5 Steps to Fix EQ2

[Onorem]

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Onorem wrote:

If you set it and forget it, you lose. If you ignore the market in eq2, you lose. This market promotes actually paying attention and buying and selling and harvesting while a particular section of the market is down or hoarding when you see that the market is ready to bust.

The market "game" here is more robust than any other game I've tried. If you're unable to adjust to how it works, oh well. (I'm not a market player in general. I pretty much just set my prices low and try to move quantity.) I don't play the market, but I don't want to prevent other people from enjoying the game they enjoy.

I don't lose anything for ignoring the market.  I have more than enough plat to take care of any needs I have in game and can easily make more in a week than I would ever care to spend paying that much attention to the marketplace.  

You have obviously never participated in playing the market.  I have done so in WoW and have friends that still do so. Should I even point out the fact that you can manage your auctions from a website in that game?  Making gold and controlling the economy is easy to do as long as you have a decent fund to start with.

Nothing I've proposed makes any changes whatsoever to the turnover market that is constantly volatile and being bought and resold.  Anything that sits for the amount of time's I've proposed isn't in the profit market.  It's only in the storage market.

Whatever makes you happy. If you think you can ignore that market, fine. Have at it. It should be simple enough for you to ignore it with no effort.

I've obviously never participated in playing the market? - Please explain how you came to that conclusion.

(I don't want website access to the market. I think you should actually have to be in game to play)

I still don't see how this is supposed to "fix" anything other than how you'd like the broker to work.

[Mathrim]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

4) The Broker

This issue really isn't a very big one in my opinion.  I think its cheap and cheesy that the broker in eq2 is just extrended storage, and what you've outlined would stop it from being used as storage space.  This can be fixed, or it can be left alone.  I'm not sure it impacts the overall game significantly.

Atan,

The broker section isn't really intended to affect the veterans, end game people, or just people with a lot of assets. It was really designed with an intention to bring some semblance of order and reason to the broker system for new players as they enter the game.  I know for me personally, the Auction systems in WoW, Rift, and ToR all seem so much simpler and reasonable on prices.

I know new players probably get enough shell shock when they see some of the insane SLR's in Auction channel.  I really created it to make the broker system at least a little more friendly to those who are just coming up and don't have nest eggs.

The second part about the stocking fees was more of a design to help pull platinum out of the economy.  I'm not sold on how effective it would be since most of the gear on the market at 90 is junk, but it at least introduces a way to at least make people think twice about using the broker for storage.  I bet if you put the stocking fee as...say...20% of the selling price....you would see a lot less 1000 pp items up there.

[Mathrim]

Onorem wrote:

Whatever makes you happy. If you think you can ignore that market, fine. Have at it. It should be simple enough for you to ignore it with no effort.

I've obviously never participated in playing the market? - Please explain how you came to that conclusion.

(I don't want website access to the market. I think you should actually have to be in game to play)

I still don't see how this is supposed to "fix" anything other than how you'd like the broker to work.

I don't "think" I can ignore the market.  I already do.  Besides arrows, I've been doing it for the last 2 years.  Oh...did I mention I have a 90 woodworker and can make my own arrows but it's just boring as heck. I make my own potions and poisons.  I also make my own adornments and farm my own manas/infusions. I have guildies that make my food/drink/whetstones.  Thanks guys!

I can guarantee you that most of the people I play with do the same and have access to the same avenues.  The only reason most people access the broker is because they are either in a hurry or lazy.  They don't do it for the sales.

The broker system in this game, besides consumables, has become nothing but fluff.  Read the tradeskiller forums and see how much they are begging to be able to make the cool gear, weapons, and housing stuff like on Station Cash.

Read the complaints about how weaponsmiths are tired of being used for nothing but whetstones.

How many people do you believe actually still use the broker for raws versus just using their Guild Halls.  I haven't personally bought a raw in at least a year.

I really don't know what you are smoking when you say the auction system in this game is better than all the others. I've played the others and unlike here, their crafters actually put stuff up for sale on the broker every day and are useful to the economy.

Let me correct what I've said.  The only market participation you must be familiar with is in Everquest 2.  I make that conclusion by you saying this is the most robust market game you've ever tried.  You either have a really, really, limited viewscope with MMO's or you sucked at playing the market in the others.

[Regolas]

Good post from OP. Re: plat I've said this several times, but regardless of whether plat chests are nerfed, or anything else is changed to slow the inflation, it will still happen because there's a constant flow of new plat coming into the economy. It's like real world banks printing new money on a daily basis and handing it out. Those who invest the time to get it will make it. If you nerf the amount that drops they just have to play more. This game is all about time investment. Play more and you'll get more, whether its loot drops, plat, faction or anything else.

[Brigh]

Onorem wrote:

Brigh wrote:

I played LoTRO for a year and their auction house system does what OP proposed: Timed auctions, then removal of the items from the market, as well as fees for posting.

Good for LoTRO. I'm still waiting for an explanation for why that's a better method.  (PS: Will you go back to LoTRO?)

I played for a year from closed beta forward, and had planned on paying for a VIP sub when RL issues came up.

When I have the $, inclination, time, etc I pay for multiple subs (Eve Online, have All Access here on one acct for EQ I - paid SC for one month on other EQ I acct, while LoTRO is FTP to log in - played one short evening a year or so ago finishing out a grinding of a LoTRO achievement what ever their name for it was called).

I like the feeling and the epic storylines but some of the gameplay is something to get used to: The what I assume to be WoW style reactive button mashing> Click an ability, triggers an opening to use the next (like with a burglar), etc. Alot of staring at the buttons (well we do that in every fantasy MMOG don't we?) to see when something can be used next / again.

[Brigh]

Onorem wrote:

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Onorem wrote:

Good for LoTRO. I'm still waiting for an explanation for why that's a better method.  (PS: Will you go back to LoTRO?)

It's better because it actually forces people to interact with the system and create a functional market.  It doesn't just let you set it and forget it, which is what EQ2 does.

People actually have to participate in those systems and adjust to the in game market forces instead of completely ignore it like most of the current EQ2 playerbase does.

LoTRO, WoW, Rift, ToR, and a few others all use the timeout system and gear constantly gets bought and sold off it because the sellers are forced to adjust to supply and demand prices.

I can guarantee you that a large marjority of the playerbase currently uses the broker for nothing more than the purchase of consumables.  It has been that way for a long time.

You won't find this lack of interest and apathy in other MMO's.

If you set it and forget it, you lose. If you ignore the market in eq2, you lose. This market promotes actually paying attention and buying and selling and harvesting while a particular section of the market is down or hoarding when you see that the market is ready to bust.

The market "game" here is more robust than any other game I've tried. If you're unable to adjust to how it works, oh well. (I'm not a market player in general. I pretty much just set my prices low and try to move quantity.) I don't play the market, but I don't want to prevent other people from enjoying the game they enjoy.

Have you tried Eve Online?

Speaking of which, how about equipment has a set amount of repairs in a fantasy MMOG where eventually you have to replace it, and only players can repair it with consumable-over-time (same as equipment) repair items (hammers/thread/needles...).

Few "top name" publishers/developers have the stones to create a game like that these days.

[Yimway]

Regolas wrote:

I've said this several times, but regardless of whether plat chests are nerfed, or anything else is changed to slow the inflation, it will still happen because there's a constant flow of new plat coming into the economy. It's like real world banks printing new money on a daily basis and handing it out.

You can't make many real market trade analogies.

You're omitting that coin to NPCs and other avenues also vanish from the market.  As well as when people quit (die) their wealth often leaves the market as well.

MMO marketplaces are distinctly different than real world markets and there is a very real need for coin to keep entering the market.  What has to be managed is how fast it enters vs how fast it leaves.  I'm quite sure SoE has the ability to see and monitor this. 

What I don't understand is why they've taken no measures to control the system.  My guess is, they feel people farming PR to gear out are just subs they wouldn't have if they couldn't farm PR to gear out.  They fail to see that those aren't players that will be retained long term, and by actually encouraging people to group up and play the game more will result in more revenue for them.

[Yimway]

Brigh wrote:

Onorem wrote:

The market "game" here is more robust than any other game I've tried.

Have you tried Eve Online?

LOL, the market is the entire game of Eve Online.

[Mathrim]

Brigh wrote:

Eve Online

Perfect example of an MMO that truly desires to have a functional and robust economy.  CCP takes great strides to keep the game balanced and works with the playerbase a lot to keep everything flowing smoothly.

Talk about a supply and demand driven economy that is essential to the life of a game.  If it wasn't for the fact that you can be griefed so badly and taken advantage of by crooks, it would be just about perfect.  Of course, then where would the crooks go?

[Brigh]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Brigh wrote:

Onorem wrote:

The market "game" here is more robust than any other game I've tried.

Have you tried Eve Online?

LOL, the market is the entire game of Eve Online.

scroll back as I wasn't done...

Yes the market revolves heavily around player-created goods and activity.

Without people mining, there would be no ships. Without industrialists creating ships from minerals mined, there would be no ships. Without people shooting each other in low/null sec there would be no destruction of ships to be replaced by people mining to be turned into ships. Without people declaring wars on other corps in high sec there would be no reduction of high sec ships to once again be created from minerals mined ...etc...

Where is the fantasy game created around this concept?

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Brigh wrote:

Eve Online

Perfect example of an MMO that truly desires to have a functional and robust economy.  CCP takes great strides to keep the game balanced and works with the playerbase a lot to keep everything flowing smoothly.

Talk about a supply and demand driven economy that is essential to the life of a game.  If it wasn't for the fact that you can be griefed so badly and taken advantage of by crooks, it would be just about perfect.  Of course, then where would the crooks go?

A fool and his money are soon parted, so you are a fool if you fall for an obvious scam.

Many people get war dec'd in their corps if they make themselves known through being assassins   with smack talk, flaunt their pretty PVE ships in high traffic areas, etc. 

[Axelia]

The underlying issues are attitudes of the player base and that is something that is beyond the control of developers.  SLR, RMT and anti-socials are killing this game and those that would group find a few close friends or family members to spend time with rather than venture out and find others outside their circle.

SOE can't fix this.

[Davngr]

people group.   they just don't LFG like they use to.      you can't take away the resources that new/casual players use to make plat.  

 i wouldn't mind getting rid of the broker and making all sales be Person to Person.  that would stimulate player interaction and remove dead weight from the economy.

[Malleria]

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

I don't "think" I can ignore the market.  I already do.  Besides arrows, I've been doing it for the last 2 years.  Oh...did I mention I have a 90 woodworker and can make my own arrows but it's just boring as heck. I make my own potions and poisons.  I also make my own adornments and farm my own manas/infusions. I have guildies that make my food/drink/whetstones.  Thanks guys!

I can guarantee you that most of the people I play with do the same and have access to the same avenues.  The only reason most people access the broker is because they are either in a hurry or lazy.  They don't do it for the sales.

The broker system in this game, besides consumables, has become nothing but fluff.  Read the tradeskiller forums and see how much they are begging to be able to make the cool gear, weapons, and housing stuff like on Station Cash.

Read the complaints about how weaponsmiths are tired of being used for nothing but whetstones.

How many people do you believe actually still use the broker for raws versus just using their Guild Halls.  I haven't personally bought a raw in at least a year.

I really don't know what you are smoking when you say the auction system in this game is better than all the others. I've played the others and unlike here, their crafters actually put stuff up for sale on the broker every day and are useful to the economy.

Let me correct what I've said.  The only market participation you must be familiar with is in Everquest 2.  I make that conclusion by you saying this is the most robust market game you've ever tried.  You either have a really, really, limited viewscope with MMO's or you sucked at playing the market in the others.

Sounds like now your problem with the broker system is that there is nothing worth selling. Which has nothing to do whatsoever with adding a listing fee or time limits.

You're absolutely right about that btw. But if you start adding fees to list items there will be even fewer people attempting to sell them.

[SisterTheresa]

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Onorem wrote:

I'm fine with the broker as it is. It's another aspect of the game. Plat it or don't.

The problem with this viewpoint, is that with any real economy, there are consequences to selling items at extreme prices when there is no demand for it.  In the real world, people who do this go out of business and their inventory gets sold off for scraps to the remaining vendors.

Now obviously, this is a game, and real world rules don't apply, but there is really no reason that there should be hundreds of the same item up for 5pp when there are thousands up for 1pp. All this does is increase the broker search time and clutter up the marketplace.  If those people who are either using the broker as a item mule, or who just put items up and never look at them again were forced to manage their inventories, not only would it cause more competitive pricing, but it would make searching through the armor, weapons, etc, so much easier.

No no no.  I won't have anyone tell me what I should or should not be able to put up on the broker or the price to charge it.  Nor do I want a time limit.  As you said yourself real world rules don't apply.  Leave the broker alone.

[Davngr]

a lot of you people are forgetting this is a GAME not a fortune 500 enterprise. 

 make the broker be a place that only displays what is available at that given point and time and make a person to person system where the seller has to be online and available to sell you the item.  

  that would make selling stuff an actual activity and not just something automatic.   everyone complains that they're bored and cry about it so there..  now you can sell your stuff if you have nothing else to do.   

[Mathrim]

Malleria wrote:

Sounds like now your problem with the broker system is that there is nothing worth selling. Which has nothing to do whatsoever with adding a listing fee or time limits.

You're absolutely right about that btw. But if you start adding fees to list items there will be even fewer people attempting to sell them.

Sorry. I kind of got off on a separate tangent about tradeskilling when Onorem claimed that the market "game here is more robust than any other game he's tried.  I derailed into just how out of whack the entire market/broker/ecomony in the game is.

[Mathrim]

Ridolain@Antonia Bayle wrote:

No no no.  I won't have anyone tell me what I should or should not be able to put up on the broker or the price to charge it.  Nor do I want a time limit.  As you said yourself real world rules don't apply.  Leave the broker alone.

You see absolutely nothing wrong with total CRAP gear from a previous expansion sitting on the broker for the entire last year for 900 pp?  I kid you not.  Some of these items have been there for over a year and will NEVER be bought.

On my server, right now there are 3 level 80 charms that are total junk selling for anywhere from 900 to 1200 pp and are nothing but mute fodder.  There are tons of level 80 items in the 400pp range that are blown away by items that are 20pp to 30pp.

I see at least 30 masters from the same seller all set at 1800 pp per master.  This person is obviously using the broker as nothing but a storage space.

This may not be the real world, but it is a persistent world, and even a persistent world needs to have rules.  Like Atan said earlier, this really isn't a major issue.  It's more of a pet peeve and a desire to see the broker system really used the way it should be and make it more effective.

[Alpharaz]

I'm so tired of seeing people complain about the plat chest. Players play this game for many different reasons and different play styles. Not everyone likes being forced to group or raid all the time. I understand ppl's frustrations, but this is an 8 year old game and things have gotten a lot easier overtime so of course it will be easier to obtain plat as well. Taking plat out of economy or making it harder to get now would just be bad idea imo. What about players who solo plat chest to spend it on decoration items or enjoy buying collections etc. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy to try and fill up an entire group just to get some plat so they can buy what they want. Plat zones are not particularly fun I might add. Its something done as a daily, weekly, or hourly chore for some just to get some quick plat imagine ppl trying to fill up a 6 man group for a boring PR run. 

One of the main reasons why dungeon finder was a fail (other than broken group matching mechanics) players are skeptical and for a good reason. Personally i don't want to group up with just any lfg leecher. Thats part of the reason we have guilds so we can grow a friendship relationship with other players in the guild and learn to trust each other and you have others you can depend on that depend on you as well. The reason why it can be so hard to get a group with random players is most are skeptical. There are a lot of leechers out there that will need on every chest for their alts and leave once they got what they came for.  I'm not saying there are not players that would be willing to group with anyone, but they are far and few.

I agree the game has issues, and I even agree there should be more of an incentive to group with others like removing xp penalty, but I would suggest reducing the need for plat rather than making it harder to obtain.  That way less players will be farming these zones because there will be less of a reason too. Maybe make the gear only obtainable from a merchant via shards method. That would reduce the farming because you would have to run the content to recieve the shards to get the gear rather than just buying it off auction.  

[Mathrim]

Alpharaz wrote:

What about players who solo plat chest to spend it on decoration items or enjoy buying collections etc. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy to try and fill up an entire group just to get some plat so they can buy what they want. Plat zones are not particularly fun I might add. Its something done as a daily, weekly, or hourly chore for some just to get some quick plat imagine ppl trying to fill up a 6 man group for a boring PR run. 

That way less players will be farming these zones because there will be less of a reason too. Maybe make the gear only obtainable from a merchant via shards method. That would reduce the farming because you would have to run the content to recieve the shards to get the gear rather than just buying it off auction.  

How many players out there really need to farm plat for decorating and collections? I can't imagine there is a large section of the population that does this and even then it can't be that expensive.  Do I need to point out that if you can farm the zones I am talking about for plat, then you can already farm most of the zones for the collections.  The need to get a little bit of quick plat doesn't justify the ability to make 1000 pp a week.  There is nothing "little bit" about 1000 pp a week. 

You are suggesting removing all loot armor drops and moving to a token exhcange system.  I'm not sure if you've been around the forums much, but this idea has been floated around numerous times and been shot down a lot.  I think you would lose far more of the player base to a re-design of this sort.  The Auction market would simply die and people would have absolutely no use at all for the thousands of plat they have in their bank now.  For those guilds that are stuck on farm mode until new content comes along, they would hemorrage players like never before due to apathy.  I will also point out, that if you were to re-design the game like this, the people you were complaining about wanting to farm pp in your first paragraph would have even less reason to bother with it since SLR will die.  So essentially, you will have a bunch of players sitting around with nothing to do but decorate and farm shards.  Sounds exciting.

One of the only remaining things of excitement in this game is the popping of that chest to see whats inside.  Kill that and you might as well not even bother doing harder content because there won't be people there to do it.

[Katz]

I agree that many things unintentionally discourage grouping.  Especially decreasing experience gain, loot, and coin due to spitting it.  I would like to see some changes made to not discourage grouping.  

However, even if you make the changes, that won't necessarily improve the odds of having groups.   People post all the time that they want to group.  People in game are often wanting to group.   There are enough people wanting to group to form tons of groups.  So why don't they go ahead and group for crying out loud????   For those people it isn't the group penalties that are stopping them from grouping.   So what is stopping them from grouping?  

My experience in games is that people log on, ask if anyone needs help/wants to do anything.  People already online are in the midst of something already and don't need or want anything right that moment.  So the person then goes and gets busy doing something.  Next person logs in...same thing happens.  I don't see your suggestions changing that process.

As far as the broker system, I like it the way it is.   I've been in games where they charge you to post items for sell and mail them to you when they don't sell in the time frame, that gets tedious.    I think other things can be done to help the economy. 

[SOE-MOD-04]

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5744420 Removed for trolling

[Mathrim]

Katz wrote:

People post all the time that they want to group.  People in game are often wanting to group.   There are enough people wanting to group to form tons of groups.  So why don't they go ahead and group for crying out loud????   For those people it isn't the group penalties that are stopping them from grouping.   So what is stopping them from grouping?  

My experience in games is that people log on, ask if anyone needs help/wants to do anything.  People already online are in the midst of something already and don't need or want anything right that moment.  So the person then goes and gets busy doing something.  Next person logs in...same thing happens.  I don't see your suggestions changing that process.

As far as people not wanting to group, I think it's a 2 part issue. First part is that people are just bored with the zones and there has been far too long between content updates.  The second part is that between the old zones offering nothing of interest except less xp and less loot for a group, to the newer zones being more challenging for most pugs, a lot of people are afraid to try out PuGs or the Dungeon Finder due to the higher than normal probability of failure.

Honestly, the damage to the group scene may be too far gone at this point.  People are comfortable and set in their ways of solo'ing, farming, duoing, etc.  The game has gone on for a long time without really encouraging and promoting grouping.  It is far easier to see obvious upgrade paths from farming than it is for grouping.

[Alpharaz]

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Alpharaz wrote:

What about players who solo plat chest to spend it on decoration items or enjoy buying collections etc. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy to try and fill up an entire group just to get some plat so they can buy what they want. Plat zones are not particularly fun I might add. Its something done as a daily, weekly, or hourly chore for some just to get some quick plat imagine ppl trying to fill up a 6 man group for a boring PR run. 

That way less players will be farming these zones because there will be less of a reason too. Maybe make the gear only obtainable from a merchant via shards method. That would reduce the farming because you would have to run the content to recieve the shards to get the gear rather than just buying it off auction.  

How many players out there really need to farm plat for decorating and collections? I can't imagine there is a large section of the population that does this and even then it can't be that expensive.  Do I need to point out that if you can farm the zones I am talking about for plat, then you can already farm most of the zones for the collections.  The need to get a little bit of quick plat doesn't justify the ability to make 1000 pp a week.  There is nothing "little bit" about 1000 pp a week. 

You are suggesting removing all loot armor drops and moving to a token exhcange system.  I'm not sure if you've been around the forums much, but this idea has been floated around numerous times and been shot down a lot.  I think you would lose far more of the player base to a re-design of this sort.  The Auction market would simply die and people would have absolutely no use at all for the thousands of plat they have in their bank now.  For those guilds that are stuck on farm mode until new content comes along, they would hemorrage players like never before due to apathy.  I will also point out, that if you were to re-design the game like this, the people you were complaining about wanting to farm pp in your first paragraph would have even less reason to bother with it since SLR will die.  So essentially, you will have a bunch of players sitting around with nothing to do but decorate and farm shards.  Sounds exciting.

One of the only remaining things of excitement in this game is the popping of that chest to see whats inside.  Kill that and you might as well not even bother doing harder content because there won't be people there to do it.

like i said everyone has different playstyle and plays game for different reasons, and I don't think SOE should soley cater to just one section of the player base. I agree probably not a lot of ppl plat farm like crazy for decorations and collections that was just a small example perhaps a bad example. This game has been in easy mode for awhile and it's been steadily getting worse for awhile now.

I should have specified shard system for heroic content gear not raid content. I don't raid so i tend to forget to specify my words correctly. I understand raid loot tables are the way they are for a reason and i apprieciate that and respect it I do not think you should be able to get HM drunder raid gear from pure velium shards grinding lol my bad for not specifying what I meant correctly. That would be an imitation of a token system. I suppose half the players farm plat like crazy to buy raid gear from auction. I do not raid and i buy gear off broker or colossals to craft pieces I need so I don't tend to think about it. I don't really need raid gear if I'm not gonna be running that content, so I like to get best in slot for what is available in heroic content, for zones I'm actually gonna be running.

I am well aware how much you can make from PR, SoH, VP, Nur'oga,Deep forge, Mystmyre Manor, OOA etc because I run SoH and PR everytime i get a chance with 12 toons and do Nur'oga and mystmyre manor runs as often as i think about it since it's quick plat. I never said "a little bit" in fact if 1000 plat is all your getting a week then there definitly shouldn't be a problem. I know from past experiences I've managed to get 1000 plat in a couple days from plat chest alone.  I quit doing deep forge and OOA cuz i just got sick of them and honestly none of it's fun. I don't enjoy it. It makes this game less fun to play which is why I'm not as hardcore about it as I use to be.  It is important to me to keep all my toons up to date with gear so i can bring whichever of them to a group. If there was another system that didn't involve plat farming like shards whatnot that forces you to apply time and effort to get the gear by doing the newer content I'd be happy with it, but I can't agree with a system that forces you to a full group to get the full amount of plat worth from a chest especially when these plat zones are not particularly fun to begin with I find them more of a daily chore than a fun activity to do ....with group or without

changing plat system alone will not bring more ppl into groups in the game.

[Equilibrium]

Davngr1 wrote:

Detriment@Kithicor wrote:

An MMO should not cater to people that like to solo. An MMO is not supposed to be a single player experience, hence why this game is so unpopular in the MMO world.

this game is for the most part harder than the "popular" mmo's.    if you zone into a zone with the wrong set up you will fail, not many mmo's out there offer that.

Im glad you brought this up because this is another issue that needs to be addressed. You basically just said that the challenge of this game is finding the proper set up in order to not fail. That is why you see people spamming the chat for a bard and chanter for every single group. It used to be the hardest things to find were a tank and a healer, now you need both of those, a bard and a chanter and that is ridiculous. You want to know why more people are not putting together more groups, there is a classic example of why right there.

When this game needed class consolidation most, they added another.

[Wirewhisker]

As was mentioned previously in this thread (and is something I've mentioned numerous times), the Eve-Online market system is truly robust, and has some features that any MMO developer should take a long look at.

The one I think would make the most impact this game, are the Buy orders.

Player A is looking for the Sword of Unspeakable Monster Destruction. He lists a buy order for it, at 150p

Player B has a Sword of Unspeakable Monster Destruction. He goes to his broker. He sees the highest buy order is 150p. He can either sell it for that, or set a higher price (a 'sell order') for it. In which case, Player A would have to come along and decide whether to buy it outright or leave his buy order in place.

As always, the seller problem of repeated undercutting would remain. Also, the reverse would become an issue:

Player C also wants the Sword of Unspeakable Monster Destruction. He lists a buy order for 150p, 1c.

Player B bumps to 150p, 2c.

etc etc etc.

Eve's answer to that is to limit buy and sell order changes to once every 5 minutes. I don't think EQ's would have to be nearly as drastic, as the broker is not the de factor center of the game in EQ2 as the market is in Eve. But a delay on changes of 30-90 seconds would be apropos.

Also, Eve takes a surcharge on all order changes and original placements. That might be worth implementing in EQ2, as another way to take money out of the game.

This change would undoubtedly add stress to the database in this game. I, as a player, think it would be worth it and I highly encourage Sony to look at it. Combined with the removal of No-Trade/Heirloom for all but the highest content and quest rewards, this would make the broker very powerful and active. Buy Orders might in fact remove some of the database stress, as items could potentially fly off the broker before they even are put up for sale, if people decide to simply meet another's Buy order instead of setting a Sell order of their own.

[bks6721]

two quick ideas that i'm sure will be as popular as a fart in church...

1. Want a plat sink?  Put a 40% tax on SLR auctions.

2. Want people to quit farming plat?  Remove the motivating factor. SLR auctions.

Maybe people don't like to group because its just easier to buy their gear.

Maybe people don't like to group because they bought gear already and now the zones don't offer upgrades so they don't bother.

Maybe people bought gear and they still fail in zones so they give up and quit.

Maybe some people just have no tolerance for less than perfect performance in a PuG.

I used to group a lot.. lately it seems that the game is filled with 'I solo'd your mom, brah' attitudes.

I'm sorry my templar didn't do 35k dps in Pools.. next time I'll just take my merc and do it alone.

[Mathrim]

Pauly@Befallen wrote:

1. Want a plat sink?  Put a 40% tax on SLR auctions.

Maybe people don't like to group because its just easier to buy their gear.

I used to group a lot.. lately it seems that the game is filled with 'I solo'd your mom, brah' attitudes.

How would you even implement number 1?  The auction channel is purely for player to player transactions and never involves any npc mechanic to be able to apply the tax.  The only way to do it would be at the time the loot is assigned at the chest and even then there would be no way to adjust the variable from SLR prices for the tax.

The only way to do it would be to make gear tradeable and put it on the broker where the fee is applied at time of stocking or time of purchase.

I can honestly say that if I wasn't in a raid guild, it would be far quicker and easier to farm pp to buy upgrades or rygorr gems from Kael than it would be to actually do the zones. I can't count the number of times that I've ran a zone lately and seen nothing but crap drop, and I've sat there thinking.....I could have made 100pp farming in the time this took.

I don't really get the 'I solo'd your mom, brah' attitude from people, but that could be because most of my grouping is guild groups and a close group of 4 friends.  I will say that I do solo zones alot and duo some with my wife.  It's just easier and less hassle than to deal with strangers for the most part.  Just saying that kind of makes me sad.

[Vinyard]

I've been saying this for a while now.

Bring back the heroic scarecrows in Antonica. It will save EQ2 faster than any of these ideas.

Make the overland zones a place to grind mobs with people, not just dungeons. The Golden Path is so boring, and not fun. Antonica, Commonlands, Zek, EL....these were once great places to find people to group with, and just kill things for hours. It brings back the social interaction of the community.

[Onorem]

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Onorem wrote:

Whatever makes you happy. If you think you can ignore that market, fine. Have at it. It should be simple enough for you to ignore it with no effort.

I've obviously never participated in playing the market? - Please explain how you came to that conclusion.

(I don't want website access to the market. I think you should actually have to be in game to play)

I still don't see how this is supposed to "fix" anything other than how you'd like the broker to work.

I don't "think" I can ignore the market.  I already do.  Besides arrows, I've been doing it for the last 2 years.  Oh...did I mention I have a 90 woodworker and can make my own arrows but it's just boring as heck. I make my own potions and poisons.  I also make my own adornments and farm my own manas/infusions. I have guildies that make my food/drink/whetstones.  Thanks guys!

I can guarantee you that most of the people I play with do the same and have access to the same avenues.  The only reason most people access the broker is because they are either in a hurry or lazy.  They don't do it for the sales.

The broker system in this game, besides consumables, has become nothing but fluff.  Read the tradeskiller forums and see how much they are begging to be able to make the cool gear, weapons, and housing stuff like on Station Cash.

Read the complaints about how weaponsmiths are tired of being used for nothing but whetstones.

How many people do you believe actually still use the broker for raws versus just using their Guild Halls.  I haven't personally bought a raw in at least a year.

I really don't know what you are smoking when you say the auction system in this game is better than all the others. I've played the others and unlike here, their crafters actually put stuff up for sale on the broker every day and are useful to the economy.

Let me correct what I've said.  The only market participation you must be familiar with is in Everquest 2.  I make that conclusion by you saying this is the most robust market game you've ever tried.  You either have a really, really, limited viewscope with MMO's or you sucked at playing the market in the others.

This is a new discussion. I never said the broker was a useful tool for tradeskillers. Fixing the broker (not that it needs fixing) won't change a thing for the usefulness (lack) of tradeskillers.

[Levatino]

Reply towards point nr 4 of the OP.

The broker could be made more important if we the players use it more often. You can create/redo a terrific broker system but if no-one uses it (you said it yourself you don't buy from it cause you have everything made for you or get it yourself) it will be a a waste of time and resources to rethink it all.

Besides I thought that if you didn't log your char in 7 days it would take off the items this char had on the broker but when relogged puts them back with the last changed prices so the taken off part is already in place.