necro dps scout or mage

Romulis · 09-30-2011, 10:34 AM

so i recently came back to the game and picked up my 81 necro w/110 aa and currently been running tons of diffrent stuff to build aa. well my problem is this... i have been getting many a mad people about me using scout pet over mage pet. since my mage pet. but i look and i dont see the dps diffrence and i think if anything ythe way im specced my scout pet is actually better dps. sooo why are people so stuck on mage pets?

Xalmat · 09-30-2011, 10:28 PM

Scout pet is absolute garbage, it's been proven time and time again that it can't hold a candle DPS wise to the mage pet in the best of circumstances. I can bust out the parses on epic training dummies if you wish.

luinnil · 10-04-2011, 04:36 PM

The scout pet is generally worse damage, especially solo.

I say generally because like you, in certain circumstances I can show zonewide parses that are pretty much absolutely identical comparing scout and mage pet. In a group built around melee dps and especially with no Troubador, and very few multi-enemy fights, I've found the damage to be very similar. Soulburns are ~20% more damage which can make up for the lesser dps of the scout pet.

But.. in most scenarios, you're probably best off with the mage pet since 'the scout pet can put out about equivalent damage' is not exactly a stirring call to arms to bust it out.

Xalmat · 10-04-2011, 11:38 PM

The scout pet cannot put out comparable damage if you have the slightest bit of potency, crit bonus, spell haste, reuse, or any of the pet related AAs. Basically the scout pet is outclassed extremely early on, and it never catches up.

The mediocre buffs that it provides to your group do not make up for the lack of damage output.

Ragnaphore · 10-05-2011, 05:51 AM

Main problem with Scout pet is its horrible AI. It doesn't cast its CA nearly as much as it should (Possess your pet, even if you just faceroll your keyboard you will double its DPS)

Xalmat · 10-05-2011, 11:24 PM

Ragnaphore wrote:

Main problem with Scout pet is its horrible AI. It doesn't cast its CA nearly as much as it should (Possess your pet, even if you just faceroll your keyboard you will double its DPS)

The horrible AI is only part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that it's CAs are very anemic compared to the mage pet, and it's auto-attack has no way of being boosted at remotely the same rate as it's combat arts. For it to be combat effective, it's combat arts would need half the base recast time (at a minimum) and it's auto-attack output would have to increase at the same rate as it's combat arts, in terms of attack speed, DPS mod, and multi-attack.

In short, it would need to do more single target DPS than the mage pet to be combat effective. And the only way that will happen is by a complete redesign of the pet and the way the pet shares stats.

Laiina · 10-06-2011, 02:36 AM

I don't know of a single summoner that seriously uses the scout pet for anything at all, at any level. I wish they would just trash it and make it a pet badger or something a little more useful.

Romulis · 10-06-2011, 10:45 AM

"I wish they would just trash it and make it a pet badger or something a little more useful"

I lol'ed isnt that what the ooze Crawler is haha

Muris · 10-06-2011, 05:03 PM

I break the scout out when I need a good laugh, then I quickly unsummon it before any other necromancers see it and laugh at me.

Romulis · 10-06-2011, 05:14 PM

hahah i havent played my necro since this post but idk what the lv80s scout pet looks like but i kinda like the lv70s one i think its a vampire?

Romulis · 10-07-2011, 02:56 PM

thinking i am going to betray back to conj and have soe real fun cya !

Rainmare · 10-09-2011, 12:33 AM

actually I'd like to ask in that vien what about if you have your master scout, but the AD3 mage? is the scout the better choice then?

Xalmat · 10-09-2011, 12:45 AM

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

actually I'd like to ask in that vien what about if you have your master scout, but the AD3 mage? is the scout the better choice then?

No. Even accounting for the damage differences between an Expert pet and a Master pet (which is about 14% give or take), the Expert mage pet is still vastly superior to the Master scout pet.

Romulis · 10-10-2011, 01:23 PM

switched to conj and mage pet vs scout pet now... wow can definatly tell the diffrence in the pets/classes my mage pet as conj broke way away from my master scout pet and mage pet is only expert. <3

Xalmat · 10-10-2011, 10:25 PM

Romulis@Crushbone wrote:

switched to conj and mage pet vs scout pet now... wow can definatly tell the diffrence in the pets/classes my mage pet as conj broke way away from my master scout pet and mage pet is only expert. <3

The same difference exists with the Necro scout and mage pet, believe it or not. The difference is just exascerbated with Conjurors because of the very large number of pet-centric abilities Conjurors get.

Romulis · 10-11-2011, 12:50 PM

does the necro mage pet have as many AEs as the conj mage pet? i never actually controlled (or remember controlling) my mage pet when i was necro so not sure. also when is a good time to use that if at all since it just sits on my bar collecting dust.

Xalmat · 10-11-2011, 02:02 PM

Excluding the pet-related spells that Conjurors get such as Blazing Avatar, Elemental Blast, and Elemental Unity (which Necros do not get pet-related equivalents to), and minor variations between the two pets (necro pet's spells have secondary effects that the conjuror pets do not have, such as lifetaps and debuffs), the necro mage pet and conjuror mage pet are virtually identical in every way. If you were to put the conjuror mage pet and necro mage pet head-to-head against the training dummy, without neither summoner directly influencing the pets, they would come out even.

The best time to use the mage pet (for both summoner classes) is always. There is never a situation where the scout pet is a better choice, and I do my soloing with the mage pet over the tank pet (unless I'm going up against extremely difficult content).

Romulis · 10-20-2011, 06:41 PM

yeah i dont use scout pet anymore but with necro and conj mage pets do they have the same amount of AE spells or does one favor single target more than one.

Xalmat · 10-21-2011, 10:34 PM

Romulis@Crushbone wrote:

yeah i dont use scout pet anymore but with necro and conj mage pets do they have the same amount of AE spells or does one favor single target more than one.

They have the same number of AE spells, and the same number of single target spells.

09-30-2011, 10:34 AM	#1
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	so i recently came back to the game and picked up my 81 necro w/110 aa and currently been running tons of diffrent stuff to build aa. well my problem is this... i have been getting many a mad people about me using scout pet over mage pet. since my mage pet. but i look and i dont see the dps diffrence and i think if anything ythe way im specced my scout pet is actually better dps. sooo why are people so stuck on mage pets? __________________

09-30-2011, 10:28 PM	#2
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	Scout pet is absolute garbage, it's been proven time and time again that it can't hold a candle DPS wise to the mage pet in the best of circumstances. I can bust out the parses on epic training dummies if you wish. __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

10-04-2011, 11:38 PM	#4
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	The scout pet cannot put out comparable damage if you have the slightest bit of potency, crit bonus, spell haste, reuse, or any of the pet related AAs. Basically the scout pet is outclassed extremely early on, and it never catches up. The mediocre buffs that it provides to your group do not make up for the lack of damage output. __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

10-05-2011, 11:24 PM	#6
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	Ragnaphore wrote: Main problem with Scout pet is its horrible AI. It doesn't cast its CA nearly as much as it should (Possess your pet, even if you just faceroll your keyboard you will double its DPS) The horrible AI is only part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that it's CAs are very anemic compared to the mage pet, and it's auto-attack has no way of being boosted at remotely the same rate as it's combat arts. For it to be combat effective, it's combat arts would need half the base recast time (at a minimum) and it's auto-attack output would have to increase at the same rate as it's combat arts, in terms of attack speed, DPS mod, and multi-attack. In short, it would need to do more single target DPS than the mage pet to be combat effective. And the only way that will happen is by a complete redesign of the pet and the way the pet shares stats. __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

10-06-2011, 02:36 AM	#7
Laiina Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 622	I don't know of a single summoner that seriously uses the scout pet for anything at all, at any level. I wish they would just trash it and make it a pet badger or something a little more useful. __________________

10-04-2011, 04:36 PM	#3
luinnil Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 55	The scout pet is generally worse damage, especially solo. I say generally because like you, in certain circumstances I can show zonewide parses that are pretty much absolutely identical comparing scout and mage pet. In a group built around melee dps and especially with no Troubador, and very few multi-enemy fights, I've found the damage to be very similar. Soulburns are ~20% more damage which can make up for the lesser dps of the scout pet. But.. in most scenarios, you're probably best off with the mage pet since 'the scout pet can put out about equivalent damage' is not exactly a stirring call to arms to bust it out.

10-05-2011, 05:51 AM	#5
Ragnaphore Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 715	Main problem with Scout pet is its horrible AI. It doesn't cast its CA nearly as much as it should (Possess your pet, even if you just faceroll your keyboard you will double its DPS)

10-06-2011, 10:45 AM	#8
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	"I wish they would just trash it and make it a pet badger or something a little more useful" I lol'ed isnt that what the ooze Crawler is haha __________________

10-06-2011, 05:03 PM	#9
Muris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30	I break the scout out when I need a good laugh, then I quickly unsummon it before any other necromancers see it and laugh at me. __________________

10-06-2011, 05:14 PM	#10
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	hahah i havent played my necro since this post but idk what the lv80s scout pet looks like but i kinda like the lv70s one i think its a vampire? __________________

10-07-2011, 02:56 PM	#11
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	thinking i am going to betray back to conj and have soe real fun cya ! __________________

10-09-2011, 12:33 AM	#12
Rainmare Server: Oasis Guild: Pillage Rank: Captain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,982	actually I'd like to ask in that vien what about if you have your master scout, but the AD3 mage? is the scout the better choice then?

10-09-2011, 12:45 AM	#13
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	Rainmare@Oasis wrote: actually I'd like to ask in that vien what about if you have your master scout, but the AD3 mage? is the scout the better choice then? No. Even accounting for the damage differences between an Expert pet and a Master pet (which is about 14% give or take), the Expert mage pet is still vastly superior to the Master scout pet. __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

10-10-2011, 01:23 PM	#14
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	switched to conj and mage pet vs scout pet now... wow can definatly tell the diffrence in the pets/classes my mage pet as conj broke way away from my master scout pet and mage pet is only expert. <3 __________________

10-10-2011, 10:25 PM	#15
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	Romulis@Crushbone wrote: switched to conj and mage pet vs scout pet now... wow can definatly tell the diffrence in the pets/classes my mage pet as conj broke way away from my master scout pet and mage pet is only expert. <3 The same difference exists with the Necro scout and mage pet, believe it or not. The difference is just exascerbated with Conjurors because of the very large number of pet-centric abilities Conjurors get. __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

10-11-2011, 12:50 PM	#16
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	does the necro mage pet have as many AEs as the conj mage pet? i never actually controlled (or remember controlling) my mage pet when i was necro so not sure. also when is a good time to use that if at all since it just sits on my bar collecting dust. __________________

10-11-2011, 02:02 PM	#17
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	Excluding the pet-related spells that Conjurors get such as Blazing Avatar, Elemental Blast, and Elemental Unity (which Necros do not get pet-related equivalents to), and minor variations between the two pets (necro pet's spells have secondary effects that the conjuror pets do not have, such as lifetaps and debuffs), the necro mage pet and conjuror mage pet are virtually identical in every way. If you were to put the conjuror mage pet and necro mage pet head-to-head against the training dummy, without neither summoner directly influencing the pets, they would come out even. The best time to use the mage pet (for both summoner classes) is always. There is never a situation where the scout pet is a better choice, and I do my soloing with the mage pet over the tank pet (unless I'm going up against extremely difficult content). __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

10-20-2011, 06:41 PM	#18
Romulis Server: Crushbone Guild: Ignis Caelestis Rank: Champion Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 60	yeah i dont use scout pet anymore but with necro and conj mage pets do they have the same amount of AE spells or does one favor single target more than one. __________________

10-21-2011, 10:34 PM	#19
Xalmat EQ2Achieve.com Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,895	Romulis@Crushbone wrote: yeah i dont use scout pet anymore but with necro and conj mage pets do they have the same amount of AE spells or does one favor single target more than one. They have the same number of AE spells, and the same number of single target spells. __________________ EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements