Ideal Mage group?

AntitheistPOV · 07-09-2012, 08:00 PM

I'm trying to figure out what an ideal mage group for running 6man stuff would look like in terms of buffs, etc. So far I've come up with Shadowknight, Fury, Defiler, Illusionist, Troubador, Warlock.

Would this group be missing any important buffs? I'm torn between Inquisitor and Defiler. Inq's seem to have some nice buffs, but people keep telling me wards are overpowered. Any tips?

Cheers!

alaplayer · 07-09-2012, 08:56 PM

Not a bad group setup there, no need for 2 healers really none of the heroic content warrants 2, and the challenge mode stuff can be done with a Inq solo healing, though the one I speak of is far above average, bring an assassin or swashy into that and it is more win IMO.

Chronus1 · 07-09-2012, 09:55 PM

Monk, illy, troub, warlock, conj, inq for 6 man content.

Monk can deal with anything that just happens to pop up relatively easily and gains a lot from having dragonfire timewarped as well as the attack speed courtesy of the illy into crit bonus and not just overcap flurry. I do not believe either crusader can tank all of the current 6 man content in the game without being on a complete next level of not needing the loot from the zone, however this being said if you're not going for the hardest hardmode stuff they'd be totally viable.

The warlock and conj combo could be switched for wizard and necro (necro/lock would take ut, wiz/conj TC). Elemental toxicity is just too great a buff to miss out on in my opinion so it would kind of come down to stoneskins vs rez and the skill/gear of the players.

Illy and troub are essential in a mage built group.

Inq solo heal is for more dps, fanatascism is a great buff along with the possible fixes and saves that equilibrium (the heroic endline) brings is imensely useful. However though I have never seen one capable of solo healing a group like this on particular tough hardmode heroic content a fury would bring a superior buff package along with the Tshell etc. Having a shaman solo heal would be fine until particularly hard encounters where the lack of group curing would be a downer and taking 2 healers is a big loss in dps.

Bringing in an assassin would bring no merit to the group in my opinion as the monk should have no issue with aggro with the bard and enchanter there. A swashbuckler though useful would be hogging IA and other useful melee buffs from the monk and troubador while providing great aoe debuffs, problem is with the classes there and say a few Quel'ule cocktails, you're going to be capped on debuffs pretty quickly (is it about 4.9k these days?).

Laenai · 07-09-2012, 10:01 PM

Drop the defiler for either a mystic or a beastlord.

AntitheistPOV · 07-09-2012, 10:39 PM

Chronus1 wrote:

Monk, illy, troub, warlock, conj, inq for 6 man content

Would swapping that Conjuror for the Fury be that big a loss in DPS? The fury would be pretty much full time DPSing with maybe a few spot heals now and then. If it was say - Monk, Illusionist, Warlock, Troubador, Fury, Inquisitor?

Reason I ask is I'm planning to run this group with a friend of mine (each of us 3boxing) and we both want access to a healer each for when we're "solo-ing". Would stuff still be do-able with 2 healers?

The only reason I picked Shadowknight over Monk is because of the spell damage buff they get, I thought that would be the best buff for a mage group. I can't see any Monk spells on the wiki that helps casters?

alaplayer · 07-09-2012, 11:26 PM

The SK would be the best of the tanks for a caster group, and a necro or Conjy is going to be great in place of the second healer, an assassin or swashy would be fine too, overall DPS would be somewhat lower not a tremendous amount. My main is a lock and have raided on it every expansion the swash or sin suggestion had nothing to do with hate issues, in a raid setting I'd always take the conjy/necro as a single group I'd prefer the sin or swashy.

AntitheistPOV · 07-10-2012, 01:29 AM

So, is it a huge difference swapping the Conjurer for a Fury? We really wanted 2 healers. I can't see what a Conjurer brings to the group aside from a little bit more DPS?

And people are giving conflicting advice. One says Shadowknights can't tank hard stuff and one says they're better thank Monk :O

Arielle Nightshade · 07-10-2012, 05:29 PM

AntitheistPOV wrote:

So, is it a huge difference swapping the Conjurer for a Fury? We really wanted 2 healers. I can't see what a Conjurer brings to the group aside from a little bit more DPS?
And people are giving conflicting advice. One says Shadowknights can't tank hard stuff and one says they're better thank Monk :O

A Fury has INT and casting buffs so they are very good for a mage. Depending on the Fury, they can do some decent DPS, as well. If you want 2 healers that would be a good choice to swap the conjuror for.

As to Monk or SK - they are both good in different ways. A LOT depends on the person behind the toon, all other things being equal, as well as the content you are doing, IMO.

alaplayer · 07-10-2012, 06:07 PM

This is just an impossible question to answer, is there a best? Well yes there will be one where the buffs are where they all need to be, OTOH few will ever agree because of certain nuances and personal preferences and as the poster before me said how well the person playing the toon is.

Drop the fury for the Conjy and keep the Inq, the Inq is IMO going to solo heal better but there are some very good furys out there and some so-so inqs where the fury is going to be your better choice, the Inq on a similar skilled player in my experiences is the healer that I want.

Conjy brings stoneskins, DPS and some great temp buffs, the Swashy debuffs and good AOE damage.

The fact is the Skyshrine content is so easy, even the challenge mode that it really doesn't matter what the group setup is it can be cleared.

3 zones EM in under 30 minutes and can finish the HM versions before they can be reset, great way for farming white shards.

AntitheistPOV · 07-11-2012, 08:00 AM

alaplayer wrote:

The fact is the Skyshrine content is so easy, even the challenge mode that it really doesn't matter what the group setup is it can be cleared.

That's basically what I wanted to know. I didn't want specifics, just whether or not the minor DPS difference between a swapping a Conjurror for Fury (as a back-up healer, would most likely be full time DPS) would "break" the group and make it unable to clear harder 6man content.

For example, someone commented . . .

I do not believe either crusader can tank all of the current 6 man content in the game without being on a complete next level of not needing the loot from the zone

. . . makes it sound like if you don't pick exactly the right group composition you won't be able to clear stuff.

akin99 · 07-11-2012, 11:21 AM

The upcoming Fighter changes are at least to some degree nerf the Monk-Bruiser class. How much is still a bit of an unknown.

If the changes on test go live I would Say go with a guardian for pure tankage, but if you really plan on running with 2 healers a SK would be fine.

I would also say as a Multi boxerI would take a Chain healer. The wards can be cast pre combat you dont have to switch screens quite as much as you do with a leather healer and the Hots.

AntitheistPOV · 07-11-2012, 12:26 PM

akin99 wrote:

The upcoming Fighter changes are at least to some degree nerf the Monk-Bruiser class

Yeah, I don't generally go out of my way to play the flavor of the moment OP class, but there's a difference between not being OP and flat out not being able to tank certain content unless you outgear it heavily. I'd prefer to play an SK over a Monk, but if that statement was accurate it'd seem silly to start a tank that can't tank everything.

daray · 07-11-2012, 08:37 PM

For an offensive heroic mage-based group, you may wish to try SK, Inquis, Troub, Illy, Warlock, Wizard/Summoner. If you really need the 2nd healer for harder stuff (as a more defensive option), then I'd probably swap the 2nd mage dps (or possibly even the illy) for a mystic.

Shotneedle · 07-12-2012, 06:12 AM

Paladin, Illy, Troub, Wizard/Conj(TC), Inq, SK w/ Recklessness+Amends(UT).

Come at me bro.

Chronus1 · 07-12-2012, 10:24 AM

alaplayer wrote:

The fact is the Skyshrine content is so easy, even the challenge mode that it really doesn't matter what the group setup is it can be cleared.

Am now sad coz bad and can't finish DP hard mode

@Buffrat That would be pretty awseome actually.

AntitheistPOV · 07-12-2012, 02:37 PM

Started out confused about which DPS/Healers to play, then once that was relatively settled the thread has made me unsure which tank to go with

SK has group 5% spell damage and proc buffs. Monk has 14.x spell haste. Seems to me the spell haste would equate to more DPS than 5% damage?

Leaning towards Monk, since people keep saying they have better survivability and cooldowns.

Monk, Troubador, Illusionist, Warlock, Fury, Inquisitor?!

Cheers for all the advice peoples!

PS,

Here' sa random question. The Warlock buff Shroud of Bertoxxulous, does the threat caused by the procs from this buff apply to the target of the buff or to the Warlock?

Arielle Nightshade · 07-12-2012, 03:10 PM

AntitheistPOV wrote:

Monk, Troubador, Illusionist, Warlock, Fury, Inquisitor?

That group is stacked really nicely for the Warlock. As to your tank question - it depends on the person behind the toon at this point (till the changes...then it still does, but in a different way).

You might audition a few different kinds of tanks and see what you think. I want to try Buffrat's setup...unconventional but ..dang.

AntitheistPOV · 07-12-2012, 03:32 PM

Arielle Nightshade wrote:
That group is stacked really nicely for the Warlock. As to your tank question - it depends on the person behind the toon at this point (till the changes...then it still does, but in a different way).
You might audition a few different kinds of tanks and see what you think. I want to try Buffrat's setup...unconventional but ..dang.

My problem is, I'm an obsessive compulsive min/maxer. This game is too complicated to pick up all the nuances without playing it for a while for myself, so I'm probably going to end up rerolling no matter what I start with.

I think I'll go with the Monk. I like the idea of having extra active cooldowns and I feel like their group casting speed buff would be more valuable than 5% spell damage from the SK.

07-09-2012, 09:55 PM	#3
Chronus1 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 253	Monk, illy, troub, warlock, conj, inq for 6 man content. Monk can deal with anything that just happens to pop up relatively easily and gains a lot from having dragonfire timewarped as well as the attack speed courtesy of the illy into crit bonus and not just overcap flurry. I do not believe either crusader can tank all of the current 6 man content in the game without being on a complete next level of not needing the loot from the zone, however this being said if you're not going for the hardest hardmode stuff they'd be totally viable. The warlock and conj combo could be switched for wizard and necro (necro/lock would take ut, wiz/conj TC). Elemental toxicity is just too great a buff to miss out on in my opinion so it would kind of come down to stoneskins vs rez and the skill/gear of the players. Illy and troub are essential in a mage built group. Inq solo heal is for more dps, fanatascism is a great buff along with the possible fixes and saves that equilibrium (the heroic endline) brings is imensely useful. However though I have never seen one capable of solo healing a group like this on particular tough hardmode heroic content a fury would bring a superior buff package along with the Tshell etc. Having a shaman solo heal would be fine until particularly hard encounters where the lack of group curing would be a downer and taking 2 healers is a big loss in dps. Bringing in an assassin would bring no merit to the group in my opinion as the monk should have no issue with aggro with the bard and enchanter there. A swashbuckler though useful would be hogging IA and other useful melee buffs from the monk and troubador while providing great aoe debuffs, problem is with the classes there and say a few Quel'ule cocktails, you're going to be capped on debuffs pretty quickly (is it about 4.9k these days?). __________________

07-09-2012, 10:01 PM	#4
Laenai Server: Oasis Guild: Tyranny Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 634	Drop the defiler for either a mystic or a beastlord. __________________

07-09-2012, 10:39 PM	#5
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	Chronus1 wrote: Monk, illy, troub, warlock, conj, inq for 6 man content Would swapping that Conjuror for the Fury be that big a loss in DPS? The fury would be pretty much full time DPSing with maybe a few spot heals now and then. If it was say - Monk, Illusionist, Warlock, Troubador, Fury, Inquisitor? Reason I ask is I'm planning to run this group with a friend of mine (each of us 3boxing) and we both want access to a healer each for when we're "solo-ing". Would stuff still be do-able with 2 healers? The only reason I picked Shadowknight over Monk is because of the spell damage buff they get, I thought that would be the best buff for a mage group. I can't see any Monk spells on the wiki that helps casters?

07-10-2012, 05:29 PM	#8
Arielle Nightshade Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,727	AntitheistPOV wrote: So, is it a huge difference swapping the Conjurer for a Fury? We really wanted 2 healers. I can't see what a Conjurer brings to the group aside from a little bit more DPS? And people are giving conflicting advice. One says Shadowknights can't tank hard stuff and one says they're better thank Monk :O A Fury has INT and casting buffs so they are very good for a mage. Depending on the Fury, they can do some decent DPS, as well. If you want 2 healers that would be a good choice to swap the conjuror for. As to Monk or SK - they are both good in different ways. A LOT depends on the person behind the toon, all other things being equal, as well as the content you are doing, IMO.

07-11-2012, 08:00 AM	#10
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	alaplayer wrote: The fact is the Skyshrine content is so easy, even the challenge mode that it really doesn't matter what the group setup is it can be cleared. That's basically what I wanted to know. I didn't want specifics, just whether or not the minor DPS difference between a swapping a Conjurror for Fury (as a back-up healer, would most likely be full time DPS) would "break" the group and make it unable to clear harder 6man content. For example, someone commented . . . I do not believe either crusader can tank all of the current 6 man content in the game without being on a complete next level of not needing the loot from the zone . . . makes it sound like if you don't pick exactly the right group composition you won't be able to clear stuff.

07-09-2012, 08:00 PM	#1
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	I'm trying to figure out what an ideal mage group for running 6man stuff would look like in terms of buffs, etc. So far I've come up with Shadowknight, Fury, Defiler, Illusionist, Troubador, Warlock. Would this group be missing any important buffs? I'm torn between Inquisitor and Defiler. Inq's seem to have some nice buffs, but people keep telling me wards are overpowered. Any tips? Cheers!

07-09-2012, 08:56 PM	#2
alaplayer Elder Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 173	Not a bad group setup there, no need for 2 healers really none of the heroic content warrants 2, and the challenge mode stuff can be done with a Inq solo healing, though the one I speak of is far above average, bring an assassin or swashy into that and it is more win IMO.

07-09-2012, 11:26 PM	#6
alaplayer Elder Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 173	The SK would be the best of the tanks for a caster group, and a necro or Conjy is going to be great in place of the second healer, an assassin or swashy would be fine too, overall DPS would be somewhat lower not a tremendous amount. My main is a lock and have raided on it every expansion the swash or sin suggestion had nothing to do with hate issues, in a raid setting I'd always take the conjy/necro as a single group I'd prefer the sin or swashy.

07-10-2012, 01:29 AM	#7
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	So, is it a huge difference swapping the Conjurer for a Fury? We really wanted 2 healers. I can't see what a Conjurer brings to the group aside from a little bit more DPS? And people are giving conflicting advice. One says Shadowknights can't tank hard stuff and one says they're better thank Monk :O

07-10-2012, 06:07 PM	#9
alaplayer Elder Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 173	This is just an impossible question to answer, is there a best? Well yes there will be one where the buffs are where they all need to be, OTOH few will ever agree because of certain nuances and personal preferences and as the poster before me said how well the person playing the toon is. Drop the fury for the Conjy and keep the Inq, the Inq is IMO going to solo heal better but there are some very good furys out there and some so-so inqs where the fury is going to be your better choice, the Inq on a similar skilled player in my experiences is the healer that I want. Conjy brings stoneskins, DPS and some great temp buffs, the Swashy debuffs and good AOE damage. The fact is the Skyshrine content is so easy, even the challenge mode that it really doesn't matter what the group setup is it can be cleared. 3 zones EM in under 30 minutes and can finish the HM versions before they can be reset, great way for farming white shards.

07-11-2012, 11:21 AM	#11
akin99 Lord Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 60	The upcoming Fighter changes are at least to some degree nerf the Monk-Bruiser class. How much is still a bit of an unknown. If the changes on test go live I would Say go with a guardian for pure tankage, but if you really plan on running with 2 healers a SK would be fine. I would also say as a Multi boxerI would take a Chain healer. The wards can be cast pre combat you dont have to switch screens quite as much as you do with a leather healer and the Hots.

07-11-2012, 12:26 PM	#12
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	akin99 wrote: The upcoming Fighter changes are at least to some degree nerf the Monk-Bruiser class Yeah, I don't generally go out of my way to play the flavor of the moment OP class, but there's a difference between not being OP and flat out not being able to tank certain content unless you outgear it heavily. I'd prefer to play an SK over a Monk, but if that statement was accurate it'd seem silly to start a tank that can't tank everything.

07-11-2012, 08:37 PM	#13
daray Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 371	For an offensive heroic mage-based group, you may wish to try SK, Inquis, Troub, Illy, Warlock, Wizard/Summoner. If you really need the 2nd healer for harder stuff (as a more defensive option), then I'd probably swap the 2nd mage dps (or possibly even the illy) for a mystic.

07-12-2012, 06:12 AM	#14
Shotneedle Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 695	Paladin, Illy, Troub, Wizard/Conj(TC), Inq, SK w/ Recklessness+Amends(UT). Come at me bro. __________________ Buffratx - 92 Beastlord - AB Buffrat - 92 Troubador - AB Arbitrat - 92 Berserker - AB Guarddog - 92 Warden - AB

07-12-2012, 10:24 AM	#15
Chronus1 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 253	alaplayer wrote: The fact is the Skyshrine content is so easy, even the challenge mode that it really doesn't matter what the group setup is it can be cleared. Am now sad coz bad and can't finish DP hard mode @Buffrat That would be pretty awseome actually. __________________

07-12-2012, 02:37 PM	#16
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	Started out confused about which DPS/Healers to play, then once that was relatively settled the thread has made me unsure which tank to go with SK has group 5% spell damage and proc buffs. Monk has 14.x spell haste. Seems to me the spell haste would equate to more DPS than 5% damage? Leaning towards Monk, since people keep saying they have better survivability and cooldowns. Monk, Troubador, Illusionist, Warlock, Fury, Inquisitor?! Cheers for all the advice peoples! PS, Here' sa random question. The Warlock buff Shroud of Bertoxxulous, does the threat caused by the procs from this buff apply to the target of the buff or to the Warlock?

07-12-2012, 03:10 PM	#17
Arielle Nightshade Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,727	AntitheistPOV wrote: Monk, Troubador, Illusionist, Warlock, Fury, Inquisitor? That group is stacked really nicely for the Warlock. As to your tank question - it depends on the person behind the toon at this point (till the changes...then it still does, but in a different way). You might audition a few different kinds of tanks and see what you think. I want to try Buffrat's setup...unconventional but ..dang.

07-12-2012, 03:32 PM	#18
AntitheistPOV Scholar Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19	Arielle Nightshade wrote: That group is stacked really nicely for the Warlock. As to your tank question - it depends on the person behind the toon at this point (till the changes...then it still does, but in a different way). You might audition a few different kinds of tanks and see what you think. I want to try Buffrat's setup...unconventional but ..dang. My problem is, I'm an obsessive compulsive min/maxer. This game is too complicated to pick up all the nuances without playing it for a while for myself, so I'm probably going to end up rerolling no matter what I start with. I think I'll go with the Monk. I like the idea of having extra active cooldowns and I feel like their group casting speed buff would be more valuable than 5% spell damage from the SK.