I have to ask...

MrZMCool · 02-17-2012, 06:16 PM

Sony, will you be nerfing the Beastlord anytime soon? I'd like to have some idea as too how long I will get to enjoy this new class before you strip it of any fun?

Loyal Customer since 2000 EQ1, EQ2

Laenai · 02-17-2012, 06:32 PM

Its not any more or less OP than any other class in the game.

MrZMCool · 02-17-2012, 06:45 PM

Laenai@Oasis wrote:

Its not any more or less OP than any other class in the game.

This is a very generic response. One of which I am unable to refute with-out having to list each context for each class and there straights and weekness's. In which context are you refering to as "any other class"? There is solo, group, and raid.

I'm not suggesting Beastlords are OP or UP but rather are at the right amount for solo, and group. I have no experince playing a BL in a raid context.

It isn't a question of will they, but when will they nerf the BL. To be more specific, it is the developers MO to do such after about two months of a new class or content being released. I just want to know when?

Kizee · 02-17-2012, 07:21 PM

Laenai@Oasis wrote:

Its not any more or less OP than any other class in the game.

LOL

Oh and IBL

Rageincarnate · 02-20-2012, 02:28 PM

MrZMCool wrote:

Sony, will you be nerfing the Beastlord anytime soon? I'd like to have some idea as too how long I will get to enjoy this new class before you strip it of any fun?
Loyal Customer since 2000 EQ1, EQ2

It's actually a legit question.. I'm not gearing mine.. my gear is sitting in the shared bank waiting to see how bad they are going to be neutered.

Laenai · 02-20-2012, 02:31 PM

Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue:

There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian.

Farm zones? Easy.

Solo heroic content? Easy.

Hop into raid and work well? Easy.

Freejazzlive · 02-20-2012, 02:35 PM

Laenai@Oasis wrote:

There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian.

At 90th level, this might be true. At lower levels, it's false: my Beastlord is hands-down a much stronger, faster soloer than my Swashy or Troubie were at the same level.

The Beastlord is easier to play, too.

Neiloch · 02-20-2012, 03:41 PM

Properly equipped and played BL's in raids are putting out parses no other class could HOPE to touch. I'm not talking like 20% more I am talking multiples of other DPS class parses.

Honestly though I am hoping there is going to be 'beastlordification' of other classes rather than nerfing of BL's. That beastlords were simply the first class to get benefits from these design decisions since it was easier to do it with a new class rather than revamp ALL the other classes at the same time. They did say if people liked how BL's worked they would look into similar changes for all the other classes. I'm hoping that's why any BL nerfs have not been done.

I'm still confused by people being concerned about anything being OP like mercs or BL's at levels other than 90 since all of that is temporary.

Freejazzlive · 02-20-2012, 03:51 PM

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

I'm still confused by people being concerned about anything being OP like mercs or BL's at levels other than 90 since all of that is temporary.

Because some people like to do battlegrounds at T4, where Beastlords are ridiculously overpowered. That's one reason; I'm sure there are others. For example, you might not think my complaint is "valid," but at this point I'm not seeing any reason to continue playing such an absurdly over-powered class. So, in my case, it's not "temporary" at all. My BL is 37th level, & the idea of playing this LOLOP thing for 53 more levels, just so I can finally see it become slightly more in-line with other classes, makes my skin crawl.

As for how SOE will handle Beastlords: all you need do is look at their history of dealing with over-powered classes. They have not ever, to my knowledge, buffed other classes to the level of the OP one; they have, instead, always nerfed the OP class. This is because they'd have to re-tune the rest of the game to match the new power levels of the newly buffed classes, as opposed to simply tuning BLs down to what the rest of the game is tuned to.

O, yes: there will be nerfs.

Kizee · 02-20-2012, 05:00 PM

Laenai@Oasis wrote:

Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue:
There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian.
Farm zones? Easy.
Solo heroic content? Easy.
Hop into raid and work well? Easy.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Neiloch · 02-20-2012, 05:29 PM

This is what I was referring to earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...-knjQNU#t=1398s

Here's the video (plays at the specific time) where Dave basically said they are testing this beastlord style and if people like how beastlords play they will propagate some of its style to other classes. I'm hoping this is why beastlords have been allowed to be so incrddibly 'op' for so long, because they plan on buffing up other classes with similar more reactive gameplay.

Kenazeer · 02-20-2012, 05:48 PM

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

This is what I was referring to earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...-knjQNU#t=1398s
Here's the video (plays at the specific time) where Dave basically said they are testing this beastlord style and if people like how beastlords play they will propagate some of its style to other classes. I'm hoping this is why beastlords have been allowed to be so incrddibly 'op' for so long, because they plan on buffing up other classes with similar more reactive gameplay.

Let me seperate this into several parts.

Do you have faith that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of retooling the other classes?

Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the other classes without creating other lingering problems?

Do you think that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of rebalancing content around these retooled classes?

Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the rebalancing of content without creating other lingering problems?

or

Do you think it would simply be easier and less labor intensive to fix BLs?

Rageincarnate · 02-20-2012, 06:01 PM

Laenai@Oasis wrote:

Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue:
There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian.
Farm zones? Easy.
Solo heroic content? Easy.
Hop into raid and work well? Easy

lrn 2 play! why didn't i think of that...

Mohee · 02-20-2012, 07:08 PM

Kenazeer wrote:

Let me seperate this into several parts.
Do you have faith that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of retooling the other classes?
Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the other classes without creating other lingering problems?
Do you think that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of rebalancing content around these retooled classes?
Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the rebalancing of content without creating other lingering problems?
or
Do you think it would simply be easier and less labor intensive to fix BLs?

Nope

no

nuh-uh

no way

yes.

But seeing any of that happen. Chances are slim to none

Sadly I've pretty much given up all hope that SOE will fix any of the broken things of any class. It'll continue to grow worse every year, as it has done for the past 4-7 years.

Beastlords is a main selling point for AoD, so I don't think they will be nerfed for a very, very long time (if ever at all). There's more people out there than you think who actuallyed shelled out $40 just for the fact that AoD included Beastlords, even though they didnt care for ANY of the other features.

Lets not forget folks, it's not about quality anymore, it's about the $$$ in SoE's pockets

That is all.

Neiloch · 02-20-2012, 08:00 PM

Kenazeer wrote:

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
This is what I was referring to earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...-knjQNU#t=1398s
Here's the video (plays at the specific time) where Dave basically said they are testing this beastlord style and if people like how beastlords play they will propagate some of its style to other classes. I'm hoping this is why beastlords have been allowed to be so incrddibly 'op' for so long, because they plan on buffing up other classes with similar more reactive gameplay.
Let me seperate this into several parts.
Do you have faith that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of retooling the other classes?
Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the other classes without creating other lingering problems?
Do you think that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of rebalancing content around these retooled classes?
Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the rebalancing of content without creating other lingering problems?
or
Do you think it would simply be easier and less labor intensive to fix BLs?

What I see is a reoccurring pattern that you would have to been around SoE for about 10+ years to see. EQ2 is the testbed for EQNext just the same as EQ was the testbed for EQ2.

EQ2 has effectively became a proving ground for EQNext design ideas. I would be QUITE willing to bet EQNext combat will have a VERY strong resemblance to how Beastlords play, but across all classes. Along with being F2P at release. If they want to really test it out for other roles (tanks, healer, utility, non-pet DPS) they will need to apply the same general design concepts to all classes.

I wouldn't dare rule one way or the other on them tweaking Beastlords. But by your logic doing absolutely nothing to BL's would be the LEAST labor intensive and easiest therefore most likely. I can't imagine they would do nothing, what I can imagine is them 'killing two birds with one stone' and balancing things out better by testing out design ideas for their next big IP push. Just like how they fixed EQ1 warriors after players held in game strikes by introducing what was essentially an early version of EQ2's combat system.

Katz · 02-20-2012, 08:33 PM

Freejazzlive wrote:

Laenai@Oasis wrote:
There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian.
At 90th level, this might be true. At lower levels, it's false: my Beastlord is hands-down a much stronger, faster soloer than my Swashy or Troubie were at the same level.
The Beastlord is easier to play, too.

So is my SK, and my Warden, and my Necro, and my Conjy. I don't think Swashie and Troub are good nerf comparison classes.

The_Cheeseman · 02-20-2012, 09:56 PM

Here's an idea: if you enjoy playing the beastlord class, then just play it and don't worry about the future. Everything you'll ever accomplish in this game will eventually become worthless, but as long as you enjoyed the act of accomplishing it, you're not losing anything. I think beastlords are a unique and creative playstyle, so I am having a good time playing one and gearing it out. If they choose to nerf it some time in the future, that will not diminish the fun I have had up to now, and there is no guarantee that said nerf would diminish the fun of the class, anyways. Fun /= power, after all. SOE nerfing the class so severely that it's no longer fun to play would be just as bad as making the class overpowered.

Honestly, assuming the current version of the beastlord actually is overpowered (a debate in which I do not wish to participate), I don't think it's that bad a plan. A brand new class that has to compete with established characters and fit into highly competitive roles needs something as a hook just to encourage people to try it. Once enough people have given beastlords a shot, their power can be brought more into balance, having already developed an established population. I'm not claiming that is what SOE did in this case, but I certainly couldn't fault them for it.

Freejazzlive · 02-20-2012, 11:28 PM

Katz wrote:

So is my SK, and my Warden, and my Necro, and my Conjy. I don't think Swashie and Troub are good nerf comparison classes.

One would hope that comparing Scouts to other Scouts would be a good comparison

Perdigon · 02-21-2012, 11:22 AM

Freejazzlive wrote:

Katz wrote:
So is my SK, and my Warden, and my Necro, and my Conjy. I don't think Swashie and Troub are good nerf comparison classes.
One would hope that comparing Scouts to other Scouts would be a good comparison

Not really,

You should be comparing the intended dps tier of a class.

BL is meant to be T1 dps ( corect me if I am wrong ) so compare them to other T1 dps classes. Although they are T0 dps as the moment as they outshine everyone.

Will they be nerfed ? Probably not any time soon seing as they were pretty much the only selling point of AOD.

No, I think it's much more believable that any new class from now on will follow the same route as BL.

Freejazzlive · 02-21-2012, 01:38 PM

Perdigon wrote:

BL is meant to be T1 dps ( corect me if I am wrong ) so compare them to other T1 dps classes.

I can't compare them to Rangers or Assassins because I've never played either of those classes, but I have a difficult time believing that a Beastlord is more difficult than an Assassin in general gaming.

In raids, they might be, if AOEs are constantly taking out the warder, but I also get a little tired of raiding being the be-all/end-all of determining whether or not a class is well-balanced.

They won't be nerfed any time soon, no, but I do believe they will eventually be nerfed, & honestly, I'm not seeing what other new classes might be implemented.

Perdigon · 02-21-2012, 02:11 PM

Freejazzlive wrote:

I'm not seeing what other new classes might be implemented.

Oh I think they can still surprise you. Of course that is a big assumption on my part SMILEY

Davngr1 · 02-21-2012, 02:28 PM

beast lords are ahead of other dps classes but nerfing is not the answer. devs need to give other classes new abilities to compensate for a year or more of "nothing new". also devs should have planned out beastlord's epic/myth proggression to be in line with the rest of the classes.

Rosss · 02-21-2012, 05:44 PM

Davngr1 wrote:

beast lords are ahead of other dps classes but nerfing is not the answer. devs need to give other classes new abilities to compensate for a year or more of "nothing new". also devs should have planned out beastlord's epic/myth proggression to be in line with the rest of the classes.

They are not going to give other classes new abilities...

They did compensate for a year or more of nothing new...why do you think the BL is so OP (do you think this was an accident?)

And they did plan out epic/myth progression. It was intended to be much better. They will be updating all other class epic/myth with a new quest line for epic/myth 2.0 in the next year.

If you think anything surrounding BL was not intended and planned by the dev/planning team you are fooling yourself.

Yimway · 02-21-2012, 06:23 PM

They have no plans to nerf BLs. Their only plan is to buff others up to them later.

Neiloch · 02-21-2012, 06:51 PM

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

They are not going to give other classes new abilities...

yes and no, imo anyway. I think FUTURE abilities, AA's etc. will be more along the lines of beastlord 'style' rather than what we have seen in the past. Predators already got a beastlord-like ability in the Heroic AA's in the form of Exploit Weakness, an ability that only does good damage after conditions are met and the player has to be more attentive relative to what was needed before.

Essentially I think beastlords are a taste of what's to come, either in EQ2 or EQNext. Otherwise they wasted A LOT of development resources and time to add one new class. And you can't deny that SoE LOVES recycling assets. (to be fair a lot of game developers like to do this)

Yimway · 02-21-2012, 07:17 PM

It is only a taste of what is to come if we as a community like what they did.

If we don't like it, expect the existing system to get buffed up to BL's, if we do like it expect more classes to be adjusted to a similar BL like mechanic.

The result in the end is the same, everyone will get buffed up next expansion. But the time until then is 'Age of the Beastlord'.

I personally like the BL like mechanics and have been asking for something like this for some time. Ideally though, the chaining of these things should require more coordination with other players. Like you should build less savagery yourself, and more savagery by somehow coordinating with your group (HO?).

Davngr1 · 02-21-2012, 08:35 PM

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:
beast lords are ahead of other dps classes but nerfing is not the answer. devs need to give other classes new abilities to compensate for a year or more of "nothing new". also devs should have planned out beastlord's epic/myth proggression to be in line with the rest of the classes.
They are not going to give other classes new abilities...
They did compensate for a year or more of nothing new...why do you think the BL is so OP (do you think this was an accident?)
And they did plan out epic/myth progression. It was intended to be much better. They will be updating all other class epic/myth with a new quest line for epic/myth 2.0 in the next year.
If you think anything surrounding BL was not intended and planned by the dev/planning team you are fooling yourself.

i didn't say it wasn't planned, i was more than not suggesting that their plan failed.

Davngr1 · 02-21-2012, 08:36 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I personally like the BL like mechanics and have been asking for something like this for some time. Ideally though, the chaining of these things should require more coordination with other players. Like you should build less savagery yourself, and more savagery by somehow coordinating with your group (HO?).

this would be amazing and i would be 100% behind something like this being incorporated in to the game. well said, sir.

Mosha D'Khan · 02-22-2012, 03:48 PM

Laenai@Oasis wrote:

Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue:
There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian.
Farm zones? Easy.
Solo heroic content? Easy.
Hop into raid and work well? Easy.
out parse other T1 dps by atleast 100k with less gear? easy

fixed it for you

Gilasil · 02-22-2012, 04:43 PM

So if top tier non-BL DPS is ~400K does that mean a raid BL managed to hit ~500K? Doesn't sound so bad if put like that.

In any event I would hope that SoE won't go doing a major nerf based a few posts by disgruntled players, many of whom are prone to complaining about pretty much anything and everything, many of whom have their own agendas.

Some of these posts are crazy. Nerf them because they do well in battlegrounds?!?!?!? Nerf them because at lower levels they kill SOLO mobs fast?!?!? Please.

They aren't going to nerf beastlords because they can kill level 20 (or 40 or 60) solo mobs fast. Probably not even level 90 mobs.

They might nerf them if there's a confluence of MANY things. But it has to be many I would hope.

Bugs and mistakes aside, SoE hasn't shown any tendency to do major nerfs lightly. Quite the opposite. They may drag their feet fixing underpowered classes (I played a bruiser for years when it was considered underpowered and useless before they made some changes causing raiders to now consider them OP). Often the nerf will only consist of changes to newly released content -- i.e. if a class which specializes in AoE is considered overpowered, the next release may feature solo mobs or vice versa.

Anyway, I very much doubt there will be a nerf before the next major expansion which will probably be around December at the earliest. Even if they decide to tone down beastlords then, they'll probably try to do it in the nature of the new content if possible. Nerfing existing abilities would be a last resort because they know it would cause a lot of people to quit.

I suppose it's just possible that a confluence of many things could get them nerfed eventually and if that happens those of us enjoying beastlords will have to deal with it. I'm sure many would just quit the game, others might muddle on for awhile. Best to just cross that bridge if we come to it. As with everything else in life there are no guarentees. We just have to take it as it comes and make what plans we can.

02-17-2012, 06:32 PM	#2
Laenai Server: Oasis Guild: Tyranny Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 634	Its not any more or less OP than any other class in the game. __________________

02-17-2012, 06:45 PM	#3
MrZMCool Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2	Laenai@Oasis wrote: Its not any more or less OP than any other class in the game. This is a very generic response. One of which I am unable to refute with-out having to list each context for each class and there straights and weekness's. In which context are you refering to as "any other class"? There is solo, group, and raid. I'm not suggesting Beastlords are OP or UP but rather are at the right amount for solo, and group. I have no experince playing a BL in a raid context. It isn't a question of will they, but when will they nerf the BL. To be more specific, it is the developers MO to do such after about two months of a new class or content being released. I just want to know when?

02-17-2012, 07:21 PM	#4
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	Laenai@Oasis wrote: Its not any more or less OP than any other class in the game. LOL Oh and IBL

02-20-2012, 02:28 PM	#5
Rageincarnate Server: Unrest Guild: Vindication Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 396	MrZMCool wrote: Sony, will you be nerfing the Beastlord anytime soon? I'd like to have some idea as too how long I will get to enjoy this new class before you strip it of any fun? Loyal Customer since 2000 EQ1, EQ2 It's actually a legit question.. I'm not gearing mine.. my gear is sitting in the shared bank waiting to see how bad they are going to be neutered.

02-20-2012, 02:31 PM	#6
Laenai Server: Oasis Guild: Tyranny Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 634	Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue: There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian. Farm zones? Easy. Solo heroic content? Easy. Hop into raid and work well? Easy. __________________

02-17-2012, 06:16 PM	#1
MrZMCool Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2	Sony, will you be nerfing the Beastlord anytime soon? I'd like to have some idea as too how long I will get to enjoy this new class before you strip it of any fun? Loyal Customer since 2000 EQ1, EQ2

02-20-2012, 02:35 PM	#7
Freejazzlive Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 704	Laenai@Oasis wrote: There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian. At 90th level, this might be true. At lower levels, it's false: my Beastlord is hands-down a much stronger, faster soloer than my Swashy or Troubie were at the same level. The Beastlord is easier to play, too. __________________ Talechaser Tuckpaw, Troubadour of Freeport Golgi Apparati, Swashbuckler of Freeport Aheedi Adaephon, Warlock of Freeport

02-20-2012, 03:41 PM	#8
Neiloch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,430	Properly equipped and played BL's in raids are putting out parses no other class could HOPE to touch. I'm not talking like 20% more I am talking multiples of other DPS class parses. Honestly though I am hoping there is going to be 'beastlordification' of other classes rather than nerfing of BL's. That beastlords were simply the first class to get benefits from these design decisions since it was easier to do it with a new class rather than revamp ALL the other classes at the same time. They did say if people liked how BL's worked they would look into similar changes for all the other classes. I'm hoping that's why any BL nerfs have not been done. I'm still confused by people being concerned about anything being OP like mercs or BL's at levels other than 90 since all of that is temporary. __________________

02-20-2012, 03:51 PM	#9
Freejazzlive Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 704	Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote: I'm still confused by people being concerned about anything being OP like mercs or BL's at levels other than 90 since all of that is temporary. Because some people like to do battlegrounds at T4, where Beastlords are ridiculously overpowered. That's one reason; I'm sure there are others. For example, you might not think my complaint is "valid," but at this point I'm not seeing any reason to continue playing such an absurdly over-powered class. So, in my case, it's not "temporary" at all. My BL is 37th level, & the idea of playing this LOLOP thing for 53 more levels, just so I can finally see it become slightly more in-line with other classes, makes my skin crawl. As for how SOE will handle Beastlords: all you need do is look at their history of dealing with over-powered classes. They have not ever, to my knowledge, buffed other classes to the level of the OP one; they have, instead, always nerfed the OP class. This is because they'd have to re-tune the rest of the game to match the new power levels of the newly buffed classes, as opposed to simply tuning BLs down to what the rest of the game is tuned to. O, yes: there will be nerfs. __________________ Talechaser Tuckpaw, Troubadour of Freeport Golgi Apparati, Swashbuckler of Freeport Aheedi Adaephon, Warlock of Freeport

02-20-2012, 05:00 PM	#10
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	Laenai@Oasis wrote: Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue: There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian. Farm zones? Easy. Solo heroic content? Easy. Hop into raid and work well? Easy. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

02-20-2012, 05:29 PM	#11
Neiloch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,430	This is what I was referring to earlier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...-knjQNU#t=1398s Here's the video (plays at the specific time) where Dave basically said they are testing this beastlord style and if people like how beastlords play they will propagate some of its style to other classes. I'm hoping this is why beastlords have been allowed to be so incrddibly 'op' for so long, because they plan on buffing up other classes with similar more reactive gameplay. __________________

02-20-2012, 05:48 PM	#12
Kenazeer Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,178	Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote: This is what I was referring to earlier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...-knjQNU#t=1398s Here's the video (plays at the specific time) where Dave basically said they are testing this beastlord style and if people like how beastlords play they will propagate some of its style to other classes. I'm hoping this is why beastlords have been allowed to be so incrddibly 'op' for so long, because they plan on buffing up other classes with similar more reactive gameplay. Let me seperate this into several parts. Do you have faith that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of retooling the other classes? Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the other classes without creating other lingering problems? Do you think that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of rebalancing content around these retooled classes? Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the rebalancing of content without creating other lingering problems? or Do you think it would simply be easier and less labor intensive to fix BLs? __________________ Come play EQ2...we have SOEmote, Dungeon Finder, and Dungeon Maker.

02-20-2012, 06:01 PM	#13
Rageincarnate Server: Unrest Guild: Vindication Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 396	Laenai@Oasis wrote: Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue: There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian. Farm zones? Easy. Solo heroic content? Easy. Hop into raid and work well? Easy lrn 2 play! why didn't i think of that...

02-20-2012, 07:08 PM	#14
Mohee Lord Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 502	Kenazeer wrote: Let me seperate this into several parts. Do you have faith that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of retooling the other classes? Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the other classes without creating other lingering problems? Do you think that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of rebalancing content around these retooled classes? Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the rebalancing of content without creating other lingering problems? or Do you think it would simply be easier and less labor intensive to fix BLs? Nope no nuh-uh no way yes. But seeing any of that happen. Chances are slim to none Sadly I've pretty much given up all hope that SOE will fix any of the broken things of any class. It'll continue to grow worse every year, as it has done for the past 4-7 years. Beastlords is a main selling point for AoD, so I don't think they will be nerfed for a very, very long time (if ever at all). There's more people out there than you think who actuallyed shelled out $40 just for the fact that AoD included Beastlords, even though they didnt care for ANY of the other features. Lets not forget folks, it's not about quality anymore, it's about the $$$ in SoE's pockets That is all. __________________ EQ'ing since 1999

02-20-2012, 08:00 PM	#15
Neiloch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,430	Kenazeer wrote: Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote: This is what I was referring to earlier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...-knjQNU#t=1398s Here's the video (plays at the specific time) where Dave basically said they are testing this beastlord style and if people like how beastlords play they will propagate some of its style to other classes. I'm hoping this is why beastlords have been allowed to be so incrddibly 'op' for so long, because they plan on buffing up other classes with similar more reactive gameplay. Let me seperate this into several parts. Do you have faith that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of retooling the other classes? Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the other classes without creating other lingering problems? Do you think that SOE has, and will devote, the resources to the task of rebalancing content around these retooled classes? Do you have faith that SOE can do this job on the rebalancing of content without creating other lingering problems? or Do you think it would simply be easier and less labor intensive to fix BLs? What I see is a reoccurring pattern that you would have to been around SoE for about 10+ years to see. EQ2 is the testbed for EQNext just the same as EQ was the testbed for EQ2. EQ2 has effectively became a proving ground for EQNext design ideas. I would be QUITE willing to bet EQNext combat will have a VERY strong resemblance to how Beastlords play, but across all classes. Along with being F2P at release. If they want to really test it out for other roles (tanks, healer, utility, non-pet DPS) they will need to apply the same general design concepts to all classes. I wouldn't dare rule one way or the other on them tweaking Beastlords. But by your logic doing absolutely nothing to BL's would be the LEAST labor intensive and easiest therefore most likely. I can't imagine they would do nothing, what I can imagine is them 'killing two birds with one stone' and balancing things out better by testing out design ideas for their next big IP push. Just like how they fixed EQ1 warriors after players held in game strikes by introducing what was essentially an early version of EQ2's combat system. __________________

02-20-2012, 08:33 PM	#16
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Freejazzlive wrote: Laenai@Oasis wrote: There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian. At 90th level, this might be true. At lower levels, it's false: my Beastlord is hands-down a much stronger, faster soloer than my Swashy or Troubie were at the same level. The Beastlord is easier to play, too. So is my SK, and my Warden, and my Necro, and my Conjy. I don't think Swashie and Troub are good nerf comparison classes.

02-20-2012, 09:56 PM	#17
The_Cheeseman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,285	Here's an idea: if you enjoy playing the beastlord class, then just play it and don't worry about the future. Everything you'll ever accomplish in this game will eventually become worthless, but as long as you enjoyed the act of accomplishing it, you're not losing anything. I think beastlords are a unique and creative playstyle, so I am having a good time playing one and gearing it out. If they choose to nerf it some time in the future, that will not diminish the fun I have had up to now, and there is no guarantee that said nerf would diminish the fun of the class, anyways. Fun /= power, after all. SOE nerfing the class so severely that it's no longer fun to play would be just as bad as making the class overpowered. Honestly, assuming the current version of the beastlord actually is overpowered (a debate in which I do not wish to participate), I don't think it's that bad a plan. A brand new class that has to compete with established characters and fit into highly competitive roles needs something as a hook just to encourage people to try it. Once enough people have given beastlords a shot, their power can be brought more into balance, having already developed an established population. I'm not claiming that is what SOE did in this case, but I certainly couldn't fault them for it. __________________

02-20-2012, 11:28 PM	#18
Freejazzlive Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 704	Katz wrote: So is my SK, and my Warden, and my Necro, and my Conjy. I don't think Swashie and Troub are good nerf comparison classes. One would hope that comparing Scouts to other Scouts would be a good comparison __________________ Talechaser Tuckpaw, Troubadour of Freeport Golgi Apparati, Swashbuckler of Freeport Aheedi Adaephon, Warlock of Freeport

02-21-2012, 11:22 AM	#19
Perdigon Master Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 25	Freejazzlive wrote: Katz wrote: So is my SK, and my Warden, and my Necro, and my Conjy. I don't think Swashie and Troub are good nerf comparison classes. One would hope that comparing Scouts to other Scouts would be a good comparison Not really, You should be comparing the intended dps tier of a class. BL is meant to be T1 dps ( corect me if I am wrong ) so compare them to other T1 dps classes. Although they are T0 dps as the moment as they outshine everyone. Will they be nerfed ? Probably not any time soon seing as they were pretty much the only selling point of AOD. No, I think it's much more believable that any new class from now on will follow the same route as BL. __________________ we will not be changing your subscription model. We've heard you folks loud and clear that you do not want items with stats introduced, you don't want players buying their way to power, etc. Your world will stay the way it has been and we will continue to support it with new content, items, etc. Smokejumper - 25/06/2010 - Source Thread

02-21-2012, 01:38 PM	#20
Freejazzlive Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 704	Perdigon wrote: BL is meant to be T1 dps ( corect me if I am wrong ) so compare them to other T1 dps classes. I can't compare them to Rangers or Assassins because I've never played either of those classes, but I have a difficult time believing that a Beastlord is more difficult than an Assassin in general gaming. In raids, they might be, if AOEs are constantly taking out the warder, but I also get a little tired of raiding being the be-all/end-all of determining whether or not a class is well-balanced. They won't be nerfed any time soon, no, but I do believe they will eventually be nerfed, & honestly, I'm not seeing what other new classes might be implemented. __________________ Talechaser Tuckpaw, Troubadour of Freeport Golgi Apparati, Swashbuckler of Freeport Aheedi Adaephon, Warlock of Freeport

02-21-2012, 02:11 PM	#21
Perdigon Master Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 25	Freejazzlive wrote: I'm not seeing what other new classes might be implemented. Oh I think they can still surprise you. Of course that is a big assumption on my part __________________ we will not be changing your subscription model. We've heard you folks loud and clear that you do not want items with stats introduced, you don't want players buying their way to power, etc. Your world will stay the way it has been and we will continue to support it with new content, items, etc. Smokejumper - 25/06/2010 - Source Thread

02-21-2012, 02:28 PM	#22
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	beast lords are ahead of other dps classes but nerfing is not the answer. devs need to give other classes new abilities to compensate for a year or more of "nothing new". also devs should have planned out beastlord's epic/myth proggression to be in line with the rest of the classes. __________________

02-21-2012, 05:44 PM	#23
Rosss Server: Everfrost Guild: Margaritaville Rank: Coconut Council Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 62	Davngr1 wrote: beast lords are ahead of other dps classes but nerfing is not the answer. devs need to give other classes new abilities to compensate for a year or more of "nothing new". also devs should have planned out beastlord's epic/myth proggression to be in line with the rest of the classes. They are not going to give other classes new abilities... They did compensate for a year or more of nothing new...why do you think the BL is so OP (do you think this was an accident?) And they did plan out epic/myth progression. It was intended to be much better. They will be updating all other class epic/myth with a new quest line for epic/myth 2.0 in the next year. If you think anything surrounding BL was not intended and planned by the dev/planning team you are fooling yourself.

02-21-2012, 06:23 PM	#24
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	They have no plans to nerf BLs. Their only plan is to buff others up to them later. __________________

02-21-2012, 06:51 PM	#25
Neiloch Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,430	Rosss@Everfrost wrote: They are not going to give other classes new abilities... yes and no, imo anyway. I think FUTURE abilities, AA's etc. will be more along the lines of beastlord 'style' rather than what we have seen in the past. Predators already got a beastlord-like ability in the Heroic AA's in the form of Exploit Weakness, an ability that only does good damage after conditions are met and the player has to be more attentive relative to what was needed before. Essentially I think beastlords are a taste of what's to come, either in EQ2 or EQNext. Otherwise they wasted A LOT of development resources and time to add one new class. And you can't deny that SoE LOVES recycling assets. (to be fair a lot of game developers like to do this) __________________

02-21-2012, 07:17 PM	#26
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	It is only a taste of what is to come if we as a community like what they did. If we don't like it, expect the existing system to get buffed up to BL's, if we do like it expect more classes to be adjusted to a similar BL like mechanic. The result in the end is the same, everyone will get buffed up next expansion. But the time until then is 'Age of the Beastlord'. I personally like the BL like mechanics and have been asking for something like this for some time. Ideally though, the chaining of these things should require more coordination with other players. Like you should build less savagery yourself, and more savagery by somehow coordinating with your group (HO?). __________________

02-21-2012, 08:35 PM	#27
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Rosss@Everfrost wrote: Davngr1 wrote: beast lords are ahead of other dps classes but nerfing is not the answer. devs need to give other classes new abilities to compensate for a year or more of "nothing new". also devs should have planned out beastlord's epic/myth proggression to be in line with the rest of the classes. They are not going to give other classes new abilities... They did compensate for a year or more of nothing new...why do you think the BL is so OP (do you think this was an accident?) And they did plan out epic/myth progression. It was intended to be much better. They will be updating all other class epic/myth with a new quest line for epic/myth 2.0 in the next year. If you think anything surrounding BL was not intended and planned by the dev/planning team you are fooling yourself. i didn't say it wasn't planned, i was more than not suggesting that their plan failed. __________________

02-21-2012, 08:36 PM	#28
Davngr1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,179	Atan@Unrest wrote: I personally like the BL like mechanics and have been asking for something like this for some time. Ideally though, the chaining of these things should require more coordination with other players. Like you should build less savagery yourself, and more savagery by somehow coordinating with your group (HO?). this would be amazing and i would be 100% behind something like this being incorporated in to the game. well said, sir. __________________

02-22-2012, 03:48 PM	#29
Mosha D'Khan Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 440	Laenai@Oasis wrote: Let me put it this way for the lulzeyerollers who don't have a clue: There is nothing I do on my beastlord that I can't do on my comparably equipped mystic, ranger, swash, brigand, defiler, inquisitor, bruiser, or guardian. Farm zones? Easy. Solo heroic content? Easy. Hop into raid and work well? Easy. out parse other T1 dps by atleast 100k with less gear? easy fixed it for you __________________

02-22-2012, 04:43 PM	#30
Gilasil Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 907	So if top tier non-BL DPS is ~400K does that mean a raid BL managed to hit ~500K? Doesn't sound so bad if put like that. In any event I would hope that SoE won't go doing a major nerf based a few posts by disgruntled players, many of whom are prone to complaining about pretty much anything and everything, many of whom have their own agendas. Some of these posts are crazy. Nerf them because they do well in battlegrounds?!?!?!? Nerf them because at lower levels they kill SOLO mobs fast?!?!? Please. They aren't going to nerf beastlords because they can kill level 20 (or 40 or 60) solo mobs fast. Probably not even level 90 mobs. They might nerf them if there's a confluence of MANY things. But it has to be many I would hope. Bugs and mistakes aside, SoE hasn't shown any tendency to do major nerfs lightly. Quite the opposite. They may drag their feet fixing underpowered classes (I played a bruiser for years when it was considered underpowered and useless before they made some changes causing raiders to now consider them OP). Often the nerf will only consist of changes to newly released content -- i.e. if a class which specializes in AoE is considered overpowered, the next release may feature solo mobs or vice versa. Anyway, I very much doubt there will be a nerf before the next major expansion which will probably be around December at the earliest. Even if they decide to tone down beastlords then, they'll probably try to do it in the nature of the new content if possible. Nerfing existing abilities would be a last resort because they know it would cause a lot of people to quit. I suppose it's just possible that a confluence of many things could get them nerfed eventually and if that happens those of us enjoying beastlords will have to deal with it. I'm sure many would just quit the game, others might muddle on for awhile. Best to just cross that bridge if we come to it. As with everything else in life there are no guarentees. We just have to take it as it comes and make what plans we can.