Please Remove the 280AA Requirement to go to 92!

[Yimway]

SpineDoc wrote:

As one of the people who came down hard on the OP I must say I've changed my opinion on this matter.  I have several level 92/320 toons, I'm a regular raider, I've played since the release of the game and I feel as if I have played every single iota of content this game has and know the ins and outs of most classes very well. 

Yeap,  I changed tunes on this as well and got flamed for it.

The concept isn't bad, but the implementation is aweful and it should be removed until the entire player experience is adjusted.

[LadyMist]

I think its great that they don't let people skip to the end anymore. lol imagine a bunch of 92/150 aa ppl running around making our ud and ss groups suck.

I agree with alot of the posters a big fat NO to this

I have less time to play this game than 98% of the player base and i can get those aa's just as easilly. this reminds me of that thread of the guy wanting to start at lvl 20

[Shadeyblades]

Dumbest Ideah Ever, No

[Alenna]

One wonders if the last 3 or 4 toons looked at when this OP was made. Then maybe they would understand it wasn ot lazyness or call it a dumb idea but understand the frustration of someone suddenly hit with a change in game that created a road block to improving their characters.

No I do not agree with the OP but I understand the frustration as I did have a toon that was hit by this change and yes I just buckled down and got the AAs and have now changed my strategy in leveling my toons.

I have some questions of all of you who are so into making such ad homenium remark like lazy, scrubs who don't want to work on their characters.

1. have you been playing since Day one or even beta

a. If so what was your reaction to the sudden addition of AAs. When you had toons at or near end level? I Know what mine would have been(yes I was lucky I came in after the AA system was implemented).

2. Were you one of those who told others to get to end level and then worry about getting your AAs?

a. If you were what will be your advice now? I know what mine is going to be.

And as for those who cry elitism well maybe you should do a little reading of older threads on other subjects before you point the finger at those who call you scrubs. and maybe see that they might have a point about the way the game went when devs listened to folks who said things were to hard.

just some food for thought here. Before this thread continues to digress into a elitism/scrub fight

For those of you who in disagreement or agreement kept the tone to stating your reason for wanting or not wanting it to go back to the way it was Thank you.  Reading those posts gave me the information to decide on my own if this change was good or not. I'm with Atan good idea not so good implemetation of it. Although the devs did try to lessin the pain. What I'm not with is the constant ad homenium from both sides and calling others elitiest and scrub just becuase you disagree with their view. so Before you post ask yourself this. am I giving a reason why I disagree or agree or am I just being a name calling Troll. if it is the later don't post.

[Starman]

Requiring 280AAs is a terrible idea. I have 180 on my level 90 and I'm stuck. I've never been stuck like this in an MMO, ever. I don't group much, I solo a lot. According to EQ's own site:

Q: What are the pre-requisites to do the adventure (solo/group/raid) content in Game Update 63?

A: You must be level 90 and have the Destiny of Velious expansion flagged on your account. To level past level 90, you must have 280 AA points. Due to the AA curve adjustment, as long as you login with at least 248 AAs, you will get dinged to 280 AAs! NOTE: The Age of Discovery expansion is required for some features.

So I have to have 280AAs to SOLO? Sorry, no, I just want to level to 92, then decide if I want to group. If I do, then I'll work on getting the 280AAs, but to restrict solo play is wrong.

[TheSpin]

Starman wrote:

Requiring 280AAs is a terrible idea. I have 180 on my level 90 and I'm stuck. I've never been stuck like this in an MMO, ever. I don't group much, I solo a lot. According to EQ's own site:

Q: What are the pre-requisites to do the adventure (solo/group/raid) content in Game Update 63?

A: You must be level 90 and have the Destiny of Velious expansion flagged on your account. To level past level 90, you must have 280 AA points. Due to the AA curve adjustment, as long as you login with at least 248 AAs, you will get dinged to 280 AAs! NOTE: The Age of Discovery expansion is required for some features.

So I have to have 280AAs to SOLO? Sorry, no, I just want to level to 92, then decide if I want to group. If I do, then I'll work on getting the 280AAs, but to restrict solo play is wrong.

I get what you're saying, but on the other extreme, my level 37 toon (who hasn't even started questing in level 30 zones like Enchanted Lands or Zek yet) is sitting at about 148 AA.

I'm sure there's plenty of stuff for you to do to help you get the last AA you need.  I know not everybody wants to play the way I have and actually finish all of the quests in a zone before moving on, but you also can't expect to just force your way to 92 either.

[Starman]

TheSpin wrote:

Starman wrote:

Requiring 280AAs is a terrible idea. I have 180 on my level 90 and I'm stuck. I've never been stuck like this in an MMO, ever. I don't group much, I solo a lot. According to EQ's own site:

Q: What are the pre-requisites to do the adventure (solo/group/raid) content in Game Update 63?

A: You must be level 90 and have the Destiny of Velious expansion flagged on your account. To level past level 90, you must have 280 AA points. Due to the AA curve adjustment, as long as you login with at least 248 AAs, you will get dinged to 280 AAs! NOTE: The Age of Discovery expansion is required for some features.

So I have to have 280AAs to SOLO? Sorry, no, I just want to level to 92, then decide if I want to group. If I do, then I'll work on getting the 280AAs, but to restrict solo play is wrong.

I get what you're saying, but on the other extreme, my level 37 toon (who hasn't even started questing in level 30 zones like Enchanted Lands or Zek yet) is sitting at about 148 AA.

I'm sure there's plenty of stuff for you to do to help you get the last AA you need.  I know not everybody wants to play the way I have and actually finish all of the quests in a zone before moving on, but you also can't expect to just force your way to 92 either.

I don't want to be stuck at 90. What's the point of a level system if they're going to require AAs to progress?

[Yimway]

Starman wrote:

I don't want to be stuck at 90. What's the point of a level system if they're going to require AAs to progress?

This is a perfect illustration of my point.   Since this is arbitrarily implemented so late into the game, players are confused and irritated by it. 

I assure you new people will quit this game going forward as a result of how this was implemented.

[Koleg]

Starman wrote:

Requiring 280AAs is a terrible idea. I have 180 on my level 90 and I'm stuck. I've never been stuck like this in an MMO, ever. I don't group much, I solo a lot. According to EQ's own site:

Q: What are the pre-requisites to do the adventure (solo/group/raid) content in Game Update 63?

A: You must be level 90 and have the Destiny of Velious expansion flagged on your account. To level past level 90, you must have 280 AA points. Due to the AA curve adjustment, as long as you login with at least 248 AAs, you will get dinged to 280 AAs! NOTE: The Age of Discovery expansion is required for some features.

So I have to have 280AAs to SOLO? Sorry, no, I just want to level to 92, then decide if I want to group. If I do, then I'll work on getting the 280AAs, but to restrict solo play is wrong.

You're not stuck, you have 100 AA to work on then you have 2 levels to work on then you have 50 more AA to work on ... then and only then will be invited to my group/raid if that's what you decided you wanted to do.

BTW, you can solo (or Group) ANYTHING you like except for 1 stink'n zone.  Go for it with all the underpowered 180 AA toons you like.  You cannot get away from the fact that 180<280<320.  Your toon is too weak to compete with other people that didn't ignore the obvious.   Only restrictions are self-inflicted.

[yohann koldheart]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Starman wrote:

Requiring 280AAs is a terrible idea. I have 180 on my level 90 and I'm stuck. I've never been stuck like this in an MMO, ever. I don't group much, I solo a lot. According to EQ's own site:

Q: What are the pre-requisites to do the adventure (solo/group/raid) content in Game Update 63?

A: You must be level 90 and have the Destiny of Velious expansion flagged on your account. To level past level 90, you must have 280 AA points. Due to the AA curve adjustment, as long as you login with at least 248 AAs, you will get dinged to 280 AAs! NOTE: The Age of Discovery expansion is required for some features.

So I have to have 280AAs to SOLO? Sorry, no, I just want to level to 92, then decide if I want to group. If I do, then I'll work on getting the 280AAs, but to restrict solo play is wrong.

You're not stuck, you have 100 AA to work on then you have 2 levels to work on then you have 50 more AA to work on ... then and only then will be invited to my group/raid if that's what you decided you wanted to do.

BTW, you can solo (or Group) ANYTHING you like except for 1 stink'n zone.  Go for it with all the underpowered 180 AA toons you like.  You cannot get away from the fact that 180<280<320.  Your toon is too weak to compete with other people that didn't ignore the obvious.   Only restrictions are self-inflicted.

this ^

your not stuck, ok all you like to do is solo thats fine.

there is 1 solo overland zone with gu 63 and thats not enough content to get you to 92 so youll be back doing the old stuff anyways , just grind the aa's. aa's are easy to gind and come fast.

and yes i know there are 3 ss solo instances, but if you only have 190 aa's and try them you will get face rolled on the easiest one then be here making posts about them being to hard and they need nerfed.

[Finora]

Starman wrote:

TheSpin wrote:

Starman wrote:

Requiring 280AAs is a terrible idea. I have 180 on my level 90 and I'm stuck. I've never been stuck like this in an MMO, ever. I don't group much, I solo a lot. According to EQ's own site:

Q: What are the pre-requisites to do the adventure (solo/group/raid) content in Game Update 63?

A: You must be level 90 and have the Destiny of Velious expansion flagged on your account. To level past level 90, you must have 280 AA points. Due to the AA curve adjustment, as long as you login with at least 248 AAs, you will get dinged to 280 AAs! NOTE: The Age of Discovery expansion is required for some features.

So I have to have 280AAs to SOLO? Sorry, no, I just want to level to 92, then decide if I want to group. If I do, then I'll work on getting the 280AAs, but to restrict solo play is wrong.

I get what you're saying, but on the other extreme, my level 37 toon (who hasn't even started questing in level 30 zones like Enchanted Lands or Zek yet) is sitting at about 148 AA.

I'm sure there's plenty of stuff for you to do to help you get the last AA you need.  I know not everybody wants to play the way I have and actually finish all of the quests in a zone before moving on, but you also can't expect to just force your way to 92 either.

I don't want to be stuck at 90. What's the point of a level system if they're going to require AAs to progress?

AA's are part of leveling. They are a big part of the power of your character. And I still think the cap was a good idea. I was sitting at level cap with in the neighborhood of 1000 quests completed when AA's arrived.  The only thing I was disappointed about is I thought I was going to miss out on all the discovery AA for all the places I'd already been. There was more than enough content added to get to level & aa cap in that next expansion. Same for most of the expansions that have come after. If one wanted it was not hard to cap out before the next expansion rolled around, even playing semi casually & crafting a lot.

Now, personally, I've never been a fan of the "get to level cap as fast as possible, fill in the rest later" mentality. Just not my style. I've always found it better & more fun to gain aa's & levels.

And no, you don't have to have 280 aa's to solo.  That's a bit of a ridiculous statement.  You just need 280 aa's to progress further in the leveling curve. Until you hit the 280 to level up you will continue to get the aa for everything you do. You can solo to your hearts content, you can even run around and do most of the overland quests in the Withered Lands at 90 and youl'l receive aaxp for every bit of it. You certainly don't have to be 92 to start doing the daily solo quests in Skyshrine either. Doing those is where my main actually did finally ding up to 92.

Heck, you can group before you are 92 as well, you just aren't going to be grouping in the Skyshrine zones, but those what? 3 zones are far from the only places to group up to get xp & aa.

[Koleg]

SpineDoc wrote:

You actually misunderstood my point.  You can have the slider wherever you want and the time it takes you to level will all balance evenly.  You can level up fast with little AA then grind at the end, or you can level up slow with lots of AA and the amount of time you spent doing it will be about the same, I've done it either way several times.  That's a pretty moot point.

I'm also not arguing against the 280 lock, I've said it before there does need to be some kind of check for letting people into end game group content.  My main point is that the transition from solo play to group play is very abrupt, and that jarring experience will probably turn off many players.

That is an entirely different point from any sort of AA min to advance and that though only supports one aspect of game-play, being end-game.  There is a huge amount of content where people can chose to interact regularly with other people.  Locked progression guilds, firends, people you might befriend on your "race" to level cap.

In general, I would be of the opinion, that people who race to level cap are doing it for the sole reason to group or raid once they get there.  So I would hope they already have some idea of what that entales.

You are suggesting that people that solo from 1 to 91 have no idea how to group or raid and that, to me, is just a silly thing to say.  If people solo from 1 to 91 they already know how to play their toon grouped or not.  the transistion is not that great to adjust from solo to group or raid if that person was actually playing the whole time.

Now if someone was powerleveled from 1 to 91 there certainly would be a transission, but who wants that toon groups with them anyway unless they were already a veteran of grouping and raiding to begin with.

[Elebu]

I've just resubbed after a 2 year hiatus.  I don't have DoV yet but I'm wondering; is there content in that expansion or certain unlocks unavailable to me until I grind out 280 AA?  I know level 92 isn't attainable but what else?

[TheSpin]

kidzulu wrote:

I've just resubbed after a 2 year hiatus.  I don't have DoV yet but I'm wondering; is there content in that expansion or certain unlocks unavailable to me until I grind out 280 AA?  I know level 92 isn't attainable but what else?

DOV's original release was full of content designed for level 90's.  It's only since the last GU that a second part to the expansion was released which raised the cap to 92.  There's still lots to do in DoV at 90.

[kalaria]

They honestly need to have a new AA slider setting for new players.

This setting should automatically adjust the XP distribution so that you reach level 90 and 280 AAs at the same time.Kill a bunch of names and get a pile of AA? The slider would move slightly more towards Adventure XP... not gaining discovery/name AA? The slider will slightly adjust towards AA xp.The XP and AA curves are set at discrete values so I see no reason why such a setting would be difficult to implement at all.  To slow down calculations, maybe have it re-adjust every time a character dings an adventure or AA level.

But such a setting would entirely prevent a new player from being suprised when they get to lvl 90 and find out they need to grind 100 more AAs to get to 280 AA.  It would allow for a seemless progression from lvl 90 to higher levels.

[Katz]

kalaria wrote:

They honestly need to have a new AA slider setting for new players.

This setting should automatically adjust the XP distribution so that you reach level 90 and 280 AAs at the same time.Kill a bunch of names and get a pile of AA? The slider would move slightly more towards Adventure XP... not gaining discovery/name AA? The slider will slightly adjust towards AA xp.The XP and AA curves are set at discrete values so I see no reason why such a setting would be difficult to implement at all.  To slow down calculations, maybe have it re-adjust every time a character dings an adventure or AA level.

But such a setting would entirely prevent a new player from being suprised when they get to lvl 90 and find out they need to grind 100 more AAs to get to 280 AA.  It would allow for a seemless progression from lvl 90 to higher levels.

Yes, they should.   Right now it just seems like leveling and aa points are totally disconnected and separate features.

[SpineDoc]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

You actually misunderstood my point.  You can have the slider wherever you want and the time it takes you to level will all balance evenly.  You can level up fast with little AA then grind at the end, or you can level up slow with lots of AA and the amount of time you spent doing it will be about the same, I've done it either way several times.  That's a pretty moot point.

I'm also not arguing against the 280 lock, I've said it before there does need to be some kind of check for letting people into end game group content.  My main point is that the transition from solo play to group play is very abrupt, and that jarring experience will probably turn off many players.

That is an entirely different point from any sort of AA min to advance and that though only supports one aspect of game-play, being end-game.  There is a huge amount of content where people can chose to interact regularly with other people.  Locked progression guilds, firends, people you might befriend on your "race" to level cap.

In general, I would be of the opinion, that people who race to level cap are doing it for the sole reason to group or raid once they get there.  So I would hope they already have some idea of what that entales.

You are suggesting that people that solo from 1 to 91 have no idea how to group or raid and that, to me, is just a silly thing to say.  If people solo from 1 to 91 they already know how to play their toon grouped or not.  the transistion is not that great to adjust from solo to group or raid if that person was actually playing the whole time.

Now if someone was powerleveled from 1 to 91 there certainly would be a transission, but who wants that toon groups with them anyway unless they were already a veteran of grouping and raiding to begin with.

There is a huge amount of group content pre 90, but there are not any players whatsoever playing them as real groups.  All of these zones can be soloed easily and the trouble to sit in level chat for 3 hours to get a group in death fist citadel is not worth just soloing the zone.  We aren't talking about those racing to level either.

I also definitely see many players who have no idea how to group, or may not grasp some advanced tactics needed in the harder zones.  I see it every single day.  I'm not saying its like rocket science, but when you see, on a daily basis, 90/320 toons with all master spells and fabled gear you wonder why the heck they can't keep the group alive, or maintain aggro, or do dps, or follow scripts, etc.  But it's ok because on paper they have passed all the requirements.

The population is declining, not increasing.   I wonder how many quit simply due to frustration.

[Davngr1]

i for one like the fact that the lvl 92 dirge i invite in the group has BC and maybe even DD.   leave it as it is.

[Solarax]

Grumble69 wrote:

erk48188 wrote:

I think for every one case that gets blocked like that, there are a dozen other lazy n00bs still in L70-80 gear that are getting weeded out.  This is probably in the game's better interest.

SOE has bonus weekends about every couple of months.  The AA curve has been lowered.  There's really not a good excuse about not getting an alt to 280.

I agree

we dont want an easy button and anyone that says 280 aa is effecting a raid guild obviously isnt in a very good guild

[Alvane]

Katz wrote:

kalaria wrote:

They honestly need to have a new AA slider setting for new players.....

This setting should automatically adjust the XP distribution so that you reach level 90 and 280 AAs at the same time.

Yes, they should.   Right now it just seems like leveling and aa points are totally disconnected and separate features.

Guess you are right. My newest character is almost 10% shy of lvl 68 and about 30% shy of 320AAs. That is an imbalance, ain't it? I can't even spend it all.

[shots01]

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Katz wrote:

kalaria wrote:

They honestly need to have a new AA slider setting for new players.....

This setting should automatically adjust the XP distribution so that you reach level 90 and 280 AAs at the same time.

Yes, they should.   Right now it just seems like leveling and aa points are totally disconnected and separate features.

Guess you are right. My newest character is almost 10% shy of lvl 68 and about 30% shy of 320AAs. That is an imbalance, ain't it? I can't even spend it all.

You had to have changed that slider somewhere.  My lvl 50 conjie only has 80 some odd and I even level locked her for AAs for awhile.......But then again, I was PL'd for maybe 6 levels.  Rest of it was questing.

How the hell do you have 320? potions? being powerleveled for your entire life? Being drug through dungeons? 

[Rosss]

Just set it so that you receive a set number of aa once you ding 90.  Similar to the free 10 aa you get when you hit level 10.   Set it so that you get boosted to 220 aa's at level 90.  60aa to grind is not unreasonable even with 20% vet reward and no double xp.  At 1 aa gained every 15 mins (which seemes really slow to me tbh) this is like 15 hours of grind time.  Your done in a week and change if you grind a couple hours a day..big deal.

Or boost aaxp on quests done level appropriate by like 200%.  This would encourage questing in old content.  

Either way the implementation of this gate mechanism was very poorly done.  However it has been so nice to pug with characters that are at least somewhat ready for the content.  

Fix the pathway of getting there so that it feels more connected to the leveling process, but certainly DO NOT remove the 280 gate.

[Tylia]

shots01 wrote:

You had to have changed that slider somewhere.  My lvl 50 conjie only has 80 some odd and I even level locked her for AAs for awhile.......But then again, I was PL'd for maybe 6 levels.  Rest of it was questing.

How the hell do you have 320? potions? being powerleveled for your entire life? Being drug through dungeons? 

Apparently you didn't leave her level locked long enough.  You want to shoot for a little over 3 AA points per level.  That isn't that much and is not difficult, especially at lower numbers.  I have a little pally that I just fiddle around on, killing Orcs in GFay.  She is level 12 and has 110 AA points.  Her total time played is 16 h, 12m, 57s.  Even without the 120% vet bonus I'm getting, it doesn't take long to get AA points.  I have a lvl 75 ranger that has 219 AA points.  I just recently leveled her up a few more levels so I have some points to catch up on.  It's mostly keeping a "mini" goal in mind and working to reach that goal before going on to the next one.  Your "main" goal is 280 AA points at lvl 90.  Your "mini" goals are the milestones you set for yourself along the way.

[Outkast1980]

Why the in the world should th remove the (280 AA cap to get to 91/92) ? Why? Just because you took the time to level a toon to 90 ? I have leveled toons to 90 in a single day. Just because you have a alt 90 doesn't mean he should be able to wear gear your MAIN earned. I have raided since T5. I have several 90+ toons. Lots of them are over 280AA, the one's that aren't I simply am waiting to till next AA weekend. They annouced the AA cap that was going to be in place before last AA weekend. I took the time and took 8 toons(4 on each account) to the 300aa threshold.  That's how simple it was. If you can't wait to do the same thing, or spend the same time grinding it your alt in no way deserves to just slap on gear. Why not? Because if it DID , it would meet the requirements. If it doesn't then it simply needs more done with it. Just because you can't have items on right this very second your throwing a tantrum asking for things to just be handed to you.  This game with every game update/expac/change is being dumbed down to the extreme. Access quests being removed(majority),betrayal quests becoming easier and easier, shortcuts in almost every aspect of the game, heirloom gear,  ability to buy all kinds of crap from the marketplace, leveling is beyond easy anymore, and the list goes on and on. It's easy enough as it is. I honestly , would make lots of changes to make the game HARDER again, rather then easier like they are doing.   

So in simple terms,  NO WAY SHOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO GET TO 91 WITHOUT THE 280 AA REQUIRED

[Outkast1980]

 a LVL 91/92 with very little AA is useless.  Equipping this gear your referring , without the required AA, would be like going to a job interview in a very expensive suit, but not taking the time to shower or brush your teeth.

You make look nice, but in the end.... you still fail.

[Starman]

Some of you are talking about raiding with a 92 with less than 280AAs. Ok, that's fine.

I solo. My playstyle should NOT affect a single one of you.

Also, AA points are...

wait for it....

ALTERNATE advancement points.

ALTERNATE. Not REQUIRED.

[Regolas]

Alternative does not always mean optional. In this case they are another way of advancing your characters without making it so the max (normal) level is over 400. Are they as essential as "normal" levels? In the early games design, no they're not. In the new content, they are.

[Lord Hackenslash]

Starman wrote:

Some of you are talking about raiding with a 92 with less than 280AAs. Ok, that's fine.

I solo. My playstyle should NOT affect a single one of you.

Also, AA points are...

wait for it....

ALTERNATE advancement points.

ALTERNATE. Not REQUIRED.

Your play style is fine level at the rate you like. Nothing says you have to level to 91 or 92. If you choose to do so great! the game developers set a level of achievement for every level in game.

You want to be level 1 forever turn off xp and yay you get your wish. If you choose to level to level 2 then you need to meet the level of achievement they put in place. Kill 5 mobs and yay you are level 2. You choose to coninue great! Kill 10 mobs and yay you are level 3.

You felt this was reasonable for 89 levels. Now to get to level 91 you must kill more creatures. Kill enough creatures (the developers were nice enough to move the AA bar for you in the right direction) and yay you are 91.

Nothing has changed. every level before this got harder as it increased. Now you are given an new challenge and suddenly you don't like it.

Play any way you like. level or don't level. You win!

[Drupal]

Starman wrote:

Some of you are talking about raiding with a 92 with less than 280AAs. Ok, that's fine.

I solo. My playstyle should NOT affect a single one of you.

Also, AA points are...

wait for it....

ALTERNATE advancement points.

ALTERNATE. Not REQUIRED.

You are plain wrong.

Your play style means nothing to anyone here. If all you do is solo then you don't need to go past 90.

AA have stopped being optional years ago. Sorry but you need to face the reality that without AA you're nowhere near what your class can do.

At the moment, everyone knows for sure that people over lvl 90 have the AA required to make them effective.

Bottom line, you want 91, get 280 AA. How you do it and when you do it is entirely up to you. 

[Yimway]

There are a number of things they could do to immediately make this better:

• You could allow people to continue to level but not accept group invites until they reach 280 aa.  That is a simple 'stop-gap' solution. 
• You could make their names all be an alternate color to call them out as underpowered.  So players can decide to carry them or not.  Personally, I would carry a dirge box with 200aa over a dirge merc for example.
• You could just auto ding to 280 aa when you ding level 90.  Lets face it here nearly everyone is in agreement that if you know the game the process of getting those aa is trivial, so lets just remove the timesink.  Deliver it in potion form, player can consume it or not, but then they are not road-blocked (gated).

I'm sure there are many other solutions, but throwing this gate up at the end of level progression without setting it up over the entire player experience is really a teribad design decision.

Game designers know gating players is a terrible thing to do, and that each time they place a gate in their game they run the risk of losing some players.  The way this thing is implemented, its the Brandenburg Gate of player gates in eq2.