard) has had open world (Global) Mythical drops since launch, they were rare enough that they were fun to chase after and exciting if and when they finially dropped.  It's not that big a deal as long as the drop rate is rare enough, as in ultra rare.

Ok.  You aren't renting anything.  Find that thought that keeps telling you that and flick it out of your head.

Your comment about this being put on the shoulders of the players is asinine.  Your logic jump of causation leaves much to be desired.  What is actually happening here is a snowball effect.  When Dave brought in the F2P transition, it was F2P-lite:  simple items and colorful fluffy nonsense.  Every few months, another layer is added and they judge player reaction.  More importantly, they look at sales.  The forums may be filled with a vocal minority (which Dave dismisses as trolls) that protests the changes, but all that matters now is the dramatic increase in revenue brought about by SC sales.  To them, it is irrelevant what 10-15 people have to say on the forums.  Its all about the bottom dollar, and Dave, Smed, and their bosses are giggling all the way to the bank.

So, this latest layer to that F2P snowball is what we see in August's update.  One bit at a time, gradually, ever so gradually and its not so painful.  People get used to it, more sales are raked in, and on it goes.  Wait until 2 years from now.  I would be very interested to see the Marketplace's state of evolution then.

[Lantis]

Now that Mythical items have been trivialized to the point that they can be found in Cracker Jack boxes (read: the chests you buy from the faction merchant in Skyshrine), I guess they had to create a new tier of ultra rare items.

Anyone else remembers when having a mythical item actually had a "Wow!" factor to it (not as in the Blizzard game)?  Now you play a lottery to get your chance at earning one from a faction crate - and the item is barely better than a Fabled item.  The label "Mythical" bears no meaning at all nowadays.

I wish SOE would have some serious, long-term plan regarding itemization in general.  Over the 7 years I've played this game, it's been a disorganized mess with no serious direction, being revamped every 2 expansions.  That would probably make far more players happy than SOEmote, which will (IMHO) end up with Dungeon Finders and the Arena on the list of forgotten features that look nice on paper, but get very little use once the first 2 weeks of experimentation by EQ2 players is done.

[Koleg]

gourdon wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Moldylocks wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Kinya@Splitpaw wrote:

 

Dexella wrote:

Step Right Up!We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

Holly “Windstalker” Longdale

I don't remeber exactly how many times EQ2 players were assured that THIS WILL NOT happen..

So what happend? Is this a new directon for this game? Buy any loot you want for Station Cash? So when will we see Mythicals on MarketPlace?!

You're looking at this backwards.  This is not "Buying" gear or any sort of Pay-2-Win deal from the Station Cash Marketplace.  This is "Renting" Content, which happens to have gear contained within.  They never said they wouldn't do that, so cool your jets.

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

You would be bying the Temporary (thus the 'Renting' comment) the one time use of the content and some of that content becomes permenant outside of the temporary content.  This is how is was outlined above and this is how it stays out of the P2W scenario.  I don't really care about the 'items' involved, but the idea of paying a sub for content and then paying again for additional content is even worse than microtransactions or limited sized adventure packs (which I wouldn't mind if they brought back).

P2W is certainly concerning enough.  It keeps popping in and out all the time, most recently with Cure/Health/Power pots, rez scrolls and repair kits.  The Dungeon Maker by design is nothing more that P2W feature; more true now that ever with the largest containers and quivers, buy-on-the-fly ammo (if your dumb enough to run out), and -Whats That??- GEAR, yes GEAR that is better than anything available in current tier heroic content designed for 6 ppl.  And what exactly do you have to do to 'earn' it?  Enter and AE a few thousand mobs that takes all of a minute or two.  Just need to 'buy' the AOD expansion to have it available.  So, you buy (AOD) and do a trivial task (DM AE runs) and you get your choice of Raid level items with unlimited quantity and no element of randomness.  No, you're not already playing a P2W game are you.

My guess is this is a direct action to recoup the lost revenue SOE experienced from discounted double/triple half-price SC purchases on Gold Subs.  You (the community) has nobody but yourself (ourself) to blame.  How long does anyone think SOE will be in business after everyone tossed them $1.25 per month for the next 2 years rather than the $15 they were getting before.  Some people paid $15 for an anual sub where last year they would have paid $180.  It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, 180 > 15 by a lot.

 ...

WOW (Blizzard) has had open world (Global) Mythical drops since launch, they were rare enough that they were fun to chase after and exciting if and when they finially dropped.  It's not that big a deal as long as the drop rate is rare enough, as in ultra rare.

Dungeon Maker is nothing like the SC bought mystery box.  First, the tokens are earned in game without a cash transaction attached.  Second, while the dungeons are trivial to quite a few, they are challenging to many and it takes a significant effort for most to get 1000 marks.  As for the 153 stat items, they are no better than quest rewards in Skyshrine, cover 2-3 equipment slots, and aren't all that attractive to those few that the dungeons are extremely trivial.  Last I checked, that is how it is supposed to work.

The only ones to blame for lost revenue regarding Gold subscriptions is SOE, and selling gear for SC will not make their situation better.  If they want EQ2 to follow DCUO down the toilet, then they should proceed as they are.

Dungeon Maker is exactly like SC bought mystery box.  You cannot possibly think DM Tokens are earned when ppl are stacking hundreds of mobs in a single room waiting for the first Crusader to hop in and yank out hundreds, if not thousands, of tokens in a single swipe.  It takes less than 30 minutes in DM to grab > 5,000 tokens and the -ONLY- reason to do it is for the charms, boxes & quivers (better than crafted /slap_2da_crafters), Ammo (that can be purchases mid-raid without leaving the zone, /slap_2da_crafters) or repair kits for people that refuse to become tinkerers (/slap_da_crafters).  The 153 stat items are, in fact, better than anything that is quested or dropped in any heroic (contested) included.  The only exception would be the rare fabled ones that still sell for a few hundred plat.  The P2W portion is you have to 'Buy' AOD to use the DM system and therefore you pay for the gear, which especially true for those of us that -do not- use Mercs, BLs or enjoy any part of the DM building system.  Those of us whom bought an Full Paid expansion for +20 AA and the ability to reforge the itemization SOE couldn't get right in the first place, could also be viewed as a P2W example.

I agree the only ones to blame for lost Sub revenue is SOE themselves, they were dumb enough to add Gold Subs to the SC market, which by itself would have been ok, but they went ahead and added them to the 50% sales list and allowed triple game cards to become part of the equation.  The problem is not who's fault it is, the problem is SOE -IS- going to need a certain amount of monthly cash flow, a cash flow which they themselves destroyed.  So where does that leave SOE now concerning cash flow which they no longer have?? Huh?  Do you think they will continue to support the game with service and development when they are not getting paid for it.  I highly doubt the 15 bucks I gave them for a 12 month Sub per account, compared to the 180 dollars per account I would have, will be generating any new content.  It's hardly enough to run the server farms or keep the lights on.

Moldylocks wrote:

Ok.  You aren't renting anything.  Find that thought that keeps telling you that and flick it out of your head.

Your  then.

You are 'Renting' the gaming content.  You buy a ticket, which is for a one time use of that content.  Then after you have used it, it is no longer available to you.  If you want to use it again, then guess what champ, that's right, you 'BUY' it again.  You may be thinking of it as buying the gear contained withing the content, you might even think of it as buying the gear directly, but you are not, it is the -CONTENT- that they are selling or in this case 'Renting', the gaming environment, not the gear.  Check it out, go back up to the OP and re-re-read it, maybe you'll understand then.

[Yimway]

Moldylocks wrote:

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

First, let me say I'm sure I completely agree with you, but let me play devil's advocate...

How exactly is that much different than the LoN system?

In LoN you buy lottery tickets for loot cards, this system you buy access to minigames that have a chance of loot.

If the rewards are similar to LoN loot cards, how different is it?

[Raienya]

Any way you slice it, the answer will be the same. SoE doesn't care what we think. That is abundantly clear from everything that has been put in the game after hundreds of posts saying "we don't need or want this".

It is their game, they will put in what they "think" is the best thing, whether or not the people playing and testing their content say it is wrong or broken.

Don't like it, vote with your wallet.

[Koleg]

Moldylocks wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

You are 'Renting' the gaming content.  You buy a ticket, which is for a one time use of that content.  Then after you have used it, it is no longer available to you.  If you want to use it again, then guess what champ, that's right, you 'BUY' it again.  You may be thinking of it as buying the gear contained withing the content, you might even think of it as buying the gear directly, but you are not, it is the -CONTENT- that they are selling or in this case 'Renting', the gaming environment, not the gear.  Check it out, go back up to the OP and re-re-read it, maybe you'll understand then.

Ok, I am fresh out of puppets and crayons.  Everyone but you gets what is happening here, and its not a requirement for you to understand.  Its an unnecessary distraction, and doesn't even make for stimulating debate.

For everyone else, I imagine this is going to go through no matter what feedback is given.  I've seen feedback threads with multiple thousands of posts that did not change SOE's mind, but hey, you never know.  What they should do is give examples of the gear you can gain through this feature, including the best possible piece you might find.  While having this feature is bad enough, seeing the real scope of impact by knowing what the items are will be much more valuable information.

See that is funny and sad to me, becasue people are missing the entire fact of what SOE is doing and the direction they are seemingly heading in with this.  If there was no gear invovled in the mini-game, first off nobody would use is (a.k.a. pay for it) and seemingly you, and as you say everybody else, would perfectly be fine with it.  You can't see the forest through the trees here.

SOE is creating temportary game content (land mass, game play, scripted environments) for recurring costs, you know the same type of product we are paying for via the Subscription.  Well the only difference is that under this model, which you admit you'd be perfectly fine with as long as there was no permanent items, the Gold Subscription does not gain a player access.  The Gold Sub, whether recurring or non-recurring, is suppose to include game content based on retail boxed expansion purchased.  This is something entirely new, different and can become the new trend.  This is how LotR has based its F2P model as well.

So, no longer will a Subscription to the game include all the gaming content, it will become a-la-cart with built in micro-transactions.  And you're worried about a couple of new in-game items being bought from the Marketplace, which is already in the game, but you've already accepted them as being 'OK', but somehow these new items (which you doen't even know how good they are) are too much for you to bare.

/em it's time to wake up and think for yourself.

[Neiloch]

The fact that we have heard nothing about this mini-game thing and it's being implemented very soon should be enough to raise alarms.

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Dungeon Maker is exactly like SC bought mystery box.

Except one costs real cash and the other doesn't. Kind of a big difference. What you just said is like saying monopoly money is just like real money.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

If the rewards are similar to LoN loot cards, how different is it?

Not much. and will be fine if that is what it is. But like I said SoE has recently adopted a policy of something being rare excusing the lack of difficulty. Top end items dropping off trivial content is fine just as long as the drop rate is low (according to them apparently). I wouldn't be surprised if making high end loot drop in these mini-games with a low drop rate isn't a big leap in their eyes, even though it would be MASSIVE in ours.

[Grumble69]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Moldylocks wrote:

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

First, let me say I'm sure I completely agree with you, but let me play devil's advocate...

How exactly is that much different than the LoN system?

In LoN you buy lottery tickets for loot cards, this system you buy access to minigames that have a chance of loot.

If the rewards are similar to LoN loot cards, how different is it?

As long as it's equivalent to LoN, that's ok.  i.e. house items, mounts, fashion cloaks, etc.  I think the issue is that many people are reading "loot" and seeing that as synonymous with "raid dropped loot".  i.e. weapons, armor, etc.

[Koleg]

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

The fact that we have heard nothing about this mini-game thing and it's being implemented very soon should be enough to raise alarms.

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Dungeon Maker is exactly like SC bought mystery box.

Except one costs real cash and the other doesn't. Kind of a big difference. What you just said is like saying monopoly money is just like real money.

I didn't realize you got your copy of Age of Discovery for free, becasue my pre-order Collector's Edition was like $60 dollars and have the CC reciept to prove it, and I know for a certain fact some people paid $90.  Not everybody considers that free nor did everybody wait for a trible half-price sale and buy it the SE for $7.50

People seem to keep forgeting all of that.  Free <> taking money out of my bank account.

[Neiloch]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

The fact that we have heard nothing about this mini-game thing and it's being implemented very soon should be enough to raise alarms.

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Dungeon Maker is exactly like SC bought mystery box.

Except one costs real cash and the other doesn't. Kind of a big difference. What you just said is like saying monopoly money is just like real money.

I didn't realize you got your copy of Age of Discovery for free, becasue my pre-order Collector's Edition was like $60 dollars and have the CC reciept to prove it, and I know for a certain fact some people paid $90.  Not everybody considers that free nor did everybody wait for a trible half-price sale and buy it the SE for $7.50

People seem to keep forgeting all of that.  Free <> taking money out of my bank account.

lol that's just silly. With that logic the entire game is pay2win just because we have access to the loot, we just have to go get it. Getting access via expansion has no upper limit on chances to get things, such as unlimited access to earning DM tokens. If I bought a ticket and it lasted for an unlimited amount of runs it would be like an expansion and thus not pay2win. But it doesn't so it isn't.

[Yimway]

Grumble69 wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

If the rewards are similar to LoN loot cards, how different is it?

As long as it's equivalent to LoN, that's ok.  i.e. house items, mounts, fashion cloaks, etc.  I think the issue is that many people are reading "loot" and seeing that as synonymous with "raid dropped loot".  i.e. weapons, armor, etc.

Yeah, while the whole thing smells fishy to me, I can not immediately condemn it until I see the 'loot'.

[Moldylocks]

Grumble69 wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Moldylocks wrote:

Let me walk you through this.  Carefully. 

1. You BUY a token (not rent).
2. You then do a trivial task.  This is put in place so there isn't a direct item-to-hand through purchase.  Its a mechanic that covers their butts so they can come back and say, "It isn't Pay To Win, its a reward game with elements of randomness."
3. You then get your item.

Simple enough?  It is a P2W feature.  You are paying money for gear, period.

First, let me say I'm sure I completely agree with you, but let me play devil's advocate...

How exactly is that much different than the LoN system?

In LoN you buy lottery tickets for loot cards, this system you buy access to minigames that have a chance of loot.

If the rewards are similar to LoN loot cards, how different is it?

As long as it's equivalent to LoN, that's ok.  i.e. house items, mounts, fashion cloaks, etc.  I think the issue is that many people are reading "loot" and seeing that as synonymous with "raid dropped loot".  i.e. weapons, armor, etc.

As was said above, it all depends on what items will be available.  They haven't supplied that information yet.  Right now its just a lot of conjecture.

[Koleg]

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

The fact that we have heard nothing about this mini-game thing and it's being implemented very soon should be enough to raise alarms.

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Dungeon Maker is exactly like SC bought mystery box.

Except one costs real cash and the other doesn't. Kind of a big difference. What you just said is like saying monopoly money is just like real money.

I didn't realize you got your copy of Age of Discovery for free, becasue my pre-order Collector's Edition was like $60 dollars and have the CC reciept to prove it, and I know for a certain fact some people paid $90.  Not everybody considers that free nor did everybody wait for a trible half-price sale and buy it the SE for $7.50

People seem to keep forgeting all of that.  Free <> taking money out of my bank account.

lol that's just silly. With that logic the entire game is pay2win just because we have access to the loot, we just have to go get it. Getting access via expansion has no upper limit on chances to get things, such as unlimited access to earning DM tokens. If I bought a ticket and it lasted for an unlimited amount of runs it would be like an expansion and thus not pay2win. But it doesn't so it isn't.

Maybe ... but those items were not in the expansion when it went to retail nor did I buy AOD specifically for them.  Those items were added to the DM reward system to keep the hampsters running on the wheel.  And that is why loot will be rewarded for any mini-game that is not included in the price of the Sub.  So get use to it.

[Dexella]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to take a moment to address the comments about "Step Right Up!" The description in the update plans is indeed meant to be a teaser.

We will have full details about the mini-games and the type of loot that will be available in another update specific to this feature that will be released soon. 

Thanks 

~Dexella

[cajonmoose]

Regarding the Etherial Weapons,

I personally have already seen one in game. Was this an intentional leak? I'm on the Freeport Server and someone had one for sale..... they were asking 15,000 Plat, but still. It was a dagger with an insane amount of wisdom, Agility and Stamina.

I should have taken a screenshot for proof, but I was still very impressed, but rather sad to see that they are tradeable/Sellable. Will there eventually be some screenshots of the new possible weapons?

[Araxes]

SOE wrote:

We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

I am curious to see a further explanation of this.

I know that, at the end of the day, it is up to the player to decide what they want to spend their money on, and so if they would like to toss their vritual rings onto randomized ducks for a chance to win something, that is up to them -- but at what point does the company draw a line on providing these options.  At best, an amusement park attraction barely skating around the classification of "casino."  I truly don't know how I feel about dedicating money and time to a game world where I know other people are [perhaps ignorantly] playing roulette with their dollar bills.  It is one thing to pay real money for an item which you are guaranteed to be granted, like cosmetic clothing for your character -- that isn't really any different than walking into a store and buying a real-world good -- but this seems a different idea, altogether.

Still, I will wait to see what it really entails.  I don't know that this is something I would tout as a "good" addition to an MMO, though.

That note aside, I am looking forward to seeing SOEmote and the rest of the update.

Ara

[Conandar]

Now that Qeynos Rises is live, we’re switching gears to a year-end expansion and working on live content and bugs.

That is good news...as long as it isn't another Drunder with 3 Heroic zones and 3 Raid zones using the same boring layout.  But...the expansion isn't until the end of the year, so why is this in a monthly update?

Tinkerfest returns!

This is also a good thing, so no complaints here.  But it happens every year, so its not really monthly update news-worthly.

Ethereal Weapons Fall in Summer

New weapons that are near-raid quality, but drop off trash in outdoor zones?  What?  And no 4.0 delay level 92 scout weapon makes me cry!  Yeah, there is a 6.0 delay scout weapon, but that delay is not good for most scouts IMO.

We are adding a feature where you can play instanced mini-games to win random loot in game!  You purchase a ticket that gives you access to a mini-game instance.  Should you beat the simple, fun game, you receive a random reward from a chest, or opt for tokens you can spend on items available on a merchant.  We will be selling the tickets for Station Cash in the marketplace.

The marketplace was supposed to be only filled with non-game affecting items...fluff.  Yeah, this isn't *technically* on the market, only the tickets are on the marketplace....the lines keep on blurring.  So much for the promise we got from Brenlo (This isn't some slippery slope...really?)

SOEmote Your Way

I don't have a web camera.  I don't want a web camera.  To have this be a major part of a monthly update for a game that I pay for 2 accounts ... major disappointment!  This has ZERO value to the game for me.  Zero.  Zilch.  Nada.

Basically this month's update is filled with yawnworthy stuff, at best.

[gourdon]

Dexella wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to take a moment to address the comments about "Step Right Up!" The description in the update plans is indeed meant to be a teaser.

We will have full details about the mini-games and the type of loot that will be available in another update specific to this feature that will be released soon. 

Thanks 

~Dexella

I hope you realize this post isn't going to help.  Teasers about stuff on the marketplace is never a good idea.  It can only lead us to conjecture that the game will be going to a pay to win model.

[Tyrus Dracofire]

too much in 1 week limited time events at once.

i had to pass up Gfay's city festival trying to do tinker events but now ethereal loots just took more time away from other festival, so i have to wait another six month for next gfay's city festival for undivided attention.

it really hard for having 7 alts trying to get all "holiday cheer' achievements, had to give up last year because none of my alts were ready and i was in raiding, no time for personal time for alts.

doing all in 1 week with 3 different events is bit extreme.

anyway, Antonica's PQ battle seem to buggy for high level characters to get rewards, even i did mentored down to 20 and still get nothing for my efforts and dying few times defending the farmers from gnolls.

[General_Info]

Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:

it really hard for having 7 alts trying to get all "holiday cheer' achievements, had to give up last year because none of my alts were ready and i was in raiding, no time for personal time for alts.

It's not as hard as you make it out to be jsuth ave to know gnomish and do the great balls of fire quest once to count as 'participating' for the achievement.

[Kenazeer]

Weeeee...down the slip-n-slide we go. (camouflaged by the good old "money laundering" technique of hiding things through numerous transactions...it isn't how you couch it, or the individual steps you take, it simply the beginning and the end that matter.) 

[Dethdlr]

cajonmoose wrote:

Regarding the Etherial Weapons,

I personally have already seen one in game. Was this an intentional leak? I'm on the Freeport Server and someone had one for sale..... they were asking 15,000 Plat, but still. It was a dagger with an insane amount of wisdom, Agility and Stamina.

I should have taken a screenshot for proof, but I was still very impressed, but rather sad to see that they are tradeable/Sellable. Will there eventually be some screenshots of the new possible weapons?

As they get discovered, they will show up here.  25 total have been discovered so far. 

If you only want to see the level 92 items as they get discovered, you can see them here.  6 have been discovered so far.

[Windstalker]

Howdy folks,

I wanted to give you more info on mini-game instances and random reward system we are working on.

First, the loot items will primarly include Marketplace items already available with additional similar but unique items in addition.  For example, as of today, we are planning to offer a new, unique mount model to the list.  For the sake of real examples and clarity, the list we have right now includes items like Research Reducers for spells, XP potions, appearance armor and weapons, and unattuners.

Second, we want this to be fun and positive for players who participate. For that reason, if the random reward offered isn't an item you want or can use, you can opt to take a token reward instead of the item. The tokens can be used/saved to purchase the available reward items in the entire list and will cost varying token amounts as you might expect (like a rare mount would have a different cost than a more common potion). 

Third, the idea for the mini-games is that they are mini-games. They are intended to be short and fun and result in a reward. Right now we have three mini-games though you only have to play and win one to get a reward. 

And lastly, the team definitely wanted this addition to the game to have context in the world of EverQuest II. It has an appropriate and logical place among the Gigglegibbers.  We'll get some screenshots out soon.  All I can say is seeing a goblin in a tophat never gets old....

I hope this lessens the mystery a bit and of course there will be more news on this very soon as we hope to have it on test within the next couple of weeks.

[Lamatu]

Windstalker wrote:

Howdy folks,

I wanted to give you more info on mini-game instances and random reward system we are working on.

First, the loot items will primarly include Marketplace items already available with additional similar but unique items in addition.  For example, as of today, we are planning to offer a new, unique mount model to the list.  For the sake of real examples and clarity, the list we have right now includes items like Research Reducers for spells, XP potions, appearance armor and weapons, and unattuners.

I can't imagine any blow back from unattuners on the marketplace.

[Avirodar]

Windstalker wrote:

Howdy folks,

I wanted to give you more info on mini-game instances and random reward system we are working on.

First, the loot items will primarly include Marketplace items already available with additional similar but unique items in addition.  For example, as of today, we are planning to offer a new, unique mount model to the list.  For the sake of real examples and clarity, the list we have right now includes items like Research Reducers for spells, XP potions, appearance armor and weapons, and unattuners.

Second, we want this to be fun and positive for players who participate. For that reason, if the random reward offered isn't an item you want or can use, you can opt to take a token reward instead of the item. The tokens can be used/saved to purchase the available reward items in the entire list and will cost varying token amounts as you might expect (like a rare mount would have a different cost than a more common potion). 

Third, the idea for the mini-games is that they are mini-games. They are intended to be short and fun and result in a reward. Right now we have three mini-games though you only have to play and win one to get a reward. 

And lastly, the team definitely wanted this addition to the game to have context in the world of EverQuest II. It has an appropriate and logical place among the Gigglegibbers.  We'll get some screenshots out soon.  All I can say is seeing a goblin in a tophat never gets old....

I hope this lessens the mystery a bit and of course there will be more news on this very soon as we hope to have it on test within the next couple of weeks.

Thank you for lessening the mystery a bit.I am interested to see the final details. Based on information provided thus far, the way I see it unfolding, is that the mini games will be farmed for tokens, to use for unattuners.Is this the plan?

[Reeso]

yay...huh

i have a far better idea...why not close down all raid instances and sell tickets on the marketplace( only useable once) to gain acess to them....oh no wait even better have a chance of getting acess to them...if u manage to get in there u are allowed to have a spin on the giant wheel of fortune to get your loot ( one piece)... so everyone could get their loot and u don't have to deal with raid content...u still know what that is right?...it's win-win!

u could even sell potions that have a chance to get u 2 pieces instead of just one...but u are only allowed to buy them if u liked eq2 on your facebookacc...just think of all the possibilities!

[KNINE]

Windstalker wrote:

Howdy folks,

I wanted to give you more info on mini-game instances and random reward system we are working on.

First, the loot items will primarly include Marketplace items already available with additional similar but unique items in addition.  For example, as of today, we are planning to offer a new, unique mount model to the list.  For the sake of real examples and clarity, the list we have right now includes items like Research Reducers for spells, XP potions, appearance armor and weapons, and unattuners.

Second, we want this to be fun and positive for players who participate. For that reason, if the random reward offered isn't an item you want or can use, you can opt to take a token reward instead of the item. The tokens can be used/saved to purchase the available reward items in the entire list and will cost varying token amounts as you might expect (like a rare mount would have a different cost than a more common potion). 

Third, the idea for the mini-games is that they are mini-games. They are intended to be short and fun and result in a reward. Right now we have three mini-games though you only have to play and win one to get a reward. 

And lastly, the team definitely wanted this addition to the game to have context in the world of EverQuest II. It has an appropriate and logical place among the Gigglegibbers.  We'll get some screenshots out soon.  All I can say is seeing a goblin in a tophat never gets old....

I hope this lessens the mystery a bit and of course there will be more news on this very soon as we hope to have it on test within the next couple of weeks.

well guess I will drop down to 1 account now.. what with mini-games that I can go to yahoo.com and play..a little update on something like chat lag that has been around since the introduction of Skyshrine..it was on test as well and was well just ignored..dropping ethereal weapons from old zones lol.. i just recently got one from a sundered frontier zone...can't we just fix the stuff that is broken first.. concentrate on that before we come out with more "mini-games", station cash items, etc.. i completly understand it is easier to code in new stuff and it's complicated to find what you broke.. but lets give you're paying clients a little love here and not just all your FTP community.