30 Days, 10 Crafters, 300 Attempts, ZERO Reactants

[Deveryn]

Deornwulf wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

...

People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. ...

No.

I am spending 5 or so days researching a recipe that there will never be enough raw materials to make more than a couple of those items. 

All of my 90 crafters are 90 adventurers, i would love a couple of reactants for chest pieces since PuGing is dead.  I have yet to get 1 reactant (the only real allure for a ts assistant) in over 360 tries.  Getting 1 try PER DAY makes it far rarer than rares were even at launch. Yes i've been playing since 12/2004.  I was in my 30s before I knew there even were rares to be harvested, I know rare.

Because they are so rare the prices are overly inflated, 1200p on my server.  which for a chest piece, since we have this one guy who bids near a thousand on every EM auction there is, is probably a deal.

These should be raining like candy because they are adequate for stepping into raiding, and because the entire heroic grouping system is completely busted.  Think about every non raiding person wanting close to 20 of them the likelyhood could go up by several orders of magnitude and not come close to meeting what the demand will be.

At the very least they should put in after so many tries you auto get one. 

Would you raid for 40 days without getting a single piece of gear?  would you go through a dungeon 40 times without getting any benefit from it?

No, but I also wouldn't craft everyday with the expectation of getting what basically amounts to adventure loot on a regular basis. I would go group to get that loot.

If an adjustment is to be made, it should be made where they drop more in heroic dungeons, not where someone spends a hot minute crafting a basket.

I would love to have a serious crafting quest that was actually long and involved if it meant I had a better chance at getting a reactant.

I'd be willing to sacrifice a rare to creat an MC item for the quest if it gave me a better chance at getting a reactant.

I'd do either one if it guaranteed I wouldn't get a stack of common harvests as a reward, EVER.

I would even settle for the reactants being added as a POSSIBLE reward for the Mara Daily Instances.

Since the simple quest you seem to despise is the ONLY method the Devs have given pure Crafters to get a reactant, commenting on the absurdity of the rarity is justified. For some crafters, hitting the heroic content is not an option, especially if they already suffer from not having good enough gear to be accepted into a heroic group.

Crafting is supposed to be a viable, stand-alone option as a profession in EQ2. Forcing crafters to adventure or pay 1000s of plat to make items goes against that concept.

I never said I despised the apprentice quest. I don't know where you get that from.

It sounds like you're coming around to my side of the argument, but you're not quite there. You're right that crafting is supposed to be a viable, stand-alone option for EQ2. It IS a viable option in most cases.

Crafters have their gear. Adventurers have their gear. Colossal Reactant falls under only one category: Adventurer gear. I say this day after day after day, yet crafters are somehow the victim of this crime where they can't easily attain gear they probably can't even use. My lowest character is a 10 Inquisitor / 90 Armorsmith. By your logic, he has every right to get colossal reactants for gear he may never use? What sense does that make?

It makes none at all, which is why I believe you're simply bluffing and want to make a good payday off the reactants. If you legitimately believe what you're spouting about being a victim, then I feel sorry for you. I've said all I can. You'll never get the devs to change this. End of story.

[Deornwulf]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

I never said I despised the apprentice quest. I don't know where you get that from.

It sounds like you're coming around to my side of the argument, but you're not quite there. You're right that crafting is supposed to be a viable, stand-alone option for EQ2. It IS a viable option in most cases.

Crafters have their gear. Adventurers have their gear. Colossal Reactant falls under only one category: Adventurer gear. I say this day after day after day, yet crafters are somehow the victim of this crime where they can't easily attain gear they probably can't even use. My lowest character is a 10 Inquisitor / 90 Armorsmith. By your logic, he has every right to get colossal reactants for gear he may never use? What sense does that make?

It makes none at all, which is why I believe you're simply bluffing and want to make a good payday off the reactants. If you legitimately believe what you're spouting about being a victim, then I feel sorry for you. I've said all I can. You'll never get the devs to change this. End of story.

Nice dodging of what I really posted. It's one thing to keep something EITHER rare or difficult to obtain. It's another to make a component so rare that players have less than a half percent chance to ever get one, with limited attempts per day.

Looking at it as a 1 character to 1 character situation. A level 90 crafter gets 1 chance of less than 0.5% to get the collossal reactant per day, that's it, end of story. On the other hand, a level 90 adventurer can spend hours and hours killing mobs that might drop the collossal reactant, having 1000s of more chances of getting the drop. That fact alone already stacks the odds in the favor of the adventurer, dramatically.

It's a fair complaint to point this out as a flawed system. That's the real complaint. Give crafters a repeatable quest comparable in time on task to the heroics adventurers can do to have more chances at the exact same drop percentage and I would be satisfied.

We can agree on one thing. I do not think that reactants should rain down on crafters every time they do the apprentice quest. I just want more options as a crafter to have more than one chance a day on a single crafter to get a reactant....of any level.

[Deveryn]

Deornwulf wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

I never said I despised the apprentice quest. I don't know where you get that from.

It sounds like you're coming around to my side of the argument, but you're not quite there. You're right that crafting is supposed to be a viable, stand-alone option for EQ2. It IS a viable option in most cases.

Crafters have their gear. Adventurers have their gear. Colossal Reactant falls under only one category: Adventurer gear. I say this day after day after day, yet crafters are somehow the victim of this crime where they can't easily attain gear they probably can't even use. My lowest character is a 10 Inquisitor / 90 Armorsmith. By your logic, he has every right to get colossal reactants for gear he may never use? What sense does that make?

It makes none at all, which is why I believe you're simply bluffing and want to make a good payday off the reactants. If you legitimately believe what you're spouting about being a victim, then I feel sorry for you. I've said all I can. You'll never get the devs to change this. End of story.

Nice dodging of what I really posted. It's one thing to keep something EITHER rare or difficult to obtain. It's another to make a component so rare that players have less than a half percent chance to ever get one, with limited attempts per day.

Looking at it as a 1 character to 1 character situation. A level 90 crafter gets 1 chance of less than 0.5% to get the collossal reactant per day, that's it, end of story. On the other hand, a level 90 adventurer can spend hours and hours killing mobs that might drop the collossal reactant, having 1000s of more chances of getting the drop. That fact alone already stacks the odds in the favor of the adventurer, dramatically.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO!!!!!!!

IT'S FOR ADVENTURER GEAR!!!!!

[Littlelove]

Deornwulf wrote:.

Getting caynar nuts and seahorse roe is also getting very old.

By doing the daily quest I can get a stack of caynar nuts faster than if I was to actually go out and harvest them!

 I don't get why people are crying over a 1 minute quest that potentially will earn them 1k plat, no matter how rare it is.

[Deornwulf]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

Deornwulf wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

I never said I despised the apprentice quest. I don't know where you get that from.

It sounds like you're coming around to my side of the argument, but you're not quite there. You're right that crafting is supposed to be a viable, stand-alone option for EQ2. It IS a viable option in most cases.

Crafters have their gear. Adventurers have their gear. Colossal Reactant falls under only one category: Adventurer gear. I say this day after day after day, yet crafters are somehow the victim of this crime where they can't easily attain gear they probably can't even use. My lowest character is a 10 Inquisitor / 90 Armorsmith. By your logic, he has every right to get colossal reactants for gear he may never use? What sense does that make?

It makes none at all, which is why I believe you're simply bluffing and want to make a good payday off the reactants. If you legitimately believe what you're spouting about being a victim, then I feel sorry for you. I've said all I can. You'll never get the devs to change this. End of story.

Nice dodging of what I really posted. It's one thing to keep something EITHER rare or difficult to obtain. It's another to make a component so rare that players have less than a half percent chance to ever get one, with limited attempts per day.

Looking at it as a 1 character to 1 character situation. A level 90 crafter gets 1 chance of less than 0.5% to get the collossal reactant per day, that's it, end of story. On the other hand, a level 90 adventurer can spend hours and hours killing mobs that might drop the collossal reactant, having 1000s of more chances of getting the drop. That fact alone already stacks the odds in the favor of the adventurer, dramatically.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO!!!!!!!

IT'S FOR ADVENTURER GEAR!!!!!

So, I'm supposed to research all of the level 90 recipes and then wait for the privilege of making those items on commission for adventurers, feeling lucky if they throw a few coins my way?

Whee.

Still doing a great job of ignoring the majority of my posts and continuing to beat your "adventurers are deserving, crafters are not" drum. It amazes me that any player finds that they can only get enjoyment out of a game when other players are deprived of something.

[LivelyHound]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

Crafters have their gear. Adventurers have their gear. Colossal Reactant falls under only one category: Adventurer gear. I say this day after day after day, yet crafters are somehow the victim of this crime where they can't easily attain gear they probably can't even use. My lowest character is a 10 Inquisitor / 90 Armorsmith. By your logic, he has every right to get colossal reactants for gear he may never use? What sense does that make?

It makes none at all, which is why I believe you're simply bluffing and want to make a good payday off the reactants. If you legitimately believe what you're spouting about being a victim, then I feel sorry for you. I've said all I can. You'll never get the devs to change this. End of story.

Barring carpenters, almost everything crafters can make is for adventurers.

Apparently, your 10 inqui should only be able to make lvl 10 armour because lets face it he'll never use the lvl 90 armour... oh and he should only really be able to craft inqui plate not guard plate items too. So gettting colossal reactants on that toon makes as much sense as him being able to make lvl 11-90 plate items he cant use. What if he was a tailor instead then he shouldnt be able to make anything but bags in the lvl 0-10 range? That makes as much sense.

Any crafter can use the gear they can make from a reactant. They can sell it or use it to produce an item they can sell to make money to by rares or fuel or recipes or fund their other toons etc. That is all most crafters can ever do and has been discussed many, many times.

But you are right when you say "You'll never get the devs to change this. End of story." If one thing has been shown over and over about EQ2 crafting it's that they will never let crafters make anything decent in a reasonable quantity to sell because they will never make crafting hard enough to warrant it. I long advocated making crafting harder, posted at your request (from this thread http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=507008) the beginnings of my ideas on how to do so in an effort to make crafting a vibale option in this thread http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=507309, discussed in lots of threads the current problems with crafting, of which this is just another version.

As it stands now nothing has changed and with the assistants nothing looks set to change and crafters are as always going to be left behind because of the adventure dropped components. This "chance" of a reactant is just so that the EQ2 management can say they threw casters a bone, when in reality the chance is so small that they may aswell have just left the reactants as adventure dungeon dropped components. It looks like a step in the right direction but with such disparate drop rates it really isnt. 

Anyway my sub ran out yesterday, and I'm not renewing so bye to all.

[Deveryn]

I've made my points. They are valid. More of them have been ignored than I have ignored others. You can continue to twist what I say, the right people can see through your nonsense.

Good riddance.

[bks6721]

yay!  I got another one!  I think thats 9 now, maybe 10.  Its nice to be able to finally upgrade some gear without having to do it through the auction channel, which is why so many are against crafters getting these in the first place.   They don't want us getting a simple quest reward, they want to sell the reactant to us lowlife scrubs who don't deserve good gear.

you people know who you are..  you hate crafters gaining access to quality gear, unless its YOU selling it to them.

[Elskidor]

9 crafters, started them sometime around christmas, unknown amount of attemps, 6 reactants. Got 6, bought a few, one was never used during a make so got to use it again, and now I've been selling them because I got the pieces I wanted. Sure it's rare and can get annoying, but that's the power of the RNG. I got a few early on and had a very long dry spell, until began to openly complain about it to friends...as I was complaining I got one, and then another and the next day I got a third one. RNG can be terrible, but eventually you'll hit the lotto.  

[Deornwulf]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

I've made my points. They are valid. More of them have been ignored than I have ignored others. You can continue to twist what I say, the right people can see through your nonsense.

Good riddance.

Your point is simple. To sum it up, you have stated that reactants are a component of adventuring gear and implied that they should really only drop for adventurers. One could reasonably conclude from your statements that you believe crafters do not really need reactants to drop from a crafting quest because the reactants are used to craft adventuring gear and you believe the crafting quest is too easy.

Extending the logic of your argument, as pointed out by some others, there should be no harvestables for any adventuring gear. All crafted adventuring gear should have the components drop in combat with mobs equal to the level of the gear.

That makes your point invalid and your argument without merit. You have not successfully disputed that having only one chance per day as a crafter to get a crafting component is not reasonable.

You also do not address the notion that crafters would be willing to have a more difficult quest if it would have a better chance at dropping a reactant nor do you discuss the merits of having the reactants drop in other difficult crafting quests.

Basically, your posts can be intepreted as expressing an opinion that the only way you can enjoy the game is to dictate to all other players that they accept the status quo merely because it is to your liking.

Surely you are not a player that can only enjoy the game if other players are denied a chance to enjoy all aspects of their profession? Is denying crafters a chance to craft Ancient Items for sale and profit really a good direction for the game? Should non-adventuring crafters be strictly limited to crafting those researched recipes on commissions, never being able to craft the items and place them for sale on the broker?

I certainly hope you do not advocate a stance of denial of fun for other players.

[Lodrelhai]

The difference between harvested gear and reactant-made gear is the quality level compared to the given baseline expectation.  Gear made from harvests - sadly now MC in the higher tiers - is often considered the minimum standard to adventure in.  So they have to be available with minimum effort, because if you outleveled your gear before you got the quests for new gear, you need a set at the minimum standard until you can get more.

Reactant gear is not a minimum standard for adventuring.  It's not just good, it is raid quality good.  Heaven knows there's been enough griping over the years about high-end stuff being too easy to get, and frankly, I'm on the side of the folks who say it shouldn't be easy.  When high-end gear is easy to get, it becomes the standard.  And then it is the default difficulty for which the next batch of content is designed.  DoV was a perfect example of this, as experts and heroic content gear from SF were the minimum requirements for the solo quests.

I fully expect the next wave of content - not to mention the next lvl cap increase - to be balanced against full experts with several masters plus either PQ or faction armor.  That, frankly, is more than enough of a challenge to me.  Make the reactants drop like candy and in a couple content patches we'll see stuff based on reactant-gear instead.  Then the devs will need to make something even better for the hard dungeons and raids, and the reactant gear will become the new "crafted junk."  To keep crafters relevant they will put in some method so crafters can make new awesome gear, probably with components that require adventuring to collect in any large amount.  And we'll be right back on these boards again, with crafters complaining they have to adventure to get the high-end adventure gear.

Can we please at least try to keep the ridiculous gear escalation to only once a year or so?  Reactant gear is only going to be the big prize as long as it is rare.

[retro_guy]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Actually you don't get it. Read some of the threads in this forum. TSers have no way to be relevent in the end game anymore. Ooo yeah, we get a 5p commission fee becasue I have the stupid recipe. LAME!

The only crafters still used for anything beyond full sets of thurg armor for alts is food/drink and ammo. If you don't make those you're irrelivent. Most of what crafter is has been taken away by the SC items. Housing shapes...cool looking gear...spell/ca upgrades. Yes, we are not being screwed...we were screwed and this is just another sign of how little importance think crafters have.

I do get it. People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. That's the one and only reason they care so much about getting reactants. They have no other use for a crafter, unless that crafter is also 90 and adventuring on a regular basis. For that reason, you will never see an increase in the drop rate.

Crafters ARE relevant right now with the reactant armor and other things they make. The real trouble is everyone is out there making everything for themselves. SC and those items have nothing to do with crafting being relevant. A lot of that appearance armor is better left to SC anyway. Imagine how bloated the recipe books would be for outfitters if they could make ALL that stuff.

If by housing shapes, you mean building blocks, those are on the way for carpenters.

Things may be a little screwed up with all the recipes being all over the place, but no one is really all that screwed.

Quite correct!

If I got the reactant there's NO WAY I'd waste it on a piece of gear for my main. No matter how good the item is, it isn't worth the amount of plat that they currently sell for.

[SOE-MOD-04]

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5709092 Removed for trolling

[WanyenII]

Which raid would drops items of similar to near identical quality/power to the mastercrafted fabled items (T9)?

I've seen a fair amount of SLR gear that was seemingly comparable sell for less.. but I don't deal with that tier of item on a regular basis to know with any certainty.  I am just curious who's toes are going to get stepped on if the flood gates were opened another notch.  Don't most of these items fall somewhere around EoW em, a group instance?  Or ToRZ: FoS, the x4?

Nm that.  Checking ZAM, the crafted items are probably even a step above what I originally thought.. in some/many aspects, but certainly not all.  In some ways they are backwards of where you probably think they fall in terms of quality...also..

I guess, if I was a raider, having this as a feasible, readily available option would be nice, as loot in raids always seems too sparse, but the rarity might exceed the rarity of the uncommon/rare raid drops.  I have nothing that indicates that, but merely suggesting the possibility.  Less empahsis on filling non visible and non-set slots should make raiding more enjoyable, no?

[Deveryn]

WanyenII wrote:

Which raid would drops items of similar to near identical quality/power to the mastercrafted fabled items (T9)?

I've seen a fair amount of SLR gear that was seemingly comparable sell for less.. but I don't deal with that tier of item on a regular basis to know with any certainty.  I am just curious who's toes are going to get stepped on if the flood gates were opened another notch.  Don't most of these items fall somewhere around EoW em, a group instance?  Or ToRZ: FoS, the x4?

I'm not sure about that where the gear lines up with other gear. I do know that no ones toes will get stepped on if adventurers see more drops in the level 90 heroic zones.

[LaeliaJS]

Since it's entirely possible for crafters to get zero colossals despite doing hundreds of tradeskill quests that are throttled to only once a day, I'd definitely say the drop rate needs to be looked at somehow. I'm not saying a colossal should be guaranteed every day or even every month, but perhaps a second quest with a greater time investment that didn't improve the research but had a slightly better chance of dropping a colossal would be nice.  Someone doing 400 quests on 10 toons with no reactant is kind of harsh.

As for the crafter/adventurer argument going on... The biggest investment going on here is *time*.  Whether you spent part of your EQ2 time going through a dungeon that drops a colossal or part of your EQ2 time going through your nine tradeskill alts in the hopes for a colossal, the time invested is roughly the same.   The penalty for death is so negligible these days that you really can't say it's "risk vs. reward".

The fact remains, though, that if the tradeskill apprentices didn't give something really REALLY good as the reward for a daily quest, no one would do them.  I sure wouldn't be doing the tradeskill apprentice recipes if there was no chance for a colossal.  I'd just let them sit for 15 days or until I remembered to pick them up.

[S_M_I_T_E]

Deornwulf wrote:

I have 10 crafters, 9 of which are now at level 90. I have completed the TS Quests every day, at least 300 times.

I have yet to get a reactant as a drop, not even on my under 90s.

I am cursed.

Not to criticize, but your strategy is flawed.

Your strategy: High volume of crafting quests increase the probability to get a colossal reactant (1000p) for the time you invested.

Your Flaw: You hope the RNG will reward you.

My strategy: Take 1 twink 90 and farm SOH/PR solo and obtain a colossal reactant for 1000p on the broker.

My Advantage: Whether the plat chests are 16p or 21p each from the RNG is irrelevant to me reaching my goal.

Your score: 0 Colossal

My Score: 1 Colossal

Your Time invested: 300 quests x 2 min each for 1 month = ~10hrs

My Time invested: 10 PR/SOH Solo runs x 20 min each for 1 month = ~3.33hrs

If you can't beat em, join em.  Plat farming is a more 'sure' way to get what you want.  It's also faster.  I resisted joining the community for ages on ethical grounds but being part of the club now is the best in game decision I've made in quite awhile. 

Play the game they put in front of you, otherwise they'll never change what just happened to you.  You spent more time and got less for your troubles than I did. 

Their TS game is inherently broken especially when it comes to earning an income per unit of RL time spent. 

Just sayin. 

Domino is no longer the TS dev for me to taunt about how broken it is because of plat farming but I'm sure someone still reads this stuff.

[S_M_I_T_E]

LaeliaJS wrote:

Whether you spent part of your EQ2 time going through a dungeon that drops a colossal or part of your EQ2 time going through your nine tradeskill alts in the hopes for a colossal, the time invested is roughly the same.  

You are absolutely wrong.  This is only true for people waiting for DROPS while adventuring.

Plat farming is 100% less time to BUY one than RNG while TSing or RNG for a DROP.

Feel Free to read my post above.

[SOE-MOD-04]

I am going to go ahead and lock this post down. There is a lot of back and forth going on here which is by SOE's definition, trolling.