GU #61

Raahl · 07-28-2011, 12:53 PM

Guardian Enhance: Sentinel and Enhance: Taunting Blow have been removed.

What the heck! So these are no longer in the tree?

So now Sentinel and Taunting Blow gets nerfed. Am I reading this right?

Hilt · 07-28-2011, 02:39 PM

Raahl wrote:

Guardian Enhance: Sentinel and Enhance: Taunting Blow have been removed.
What the heck! So these are no longer in the tree?
So now Sentinel and Taunting Blow gets nerfed. Am I reading this right?

Yep

Raahl · 07-29-2011, 09:44 AM

These AA's didn't seem overpowered. Then again I really didn't pay much attention to them..

aislynn00 · 07-29-2011, 11:09 AM

Enhance: Taunting Blow provided a significant boost to an ability that generates more hate than most guardian CA's. It is most assuredly a nerf.

aislynn00 · 07-29-2011, 11:14 AM

By the way, I created a thread in the In Testing forum with guardian AA-specific feedback:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=504042

If you are a guardian and agree with my suggestions, please post there. If we want anything changed, I'm afraid we'll have to present a united front.

Wasuna · 07-29-2011, 11:53 AM

Mobs hit to hard in DoV to use Sentinal. Taunting Blow is a nerf. I'm not to upset by it but would prefer for it to not be removed.

Then again, I'm not sure if the changes allow us to be more straight forward with AA's to bascially compensate us for the change.

Yimway · 07-29-2011, 02:01 PM

I honestly don't care about the changes.

Sentinel was worthless.

Taunting blow was taken just cause you needed it to jump from the slaughtering line to call to arms to really get to call of shielding.

By removing these 2 from the tree, it makes enhace moderate a more viable option cause less useless points spent to get to it. And removing taunting blow presumably allows more points in more desireable dps enhancements in slaughtering to make the same tree jump for the one thing really needed thing in stability.

As I called out in the other thread though, replacing sentinal in the stability line with Enhance Guardian Sphere and allowing 1 second longer durration on the stoneskinn's per point spent would really ballance the whole thing out much better.

I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use.

Raahl · 08-01-2011, 10:39 AM

Ok I won't worry about it as the big Guardian advocates are not worried. As I don't get to play my Guardian that often, I'll defer to your judgement.

Bruener · 08-01-2011, 08:43 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use.

You are completely under-playing the usefulness of Got Your Back. For one, the adornment is a % chance to proc, and only a chance to proc based on taking melee damage. So unless the OT is actively tanking right next to you, and mobs are melee'ing them (not like Vlad) it is not going off. When it does go off with the proc % rate you might see it up half the time if you are lucky and have a good amount hits hitting you.

Got Your Back is a huge save for Fighters in raids. Think of it like the Inq temp buff....except way better in that it can hit multiple people with a single cast and save the raid a lot of incoming damage to Fighters, allowing easier healing and greater DPS all around.

There is no way we would let a Guard in the roster without having that spec'd.

Yimway · 08-02-2011, 12:32 PM

Bruener wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:
I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use.
There is no way we would let a Guard in the roster without having that spec'd.

You couldn't pay me to be in your roster =P

Yes, Vlad and a couple of other fights I *might* grab the mirror spec on, but I would never run that [Removed for Content] spec all the time.

Bruener · 08-03-2011, 11:32 AM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Bruener wrote:
Atan@Unrest wrote:
I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use.
There is no way we would let a Guard in the roster without having that spec'd.
You couldn't pay me to be in your roster =P
Yes, Vlad and a couple of other fights I *might* grab the mirror spec on, but I would never run that [Removed for Content] spec all the time.

So silly.

How about every other raid encounter in the game that AEs. You basically get to ensure protecting multiple other people by hitting that button on AEs incoming. And you can do it like every other round of AEs usually.

Are there seriously raiding Guards out there that don't spec for Got Your Back?

Wasuna · 08-03-2011, 12:43 PM

I don't have 20 points in shielding so I do not have Got Your Back. That being said, there is not a single AoE in the EM stuff I'm currently raiding that one shots any other fighter in the raid. They don't die now, their healers have to cure the group anyway so this isn't any kind of burden on the healers at all. Why would I get Got Your Back? I'm not spending 10-15 AA in shielding just so another fighter doesn't have to joust a ritual.

Your raid Guardian might have Got Your Back and it makes YOUR life easier so you assume it's a nesessity that all Guardians get it. Suck it up and spec your own defensive abilities.

Bruener · 08-03-2011, 03:26 PM

Wasuna wrote:

I don't have 20 points in shielding so I do not have Got Your Back. That being said, there is not a single AoE in the EM stuff I'm currently raiding that one shots any other fighter in the raid. They don't die now, their healers have to cure the group anyway so this isn't any kind of burden on the healers at all. Why would I get Got Your Back? I'm not spending 10-15 AA in shielding just so another fighter doesn't have to joust a ritual.
Your raid Guardian might have Got Your Back and it makes YOUR life easier so you assume it's a nesessity that all Guardians get it. Suck it up and spec your own defensive abilities.

Got Your Back as an ability alone is worth 20 points by itself.

I am not going to sit here and argue it, but if you can't see how great of an ability it is just keep on spec'ing without it. I am sure any Guard that is even half way serious about progressing has it spec'd. Heroic, that is a completely different ball game.

Wasuna · 08-03-2011, 05:27 PM

*shrug*

You being a non-guardian, I can really see why you'd like the ability. It's a 15 second AoE avoid on a base 45 second reuse. Could have it up a TON with some reasonable reuse.

I'm all about winning but I'm more about doing my job and expecting others to do the same. Other fighters can take care of themselves just fine in what I'm currently raiding.

If I get somewhere where Got Your Back was win/lose then I'd work up a mirror spec. I know what it is and what it does so it's available to me if needed.

I haven't used Sentinal for like 30 levels and taunting blow is nice but I'll see what they rearranged before I say the change is bad or not.

LygerT · 08-04-2011, 03:00 PM

Bruener wrote:

Wasuna wrote:
I don't have 20 points in shielding so I do not have Got Your Back. That being said, there is not a single AoE in the EM stuff I'm currently raiding that one shots any other fighter in the raid. They don't die now, their healers have to cure the group anyway so this isn't any kind of burden on the healers at all. Why would I get Got Your Back? I'm not spending 10-15 AA in shielding just so another fighter doesn't have to joust a ritual.
Your raid Guardian might have Got Your Back and it makes YOUR life easier so you assume it's a nesessity that all Guardians get it. [Removed for Content] it up and spec your own defensive abilities.
Got Your Back as an ability alone is worth 20 points by itself.
I am not going to sit here and argue it, but if you can't see how great of an ability it is just keep on spec'ing without it. I am sure any Guard that is even half way serious about progressing has it spec'd. Heroic, that is a completely different ball game.

how about you make a thread about it in the SK forum, you being an SK and all.

lCUBANOl · 09-01-2011, 03:55 PM

Being a MT HC raiding guardian if you dont have "Got Your Back", than you are wrong. Its silly to think this spell only used to protect other fighters. Think outside the box, I rely heavily on this spell for a ton of fights. EM/Heroic guardians do not need this.

Yimway · 09-02-2011, 01:19 PM

lCUBANOl wrote:

Being a MT HC raiding guardian if you dont have "Got Your Back", than you are wrong. Its silly to think this spell only used to protect other fighters. Think outside the box, I rely heavily on this spell for a ton of fights. EM/Heroic guardians do not need this.

With the redesign of the guardian tree, I agree with carrying this ability full time now. Previously I only mirroed it and brought it out for specific content.

I'll post another thread with current AA specs.

Humayon · 09-02-2011, 09:19 PM

Though i appreciate the restructuring of AA tree but i still can't understand that if you (SOE) thought taunting blow was really that not useful then why is that effect still on our x4 chest as a focus effect?

I suggest having sentinel strike with 15% base damage and 20% base hate increase as a focus or the same affect we had on a red adornment from SF with sentinel strike.

07-28-2011, 12:53 PM	#1
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	Guardian Enhance: Sentinel and Enhance: Taunting Blow have been removed. What the heck! So these are no longer in the tree? So now Sentinel and Taunting Blow gets nerfed. Am I reading this right? __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

07-28-2011, 02:39 PM	#2
Hilt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 286	Raahl wrote: Guardian Enhance: Sentinel and Enhance: Taunting Blow have been removed. What the heck! So these are no longer in the tree? So now Sentinel and Taunting Blow gets nerfed. Am I reading this right? Yep

07-29-2011, 09:44 AM	#3
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	These AA's didn't seem overpowered. Then again I really didn't pay much attention to them.. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

07-29-2011, 11:09 AM	#4
aislynn00 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 560	Enhance: Taunting Blow provided a significant boost to an ability that generates more hate than most guardian CA's. It is most assuredly a nerf. __________________ Karnoz Deviation Splitpaw

07-29-2011, 11:14 AM	#5
aislynn00 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 560	By the way, I created a thread in the In Testing forum with guardian AA-specific feedback: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=504042 If you are a guardian and agree with my suggestions, please post there. If we want anything changed, I'm afraid we'll have to present a united front. __________________ Karnoz Deviation Splitpaw

07-29-2011, 11:53 AM	#6
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	Mobs hit to hard in DoV to use Sentinal. Taunting Blow is a nerf. I'm not to upset by it but would prefer for it to not be removed. Then again, I'm not sure if the changes allow us to be more straight forward with AA's to bascially compensate us for the change. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

07-29-2011, 02:01 PM	#7
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	I honestly don't care about the changes. Sentinel was worthless. Taunting blow was taken just cause you needed it to jump from the slaughtering line to call to arms to really get to call of shielding. By removing these 2 from the tree, it makes enhace moderate a more viable option cause less useless points spent to get to it. And removing taunting blow presumably allows more points in more desireable dps enhancements in slaughtering to make the same tree jump for the one thing really needed thing in stability. As I called out in the other thread though, replacing sentinal in the stability line with Enhance Guardian Sphere and allowing 1 second longer durration on the stoneskinn's per point spent would really ballance the whole thing out much better. I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use. __________________

08-01-2011, 10:39 AM	#8
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	Ok I won't worry about it as the big Guardian advocates are not worried. As I don't get to play my Guardian that often, I'll defer to your judgement. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

08-01-2011, 08:43 PM	#9
Bruener Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,010	Atan@Unrest wrote: I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use. You are completely under-playing the usefulness of Got Your Back. For one, the adornment is a % chance to proc, and only a chance to proc based on taking melee damage. So unless the OT is actively tanking right next to you, and mobs are melee'ing them (not like Vlad) it is not going off. When it does go off with the proc % rate you might see it up half the time if you are lucky and have a good amount hits hitting you. Got Your Back is a huge save for Fighters in raids. Think of it like the Inq temp buff....except way better in that it can hit multiple people with a single cast and save the raid a lot of incoming damage to Fighters, allowing easier healing and greater DPS all around. There is no way we would let a Guard in the roster without having that spec'd. __________________

08-02-2011, 12:32 PM	#10
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	Bruener wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use. There is no way we would let a Guard in the roster without having that spec'd. You couldn't pay me to be in your roster =P Yes, Vlad and a couple of other fights I might grab the mirror spec on, but I would never run that [Removed for Content] spec all the time. __________________

08-03-2011, 11:32 AM	#11
Bruener Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,010	Atan@Unrest wrote: Bruener wrote: Atan@Unrest wrote: I do not understand everyone's justifications on Got Your back. The OT's can swap in the aoe avoidance rune procs and pay attention like the brigs do when they want to stay in. We don't need to dump a bunch of aa to nurse them along. It was extremely useful in SF HM stuffs before they added a war-rune aoe block proc. With the additon of the proc, it is barely justified to keep on a mirror spec I rarely/never use. There is no way we would let a Guard in the roster without having that spec'd. You couldn't pay me to be in your roster =P Yes, Vlad and a couple of other fights I might grab the mirror spec on, but I would never run that [Removed for Content] spec all the time. So silly. How about every other raid encounter in the game that AEs. You basically get to ensure protecting multiple other people by hitting that button on AEs incoming. And you can do it like every other round of AEs usually. Are there seriously raiding Guards out there that don't spec for Got Your Back? __________________

08-03-2011, 12:43 PM	#12
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	I don't have 20 points in shielding so I do not have Got Your Back. That being said, there is not a single AoE in the EM stuff I'm currently raiding that one shots any other fighter in the raid. They don't die now, their healers have to cure the group anyway so this isn't any kind of burden on the healers at all. Why would I get Got Your Back? I'm not spending 10-15 AA in shielding just so another fighter doesn't have to joust a ritual. Your raid Guardian might have Got Your Back and it makes YOUR life easier so you assume it's a nesessity that all Guardians get it. Suck it up and spec your own defensive abilities. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

08-03-2011, 03:26 PM	#13
Bruener Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,010	Wasuna wrote: I don't have 20 points in shielding so I do not have Got Your Back. That being said, there is not a single AoE in the EM stuff I'm currently raiding that one shots any other fighter in the raid. They don't die now, their healers have to cure the group anyway so this isn't any kind of burden on the healers at all. Why would I get Got Your Back? I'm not spending 10-15 AA in shielding just so another fighter doesn't have to joust a ritual. Your raid Guardian might have Got Your Back and it makes YOUR life easier so you assume it's a nesessity that all Guardians get it. Suck it up and spec your own defensive abilities. Got Your Back as an ability alone is worth 20 points by itself. I am not going to sit here and argue it, but if you can't see how great of an ability it is just keep on spec'ing without it. I am sure any Guard that is even half way serious about progressing has it spec'd. Heroic, that is a completely different ball game. __________________

08-03-2011, 05:27 PM	#14
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	shrug You being a non-guardian, I can really see why you'd like the ability. It's a 15 second AoE avoid on a base 45 second reuse. Could have it up a TON with some reasonable reuse. I'm all about winning but I'm more about doing my job and expecting others to do the same. Other fighters can take care of themselves just fine in what I'm currently raiding. If I get somewhere where Got Your Back was win/lose then I'd work up a mirror spec. I know what it is and what it does so it's available to me if needed. I haven't used Sentinal for like 30 levels and taunting blow is nice but I'll see what they rearranged before I say the change is bad or not. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

08-04-2011, 03:00 PM	#15
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	Bruener wrote: Wasuna wrote: I don't have 20 points in shielding so I do not have Got Your Back. That being said, there is not a single AoE in the EM stuff I'm currently raiding that one shots any other fighter in the raid. They don't die now, their healers have to cure the group anyway so this isn't any kind of burden on the healers at all. Why would I get Got Your Back? I'm not spending 10-15 AA in shielding just so another fighter doesn't have to joust a ritual. Your raid Guardian might have Got Your Back and it makes YOUR life easier so you assume it's a nesessity that all Guardians get it. [Removed for Content] it up and spec your own defensive abilities. Got Your Back as an ability alone is worth 20 points by itself. I am not going to sit here and argue it, but if you can't see how great of an ability it is just keep on spec'ing without it. I am sure any Guard that is even half way serious about progressing has it spec'd. Heroic, that is a completely different ball game. how about you make a thread about it in the SK forum, you being an SK and all.

09-01-2011, 03:55 PM	#16
lCUBANOl Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 62	Being a MT HC raiding guardian if you dont have "Got Your Back", than you are wrong. Its silly to think this spell only used to protect other fighters. Think outside the box, I rely heavily on this spell for a ton of fights. EM/Heroic guardians do not need this.

09-02-2011, 01:19 PM	#17
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	lCUBANOl wrote: Being a MT HC raiding guardian if you dont have "Got Your Back", than you are wrong. Its silly to think this spell only used to protect other fighters. Think outside the box, I rely heavily on this spell for a ton of fights. EM/Heroic guardians do not need this. With the redesign of the guardian tree, I agree with carrying this ability full time now. Previously I only mirroed it and brought it out for specific content. I'll post another thread with current AA specs. __________________

09-02-2011, 09:19 PM	#18
Humayon Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 58	Though i appreciate the restructuring of AA tree but i still can't understand that if you (SOE) thought taunting blow was really that not useful then why is that effect still on our x4 chest as a focus effect? I suggest having sentinel strike with 15% base damage and 20% base hate increase as a focus or the same affect we had on a red adornment from SF with sentinel strike.