No troub fixes?

[Autheas]

I like the ideas about turning us into the "ranger" bard, as most of the time we are in a mage group within the raid and thus loose alot from staying ranged, or loose a lot from our poor healer forgetting about us (ok maybee that is just me).

But my idea of how to improve our class is to make our class defining abilities more active. right now its cast potm, go get a sandwitch, jcap some random dps, go make a sandwich, RO/VC, go make a sandwich, jcap again, make yet another sandwich, rinse and repeat... I don't know about you, but I don't need to be making a sandwich that often.... Give us more to do.. please... really... /cry!!!!

[tfetterman]

Autheas wrote:

I like the ideas about turning us into the "ranger" bard, as most of the time we are in a mage group within the raid and thus loose alot from staying ranged, or loose a lot from our poor healer forgetting about us (ok maybee that is just me).

But my idea of how to improve our class is to make our class defining abilities more active. right now its cast potm, go get a sandwitch, jcap some random dps, go make a sandwich, RO/VC, go make a sandwich, jcap again, make yet another sandwich, rinse and repeat... I don't know about you, but I don't need to be making a sandwich that often.... Give us more to do.. please... really... /cry!!!!

You should not have to range fights.  If you are ranging things, you aren't maximizing your dps and you are doing things wrong.  I think it is a very BAD idea to turn us into rangers.  Rangers are horrible and we do not need it compounded into the poor mechanics of a troubador.

[Brienae]

tfetterman wrote:

Autheas wrote:

I like the ideas about turning us into the "ranger" bard, as most of the time we are in a mage group within the raid and thus loose alot from staying ranged, or loose a lot from our poor healer forgetting about us (ok maybee that is just me).

But my idea of how to improve our class is to make our class defining abilities more active. right now its cast potm, go get a sandwitch, jcap some random dps, go make a sandwich, RO/VC, go make a sandwich, jcap again, make yet another sandwich, rinse and repeat... I don't know about you, but I don't need to be making a sandwich that often.... Give us more to do.. please... really... /cry!!!!

You should not have to range fights.  If you are ranging things, you aren't maximizing your dps and you are doing things wrong.  I think it is a very BAD idea to turn us into rangers.  Rangers are horrible and we do not need it compounded into the poor mechanics of a troubador.

There are some fights that are easier ranged.  For example I am not chasing Mikill around to stay in Melee.  One idea that I have had is giving us a clicky buff on our enervated that would allow us to switch between ranged and melee if we so choose. 

Any word on if we get spell auto?  I'm also wondering about juggling three different types of auto.

[tfetterman]

Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:

tfetterman wrote:

Autheas wrote:

I like the ideas about turning us into the "ranger" bard, as most of the time we are in a mage group within the raid and thus loose alot from staying ranged, or loose a lot from our poor healer forgetting about us (ok maybee that is just me).

But my idea of how to improve our class is to make our class defining abilities more active. right now its cast potm, go get a sandwitch, jcap some random dps, go make a sandwich, RO/VC, go make a sandwich, jcap again, make yet another sandwich, rinse and repeat... I don't know about you, but I don't need to be making a sandwich that often.... Give us more to do.. please... really... /cry!!!!

You should not have to range fights.  If you are ranging things, you aren't maximizing your dps and you are doing things wrong.  I think it is a very BAD idea to turn us into rangers.  Rangers are horrible and we do not need it compounded into the poor mechanics of a troubador.

There are some fights that are easier ranged.  For example I am not chasing Mikill around to stay in Melee.  One idea that I have had is giving us a clicky buff on our enervated that would allow us to switch between ranged and melee if we so choose. 

Any word on if we get spell auto?  I'm also wondering about juggling three different types of auto.

Be a scout and get better healers!

[Brienae]

I am aware that not all troubadors raid, but as a raiding troubador I can tell you that there are fights where even our brigand and swashbuckler are ranging it.  As I said Mikill is the best example.  For those who don't know the Mikill fight goes like this:  The Main Tank walks backwards in a circle praying that Mikill stays with him.  The entire raid stays in the center and ranges Mikill as he runs in a circle.  It is near impossible to keep up in order to melee.  Currently in this fight I use spells and ranged auto as has been pointed out this is only half of my abilities, so my idea is what if we could use all of our abilities in this fight and others like it requiring range?

[Laiina]

tfetterman wrote:

Autheas wrote:

I like the ideas about turning us into the "ranger" bard, as most of the time we are in a mage group within the raid and thus loose alot from staying ranged, or loose a lot from our poor healer forgetting about us (ok maybee that is just me).

But my idea of how to improve our class is to make our class defining abilities more active. right now its cast potm, go get a sandwitch, jcap some random dps, go make a sandwich, RO/VC, go make a sandwich, jcap again, make yet another sandwich, rinse and repeat... I don't know about you, but I don't need to be making a sandwich that often.... Give us more to do.. please... really... /cry!!!!

You should not have to range fights.  If you are ranging things, you aren't maximizing your dps and you are doing things wrong.  I think it is a very BAD idea to turn us into rangers.  Rangers are horrible and we do not need it compounded into the poor mechanics of a troubador.

One reason I range a lot of fights is so that I don't get out of range for the group buffs on my mage group, so yes, better ranged attacks would be nice. Trouby melee dps is kind of a joke anyway.

[tfetterman]

Laiina wrote:

tfetterman wrote:

Autheas wrote:

I like the ideas about turning us into the "ranger" bard, as most of the time we are in a mage group within the raid and thus loose alot from staying ranged, or loose a lot from our poor healer forgetting about us (ok maybee that is just me).

But my idea of how to improve our class is to make our class defining abilities more active. right now its cast potm, go get a sandwitch, jcap some random dps, go make a sandwich, RO/VC, go make a sandwich, jcap again, make yet another sandwich, rinse and repeat... I don't know about you, but I don't need to be making a sandwich that often.... Give us more to do.. please... really... /cry!!!!

You should not have to range fights.  If you are ranging things, you aren't maximizing your dps and you are doing things wrong.  I think it is a very BAD idea to turn us into rangers.  Rangers are horrible and we do not need it compounded into the poor mechanics of a troubador.

One reason I range a lot of fights is so that I don't get out of range for the group buffs on my mage group, so yes, better ranged attacks would be nice. Trouby melee dps is kind of a joke anyway.

If you are between the mob and the mages, you are in range.  Many of your mages spells are up close these days.  Your melee is not a joke if you know what you are doing.  You are a scout after all.  Why would bow shots be any better if you can't get two weapons to parse?  If you are out of the range of your healer, they need to split the difference between you and the mages.

[Brienae]

Aside from ranging abilities there are other ideas we can come up with I'm sure.  Btw you keep saying be a scout... last time I heard a Ranger was a scout... just saying.  Most fights I do melee there are some fights that require range for one reason or another.

Some other ideas I've seen are spell multi-attack.  This is not a bad idea but it only affects roughly half of our abilities unless we receive the spell auto-attack which I honestly hope we don't.  Having Melee and ranged is perfectly fine.

Making our buffs more active... not bad unless it results in the spinning I've heard legends about from EQ.

Having the ability to buff ourselves a little be more would be nice.  Looking at the Haste to Flurry benefit to me there appears to be no point.

Over all from what Xelged said I think we are looking at a full class revamp.  Hopefully there is enough of us left we can give input as to what happens in said revamp.

[tfetterman]

Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:

Aside from ranging abilities there are other ideas we can come up with I'm sure.  Btw you keep saying be a scout... last time I heard a Ranger was a scout... just saying.  Most fights I do melee there are some fights that require range for one reason or another.

Some other ideas I've seen are spell multi-attack.  This is not a bad idea but it only affects roughly half of our abilities unless we receive the spell auto-attack which I honestly hope we don't.  Having Melee and ranged is perfectly fine.

Making our buffs more active... not bad unless it results in the spinning I've heard legends about from EQ.

Having the ability to buff ourselves a little be more would be nice.  Looking at the Haste to Flurry benefit to me there appears to be no point.

Over all from what Xelged said I think we are looking at a full class revamp.  Hopefully there is enough of us left we can give input as to what happens in said revamp.

Yes, rangers are scouts, but most rangers aren't very good either. 

What they should do:

1.  Give us an ability that equates to the dirge's myth effect.  Something like making all of our CAs spells and allowing for max spell damage including procs.  (Ranging isn't going to make that happen.)2.  Add more AGI to the reactive buff to equate to what the dirge provides to a group, since we don't have an AGI buff.3.  Swap haste and dps between troubs and dirges.  We usually have an illy and they have a coercer in raids.  It would balance things out a bit.4.  Some kind of mitigation buff/root that allows for a bit easier soloing.

[Brienae]

tfetterman wrote:

Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:

Aside from ranging abilities there are other ideas we can come up with I'm sure.  Btw you keep saying be a scout... last time I heard a Ranger was a scout... just saying.  Most fights I do melee there are some fights that require range for one reason or another.

Some other ideas I've seen are spell multi-attack.  This is not a bad idea but it only affects roughly half of our abilities unless we receive the spell auto-attack which I honestly hope we don't.  Having Melee and ranged is perfectly fine.

Making our buffs more active... not bad unless it results in the spinning I've heard legends about from EQ.

Having the ability to buff ourselves a little be more would be nice.  Looking at the Haste to Flurry benefit to me there appears to be no point.

Over all from what Xelged said I think we are looking at a full class revamp.  Hopefully there is enough of us left we can give input as to what happens in said revamp.

Yes, rangers are scouts, but most rangers aren't very good either. 

What they should do:

1.  Give us an ability that equates to the dirge's myth effect.  Something like making all of our CAs spells and allowing for max spell damage including procs.  (Ranging isn't going to make that happen.)2.  Add more AGI to the reactive buff to equate to what the dirge provides to a group, since we don't have an AGI buff.3.  Swap haste and dps between troubs and dirges.  We usually have an illy and they have a coercer in raids.  It would balance things out a bit.4.  Some kind of mitigation buff/root that allows for a bit easier soloing.

I actaully like most of your ideas.  I'd prefer a mitigation buff over a root though.

[Muusic]

Xelgad wrote:

Between the massive item revamp, the addition of spell auto-attack as well as the over cap conversions and the AA revamp, we haven't had much time for class tweaks this GU. I look forward to working on the Troubador class as soon as we get some time to spare, and hopefully we'll be able to come up with something cooler than an overpowered mythical effect.

Between the massive ignoring of this subject, the addition of an overpowered Dirge buff as well as the bonuses you have devoted to every other class except Troubadors you haven't had the time? You look forward to throwing something token in our direction as soon as you "get time to spare"? Troubs are nerfed to death at this point and i ask that you seriously reconsider looking into some fixes.

Prime example of one of the many face-slaps we've gotten is Deadly dance. A buff that was supposed to "Encourage players to work together" actually only procs off spell attacks and if our mages are within 7.5m. Based on how far back the average mage stands I would say this completely removes our auto attack and in most cases our combat arts as well. While dirges can have the same effect benefitting their melle dps up close and personal with that (your words) "overpowered mythical effect" (One of them actually complained it only procced off spells if you can believe it).

This issue has been something that should have been addressed a long time ago and it isnt helpful to know we are once again going to be ignored until one day when the dev team is sitting around with nothing to do. Because we know that isnt going to happen.

[nofish]

Xelgad wrote:

Between the massive item revamp, the addition of spell auto-attack as well as the over cap conversions and the AA revamp, we haven't had much time for class tweaks this GU. I look forward to working on the Troubador class as soon as we get some time to spare, and hopefully we'll be able to come up with something cooler than an overpowered mythical effect.

Ty for the reply , would be nice to get some ETA thow as I only rading (troub) and I might take a brake untill troubs get's a fix. Plz dont nerf dirge's to try balace bards as they prolly be as boring as troubs atm.

[Valraukar]

We need some love...

(and do not nerf MA shield tree bard, you will kill 1h/shield spe...)

[Ruut Li]

Hello, I'm a mage. Please spend time on the troub class. SAVE TROUBS NOW

[Brienae]

Valraukur they took away the need to have a shield, but if you still want a shield that's up to you.  Clearly there is a concensus that we need help.  I'm hoping that "When I have time" means to totally revamp the class because I'm afraid at this point that is what's needed.

[Davngr1]

troubs are GROSSLY over overpowerd and should get a NERF!!!!

(yes, i'm trolling)

[Notes]

Some times any change will do,  I started this thread and really cannot understand why we continue not to see any tweaks at all, other than the developers are trying to find a class to throw on the garbage heap, when the Beastlords come in.  To me that looks like the Troub is the one that is going to be dumped.

I could bring up all the problems that persist with the troub class, or I could offer some suggestions.  But there is a buttload of those suggestions and posts of what needs to be done.  But looks to me like there is a lack of caring on the Devs part to do anything.  So that just leaves one possiblity to me, beastlords mean more to the current Devs than the troub class.

Noets -  playing a troub is like poking a sharp stick in my eye every night.

[Necroponic]

trouby's need love.  bump bump bump.......

if its any concelation the summoner AA revamp totaly suucks and is a nerf

[Chefren]

I'd try this:

- Position Troubs more to the caster dps side, improve the spells that are there and change one CA to a nice blue AE spell - you know the one that Bards have been asking to get for ages now.- Change the myth buff to provide a very decent chunk of spell double attack.- Review the Troubs ability to self-buff vs. the Dirge. Perhaps make the damage shield self-buff proc potency on attacks or something instead.- Look at the Troub CC abilities you once nerfed the life out of and improve them if more soloing ability is needed.

Edit: could be that points 1 & 2 make point 3 unneccesary as the self-buffage will be improved already without further changes.

[tfetterman]

Yes, I agree that our CA's should become spells, but AOE spells really don't matter since most encounters are single mobs.

Spell double attack is nothing compared to having max damage for MA on two seperate weapons.  All magic based damage should hit at the max.  This includes all procs.

Additional AGI should be added to the reactive proc to equate to what the dirge gives to the group.  We get significant amount of weapon ability skill from our gear, so maybe they should double the magic ability bonuses of Magic Song since we lack gear to provide that or add that to the reactive proc as well.

Finally, we should get a better mitigation buffs and a root for soloing.

[JazzMaus]

Nothing will cause me to stop playing my Troubie, so long as I continue playing this game.

[Nlaeni]

I've seen parses from troubs over 100k, I've seen parses over 130k  from troubs how are you guys underpowered?

[Kunaak]

Nlaene@Mistmoore wrote:

I've seen parses from troubs over 100k, I've seen parses over 130k  from troubs how are you guys underpowered?

can you just go away?

you obviously dont play a troub, and have no idea of the issues with a troub, and the information is everywhere since every troub in the game has posted the issues pretty much since launch.

the troub is a miserable class to play these days, and your not helping....

[Revery]

Nlaene@Mistmoore wrote:

I've seen parses from troubs over 100k, I've seen parses over 130k  from troubs how are you guys underpowered?

Are you trolling? If so, leave. This post is to discuss troub issues and suggested fixes. Those parses were probably from straight burn miracle fights, which we can't hit at a consistent basis like the dirges can. The dirges can probably reach those numbers with just auto attack alone all the time. I know dirges that can hit up to 250k. How is that fair, when we can barely reach a third of that amount.

You are suffering from delusions if you call troubadors overpowered. Try playing one and you will see our blight. Let the Norrathian gods have mercy on your soul.

[Nlaeni]

For the record I wasnt trolling, it was a question and you are exagerating if you think dirges can hit 100k with just auto attack. Dirges that can hit 250k are prob in top end raid guilds and odds are its not consistent 250k every time. I'm sure that required the perfect set up and everyone timing their specials. I also did not calll troubs overpowered either, I have legitimately seen good parses from troubs.

[Shotneedle]

Troubs aren't as terrible as people think. They do need a little boost, but saying they do 1/3rd of the dps of a dirge is dumb.

And dirges can pretty consistantly hit 210-250k on burn fights. Personally I've hit as high as 290k. Troubs can pretty consistantly hit 170-210k on these same fights. I've only raided on my troub once, but I had no idea what I was doing and I was still pulling 140-170ks in a meh group with half the gear of my dirge.

If I could pick one thing to change, I'd say make Jcap an Other Group type buff. Casting Jcap on everyone is easily the worst part of playing a troub, and it would cut down the casts from 6 every 2 minutes to 2 (or 4 if you're the only troub in raid).

[Davngr1]

Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Troubs aren't as terrible as people think. They do need a little boost, but saying they do 1/3rd of the dps of a dirge is dumb.

And dirges can pretty consistantly hit 210-250k on burn fights. Personally I've hit as high as 290k. Troubs can pretty consistantly hit 170-210k on these same fights. I've only raided on my troub once, but I had no idea what I was doing and I was still pulling 140-170ks in a meh group with half the gear of my dirge.

If I could pick one thing to change, I'd say make Jcap an Other Group type buff. Casting Jcap on everyone is easily the worst part of playing a troub, and it would cut down the casts from 6 every 2 minutes to 2 (or 4 if you're the only troub in raid).

 that could work but the recast would have to be extended.

[Lempo]

Nlaene@Mistmoore wrote:

For the record I wasnt trolling, it was a question and you are exagerating if you think dirges can hit 100k with just auto attack. Dirges that can hit 250k are prob in top end raid guilds and odds are its not consistent 250k every time. I'm sure that required the perfect set up and everyone timing their specials. I also did not calll troubs overpowered either, I have legitimately seen good parses from troubs.

You were trolling and you know it, even if you do no know it everyone that read it does.

You come back with this ridiculous comparison that it is probably only dirges in top end raiding gulds that hit 250K, and even then it is only under perfect conditions.

You also do not see troubs regularly parsing over 100K yet you fail to mention that, being the troll that you are you intentionally skew things.

No surpise to see that you have a 90 dirge, a lower level dirge and a troub that is level 37 which you obviously have played very little as it shows 11 hrs playtime and almost every level you achieved was through turning in collections. What really gives you away is your 90 dirge, yes you sir are and were  trolling.

[Laiina]

Nlaene@Mistmoore wrote:

I've seen parses from troubs over 100k, I've seen parses over 130k  from troubs how are you guys underpowered?

I have seen parses from Furies over 300K also. The fact that I have seen them does not make them normal, typical, average, or common.

Typical raid equipped Troub dps is in the 40 to 80K range.

[JazzMaus]

Nlaene@Mistmoore wrote:

I've seen parses from troubs over 100k, I've seen parses over 130k  from troubs how are you guys underpowered?

It's not a matter of being "under-powered"

It's a matter of significant portions of our class mechanics being BROKEN, or at best of sub-optimal functionality. These issues have existed for years, with no attention paid to them.

If you don't understand this, then you're not helping the dialog in the least, & should refrain from commenting further.