Please Remove the 280AA Requirement to go to 92!

[Maisland]

My own main is currently sitting at level 90 with 189 AA... yet I have no issue with this requirement.  I realized a long time ago that even to do basic DoV content, that I needed more AA.  If I were not an altoholic, I expect that I would have ground out the rest of them that I need to level past 90... but I am comfortable with that.  I am in no hurry to get to end game content and have, in fact, been chrono-mentoring to do low level stuff.

[SpineDoc]

I leveled my guard from 90 to 92 over the weekend, spent about 5 hours in everyones favorite underwater zone and that was with breaks to watch the baby and stretch my legs.  After dinging 92 I had 311 AA and I kept killing since I was there and still had a xp pot active.  With the aa/xp pot I noticed I was getting about 3% AA per kill, this is in a zone where I mentor to 80 and can pretty much pull 6-8 mobs and burn them down at the same time.

It just reinforced how nuts you guys crying about having to have 280 AA are.

[Yimway]

Hai SoE,

While I agree with the principle of this change, I think you have some real issues that need to be addressed.

I've spoken to 2 people that quit the game as a result of this.  They simply got to 90 with 190ish aa and said, 'forget that' when they then found out the needed to grind 100ish aa solo in order to continue the game.

You've got to address this issue from a longer arch than just throwing a requirement at level 90.  We need warnings or requirements along the way to steer players down the right path and give an expectation to where they need to be rather than reaching 90 and getting hit with the AA sledge hammer.

I've even talked to vets who are verry passionate about this issue who also are considering quiting or simply not playing nearly as much as a result of this change.

This idea needs more time in the oven with more things done to not gate players out of the blue.

[ElectricPotato]

Ah! The "gate players out of the blue" is what rattles my chain on this.  More aa thresholds along the adventurers career would be sweet, say

Lvl 20, 30aa to proceed past

lvl 30, 50 aa to hit 31

lvl 40, 75 aa

lvl 50, 105aa

lvl 60, 140aa

lvl 70, 180aa

lvl 80, 225aa

lvl 90, 280aa****

To be fair, the slider should shift to 100% aa when you hit a threshold until you meet the aa hurdle, even on F2P and silver accounts.

***** these are arbitary numbers I made up, generally based on +25, +30,+ 35 , etc at 10 level increments.  Different level incrememnts or aa amounts, particularly if I had you get more than you can even spend at places, probably would be better, maybe based on the level ranges of zones available or something else!

[Kraeref]

Could somebody be very kind to explain what powerleveling does mean and how the one can do it? I probably sound like an idi0t with my question, but I played all my characters myself. I have only one that is 92 level now. Two others are very low. But I like to do it myself. It take long, but it's worth playing is not it? :p while leveling I got my fury to 292aa just before the ss going live. The very next day when I logged in I've got 28aa points from SOE out of courtesy. So it put me right at 320aa. At that moment I started to gain prestige points doing quests in WL. So I am wondering did others like me not get courtesy points and why? Back to power lelveling. Is it something when you have to give your account information to whoever or did I get a whole process wrong? Thanks!

[SiegaPlays]

Kraeref wrote:

Could somebody be very kind to explain what powerleveling does mean and how the one can do it? 

Some classe are better at it than others. Basically it is a higher level somewhat geared toon chronomaged to the appropriate level soloing an area, clearing out every mob in the place as they go. On their tail is one or more group members of appropriate right beneath zone threshhold level to the chronomaged powerleveller, who soaks the xp while they try not to look crosseye at the mobs.

Well, I think that is the basic concept

About the attraction for powerlevelling/OP chronomaging - fun as it is - could be interesting to add a April Fool's debuff to mentorer and chronomaged toons. Every xp gaining kill the debuff is applied for as many seconds as the level difference between the toon and the mob. Debuff stacks up to 99 and every new stack reset the timer on the full stack. Debuff lowers all stats/blue stats by 1% per stack. So moving fast through mobs in indoor zones will be a little more hazardous for powerlevellers and leave more time for normal groups to also kill content. Could make it an intelligent debuff, so it only applies in zones during time where the inhabitants has aquired a low lifetime expentancy.

[Kraeref]

Thank you for quick reply, SiegaPlays! Now I got it the reason I asked about b/c I saw a toon yesterday in ss lvl 92 adventurer and 0 lvl crafter with decent gear (some items were very decent, lol) but without any adornments attached... I guessed that it was may be powerleveled and got curious how its done

[SpineDoc]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Hai SoE,

While I agree with the principle of this change, I think you have some real issues that need to be addressed.

I've spoken to 2 people that quit the game as a result of this.  They simply got to 90 with 190ish aa and said, 'forget that' when they then found out the needed to grind 100ish aa solo in order to continue the game.

You've got to address this issue from a longer arch than just throwing a requirement at level 90.  We need warnings or requirements along the way to steer players down the right path and give an expectation to where they need to be rather than reaching 90 and getting hit with the AA sledge hammer.

I've even talked to vets who are verry passionate about this issue who also are considering quiting or simply not playing nearly as much as a result of this change.

This idea needs more time in the oven with more things done to not gate players out of the blue.

Why would someone quit over that?  It would take them a couple of hours to finish those AA off.  First they just need to grab skyshrine solo quest gear, then just choose the appropriate ROK zone pop an AA pot and kill mobs. 

Besides it sounds to me like complaining that you have to get to level 90.  "I'm going to quit because I'm level 60 and don't want to level to 90" sounds similarly confusing.  AA is part of the journey, just like levels are and you have to get through them.

[SiegaPlays]

Kraeref wrote:

Thank you for quick reply, SiegaPlays! Now I got it the reason I asked about b/c I saw a toon yesterday in ss lvl 92 adventurer and 0 lvl crafter with decent gear (some items were very decent, lol) but without any adornments attached... I guessed that it was may be powerleveled and got curious how its done

Lack of adornments could be due to the amount of mats needed all at the same time, a main would take priority and leave less for the alts to make adornments out of. So the one you saw could be a normal alt, not as good and polished as a main, but in decent gear partially due to the main.

Lvl 0 crafter could just mean a player with absolutely no love for crafting. More fun to the rest of us.

Powerlevelled toons are cornered by max level with very low play time.

[Kraeref]

Well... probably true. I should not have assumed Thanks again!

[SiegaPlays]

SpineDoc wrote:

Why would someone quit over that?  It would take them a couple of hours to finish those AA off.  First they just need to grab skyshrine solo quest gear, then just choose the appropriate ROK zone pop an AA pot and kill mobs. 

Besides it sounds to me like complaining that you have to get to level 90.  "I'm going to quit because I'm level 60 and don't want to level to 90" sounds similarly confusing.  AA is part of the journey, just like levels are and you have to get through them.

I could see a f2p gamer, recently 90 and at 190ish AAs, thinking twice about the value of their time. I do think the 50/50 is detrimental to the good business that a new lvl 90 subbing and aquiring DoV and AoD would be.

The lower level gating suggestions in this thread would guide people along, so they do not end up having to solo grind (since grouping appear to be less effective?) a lot of AAs.  It would possible enhance player experience at lower level grouping too.

[Yimway]

SpineDoc wrote:

Why would someone quit over that?  It would take them a couple of hours to finish those AA off.  First they just need to grab skyshrine solo quest gear, then just choose the appropriate ROK zone pop an AA pot and kill mobs. 

Besides it sounds to me like complaining that you have to get to level 90.  "I'm going to quit because I'm level 60 and don't want to level to 90" sounds similarly confusing.  AA is part of the journey, just like levels are and you have to get through them.

Cause as a new player, its 'not a couple of hours' to make a 100 aa.  Cause its even more tedius adnausium soloing to get to the point of actually playing your toon in cooperative gameplay.

Sony's method works if there was plenty of opportunities for these 90's to group up and do things that earned significant AA.

However, that isn't the game we have.  All the focus is at max level.

Me personally, I think they should just sell an item that dings them to 280 AA, cause the grinding isn't rewarding, interesting, or offer the slightest bit of skill building.

I'm not saying your stance on this isn't reasonable, I'm saying some game players will simply give up rather than go earn 100 AA to get level 91.  Can we really afford to lose any warm bodies?

[Regolas]

I agree with Spinedoc, If someone is looking for an excuse to quit they will find one. It's not because of the AA requirements, it's because they don't like the game that much. If you blast through this game with your crosshair on level 92 and not taking in any of it then I think the player won't have a connection to their character and won't stick around long anyway. It's that instant gratification scenario again. If you're PLing them up to raid you'll probably find that after a few weeks raiding the same mobs they'll get bored of that and quit anyway. These type of people jump from game to game looking for the instant gratification. They aren't suited to this game and won't stick around regardless. I know the type, my brother is one of them. He started playing eq1 in 1999 and introduced me to it. I played it exclusively till 2005 while he quit after 9 months and played 50+ other games instead. I introduced him to eq2, and he played for a few months then left. He may come back one day, but he'll never be a MMORPG player like I am. And as for warning people about the requirements, that's what websites and research is for. If they are interested enough in the game they will research things outside of the game to progress, just like probably everyone on here does

[SiegaPlays]

Regolas wrote:

And as for warning people about the requirements, that's what websites and research is for. If they are interested enough in the game they will research things outside of the game to progress, just like probably everyone on here does

If we disregard the fact that as a game EQ2 do not have the usual support from fansites that is not mostly outdated and outdone -- bar a few rare ones -- then you are right, people could just research their class, the game, fansites and whatnot. Something some of us learned before EQ2 beta was a sparkle in a devs eye.

Question is, now that games are more mainstream instead of a mere million pioneers anno 2000, and the competition for gamers interest is tougher, should people have to look up stuff that is not totally specialized for a specific playstyle and class?

All games has to do something to give the mainstream a comfortable ride or they loose a significant part of the audience to the games that does. I do not talk insta levels, pay 2 win or similar stuff or even entitlement or whatever degoratory words are usually used as soon as it is about controversial content outside the realm of usual.

In my experience mainstream rarely gets around to look much of anything up. They buy an entertainment and expect not to have to get extra installs like information from third parties to use it. While I would trust one of my old friends from EQ1  in 2004 to be able to jump on to their fully powerlevelled toon and play it like a pro, I would never in a million year want to group with a mainstreamer doing the same.

I am not even talking shortbus crew, just people who expect to get a complete package and would not consider the option of having to read somewhere else about basic game information as something that should be needed. Because it shouldn't. The game has to provide in a way that fits fluently into the rest of the setup - out of the blue AA gating, while much needed and totally appreciated, is not fluent.

I believe the time where games has to rely on third party fansites and out of game information making ends meet is over. If they want to make it big and keep the part of the audience that is easilly swayed by discomfort, accessibility is key. More knowledge has to be included ingame to ensure a positive experience, unless the game is totally intuitive - and it is not.

Be it by gating so people do not enter content way out of their league to the detriment of group entertainment (and telling the person why they can not enter), or asking 3 times if a person are really sure they want to betray or by showing cap/over cap information about stats on the char window. Or making normal grouping a competive option to soloing for xp, so more would do it, bringing the MMO experience to the front. 

Little things that makes the game experience more pleasant for most inexperience gamers and not really in the way for the experienced ones. It is not unbalancing the game, au contraire, it would balance grouping at all levels and soften the hard edges of having too few AAs growing up.

I got way off topic... where was I going... never mind.

[SpineDoc]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

Why would someone quit over that?  It would take them a couple of hours to finish those AA off.  First they just need to grab skyshrine solo quest gear, then just choose the appropriate ROK zone pop an AA pot and kill mobs. 

Besides it sounds to me like complaining that you have to get to level 90.  "I'm going to quit because I'm level 60 and don't want to level to 90" sounds similarly confusing.  AA is part of the journey, just like levels are and you have to get through them.

Cause as a new player, its 'not a couple of hours' to make a 100 aa.  Cause its even more tedius adnausium soloing to get to the point of actually playing your toon in cooperative gameplay.

Sony's method works if there was plenty of opportunities for these 90's to group up and do things that earned significant AA.

However, that isn't the game we have.  All the focus is at max level.

Me personally, I think they should just sell an item that dings them to 280 AA, cause the grinding isn't rewarding, interesting, or offer the slightest bit of skill building.

I'm not saying your stance on this isn't reasonable, I'm saying some game players will simply give up rather than go earn 100 AA to get level 91.  Can we really afford to lose any warm bodies?

It is a couple of hours, zone into Chelsith and that's that.  But I'll play along, so it takes a couple of days, or lets say even it takes an entire week to get to 100AA.  I just can't believe someone would quit the game over something that takes them a week to do, do we really want things handed that incredibly easy for us?

But I see that we really agree under the surface.  I agree that the grind to level and get AA is stupid in light of the entire "social" part of being a MMO is AFTER you reach 92/320.  But I think you and me come from a different time, a time when dinging a level was a large accomplishment.  Today's MMOer doesn't think like that, they actually want to solo most of the time, they appreciate how easy EQ2 is, they appreciate pay to win items on station cash, they appreciate selling loot rights to get their raid gear. This is where the trouble comes, that player who soloed his way to 92/320/masters/raid gear/etc now is thrown into a world of...gasp... playing with others, and many times this ends up in a disaster.  I'd say it seems to me we lose more players to the rude shock of being introduced to grouping than we do to a measly 100 AA.

But with that said, seriously 100AA is nothing.  I brougth up SS gear on purpose, as it's nearly as good as EM raid gear from DOV.  A couple of hours and you have a full suit and jewelry, you can buy a nice 2h on the broker for pretty cheap, etc etc.  Or if you are a decent grouper you can go right at 90 and start your access quest, both my healers started at 90 and were 92 by the time you finished, I'll bet it's a ton of AA with all the killing, disco and names.  Or you can always go the tried and true route and roll into Chelsith, 90 mentored to 80 can blow up that dungeon even if they had mastercrafted gear on.

[Seiffil]

SpineDoc wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

Why would someone quit over that?  It would take them a couple of hours to finish those AA off.  First they just need to grab skyshrine solo quest gear, then just choose the appropriate ROK zone pop an AA pot and kill mobs. 

Besides it sounds to me like complaining that you have to get to level 90.  "I'm going to quit because I'm level 60 and don't want to level to 90" sounds similarly confusing.  AA is part of the journey, just like levels are and you have to get through them.

Cause as a new player, its 'not a couple of hours' to make a 100 aa.  Cause its even more tedius adnausium soloing to get to the point of actually playing your toon in cooperative gameplay.

Sony's method works if there was plenty of opportunities for these 90's to group up and do things that earned significant AA.

However, that isn't the game we have.  All the focus is at max level.

Me personally, I think they should just sell an item that dings them to 280 AA, cause the grinding isn't rewarding, interesting, or offer the slightest bit of skill building.

I'm not saying your stance on this isn't reasonable, I'm saying some game players will simply give up rather than go earn 100 AA to get level 91.  Can we really afford to lose any warm bodies?

It is a couple of hours, zone into Chelsith and that's that.  But I'll play along, so it takes a couple of days, or lets say even it takes an entire week to get to 100AA.  I just can't believe someone would quit the game over something that takes them a week to do, do we really want things handed that incredibly easy for us?

But I see that we really agree under the surface.  I agree that the grind to level and get AA is stupid in light of the entire "social" part of being a MMO is AFTER you reach 92/320.  But I think you and me come from a different time, a time when dinging a level was a large accomplishment.  Today's MMOer doesn't think like that, they actually want to solo most of the time, they appreciate how easy EQ2 is, they appreciate pay to win items on station cash, they appreciate selling loot rights to get their raid gear. This is where the trouble comes, that player who soloed his way to 92/320/masters/raid gear/etc now is thrown into a world of...gasp... playing with others, and many times this ends up in a disaster.  I'd say it seems to me we lose more players to the rude shock of being introduced to grouping than we do to a measly 100 AA.

But with that said, seriously 100AA is nothing.  I brougth up SS gear on purpose, as it's nearly as good as EM raid gear from DOV.  A couple of hours and you have a full suit and jewelry, you can buy a nice 2h on the broker for pretty cheap, etc etc.  Or if you are a decent grouper you can go right at 90 and start your access quest, both my healers started at 90 and were 92 by the time you finished, I'll bet it's a ton of AA with all the killing, disco and names.  Or you can always go the tried and true route and roll into Chelsith, 90 mentored to 80 can blow up that dungeon even if they had mastercrafted gear on.

Some people don't want to solo, they want to be able to group, and you could probably find some people who you could group with running the original DoV instances. 

I honestly do like the 280 AA requirement, but it does throw up a barrier for those who weren't at 280 AA's yet before leveling.  This barrier likely wouldn't be a huge problem for people who prefer groups if they hadn't completely nullified DoV gear with the Skyshine or withered lands quested/dropped gear.  Now you will only get people running those because they need more yellow shards for their gear, and chances are they'll just grab a merc and go.

[Raknid]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Hai SoE,

While I agree with the principle of this change, I think you have some real issues that need to be addressed.

I've spoken to 2 people that quit the game as a result of this.  They simply got to 90 with 190ish aa and said, 'forget that' when they then found out the needed to grind 100ish aa solo in order to continue the game.

You've got to address this issue from a longer arch than just throwing a requirement at level 90.  We need warnings or requirements along the way to steer players down the right path and give an expectation to where they need to be rather than reaching 90 and getting hit with the AA sledge hammer.

I've even talked to vets who are verry passionate about this issue who also are considering quiting or simply not playing nearly as much as a result of this change.

This idea needs more time in the oven with more things done to not gate players out of the blue.

How many people do you think would have quit by now haven't because pugging and grouping are viable again at the top because of this requirement?

I other words, it's been out a month. In the month prior did you have any people leave the guild? If so, how many said because they couldn't find pugs at the top, or because grouping at the top was not enjoyable?

[Avirodar]

ElectricPotato wrote:

Ah! The "gate players out of the blue" is what rattles my chain on this.  More aa thresholds along the adventurers career would be sweet, say

Lvl 20, 30aa to proceed past

lvl 30, 50 aa to hit 31

lvl 40, 75 aa

lvl 50, 105aa

lvl 60, 140aa

lvl 70, 180aa

lvl 80, 225aa

lvl 90, 280aa****

To be fair, the slider should shift to 100% aa when you hit a threshold until you meet the aa hurdle, even on F2P and silver accounts.

***** these are arbitary numbers I made up, generally based on +25, +30,+ 35 , etc at 10 level increments.  Different level incrememnts or aa amounts, particularly if I had you get more than you can even spend at places, probably would be better, maybe based on the level ranges of zones available or something else!

No thanks.I would have no problems with ADVICE (ie: pop-up message text on dinging) being given as players level up, advising of a suggested AA target they should be at, and of the pre-requisites to pass 90.There is an AA slider that is adjustable, so players can choose what they want. I have no desire to be forced into meeting thresholds in the low level ranges. If I want to grind my adventure level to 90, then grind AAs, I should have every right to do so.

[SpineDoc]

Raknid wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Hai SoE,

While I agree with the principle of this change, I think you have some real issues that need to be addressed.

I've spoken to 2 people that quit the game as a result of this.  They simply got to 90 with 190ish aa and said, 'forget that' when they then found out the needed to grind 100ish aa solo in order to continue the game.

You've got to address this issue from a longer arch than just throwing a requirement at level 90.  We need warnings or requirements along the way to steer players down the right path and give an expectation to where they need to be rather than reaching 90 and getting hit with the AA sledge hammer.

I've even talked to vets who are verry passionate about this issue who also are considering quiting or simply not playing nearly as much as a result of this change.

This idea needs more time in the oven with more things done to not gate players out of the blue.

How many people do you think would have quit by now haven't because pugging and grouping are viable again at the top because of this requirement?

I other words, it's been out a month. In the month prior did you have any people leave the guild? If so, how many said because they couldn't find pugs at the top, or because grouping at the top was not enjoyable?

I have seen many more pugs since SS was released, I don't know if it's because of the 280 AA requirement or because the gear is so much nicer, or because the SS zones are so incredibly easy.  It's a nice change and I suspect the devs recognized their prior lack of foresight in causing a rift between the soloing game and the grouping game.  SS seems to bring it all together a bit more, it even seems to put a rational raid sequence in, although you have to ignore the mixed up gear progression which I hope they will fix.

[Gilasil]

SiegaPlays wrote:

 just people who expect to get a complete package and would not consider the option of having to read somewhere else about basic game information as something that should be needed. Because it shouldn't.

I think this is very true.  I think about all those EQ2 quests where I would have no clue whatsoever what to do if it weren't for a third party website.   Convince a dragon to give me it's blood with no other clue?  That's it?  How am I supposed to proceed with that?  Oh yes go to EQ2i and read the walkthrough.  Bzzzzt wrong answer.  Few mainstream gamers would think to do that and if they did they would consider it a huge failing on the part of SoE that they had to -- that the game was so shoddily scripted -- and they'd be right.

Find some object in a very large zone with no other clue? Please.

Luckily someone actually was persistent enough or lucky enough to stumble across how to proceed in those quests and publish it on the web but many typical gamers nowadays would just be frustrated.  Too much frustration and they quit.

I recently played Skyrim through.  While that game has a guide, you don't really need it.  Everything you need to do the quests is in the game.  Likewise, what I played of SWTOR had no need for third party guides or -- heaven forbid -- UI addons.  A guide might help you find little quests you might have overlooked, but you don't really need one to proceed all the way through the game.

I suspect that if SoE doesn't make EQ Next more self contained then EQ2 they're going to find themselves playing to a very small niche market.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I'm getting a bit far afield.  To get back to the topic I read about people saying or at least strongly implying that a couple hours in this or that dungeon of choice and you too can pick up an additional 100 AAs.  I just don't see it.

While I'm a STRONG supporter of the 280 AA requirement I have never come close to getting AAs at that rate anywhere.  My support for the 280 AA limit is based on the fact that I think people should be invested in their character, that they shouldn't be rushing to the end game, and that GETTING those 280 AAs can itself be fun. 

An RPG is all about developing your character. In the pen and paper D&D campaigns I played and referreed I can't think of a single player character which reached ~20 (more or less max level).  All characters were developing all the time.  It's what you did in an RPG. 

When you're playing an RPG AS an RPG, the 280 AA limit really isn't such a big deal.  The game is about GETTING those 280 AAs. 

If you're the kind of person who basically expects to be handed a fully developed end game character you're not interested in playing an RPG.  Go play one of the many shooters instead.  As the success of games like WoW, Skyrim, SWTOR, NWN, Dragonage and even EQ/EQ2 attest, the RPG genre is plenty popular in it's own right in both single and multiplayer forms.  SoE should stick to it.

I have no idea how you can get AAs at the rate of one every couple minutes.  I won't say it's not possible but I personally have never seen anything remotely like that (and I've spent plenty of time in places people mentioned such as Chelsith and Sebilis).  Ok, maybe I'm not doing it right, not that I"m all that interested in that kind of powerleveling.  But I haven't seen it.  For me, rapid advancement is to be closing in on 90/~300 after six months or so.  Gives me more time to savor the game. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Regolas]

Gilasil, I personally got 100AA in Sebelis over about 4 hours on a double xp weekend with vitality, 110% xp potion and 20% vet bonus (one level 90 toon). This is a ranger killing single mobs mostly. An AE plate toon would be quicker. So it would take about 8 hrs without the double xp weekend at that rate. It's not a few hours unless they have many max level toons and on double xp weekends, but it's not too bad. I used to camp a named on eq1 for longer than that.

[convict]

Another whine thread to make the game even easier, brought to you by the SoE forums. What's next?

[DamselInDistress]

convict wrote:

Another whine thread to make the game even easier, brought to you by the SoE forums. What's next?

If you have a valid opinion then by all means discuss it. Otherwise why do you feel the need to come here and whine yourself ?

[Errrorr]

Dear SoE,

Please don't remove the 280 AA Limit.

Please don't make this game any easier than it already is.

Please don't make me have to group with a 90 dirge with 70 aa.

Please ignore all my comments like usual and make all the changes anyway.

Thanks!

[DamselInDistress]

I don't really see them changing things, simply because of the 3 or 4 people who can't be bothered to play the game and 2 months from now will be playing their new flavour of the month game.

There are much better things to be done like moar SC items pls !

[SpineDoc]

Regolas wrote:

Gilasil, I personally got 100AA in Sebelis over about 4 hours on a double xp weekend with vitality, 110% xp potion and 20% vet bonus (one level 90 toon). This is a ranger killing single mobs mostly. An AE plate toon would be quicker. So it would take about 8 hrs without the double xp weekend at that rate. It's not a few hours unless they have many max level toons and on double xp weekends, but it's not too bad. I used to camp a named on eq1 for longer than that.

I would say 4 hours is very doable for an AOE class.  Chelsith at 311 AA was yielding 3% per kill, my AOE guard could easily pull 6 mobs and kill them in less than a minute, this is with junky SF gear as that was the last xpac I played him.  So I'd get an AA about every 3 minutes, which works out to about 4 hours. This is with full vitality, 2x max toon bonus, AA potion, but NO double xp weekend so with a double xp weekend it would literally take 2 hours.

But as I mentioned before, even if it took a couple of days, or even a week, it's not like that should be considered a long period of time for a MMO.

[Eridu]

I am in no way a "making the game easier" hater, not at all a "5 miles in the snow" type nor a travel should be 8 boring zonings in a row to get anywhere nor a "I miss interdependency in crafting" nor a raider windbag who whines about overland content being too easy in my HM gear.  This game has had, and corrected, many punishing, tedious, "waste my time elements".  It still has many.  The 280 AA requirement isn't one of them in my mind though.

The devs have to make rational decisions in settig the parameters for encounters.  Players must be able to depend on each other to be able to handle the content.  So much character power, so much of what a player class IS, is tied up in the AA system, especially the endlines now.  DoV heroic zones fell on the sword of some woefully abstract sense of "Player skill" and of "Developer skill".  Whether it was some notion of what players should be able to do or what devs believed they could make the game architecture do; players often failed to meet that notional standard of ability and developers generated scripted events that failed or reset or whatever.  This is through no fault of either player or dev but of the limits of "skill' and architecture.

The 280 AA requirement is a sound approach.  It is simple, rational and helpful for both the players and the devs.  It is not some notion, not abstract.  Thankfully this is a thing wholly in the control of the player. The dev team made a sane, just plain player empowering decision with this, for individual players and for the fellow players we meet and group with in game.

In a single word, it's fair.

[Sigtyr]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Hai SoE,

While I agree with the principle of this change, I think you have some real issues that need to be addressed.

I've spoken to 2 people that quit the game as a result of this.  They simply got to 90 with 190ish aa and said, 'forget that' when they then found out the needed to grind 100ish aa solo in order to continue the game.

You've got to address this issue from a longer arch than just throwing a requirement at level 90.  We need warnings or requirements along the way to steer players down the right path and give an expectation to where they need to be rather than reaching 90 and getting hit with the AA sledge hammer.

I've even talked to vets who are verry passionate about this issue who also are considering quiting or simply not playing nearly as much as a result of this change.

This idea needs more time in the oven with more things done to not gate players out of the blue.

As always Atan is spot on! This discussion is finally going somewhere, and the issue is not if it is easy for an experienced EQ2 player to grind AA's, the issue is a new player who finally gets to 90, I dunno how close to 280 you get on the default 50% setting for Silver members but it not enough.How easy is it for that person to grind to 280, WITH the information given in game?

So lets say that the new player does not immediately quit in disgust over a game that when you follow the recommended settings and leveling route finally tells you that its not enough and tries to solo AAs, where can he find out where to go? The in game help? Nope. From his guild? Hopefully but not certain. Can he get lots of Pug or Guild groups for DoV dungeons and grind AA and skills that way? Most likely not. He will however see all comments on how easy it is to get AAs and how the people that has problems with it are scrubs. Yes it is an MMO but "it should be hard" is not valid anymore, so many people here are doing the KODAK mistake "emulsion based film is by far the best product vs digital" pointing people to the very few 3rd party fan sites for information is simply not good enough anymore, assuming they know what to look for. How many people here have successfully described Adornments for a new player, the need for them how to do them and all the other things needed for them and got a positive answer instead of "why is that not explained anywhere, why doesnt the game tell me that this transmuting thing is vital, oh I have to purchase low level items on the broker or roll an alt to level this skill, that sounds fun, and then find someone to make them for me. And at high level I must get groups for dungeon that few does nowadays, Great!"

The "walked uphill both ways in the snow" mentality must stop. The game MUST by itself put players in a position to acess the content, there are lots of way to do that. Remove the group XP penalty. Copy the Aion mentoring quests where an higher level must mentor a lower level. Someone mentioned putting all newly created toons in a NEW guild, that could be something. My wife always thought that guild XP should be given for in guild groupin, so if a guild does a raid with 4 mentored toons and 8 low level toons the guild get guild xp for the event according to some formula.

[convict]

DamselInDistress wrote:

convict wrote:

Another whine thread to make the game even easier, brought to you by the SoE forums. What's next?

If you have a valid opinion then by all means discuss it. Otherwise why do you feel the need to come here and whine yourself ?

DamselInDistress wrote:

I don't really see them changing things, simply because of the 3 or 4 people who can't be bothered to play the game and 2 months from now will be playing their new flavour of the month game.

There are much better things to be done like moar SC items pls ! 

[convict]

Sigtyr@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Hai SoE,

While I agree with the principle of this change, I think you have some real issues that need to be addressed.

I've spoken to 2 people that quit the game as a result of this.  They simply got to 90 with 190ish aa and said, 'forget that' when they then found out the needed to grind 100ish aa solo in order to continue the game.

You've got to address this issue from a longer arch than just throwing a requirement at level 90.  We need warnings or requirements along the way to steer players down the right path and give an expectation to where they need to be rather than reaching 90 and getting hit with the AA sledge hammer.

I've even talked to vets who are verry passionate about this issue who also are considering quiting or simply not playing nearly as much as a result of this change.

This idea needs more time in the oven with more things done to not gate players out of the blue.

As always Atan is spot on! This discussion is finally going somewhere, and the issue is not if it is easy for an experienced EQ2 player to grind AA's, the issue is a new player who finally gets to 90, 

If they're still a new player when they get to 90, then they don't need to ding 91 yet.