New drunder RAID Items on test!! Dev response please

[Yimway]

I love the amount of feedback from SoE on this one.

[Daalilama]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I love the amount of feedback from SoE on this one.

The devs have essentially just abdicated their responsiblity here on this topic, the physical mit nerf, you name it anything and everything they are intending to "bring" in for gu64.

[Furore]

Which is the exact same thing they've done since 2008 basically.  SOE is absolutely terrible at communication.  They're known throughout the gaming industry as a poor company.  We're just the suckers paying them for poor performance.

[kalaria]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I love the amount of feedback from SoE on this one.

Par for the course.Seems like anything involving mechanics / itemization is done in a black boxs ignoring player feedback completely.

[Yimway]

kalaria wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I love the amount of feedback from SoE on this one.

Par for the course.Seems like anything involving mechanics / itemization is done in a black boxs ignoring player feedback completely.

I don't even care so much about ignoring feedback, its the no clear communication of what they are doing and what they hope to accomplish by it.

Makes it kinda hard to say their doing a good job or not when we're so far in the dark regarding itemization and mechanics.

[Barx]

When it was announced that the revamped HM drunder loot would fall between skyshrine and PoWar while keeping the red slots for war runes I thought itemization might just have a chance. After the garbage of Skyshrine (terrible procs that don't even work properly if you have 2 similar items) I hoped for, if not intelligently planned loot at least something that would be useful.

Seing the images posted here shattered that illusion. All we get is more of the same skyshrine garbage with stats that I could generate with a spreadsheet in one 8-hour day (probably with room to take a nice long nap). Itemization fell off a cliff and has only continued to get worse with every single update since PoWar's loot.

This stuff is a joke, only no one's laughing.

Worst of all is so much could be salvaged so easily. Step 1: add red slots on the appropriate items for HM drunder (any item that previously had one gets one) AND PoWar. Step 2: remove the garbage procs from items with red slots. If you want some procs, put them on jewelry slots that do not have red adornment slots. Step 3: Add some of the better war runes from old HM DoV onto HM drunder and PoWar and take the terrible ones off onto a merchant or something. Step 4: Add slighty upgraded versions the old PQ war runes onto HM drunder (Greater Fervor being a big one there). Step 5: Have an actual human being look over the new loot to make sure it make sense and there isn't items that don't fit the trend in there like we have in Skyshrine. Step 6: Let the community look it over for you and listen to them as they double and n-th check the items. So much look goes live stupidly broken when there's no reason for it.

[Soul_Dreamer]

Red slots can vanish, I really couldn't care about the slot itself. The effects from red slots need to be in game though, drop some of the crappy procs which are basiclaly copies of war runes no one uses and put on some of the required ones.

Stoneskin - SSRPower - ManalinkAOE Avoid - BenefactionDamage REduction - Relentles.CC Immunity - Lots of Different Runes

To name but a few.

[crackers_87]

Soul_Dreamer wrote:

Red slots can vanish, I really couldn't care about the slot itself. The effects from red slots need to be in game though, drop some of the crappy procs which are basiclaly copies of war runes no one uses and put on some of the required ones.

Stoneskin - SSRPower - ManalinkAOE Avoid - BenefactionDamage REduction - Relentles.CC Immunity - Lots of Different Runes

To name but a few.

As you can see SoE is not any good with proc's. It is bad when you cet proc's on most group zone drops, but almost none on the raid gear. The raid gear we do get with proc's on then have the same proc on them that will not stac.They were better off with the Red Slots, that way we could use what we needed for our toons. On top of that, were is the Deagro-Dehate porc's that we had before? Give them Back SoE! 

Edit: SoE did do ok with some of the PoW proc's

[ratbast]

i absolutely love the war rune system. its additional loot that is unlocked accountwide for a vendor fee. its customizable. and the procs are powerful. its like a collector minigame, and another chance to win something on a raid. i get why they want to nerf procs in general, they can be overpowering. i think the community feedback on this issue is pretty clear tho. ppl like the system. after spending a year waiting turns for different runes, bidding dkp, winning /ran rolls, whatever, ppl feel they earned it. i hate skyshrine gear for red adorn gear slots. i rarely use any. the 3 potency/cb advantage, plus reforgability isnt worth the trash procs(and decreased versatility) for me. it will take a larger statflation to wean me from war runes, and i wont like it when i finally switch. imo, the script intensive nature of end game makes for terrible progression. its great for uber players who can handle it, but when content loses relevence, its a tangle for casuals who should now be on it. hm drunder has cutthroat scripting fails. i think that is where most casual/semi hardcore guilds are now. its not just that the risk doesnt match reward, its that the type of content is a poor match for player demographic on it. casuals do not raid for script intensive content. imo they wanna enjoy the scenery and click their ca/spells. interact with other players in vent. not spend 2 hours wiping cuz 1 person cant use an inventory script item. imo, there should be a process for retiring scripts that are the primary obstacle of encounters, as game world and content advances. if hm drunder gets no red slots, it sure as hell doesnt belong with scripts as the primary fail condition. kudos to those who can meet scripts, match them, and win. i just think its poor content type for casuals, who are now creeping up on hm drunder. having scripts be the primary obstacle of any encounter is walking on thin ice. its a feature not for advanced players, but 24 advanced players who can work coop. single fail wipe conditions (especially those that require competence from a random person out of 24) just make recovery take that much longer. obviously tank and spank is not hard enough, but i dont think the scripting content is a match for current casual raid progression. it was designed with minmax uber players in mind who get benched for screw ups, and have ppl apping to guild who will fill your spot.

edit: i also think they need to allow sell back to war rune merchant for full shard and plat cost. its dumb to have a million bane of kromzek getting looted for no purpose. common war runes should give some benefit.

[alaplayer]

ratbast wrote:

i absolutely love the war rune system.

Yes it was very nice, could have been implemented better perhaps with some sort of token system for unlocking more powerful war runes, or unlocking them based on level of content cleared. It could have been fixed, it could have been made to work but as par for the course they take a wrecking ball to it, redo it from the ground up and now we wear multiple pieces of gear where we have 3-4 of the same or similar yet still non stacking procs where we must remove gear and put it on in a special order for it to proc properly.

i think the community feedback on this issue is pretty clear tho. ppl like the system.

This generally seems to make them think that it needs more 'tweaking'after spending a year waiting turns for different runes, bidding dkp, winning /ran rolls, whatever, ppl feel they earned it.

They will probably keep the NPC in the game where people can go purchase it, they are just obsoleting it by other means.imo, the script intensive nature of end game makes for terrible progression. its great for uber players who can handle it, but when content loses relevence, its a tangle for casuals who should now be on it. hm drunder has cutthroat scripting fails. i think that is where most casual/semi hardcore guilds are now.

The thing is HM drunder was not intended for casuals, if causals want to do Drunder then there is a version for them, that is why it is labeled HM/Challenge. I do not understand why this is such a hard concept to graspits not just that the risk doesnt match reward, its that the type of content is a poor match for player demographic on it. casuals do not raid for script intensive content. imo they wanna enjoy the scenery and click their ca/spells. interact with other players in vent. not spend 2 hours wiping cuz 1 person cant use an inventory script item.

Then again they can go to the EM version of the zone that is what it is there for, this is not about that though this is about a feeling of being entitled to the same gear because you pay the same price, it has everything to do with risk vs reward, this is just a cop-out. kudos to those who can meet scripts, match them, and win. i just think its poor content type for casuals, who are now creeping up on hm drunder.

Then they need to creep up on something else or get better, the extra 2 levels, the new prestige abilites make the content easier. I feel the need to point out once again that this content you speak of is labeled CHALLENGE MODE what is the problem with it being challenging?

having scripts be the primary obstacle of any encounter is walking on thin ice. its a feature not for advanced players, but 24 advanced players who can work coop. single fail wipe conditions (especially those that require competence from a random person out of 24) just make recovery take that much longer.

obviously tank and spank is not hard enough, but i dont think the scripting content is a match for current casual raid progression. it was designed with minmax uber players in mind who get benched for screw ups, and have ppl apping to guild who will fill your spot.

We have cleared HM drunder through Hand of Vallon, and the first 2 named in PoW. At some point in every raid someone screws up, sometimes it causes a wipe, sometimes a few deaths we don't bench people for mistakes the only thing that will get you benched in continued incompetence.

[lazlo1]

Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:

When it was announced that the revamped HM drunder loot would fall between skyshrine and PoWar while keeping the red slots for war runes I thought itemization might just have a chance. After the garbage of Skyshrine (terrible procs that don't even work properly if you have 2 similar items) I hoped for, if not intelligently planned loot at least something that would be useful.

Seing the images posted here shattered that illusion. All we get is more of the same skyshrine garbage with stats that I could generate with a spreadsheet in one 8-hour day (probably with room to take a nice long nap). Itemization fell off a cliff and has only continued to get worse with every single update since PoWar's loot.

This stuff is a joke, only no one's laughing.

Worst of all is so much could be salvaged so easily. Step 1: add red slots on the appropriate items for HM drunder (any item that previously had one gets one) AND PoWar. Step 2: remove the garbage procs from items with red slots. If you want some procs, put them on jewelry slots that do not have red adornment slots. Step 3: Add some of the better war runes from old HM DoV onto HM drunder and PoWar and take the terrible ones off onto a merchant or something. Step 4: Add slighty upgraded versions the old PQ war runes onto HM drunder (Greater Fervor being a big one there). Step 5: Have an actual human being look over the new loot to make sure it make sense and there isn't items that don't fit the trend in there like we have in Skyshrine. Step 6: Let the community look it over for you and listen to them as they double and n-th check the items. So much look goes live stupidly broken when there's no reason for it.

Stop trying to use logic. It will not work....  Its going to be auto-generated with no human thought added.  Welcome to .5 more CB and .5 more PT.

[Tigerr]

I just find it funny how Kander announced the fact that they will be KEEPING the red slots on the belts and the cloaks... The weps I understand (Even though I'd like them to keep the redslot)... This really needs to be addressed, there is no changing your mind half way through this, the reason people were excited about the revamp was because they knew those horrid procs on the skyshrine stuff was going away in HM drunder and we would be able to use warrunes on belts + cloaks (Which if you DONOT add this in, we wont be able to use it AT ALL because we wont be able to go back to HM drunder and get the belts + cloaks with the red slots.. they were the ONLY belts/cloaks/charms in game that werent complete garbage) So basically if this goes in, the old stuff is GONE (only stuff raiders used) and the new people or people that want it for a different toon are screwed.. It is kinda funny how even while doing something veryy good, they still find a way to mess it up. Devs, add the slots like promised. Also, regarding drunder being too hard, really?. There is facerollable skyshrine that has 2 zones that are completely easy, especially since the scrubs can sit there and farm the trash mobs for items. Drunder HM is PERFECT where it is, they lowered the health of every HM x4 mob in the game not long ago (1 month, maybe less) .. Sorry but, casuals have enough content. Noone needs to have their hand held through drunder just because they want to experience the hard stuff. It is supposed to be hard, sorry. ( with lvl 92, its pretty easy compared to before). Devs, this is not a revamp of every single item in eq2, it is only 3 challenge zones and honestly, you can dedicate some hours and put a HUMAN to look at this stuff.

[Daalilama]

Any word about the old gear tables...I'd hate it if they remove the wardrapes before I can get the templar one....tbh better raid cloak then skyshrine cookie cutter crap.

[Barx]

Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:

Any word about the old gear tables...I'd hate it if they remove the wardrapes before I can get the templar one....tbh better raid cloak then skyshrine cookie cutter crap.

The old items will no longer drop from HM Drunder. That's why it's critical they fix the new loot.

[ratbast]

Tigerr wrote:

I just find it funny how Kander announced the fact that they will be KEEPING the red slots on the belts and the cloaks... The weps I understand (Even though I'd like them to keep the redslot)... This really needs to be addressed, there is no changing your mind half way through this, the reason people were excited about the revamp was because they knew those horrid procs on the skyshrine stuff was going away in HM drunder and we would be able to use warrunes on belts + cloaks (Which if you DONOT add this in, we wont be able to use it AT ALL because we wont be able to go back to HM drunder and get the belts + cloaks with the red slots.. they were the ONLY belts/cloaks/charms in game that werent complete garbage) So basically if this goes in, the old stuff is GONE (only stuff raiders used) and the new people or people that want it for a different toon are screwed.. It is kinda funny how even while doing something veryy good, they still find a way to mess it up. Devs, add the slots like promised. Also, regarding drunder being too hard, really?. There is facerollable skyshrine that has 2 zones that are completely easy, especially since the scrubs can sit there and farm the trash mobs for items. Drunder HM is PERFECT where it is, they lowered the health of every HM x4 mob in the game not long ago (1 month, maybe less) .. Sorry but, casuals have enough content. Noone needs to have their hand held through drunder just because they want to experience the hard stuff. It is supposed to be hard, sorry. ( with lvl 92, its pretty easy compared to before). Devs, this is not a revamp of every single item in eq2, it is only 3 challenge zones and honestly, you can dedicate some hours and put a HUMAN to look at this stuff.

im not personally invested in hm drunder being where casuals are atm. but at some point, with the current progression trend, it will be their most current and relevent content.

eq2 did not do a content reset with gu63, it was an extension or dovetail that didnt even BUILD, all its content was inferior to PoW. the breadth of content, plus passage of time inevitably means casuals progress into script intensive content designed for hardcores. unless a new content reset comes along, with a low end script poor version(EM).

imo, script intensive gates only belong at endgame. i couldnt solo the djinn master for many expacs, including while he was grey, because of scripting. its terrible design to not have a retirement system for 'win' buttons on irrelevent mobs, and heavy scripting in general.

i think i could get guildies together and go do underfootdepthsx4 in SF, if they removed some of the more overpowering scripting. some times ppl just want to bruteforce their way thru. especially when it comes to old content, i know i would enjoy seeing how far ive come and how overpowering my gear is relevent to an old challenge that required full 24 raid.

my 2 cents is that scripting is a hack job to accomplish a cool idea. the whole playerbase isnt ready to meet and respond to cool ideas, and scripting also doesnt scale with levels, or with # in group.

[Lyndro-EQ2]

Red slots will be going on the new belts and cloaks. We'll take a look at some of the other concerns from the thread, no promises one way or the other, but the slots will be on the new items.

[Barx]

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Red slots will be going on the new belts and cloaks. We'll take a look at some of the other concerns from the thread, no promises one way or the other, but the slots will be on the new items.

Thats good to hear, but what about charms, primary, secondary, and ranged items in new HM drunder?

[kingela]

this is a stupid change.When you can fix nerf on items you can also fix upgrade 

[Sigmaz01]

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Red slots will be going on the new belts and cloaks. We'll take a look at some of the other concerns from the thread, no promises one way or the other, but the slots will be on the new items.

Can you also please look into fixing the set bonuses? i mean there are items used by both arch types in PoW and they can't get a set bonus! its being a bit annoying when first you allow us to use any mage/priest jewelry then try and seperate it again with set bonuses!

[hert]

agree with sig. since priest/mage and fighter/scout items are shared, cant they just combine the bonuses? the fighter bonuses are so useless it doesnt really matter, but still, if it were like somethign that both used, it would be nice. for example, like 3-5 CB, reuse, and ability mod on the fighter/scout stuff or something and whatever on the mage/preist. more would be nice, because with how inflated gear is now compared to when the set bonuses came out, theyre pretty trivival atm.

[Drumstix]

Why is it so hard for the team to realize and communicate the fact that a majority of the players despise itemzation currently, and that these "addtions" aren't really adding anything. You can't just keep adding new items and expect us to ignore the fact that so many items are still undesirable...

[Tigerr]

Lyndro, Thank you for the response. Only thing is, we would like to know if the red slots will be on the weps + charms as well... I have seen some charms, 90% of them have the red slot that was promised so it should be good. Also, please lets not start this discussion in this thread, drunder HM is exactly where it is supposed to be difficulty wise, for the people that enjoy the scenery, there is easy mode.. You want gear?. hit up challenge. The fights are scripted and hard.... thats the way I prefer them over the insanely easy facerollable skyshrine stuff. Remember when the casuals whined and whined until they got the same gear as raiders by grinding faction, and even THEN i've seen some posts regarding faction grind being too hard. DEVS.. DO NOT TOUCH DRUNDER DIFFICULTY... IT IS PERFECT THE WAY IT IS. It is hard because it is suppposed to be... right now, there are 2 raid zones that are doable with 2 groups of CASUALS ( I was in a PUG raid with my alt other night )... Drunder HARDMODE (its hard lawl) is the only place where I can go and not just auto attack and win phAtlewtz. It used to be pretty rough at lvl 90... With lvl 92 and all the gear you get from skyshrine, if you are complaining about the scripts from Drunder, I dont even know what to tell you. Underdepths x4 is extremely easy, with maybe 2 fights that require strats. If you lower difficulty, there would be NO reason to even upgrade the gear rofl. It has gotten pretty easy with lvl 92 and the skyshrine raid gear, do NOT tone it down.... Just pop in the redslots that are missing and thats IT. There are some minor drops that MIGHT need to be changed etc, and some stuff that is still broken but.... dont even touch it... we have all seen what you guys did with the fighter "addition" and the "foci" window... (Nerfing most everyone and adding pointless stuff in)... Leave it like it is please.

[Daalilama]

I'm hoping the wardrapes will be left in on endboss loottables...

[Irgun]

Can we have a merchant on test where we could actually look at new stuff? Not going to raid Drunder HM on test just to see and comment on stuff......

[Suffo]

Remember to put red slots on POW gear as well

[Alaska]

Irgin@Valor wrote:

Can we have a merchant on test where we could actually look at new stuff? Not going to raid Drunder HM on test just to see and comment on stuff......

I don't see why SoE does not use the buffer bot to display items like this one test. Not only would it allow for items to be adjusted on a basic stat level with player feedback but also when people are able to equip it and go run around using it we can test to make sure procs are working as intended. Critting, not critting, giving the correct stats, AoE procs are not accidentally hitting at a 20m range when it's suppose to be 10m. It may save alot of time and dev resources not having to patch these things on live one or two at a time as guilds start collecting up this armor. Just a thought..

[Sigmaz01]

Fix set bonuses in PoW and HM drunder and add them to HM SS items as well...

Put back red slots on HM drunder gear and PoW gear and bam people will be happy!

also if you plan to make superior mending/blasting runes useless i suggest giving people  their crafting materials back or something unless you finally make procs useful again.

[Yimway]

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Red slots will be going on the new belts and cloaks. We'll take a look at some of the other concerns from the thread, no promises one way or the other, but the slots will be on the new items.

Ommission of the charms is disturbing.

[Daalilama]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Red slots will be going on the new belts and cloaks. We'll take a look at some of the other concerns from the thread, no promises one way or the other, but the slots will be on the new items.

Ommission of the charms is disturbing.

That would be an intentional omission...I guess its now garbage skyshrine procs for all....cant tell ya how many times during hm pulls I just say to myself "damm this hard mode mob...if only my three 110 stat procs would go off I could kill this mob" then of course I remember that the lame skyshrine procs dont stack first off and that lame stat bump procs are meaningless...(/sarcasim off)

[Yimway]

Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Red slots will be going on the new belts and cloaks. We'll take a look at some of the other concerns from the thread, no promises one way or the other, but the slots will be on the new items.

Ommission of the charms is disturbing.

That would be an intentional omission...I guess its now garbage skyshrine procs for all....cant tell ya how many times during hm pulls I just say to myself "damm this hard mode mob...if only my three 110 stat procs would go off I could kill this mob" then of course I remember that the lame skyshrine procs dont stack first off and that lame stat bump procs are meaningless...(/sarcasim off)

I'm just glad I already have my drunder HM red slot charms before this nerf.

So sorry to everyone that comes along after and only has 2 slots available for warrunes.

And while the current drunder HM have less stats than my SS EM charms, the ability to put an actual useful proc on them far outweighs the difference in stats.

I want to believe we'll start seeing some good procs on PoW items soon as a result of all this, but I might be overly optomistic on this one.