Removing critical chance from items below 80

[Silius]

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

[DuneWarrior]

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

Can you clarify... you previously specifically stated that it was all a mistake.. i take it that wasnt true?

Besides i highly doubt - no offense - that the outage was the cause of the lack of communication, mostly because ... well the outage hit AFTER 2PM and while i do understand the culture of development etc (being that i work in said culture) i find it highly suspeciious that none of you could post ANYTHING except "its abug, we will fix it"

Edit: Mixed up my devs would think i knew who was who from 7 years in eq2 and vanguard (not 7 but.. since launch)

[Valentina]

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

No offense, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting, with the knowledge that the intention (and implementation) will no doubt change another 5-10 times before you guys end up with something you think is "right" (at which time the playerbase will again have to point out all the bugs in said implementation).

[DuneWarrior]

Valentina@Butcherblock wrote:

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

No offense, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting, with the knowledge that the intention (and implementation) will no doubt change another 5-10 times before you guys end up with something you think is "right" (at which time the playerbase will again have to point out all the bugs in said implementation).

By playerbase you mean all 5?

Sorry ill get serious now

[x82nd77]

You all really don't have a clue what you're doing, do you?

[Kosh]

x82nd77 wrote:

You all really don't have a clue what you're doing, do you?

It's beyond sad.

So now they're making adjustments to the unintended changes that were being put back to normal next week?

[Syndarin]

x82nd77 wrote:

You all really don't have a clue what you're doing, do you?

This. Silius has officially ruined EQ2.GRATS.

[Xalmat]

Silius wrote:

 We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week.

This is a reasonable compromise.

[Silverzx]

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

change it back to 50, thats how it originally was after GU 61.

[Silverzx]

Kosh@Blackburrow wrote:

x82nd77 wrote:

You all really don't have a clue what you're doing, do you?

It's beyond sad.

So now they're making adjustments to the unintended changes that were being put back to normal next week?

seriously, if it was unintended, just roll back the changes.  there wasn't anything wrong with it except the few items that changed class stats...but most of it was good.  crit chance didn't even exist in every slot to begin with.

[Ilovecows]

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

I'm curious, did you guys not have generators?

[Flamewi]

Steppen@Nagafen wrote:

I'm curious, did you guys not have generators?

Generators cost money which is something SOE is rapidly running out of due to everyone leaving their game(s) like crazy because of all the management screwups over the last year or so.

Can't really fault them on that imo if they can't afford it.

[Gungo]

Steppen@Nagafen wrote:

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

I'm curious, did you guys not have generators?

Are you seriously suggesting they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get/install commercial grade generators and the underground fuel tank needed to power an entire SERVER FARM. Do you realize how much voltage a generator would need to produce to run this server farm. This is not a home generator. Furthermore for something that will likely only happen once in a blue moon and for something as insignificant as a game for a few hours. This isnt even a hospital or some emergency service. Its beyond rediculous to even consider wasting money on this BS. And I am not even joking about the mid 6 figure range. A generator system that power something like a hospital which you would need for a server farm is honestly that much to install.

[Deneir_Allaston]

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

You guys (Devs) should really consider starting the Critical Chance progression back up at level 50+ again but easing up the progression to the 80s a little smoother then it was before. The 30 character level spread ought to give you guys some good wiggle room especially when you consider item quality level spread (Handcrafted > Treasured > Mastercrafted > Legendary > Fabled) and what should be a slow more natural ramp up to the 100+ Critical Chance range which is par for the course in the 80+ game.

I think this also fits well within the current mechanics of the game and how they are playing out. The original game was 1-50, the major power increases to characters first started to come in the form of character level increases past 50, then AAs, and of course more powerful items gained from expansions going back as far as the Desert of Flames; because of this 50+ seems like a logical place to start seeing Critical Chance as a means of increasing character power come into play, even if only in relatively minor amounts.

This methodology also pairs up well with the opening up of the Shadows Tree for characters at 50; another hallmark of character power increasing and what may well be the half way point of leveling for the entire game (Im speculating here that the last actual level cap increase we may see could be 100 due to some of the talk from last Fan Faire).

[darwich]

Flamewing@Butcherblock wrote:

Steppen@Nagafen wrote:

I'm curious, did you guys not have generators?

Generators cost money which is something SOE is rapidly running out of due to everyone leaving their game(s) like crazy because of all the management screwups over the last year or so.

Can't really fault them on that imo if they can't afford it.

Seriously this again?? The whole freaking area (multi state/country) was out, whether or not they had generators.. man i cant get over how people act... Seriously???

[Urfang]

These make sense:

Silius:

"Sorry guys this is an unintended change. These will be back to their old selves next week."Kander:"This is a bug, should be resolved next patch, Tuesday I believe.""This is a bug, should be resolved ASAP.""I believe any of the changes that went in today are bugs, the items should be reverted to their state previous to today."

BUT, this makes no sense at all:

Silius:

"We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week".

What? First of all, are you sure what you are talking about? What do you mean with "crit removal" and what do you mean with "crit bearing slots". There are two concepts, critical mitigation and critical chance and they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You already made the catastrophic error (of nearly same magnitude that only one man causing blackout to millions of people in San Diego area) of mistaking these 2 things with each other in this week's patch and also letting it affect over level 80 items like EOW and DOV rare named items as well. (so that was actually two mistakes).

Shouldn't you first correct the mistake of this week before making even more mistakes as Kander says?

"Any of the changes that went in today are bugs. All items should be reverted to their state previous to today"

Please, for the sake of not ruining the best game there is, EQ2, and so that the game wont lose all its players, do nothing, except revert all changes made this week for now!

Only after making the close save (it really is the last chance, and should really be done faster than next tuesday, but at the latest on tuesday), you can think of doing something else.

-----

Ok, assuming we are back to normal after next tuesday patch. Make sure that you are talking about critical MITIGATION when you said crit removal. Also, when people say just "crit" that usually means critical CHANCE. So correct the "crit bearing slots" -> "ARMOR", because armor is usually the only thing that has critical mitigation. Don't touch critical CHANCE, except to revert them back. (There is too little critical chance in all new DOV items, for people to get the target 250 critical chance to run EOW, or 320+ for the planned new raid, so you should actually increase it a lot instead of lowering. Now people cannot effectively do even places like Temple of Rallos Zek, if their critical chance was dropped under 220 by this bug, and even less any Drunder instances. But that is another topic, correct this catastrophy first).

Also, make sure, that the scripts meant for under level 80 3-stat items (like STR/AGI/STA or INT/WIS/STA) wont affect over level 80 items like EOW and DOV rare named items. Thats because it doesn matter so much if you screw up with the under level 80 items, but screwing up over level 80 items (like what happened this week) is a huge catastrophy, causing masses of people leaving game.

If you are not sure what you are doing, dont do it, or ask the testers what they think about it first, please. I dont want to see my favorite game ruined and thats why I bothered to write this, thank you.

[Felshades]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

A Crit Chance of 15% is significant. Thus, having Crit Bonus is still useful.

While it may have been better to ramp the Crit Chance smoothly from lower tiers to endgame, something had to be done.

Without a readjustment of Crit Chance all the non heroic and heroic mobs in outdoor areas became completely trivial.

What I would have done is:

* Make the "entry level" for Crit Chance at level 60 or so.

* Ramp it up smoothly, eg. 30-40% at level 70, up to 60% at level 80...

My 75 Dirge crits pretty much all the time, with two weapons equipped she's sitting at 90% Crit Chance. What's the meaning of a critical when it becomes the default auto attack damage at level 70 ?

Also think about our AA's: my Dirge's AA that gives group wide 7.5% Critical Chance had lost its meaning. Who cares when a level 70 sword or neck piece has 10.5 to 11% Crit Chance on it?

With AA, Adorns, and a much more reasonable Crit Chance bonus on low tier items, the 1-80 game will be better off.

The other thread is in General Discussion :

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=506530

If you think DKTM has no meaning you obviously haven't gone up against mobs that have over 150% critical avoidance.

My dirge has 225% crit chance atm and I need MORE.

[Urfang]

After seeing the huge mistake of this week, I think its best to point out:

When a mob has 150 critical avoidance, you NEED 250 critical chance in end game MINIMUM.

Furthermore, most high level instances have debuffs which nearly constantly debuff your crit chances a lot. If the mob has 150 critical avoidance and you have a debuff lowering your crit chance by 100, you need 350 CC ! (If you have under 250, you never crit at all and high level encounters have been created assuming people crit 95% of the time).

You should try and count how you could possibly get the 250+ critical chance from earlier heroic instances, so that you can do EOW (without raiding, as its a heroic instance itself). Its really hilarious that you need to have raid gear to enter a heroic instance, that has nothing useful for raiders. Currently, having 250 critical chance without raiding is absolutely impossible. Even the weapons from EOW itself had too little critical chance, even before this weeks catastrophy, meaning they are just transmute trash.

[Silverzx]

who cares if we kill faster in the lower levels?  definitely not the people without 90s trying to level out of the lonely tiers!

[Alliciia]

This is just removing all the crit that was just added correct?

[Khiah]

Honestly what is the test servers for? These things were and should be done on test and the feedback the players that take their time to play and report should be read and changes applied before going live. I get things will get escaped and hotfixes needed but seriously.. ppl have replaced gear because of these changes so many times and its not just the plat they spend getting it and readorning everything but the time spent etc is getting frustrating. When I log on I wanna play not check all my gear to see if its for one there or two changed yet again.

[Silverzx]

Alliciia@Guk wrote:

This is just removing all the crit that was just added correct?

no, it removed all crit chance from all items below 80, including the ones that had crit from long time ago

[d1anaw]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

Steppen@Nagafen wrote:

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

I'm curious, did you guys not have generators?

Are you seriously suggesting they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get/install commercial grade generators and the underground fuel tank needed to power an entire SERVER FARM. Do you realize how much voltage a generator would need to produce to run this server farm. This is not a home generator. Furthermore for something that will likely only happen once in a blue moon and for something as insignificant as a game for a few hours. This isnt even a hospital or some emergency service. Its beyond rediculous to even consider wasting money on this BS. And I am not even joking about the mid 6 figure range. A generator system that power something like a hospital which you would need for a server farm is honestly that much to install.

Yes, this makes perfect sense, right? Because aftera all, having access to your GAME is right up there with making sure than hospitals have power to run the oxygen machines that keep people alive. Amazing how some minds work, isn't it?

[Deneir_Allaston]

Silius wrote:

Hey all,

Sorry for the late update but the outage hit us yesterday and I was unable to make this post. We are changing the crit removal to be a progression starting at 60 across the various crit bearing slots. You should see this next week. Once again sorry for the late update.

So according to the current "Test Update Notes" we might be ending up with this:

"Accessories should now start seeing crit starting with necks at 60 and cloak, waist, and charms at 70."

So what the heck is actually going on with Critical Chance itemization now? The update notes that have already shown up in the "Game Update Notes" section posted by Bunji also dont even outline any Critical Chance changes for the 13th at all, Im hoping you guys realized how screwy the Critical Chance progression proposed by the Test Notes are and are holding off on it until you get it right.

Also, Im pretty sure most people understand "Crit bearing slots" to be any of the following slots based upon Velious itemization... Primary, Secondary, Ranged slots typically which have MOST of a players Critical Chance then you have Neck, Waist, Cloak, and Charm slots which have lesser but significant amounts of a players Critical Chance as well. I cant help but notice that the Primary, Secondary, or Ranged slots were not even mentioned in any of the Notes. I dont know how you guys can be so obtuse about these changes?

The progression you guys had before the Hotfix a couple of days ago that removed ALL Critical Chance below 80 had the progression across the various "Crit bearing slots" pretty close to right already.. then you decided to change it entirely? If you guys felt Critical Chance was too high inbetween the Tiers all you had to do was lower it across those slots as many have already suggested starting at level 50.

All you have to do to fix it is bring back Critical Chance starting at around level 50 and ramp it up slowly across ALL the Critical Chance bearing slots: Primary, Secondary, Ranged, and Neck, Waist, Cloak, Charms. If you do it this way at least itemization will make sense in the grander scope of the course of the entire game and you wont have a situation where a single item slot in a given Tier is holding ALL of a Characters Critical Chance hostage in the terms of equipment upgrades.

[Silverzx]

what's going on? didn't you say that last week's "mistake" was going to be fixed this week?

[Fitz]

Deneir, take the arrogant tone out of your voice. The devs said they would fix critical chance. What they've done is reduce the critical chance at lower levels, and scaled it rapidly. It makes sense, since you have no need for crit at level 60, and it's just bonus dps. It increases when you actually need it. Thanks for the fix, devs. The critical chance buff on eow drops was also highly needed. Please debug the new conjuror AAs next.

[Deneir_Allaston]

Fitz wrote:

Deneir, take the arrogant tone out of your voice. The devs said they would fix critical chance. What they've done is reduce the critical chance at lower levels, and scaled it rapidly. It makes sense, since you have no need for crit at level 60, and it's just bonus dps. It increases when you actually need it. Thanks for the fix, devs. The critical chance buff on eow drops was also highly needed. Please debug the new conjuror AAs next.

Im being frank, but you can interpret my words any way you like. I genuinely do not care as it is my honest opinion.

I would also like to point out that "What they've done"... and I mean actually done, not say... hypothetically done in todays patch to "fix" Critical Chance, was absolutely nothing, Fitz.

Every item that was left without or with lower Critical Chance from 50, 60, 70, or 80 before todays patch is still completely unchanged right now on Live. Theres nothing there to even be "scaled rapidly" because nothing was added, not even in the manner the Test Notes indicated across the varying "crit bearing slots" from Tier to Tier past 60... which is what my previous post was pointing out. Necklaces are not granting Critical Chance at 60, and neither are Cloaks or Belts between 70-80ish. Not to mention full sets of MC 82+ Armor are currently granting less Critical Chance then they were Pre-GU61 because of this and thats way past level 60 obviously.

So regardless of how you personally feel about my "tone" I think my opinion is entirely justified considering these issues were supposed to be fixed by the patch today.

[Silverzx]

Fitz wrote:

Deneir, take the arrogant tone out of your voice. The devs said they would fix critical chance. What they've done is reduce the critical chance at lower levels, and scaled it rapidly. It makes sense, since you have no need for crit at level 60, and it's just bonus dps. It increases when you actually need it. Thanks for the fix, devs. The critical chance buff on eow drops was also highly needed. Please debug the new conjuror AAs next.

crit is needed at lower levels and definitely at 60 so they can continue to progress up to 90 where theres 40%+ crit on some items.  you don't really "need" to wear armor either for the solo content, but it would make sense to.

[Forge]

Fitz wrote:

Deneir, take the arrogant tone out of your voice. The devs said they would fix critical chance. What they've done is reduce the critical chance at lower levels, and scaled it rapidly. It makes sense, since you have no need for crit at level 60, and it's just bonus dps. It increases when you actually need it. Thanks for the fix, devs. The critical chance buff on eow drops was also highly needed. Please debug the new conjuror AAs next.

Did you even log in to look at the crit changes? Nothin got done. This thread is about the missin crit on items below 80 not the missing crit on the eow stuff which was covered in another thread. The last dev to even talk about it said it was gonna be fixed by now so yeah I would also like to know whats up with the crit now myself seein as nothing has even been done about it and there aint been any dev post talking about what they even plan to do.

[Silverzx]

well at this point, if nothing will be done, please just scrap all itemization changes.  the items before Gu 61 are better than they are now.  I'll live without that 1.4 crit bonus, thanks.