Critical Mitigation Removed

[gorenack]

all the time and gear and shards to get crit mit then ya just up n decide to move it for a few hundred health that ya can buy off the broker wow sony thats as genious as when all your accounts got hacked atleast i guess its you hacking the game this time

[Davngr1]

gorenack wrote:

all the time and gear and shards to get crit mit then ya just up n decide to move it for a few hundred health that ya can buy off the broker wow sony thats as genious as when all your accounts got hacked atleast i guess its you hacking the game this time

thought the part about your "gear" i don't agree with since they aren't nerfing your gear in any way..   they are just removing a moronic mechanic that should have never been in this game in the first place.   i do agree that riad/heroic shards should not just "transform" into HP adorns they should instead allow players to pop them off gear and sell/trade them for what ever shard they want.

[Rosss]

I have not had a chance to log onto test yet.  Can anyone tell me if mobs are still able to make a critical hit?

[Armawk]

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

[Rageincarnate]

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

[Rageincarnate]

Now you can see how good it is to remove crit mit?!?! like 1 in 5 people actually understands whats going on.

[Davngr1]

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

 what is this suppose to mean?

 armawk is absolutly correct.

[Zergosch]

whatever it does, i more like to know when it gona hit us?

[Zeuhl]

Not sure since from what I understand they are still having issues with the coding for innate crit bonus. I could be wrong though I haven't heard anything else about it in a while. Would be nice if they'd give us an update instead of the usual wall o' silence we get about everything else. I've got a stockpile of shards that I'm waiting to spend lol.

[Rageincarnate]

Davngr1 wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

 what is this suppose to mean?

 armawk is absolutly correct.

based on what?

Look at pants and breastplates.  Compare easy mode to hard mode to vallons bp.

Look at the stats.. Crit mit stats go way up and the other stats barely move.  It's not rocket science.

I won't deny i could be wrong.. but jesus it seems so obvious.

[Rosss]

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

 what is this suppose to mean?

 armawk is absolutly correct.

based on what?

Look at pants and breastplates.  Compare easy mode to hard mode to vallons bp.

Look at the stats.. Crit mit stats go way up and the other stats barely move.  It's not rocket science.

I won't deny i could be wrong.. but jesus it seems so obvious.

You're not wrong.  Crit mit is the major upgrade on lots of those pieces.  Any stat replacement is not a bonus.  Some of that gear should really be re-itemized with the removal of CM.

[Davngr1]

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

 what is this suppose to mean?

 armawk is absolutly correct.

based on what?

Look at pants and breastplates.  Compare easy mode to hard mode to vallons bp.

Look at the stats.. Crit mit stats go way up and the other stats barely move.  It's not rocket science.

I won't deny i could be wrong.. but jesus it seems so obvious.

You're not wrong.  Crit mit is the major upgrade on lots of those pieces.  Any stat replacement is not a bonus.  Some of that gear should really be re-itemized with the removal of CM.

if chest and legs ONLY had crit mitt then you would have a point.     how much or how little of a soon to be "useless" stat they had is trivial since the viable stats will still augment performance just as they did before the change.

on the other hand if this is just QQ because you want even more powerful "faceroll" gear then we can agree to disagree because in my opinion this game has become a scrubs dream, were gear far surpasses ability. 

[prizzard]

let me spell it out.

If they remove crit bonus from mobs, and you retain crit mit... you gain absolutely nothing by having it, due to it not being reforgeable. So removing crit mit from your gear you still gain absolutely nothing, and lose absolutely nothing.

On the other hand if you have a crit mit buff, and they remove crit bonus from mobs, you lose utility. That is being addressed by changing what these buffs do...

[Rageincarnate]

Davngr1 wrote:

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

 what is this suppose to mean?

 armawk is absolutly correct.

based on what?

Look at pants and breastplates.  Compare easy mode to hard mode to vallons bp.

Look at the stats.. Crit mit stats go way up and the other stats barely move.  It's not rocket science.

I won't deny i could be wrong.. but jesus it seems so obvious.

You're not wrong.  Crit mit is the major upgrade on lots of those pieces.  Any stat replacement is not a bonus.  Some of that gear should really be re-itemized with the removal of CM.

if chest and legs ONLY had crit mitt then you would have a point.     how much or how little of a soon to be "useless" stat they had is trivial since the viable stats will still augment performance just as they did before the change.

on the other hand if this is just QQ because you want even more powerful "faceroll" gear then we can agree to disagree because in my opinion this game has become a scrubs dream, were gear far surpasses ability. 

if chest and legs ONLY had crit mitt then you would have a point. how much or how little of a soon to be "useless" stat they had is trivial since the viable stats will still augment performance just as they did before the change.

I do have a point because those slots seem to be specifically itemized for that stat.  (CM)

on the other hand if this is just QQ because you want even more powerful "faceroll" gear then we can agree to disagree because in my opinion this game has become a scrubs dream, were gear far surpasses ability.

I don't really care what you want. 

What should be is when you kill a hm mob.. that loot should be an signifigant upgrade over easy mode period...

i have no input on facerolling, tootsierolling, or any other roll you can think of .. just stating the obvious.

[Davngr1]

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

if chest and legs ONLY had crit mitt then you would have a point. how much or how little of a soon to be "useless" stat they had is trivial since the viable stats will still augment performance just as they did before the change.

I do have a point because those slots seem to be specifically itemized for that stat.  (CM)

on the other hand if this is just QQ because you want even more powerful "faceroll" gear then we can agree to disagree because in my opinion this game has become a scrubs dream, were gear far surpasses ability.

I don't really care what you want. 

What should be is when you kill a hm mob.. that loot should be an signifigant upgrade over easy mode period...

i have no input on facerolling, tootsierolling, or any other roll you can think of .. just stating the obvious.

 seems?    chest also has avoidance stats and if avoidance was removed then those stats would become useless, thus would be removed.

 gear is all ready too powerful, there was a time when people agreed that being 15% more efficient over casual gear was sufficient but then scrubs started crying because they where being out parsed/tanked/healed by better players in inferior gear and that could just NOT HAPPEN!!! 

   asking for gear buffs is a joke..  gear is all ready way too powerful, if anything they need to find a way to close the gap so 90% of the game isn't a face roll (like it doesn't matter what keys you hit, you mash them all with your face and still win) for geared players.

  btw..  i don't give a f*** what you want either

[Rosss]

Davngr1 wrote:

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

Armawk@Everfrost wrote:

If they are removing both the need for crit-mit and the crit-mit then they are not reducing the quality of the gear in any way, and ANY stat replacing it is a bonus.

The exception would be class buffs, where having something to contribute is the point, but that seems to be being addressed.

pants and breastplates disagree with you sir. 

 what is this suppose to mean?

 armawk is absolutly correct.

based on what?

Look at pants and breastplates.  Compare easy mode to hard mode to vallons bp.

Look at the stats.. Crit mit stats go way up and the other stats barely move.  It's not rocket science.

I won't deny i could be wrong.. but jesus it seems so obvious.

You're not wrong.  Crit mit is the major upgrade on lots of those pieces.  Any stat replacement is not a bonus.  Some of that gear should really be re-itemized with the removal of CM.

if chest and legs ONLY had crit mitt then you would have a point.     how much or how little of a soon to be "useless" stat they had is trivial since the viable stats will still augment performance just as they did before the change.

on the other hand if this is just QQ because you want even more powerful "faceroll" gear then we can agree to disagree because in my opinion this game has become a scrubs dream, were gear far surpasses ability. 

You feel like the gear gap between casuals and raiders is too significant.  That when people get into the EM/HM gear that it allows them to be to powerful for what, heroic content? 

This is not the issue. 

Your opinion on the current state of gear balance is not what we are discussing. 

What we are discussing:  Is there a need to re-look at the difference between EM/HM gear when the primary difference as it stands is critical mitigation. 

When you remove that difference (based on current game stat mechanics, not your own opinions on facerolling) does another need to be adjusted to compensate?

[Felshades]

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

You feel like the gear gap between casuals and raiders is too significant.  That when people get into the EM/HM gear that it allows them to be to powerful for what, heroic content? 

This is not the issue. 

Your opinion on the current state of gear balance is not what we are discussing. 

What we are discussing:  Is there a need to re-look at the difference between EM/HM gear when the primary difference as it stands is critical mitigation. 

When you remove that difference (based on current game stat mechanics, not your own opinions on facerolling) does another need to be adjusted to compensate?

Snip for length.

When you think about it, the Drunder x2 chest is actually better than the x4 EM one factoring in everything BUT the CM for some classes whose focus is kinda "meh".

Legs possibly too. I remember there being something there about the foci on some pieces but other classes don't have it or whatnot.. but from a raw stat standpoint, for some classes the x2 pieces are superior, particularly on a class where the focus isn't end all be all required.

[Rosss]

Meridia@Crushbone wrote:

Snip'd again to shorten this up.

When you think about it, the Drunder x2 chest is actually better than the x4 EM one factoring in everything BUT the CM for some classes whose focus is kinda "meh".

Legs possibly too. I remember there being something there about the foci on some pieces but other classes don't have it or whatnot.. but from a raw stat standpoint, for some classes the x2 pieces are superior, particularly on a class where the focus isn't end all be all required.

This is pretty much exactly it.  This would be okay if Drunder x2 required EMx4 gear but we know thats not the case.

And when you remove CM (the one reason to get EM x4) does an adjustment need to be made? 

[Yimway]

Meridia@Crushbone wrote:

When you think about it, the Drunder x2 chest is actually better than the x4 EM one factoring in everything BUT the CM for some classes whose focus is kinda "meh".

Legs possibly too. I remember there being something there about the foci on some pieces but other classes don't have it or whatnot.. but from a raw stat standpoint, for some classes the x2 pieces are superior, particularly on a class where the focus isn't end all be all required.

I believe this was exactly the point Rage was trying to make.

Removing CM basically makes the gear progression of these items whacked.

Does that mean you might have to nerf some and buff others, probably so, but progression should be progressive, or people run out of reasons to play.

[Banditman]

Itemization is a mess?  When did this happen?

Oh wait . . .

[Eyema]

Im sure thats being factored in now, and possibly one of the causes of this change being delayed. The devs do read these posts/threads, and by now are aware that this change would cause items to fall out of place in progression. At this point, i would rather they just hold the change until the next expansion or tier of gear, since they can itemize those correctly from scratch and take thier time redoing what is now current, but would then be old. Only other option is to redo all current itemization (again) and more than likely the EM and heroic stuff would be getting nerfed, so that its below the HM gear. You hardly ever see them buffing up the high end of the itemization progression.

[Hamervelder]

Banditman wrote:

Itemization is a mess?  When did this happen?

Oh wait . . .

We all know the answer to that question, but the honest answer would get you banned.  Literally. 

[Davngr1]

Rosss@Everfrost wrote:

You feel like the gear gap between casuals and raiders is too significant.  That when people get into the EM/HM gear that it allows them to be to powerful for what, heroic content? 

This is not the issue. 

Your opinion on the current state of gear balance is not what we are discussing. 

What we are discussing:  Is there a need to re-look at the difference between EM/HM gear when the primary difference as it stands is critical mitigation. 

When you remove that difference (based on current game stat mechanics, not your own opinions on facerolling) does another need to be adjusted to compensate?

  see..  tht's where you're wrong about my "opinion"

 it's not so much that the "gap" between casuals and raiders is too great, it's the fact that a players ability to be "effective" is way too dependent on gear right now and one of the BIGGEST problems is finally going away (crit mitt) but now people such as your self are asking for even bigger gear padding.   

 what is gained should be effective in raiding but not amazing in heroic zones that everyone should be running.  maybe some epic only procs or a control effects immunity?  something along those lines not just continue the flat out overpowering of gear that leads to making 95% of the game trivial.     not that this game is hard or anything.

   BIG LOL at the posters comparing the next expac's X2 against the old easymode raids..  i mean really?     and you guys all agree?  that's srs lolz

[Fireface]

Noone is stating anything about requesting gear upgrades or "faceroll" gear as you call it.  The only point i have seen is that the lack of balance in item progression is further tossed out of whack when the CM is removed.  Comparing Drunder x2 to EM x4 as seperate expansions is also ignorant.  Drunder x2 was not designed to make EM x4 gear obsolete.  And if you call all of DoV "faceroll" content then i urge you to look back at ALL of the previous expansions and think about the content and time required to fully clear those raids.  If you have been facerolling everything for this long i wonder why you haven't found something else to play.  As for EM to HM DoV i believe that if  CM was never the determining factor, the itemization would look very different between the two.

[Yimway]

Davngr1 wrote:

   BIG LOL at the posters comparing the next expac's X2 against the old easymode raids..  i mean really?     and you guys all agree?  that's srs lolz

1) It wasn't a new expac, drunder was just a content update.2) Dx2 is true faceroll content and your suggesting that the rewards should be better than launch EMx4 gear.

I get a big LOL out of you suggesting that the Dx2 chest would be remotely as difficult to obtain as killing EMx4 statue. And that it would be expected for the x2 to be a better item.  I'm curious how you feel about the Heroic HM chest in relation to all this as well...

The point people are trying to make is that this change further exaserbates the itemization path as it relates to difficulty.

[Davngr1]

Fireface wrote:

As for EM to HM DoV i believe that if  CM was never the determining factor, the itemization would look very different between the two.

 if there was no crit mitt there wouldn't even be an EM vs. HM.   all HM is, for the most part is a gear check the encounters are essentially the same.

 was there hard more or easy mode in KoS?  EoF? RoK?  nope and raiding was fun, funner than it is now or ever was.   gear checks is what sucks.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

   BIG LOL at the posters comparing the next expac's X2 against the old easymode raids..  i mean really?     and you guys all agree?  that's srs lolz

1) It wasn't a new expac, drunder was just a content update.2) Dx2 is true faceroll content and your suggesting that the rewards should be better than launch EMx4 gear.

I get a big LOL out of you suggesting that the Dx2 chest would be remotely as difficult to obtain as killing EMx4 statue. And that it would be expected for the x2 to be a better item.  I'm curious how you feel about the Heroic HM chest in relation to all this as well...

The point people are trying to make is that this change further exaserbates the itemization path as it relates to difficulty.

  you're srsly going to compare year old content with new content released a couple months ago?  srsly?

      year old content will always be inferior to current content even if released mid expansion not a year later like this content was, regardless of difficulty.     maybe DMP in your opinion was easier than Vymm's laboratory?   should his loot been better than labs?

     yes, i agree that heroic proggression is a clusterfugg

[Rosss]

 Davngr1 wrote:

BIG LOL at the posters comparing the next expac's X2 against the old easymode raids.. i mean really? and you guys all agree? that's srs lolz

LOL do you play the same game as the rest of us?

Please re-read what Atan posted above.

[Ogdinmar]

I personally think this is both a good an bad thing.  I think that if they are goin to do it good but they should maybe consider keeping it for hm to keep a gap there(just a thought) This way there is something to shoot for with "Hard Mode". then just make the instances and regular raids no CM.  except the "HM" instances. but the catch is and this im sorry to say is where the ball gets dropped, the gear has to maintain balance. Either way though sounds like they have made up their mind.

[Yimway]

Davngr1 wrote:

  you're srsly going to compare year old content with new content released a couple months ago?  srsly?

Sure, a x2 added 6 months into the current tier/expansion shouldn't have better loot than the x4 gear of the same current tier.

The would have been like WoE launching and droping better gear than the x4's from TSO launch (remember woe came in roughly the same point in TSO as Dx2 came into DoV).  It launched and dropped better gear than the previous tiers raid gear.  So yeah, dx2 being better than SF, sure makes sense.  dx2 being better than dov x4 mobs, not so much.  Not unless you ramp up the difficulty of Dx2, cause it is seriously easy stuff.

[Davngr1]

EM gear and x2 drunder is about the same with EM being slighly better because the focus allows an extra red adorn(with out CM).  that's not what is wrong with progression at all and it's not the first x2 to be released on the tail end of an expansion with better drops than x4's.