90 minute timer question

[Wirewhisker]

Having soloed most Epic zones up to KoS/EoF content, I'd like to think it's discriminatory to not make those 90 minute reset also. I mean come on, I'm doing it with a 'group' of 1, right? 

[Cyliena]

Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:

How to do the Nuroga plat chest in ~2 minutes as a brawler. And I can now do this every 90 minutes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkzMNf7GDWc

I might laugh briefly if I see in future patch notes "Feign Death is now disabled in Nuroga."

[Wurm]

Its 90 mins for Poet's Palace.

[Lempo]

Cyliena wrote:

Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:

How to do the Nuroga plat chest in ~2 minutes as a brawler. And I can now do this every 90 minutes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkzMNf7GDWc

I might laugh briefly if I see in future patch notes "Feign Death is now disabled in Nuroga."

Wouldn't matter much if they did, just train to the key mob kill whatever is still on you loot key and grab the chest, then either kill the mobs or just let the kill you, revive and you are done. I'm pretty sure I could handle every trash mob in that zone at once on my bruiser, the more he hits/gets hit the better anyway.

[Koleg]

Venom70 wrote:

I have to admit I aggree with those thinking this will tank the economy here. For me, this simply means I will stop useing the broker system once it goes the way of eq1 (Items selling for hundreds of thousands of plat) But only because I am not a fan of farming on that level. Sure I do all the runs everyone else does at this point, but for most, its a quick trip if I'm in the mood once a day, and twice a week for a a few others. The idea of needing to grind plat all day every day to keep up just does not appeal to me.

People are not that motivated... to farm hours upon hours each day or week inorder to have anywhere near that kind of plat.  it would literally takes year to get to that point.  At this point the Plat is mostly being shuffled around by those that have the greatest amount.  The SLR market has lowered mostly because those with the plat got their SLR long ago and those buying it now didn't / don't have that much plat.

Farming OOA and PR and the like isn't hard, but it is boring and loses its appear quickly.  Heck, I haven't run OOA in 2 or 3 months and I can do it in less than 5 minutes on 3 or 4 of my toons.  I haven't stepped foot into PR for nearly the same amount of time and that is an 18 minute zone for me to box.  The appeal of the plat is not as great as some people think.

Farming zones for plat is far from the best way to acquire wealth.  Let the plat farmers get it for you.  Why farm plat for 3 or 4 hours when you can sell stuff to 4 or 5 other people who did the farming for you in the same time or less.

[Yimway]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Farming zones for plat is far from the best way to acquire wealth.  Let the plat farmers get it for you.  Why farm plat for 3 or 4 hours when you can sell stuff to 4 or 5 other people who did the farming for you in the same time or less.

Its not the best way to get plat if your one of the 1-5% actually killing anything meaningful in this game.  Cause for us we just sell our left overs for 1000's of plat.  But most of those people I'm selling to are running PR, SoH, and OOA almost daily.  Some have enterprised out to VP and other zones.

I know its a generalization, as I'm selling stuff to alts that get plat the same way I do (selling stuff I don't need), but the overwhelming majority of it I sell to people that aren't actually playing the content.

Inflation is out of hand in EQ2 not cause of SLR, not cause of SC, but cause very trivial content over-rewards coin.

[Avirodar]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Inflation is out of hand in EQ2 not cause of SLR, not cause of SC, but cause very trivial content over-rewards coin.

Spot on.I made a thread about PR and SOH (and others) being excessive, quite some time ago, and it became quite colorful. I was accused of being so useless that I was jealous at people who have lots of plat, OR, I was so rich I was trying to hold the poor man down. People did not know what to make of it.Either way, as time goes on, the problem continues to manifest.

[Mathrim]

I've been thinking about this for a while now.  I've done the PR/SoH/VP 2 boxing.  I've done the OOA runs with 7 different toons, etc, and it's boring to death and part of the reason I have really lost interest in the game.  There is no social aspect, no comraderie, no goofing off.  It's just a grind for the sake of grinding.  That's why I haven't run any of those zones in the last 3 months.  

What if Sony took a step back and redesigned the loot system to where plat is only rewarded for killing the final boss and is also re-designed to be a compounding return based on the number of people present.  The key mob should also be redesigned to not spawn until the final boss is killed.  Here's an example of what I'm thinking.

A current zone rewards anywhere from 6 to 15pp for shard/loot chests.  This is divided by X number of players.  So if you have a full group, each member gets 1 to 2.5 pp.  Not really worth the effort for the plat as a group, but if the zone has actual gear needed/sellable or if the zone can be soloed or duoed, then the returns are worth it.

Redesign current content chests to reward plat at the end.  The chest starts at 2 pp and then doubles for every group member present.  So for 6 people, it would go 2+2=4+4=8+8=16+16=32+32=64 pp divided by 6 people for 10.6 pp per person.  Solo the zone and you only get 2 pp.  Bring some friends and you get 10.6.  Mercs should not count at all.

This would greatly hinder being able to solo farm zones like OOA for hundreds of plat a day while also allowing all timers to be dropped down to 90 minutes without issue.  It also would actually ENCOURAGE grouping so that the plat rewards are better for having more people!!!!  Something unheard of in a massively mulit-player game.  Will this lead to spam in channel of looking for 5 more for OOA?  Probably, but to be honest, I would rather see that than the playerbase continuing to just farm pp by themselves and have almost no interaction.

This formula can easily be adjusted up and down based on the content difficulty.  For instance, OOA could start at 1pp which would be a return of 32pp total for a full group (5.3pp per person).  Instances like Drunder could go up to 4 pp for a return of 128pp for the group (21.3 per person).

You wouldn't be able to apply this to raid zones as you don't always kill the final boss, but you could apply this to the individual bosses and adjust the plat starter based off of that.  The forumla is stupid simple, and easily adjustable based off of groups of 6, raids of 12, or 24.

[Koleg]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

Farming zones for plat is far from the best way to acquire wealth.  Let the plat farmers get it for you.  Why farm plat for 3 or 4 hours when you can sell stuff to 4 or 5 other people who did the farming for you in the same time or less.

Its not the best way to get plat if your one of the 1-5% actually killing anything meaningful in this game.  Cause for us we just sell our left overs for 1000's of plat.  But most of those people I'm selling to are running PR, SoH, and OOA almost daily.  Some have enterprised out to VP and other zones.

I know its a generalization, as I'm selling stuff to alts that get plat the same way I do (selling stuff I don't need), but the overwhelming majority of it I sell to people that aren't actually playing the content.

Inflation is out of hand in EQ2 not cause of SLR, not cause of SC, but cause very trivial content over-rewards coin.

There is a finite amount of Plat that can be farmed per toon; PR+OOA+SH+VP < 500p per week.  It might sound like a bunch, but when SLR heats up on highly contested items (rare Drunder necks) sell for ~1000p.  So, while a single toon capable of creating (solo) 500 plat per week could purchase such an item once every two weeks or once per month if they are a duo, The SLR Rare items can be brough into the game every 18 hours (or 90 minutes now).

The amount of gear availability will easily out pace that of the Plat being farmed and in doing so will lower the SLR price for the auctions.  Those people with plat already banked just shuffle it around.  Those people who still need to farm zones have a finite limitas to how much they can generate.

It sounds more like a recession is possible rather than inflation.  The inflation will start once GU63 provides all brand new shinny zones with all brand new shinny SLR.  The amount of New Plat being farmed will not dramatically increase, but continue to grow steadily. 

Now, once the GU63 gear is realized, the New Plat will most likely inflate since the continuation of Stat Inflation will directly contribute to the inflated generation of new Plat, which will in turn trickle down to the inflation of SLR auctions.  That means any inflation is not casued by SLR, SC or Plat Farmers.  No, the inflation will be directly caused by the Itemization Developer....

Why remove coin from a box when the cause is Stat Inflation... casue by the conscionable corporate design of F2P segregation.

[Wurm]

The only people with mass amounts of plat are honest raiders / crafters with a needed profession / slr heroes / SC card sellers.

I think 90 min timers are stupid. I also think people blaming inflation on people soloing old zones for a bit of plat silly.

[Koleg]

Wurm wrote:

The only people with mass amounts of plat are honest raiders / crafters with a needed profession / slr heroes / SC card sellers.

I think 90 min timers are stupid. I also think people blaming inflation on people soloing old zones for a bit of plat silly.

The Plat comes from the Chests and from the Vendors... it's the only place that actually produces plat.  Farming a small amount might not seem like it's a cause but multiply that small amount by thousands and it starts to be an issue.  Some people farm for Rarea or Shinnies and turn those into plat.  Some people farm Heroics or Raids and turn those into plat.

The plat comes from the chests and vendors... and one casual farmer might only be able to SLR one item a month or so, but the inflation is caused by the number of worker bees when compared to the number of SLR sellers.  It's a trickle up economy.

[Mathrim]

Wurm wrote:

The only people with mass amounts of plat are honest raiders / crafters with a needed profession / slr heroes / SC card sellers.

I think 90 min timers are stupid. I also think people blaming inflation on people soloing old zones for a bit of plat silly.

Do people really not understand just how much PR/SoH and OOA get ran on a daily basis?  Seriously?

Go to those zones during busy hours and look at the flags planted there.  And it isn't just single runs and guns.  It's people running them 5 or 6 times back to back.  Thats 140 pp from PR in 20 minutes repeated over and over.

How is that silly? It's a easily provable fact that anyone with even an ounce of honesty will admit happens over and over.

[Mathrim]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

There is a finite amount of Plat that can be farmed per toon; PR+OOA+SH+VP < 500p per week.  It might sound like a bunch, but when SLR heats up on highly contested items (rare Drunder necks) sell for ~1000p.  

You're estimation of 500 pp per week per toon doesn't give the whole picture.  Even the average person with 3 or 4 level 90's can do 500 pp a week with little effort.  When I was trying, I was easily pulling in 1000 to 1200 pp a week with 4 toons just doing OOA/PR/SoH.  I've now got 7 but I don't even bother running them anymore.  People out there are far better geared with far more alts that I have and can pull 3k to 5k a week.  There are guides on some sites that list instructions and strats on how to do it.  It isn't rocket science, it just takes some effort and time.

Unless Sony does something to cut down the amount of PP coming into game or creates some sort of plat sinks/market items to get players to spend it, nothing will offset the fact that people can bring in a thousand pp a week with a little effort.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:

Wurm wrote:

The only people with mass amounts of plat are honest raiders / crafters with a needed profession / slr heroes / SC card sellers.

I think 90 min timers are stupid. I also think people blaming inflation on people soloing old zones for a bit of plat silly.

Do people really not understand just how much PR/SoH and OOA get ran on a daily basis?  Seriously?

Go to those zones during busy hours and look at the flags planted there.  And it isn't just single runs and guns.  It's people running them 5 or 6 times back to back.  Thats 140 pp from PR in 20 minutes repeated over and over.

How is that silly? It's a easily provable fact that anyone with even an ounce of honesty will admit happens over and over.

While i understand what you are saying and the numbers may be fairly large, as a percentage of the total population i would wager the people doing it is very very small.  A certain level of raid gear /class etc is required to solo these zones.

[Geothe]

In the end, the biggest problem is that there is essentially infinite plat entering the server economies, but very minimal ways to remove it.

The game needs significant plat sinks, which mainly affect large plat transactions.

Should just END SLR (make loot assignable only to the players/guilds present for the kill, and for guild tradeble, you must be in the guild for like 48 hrs first) and make all heroic/raid drop loot sellable on the broker, but heroic/raid loot would have MANDATORY broker fees (which cant be bypassed).SLR auctions end, players can still sell loot (and in a much simpler fashion), and a massive plat sink is introduced into the game again.

On top of that, Plat from raid chests in old content needs to be drastically reduced when new content is introduced (especially with level cap increases).  RoK chests should only have like 25% of the plat they currently have by this point.

[yohann koldheart]

Anellise@Antonia Bayle wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Anellise@Antonia Bayle wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I thought it was just DoV stuffs

As usual they miffed the release notes.

The release notes asid "All Heroic Zones", not "All DoV Heroic Zones".

I had hopes they did the right thing, but alas it appears 'normal'.

It's all Heroic Zones.

OOA is a "Heroic" Zone and its still 18 hours, so it isn't "all".

My fault, All Heroic Zones except for a few that would be used as plat abuse.

funny cause deep forge nets you more plat then ooa, and deep forge is on a 90 min timer. so the so called abuse will shift to deep forge.

and if you think the 17plat every 90 min from ooa is abuse your insane lol. at 90 with a merc you can easly make 90 plat a  hour causualy doing other stuff.

[Yimway]

Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:

There is a finite amount of Plat that can be farmed per toon; PR+OOA+SH+VP < 500p per week.

I'm sorely tempted to proove you how low that number is, and its more important of how much per player than per toon.

But I'm tempted to see what I can reasonably farm with just my main in a week, vs what I as a player could farm in a week doing nothing but plat chests.

I'm guessing as a toon I could do around 300/night in a 3 hour night.  As a player, I'd be ashamed if I couldn't do 1000 / night from plat boxes.  I just don't need coin so I'm not really *that* interested to spend that much time doing it.  But if I didn't have gear and felt I had no other way to get it, I'd probably grind till my eyes bleed or until I just got tired of the game and left.

[Alpharaz]

I honestly don't think anyone enjoys doing the plat zones continuosly. It's just an alternate route of obtaining plat in order to get the gear so you can actually run the current content or else it is essentially pointless to farm ridiculous amounts of plat unless you are just spending it all on decorations and whatnot which I don't think much ppl run these zones for that reason. Loot tables that are screwed up forces playes to save up the plat to buy off auction if they are unable to obtain the gear when they run the zones. Casuals that do not raid are simply doing these zones to gear up their toons so they CAN run EoW and other drunder zones or other current content.

I agree the inflation is gonna get even more ridiculously out of hand with more coin entering the game, and will likley result in higher cost on broker and auction etc. Take a look at how crazy EQ1 plat system got overtime in fact most MMO games' currency overtime gets into crazy high numbers. If there wasn't new coin entering the game at all, within a short amount of time all the plat on the server would end up in a handful of high end raiders, crafters, and sc sellers. There would eventually be no one to SLR to, not to mention when you buy stuff from merchants or hire a merc, etc, the plat is gone entirely from the server so of course we do still need new coin entering the game . I suggest maybe raise prices on mercs, mender, rent, faction shops etc to help remove some of the plat from server continually so it doesn't get way too outrageous. Of course all of those suggestions are kinda petty I admit. There is just not enough plat dumping into NPC to help stabilize our economy. There needs to be a realistic sytem for all players (crafters, raiders, soloers, casuals) to obtain plat to get the gear they need at the same time without ruining the economy.

players like me that have 10+ lvl 90's that can run these zones don't have a lot more to gain from a 90 min lockout timer. The reset timer the way it was prior to 90 mins was not that much of a restriction of where, when and how much plat could be farmed especially when you think of how many different plat zones there are with only a 18 hour lockout. The only difference is I can camp all my toons at one of those instances like deep forge, and I no longer have to travel to another one. I'm not saying I do this.  I'm not that obsessive, and I honestly don't have that much patience to do that all day, but I'm just making a point.    

[Regolas]

While I agree that making these zones 90 mins gives the farmers even greater ability to earn plat faster, reducing the plat amount will not really help imo. This whole game is based on supply and demand. The latest loot on the broker sells for much more when it's new and becomes less as supply exceeds demand. Those who dedicate themselves to plat farming play a lot, and will find a way to get that plat one way or another. Eventually, like Altan, they have enough as there's nothing for them to buy and it sits in their bank, so they slow down or stop farming. Meanwhile, theres people like me who play an hour here or there and have never had more than 500pp and only have one toon. I won't be able to take much advantage of the timer reductions. I may get 2 runs in a session rather than 1, whereas someone with 10 toons playing for 6 hours can get 40 runs. If you lower the plat in chests, it may slow down inflation, but I'll still have to wait the same amount of time till I can afford to buy something due to my playtime. It's more likely the item i want will reduce in price as it gets superceded by something else, supply and demand again. This game rewards people that dedicate time to it, and always will. But the big bucks are spent on the new stuff and then only on the rare stuff. Something that cost 1k on SLR now will be superceded by a free quested item in the next expansion, so its only the impatient and the min/maxers that are really effected by higher prices, and they're the ones who can choose to dedicate their time to farming the extra plat in the first place.

[bks6721]

What is the driving force behind farming plat?  Buying loot rights.  IF that was removed the farming would drastically decline.  It would still exist but not to the degree its currently at.

It is funny seeing OoA remain at 18hrs while all the rest of the zones that pay just as much get reduced to 90min. Mistmyr Manor is even faster than Nuroga on a FD class.

[yadlajoi]

Venom70 wrote:

I have to admit I aggree with those thinking this will tank the economy here. For me, this simply means I will stop useing the broker system once it goes the way of eq1 (Items selling for hundreds of thousands of plat) But only because I am not a fan of farming on that level. Sure I do all the runs everyone else does at this point, but for most, its a quick trip if I'm in the mood once a day, and twice a week for a a few others. The idea of needing to grind plat all day every day to keep up just does not appeal to me.

dont worry next ingame poll will be do you want to see a plat gain increaser for sell on the station market.

[Yimway]

Well this 90 minute zone timer is interesting.

Basically, every night is now:

Step 1) Do EoW

Step 2) Kill First 2 Named in D1; if rare named up kill it.

Step 3) Kill First 2 Named in D2; if rare named up kill it.

Step 4) Kill First 2 Named in D3; if rare named up kill it.

Step 5) ....

Step 6) Profit!

Step 7) Go back to Step 1.

[bks6721]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Well this 90 minute zone timer is interesting.

Basically, every night is now:

Step 1) Do EoW

Step 2) Kill First 2 Named in D1; if rare named up kill it.

Step 3) Kill First 2 Named in D2; if rare named up kill it.

Step 4) Kill First 2 Named in D3; if rare named up kill it.

Step 5) ....

Step 6) Profit!

Step 7) Go back to Step 1.

how many days in a row would you consider that to be 'fun'?

[Yimway]

Pauly@Befallen wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Well this 90 minute zone timer is interesting.

Basically, every night is now:

Step 1) Do EoW

Step 2) Kill First 2 Named in D1; if rare named up kill it.

Step 3) Kill First 2 Named in D2; if rare named up kill it.

Step 4) Kill First 2 Named in D3; if rare named up kill it.

Step 5) ....

Step 6) Profit!

Step 7) Go back to Step 1.

how many days in a row would you consider that to be 'fun'?

To be clear, I don't consider it fun TODAY.  It blows really.

However, thats the only thing I can find 5 other people interested in doing.

[Gaealiege]

I'm fine with it, Atan.  You and I can make our own competition for platinum. 

[Destria]

less then 500pp a week is a stupid low number considering in mediocre gear with only 2 lvl 90 toons, I was spending 1500-3000 plat a week, with plat leftover for the better part of 3 months, and included with the plat farming was also status farming for GH upkeep, lvling a guild hall, raiding, and general pugging through DoV content.  Then I got bored with it, and went back to slow leveling alts and joined a progression guild with a few...but, if I decide I need plat, I can get it, quickly and easily, and the 1500-3K plat a week was 1.5-3 hours a night on 2 toons farming 3-5 instances.

[Gaealiege]

I don't farm chests at all and can easily wrack in 5k+ per day.  Sony knew the repercussions of this decision, but were unconcerned.  That's more platinum to help make the SC market more robust!