If you bring back the old fame system

[crumpledmonkey]

Titles mean nothing.

Anybody can get and maintain any title they want. They have been able to do that from day one.

Anybody that pvps on this server knows who can pvp and who cant. When i go out to pvp i look at peoples name. I know who i can take, who i need to have my A game on for, who i need to run from, and a select few who just make me log off and go cry in the corner.

No matter what system they come up with titles will mean nothing.

[Neskonlith]

Can you imagine the competition and eagerness to fight for pvp titles if they were rare?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

With limits on numbers of titles, when you see a Master or a General, you'll know they earned it! 

[EndevorX]

Neskonlith wrote:

Can you imagine the competition and eagerness to fight for pvp titles if they were rare?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

With limits on numbers of titles, when you see a Master or a General, you'll know they earned it! 

While population caps on PvP ranks is just a revised version of fame decay in essence...

I'd prefer the purely classic PvP rank scheme.

I'd prefer population caps on PvP ranks per faction instead of fame decay.

[Drew69]

I was gonna stay out of this and let the 3 of you argue your point, but you're failing to do so.  old school fame was the best fame around as far as this game has had, I'm willing to give this new system Rothgar is talking about a try.  If I don't like it I can always leave again; that being said I would like to know if fame is going to be achieveable from every title or 1 title up/down like before?

[Neskonlith]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

Can you imagine the competition and eagerness to fight for pvp titles if they were rare?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

With limits on numbers of titles, when you see a Master or a General, you'll know they earned it! 

While population caps on PvP ranks is just a revised version of fame decay in essence...

I'd prefer the purely classic PvP rank scheme.

I'd prefer population caps on PvP ranks per faction instead of fame decay.

Allowing more than one Overlord is ludicrous!  Preposterous! 

There can be only one player who is the best of the best, and they cannot hide behind an artificial bracket.

All other lower titles can be shared by lesser players, but it's about time that we started to have a true pvp competition on Nagafen at the highest levels, to see who will end up as the undisputed winners.

As for AOE players, pop limits on upper titles will prevent most from wrongly attaining too high a title, and their lack of pvp skills will have the rest taking many fame hits to drop them lower to where they belong.

[Drew69]

Neskonlith wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

Can you imagine the competition and eagerness to fight for pvp titles if they were rare?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

With limits on numbers of titles, when you see a Master or a General, you'll know they earned it! 

While population caps on PvP ranks is just a revised version of fame decay in essence...

I'd prefer the purely classic PvP rank scheme.

I'd prefer population caps on PvP ranks per faction instead of fame decay.

Allowing more than one Overlord is ludicrous!  Preposterous! 

There can be only one player who is the best of the best, and they cannot hide behind an artificial bracket.

All other lower titles can be shared by lesser players, but it's about time that we started to have a true pvp competition on Nagafen at the highest levels, to see who will end up as the undisputed winners.

As for AOE players, pop limits on upper titles will prevent most from wrongly attaining too high a title, and their lack of pvp skills will have the rest taking many fame hits to drop them lower to where they belong.

with Eq2 as unballanced as it is in PVP your sense of "whose the best of the best" is hilarious at best.

[Neskonlith]

Drew69 wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

Can you imagine the competition and eagerness to fight for pvp titles if they were rare?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

With limits on numbers of titles, when you see a Master or a General, you'll know they earned it! 

While population caps on PvP ranks is just a revised version of fame decay in essence...

I'd prefer the purely classic PvP rank scheme.

I'd prefer population caps on PvP ranks per faction instead of fame decay.

Allowing more than one Overlord is ludicrous!  Preposterous! 

There can be only one player who is the best of the best, and they cannot hide behind an artificial bracket.

All other lower titles can be shared by lesser players, but it's about time that we started to have a true pvp competition on Nagafen at the highest levels, to see who will end up as the undisputed winners.

As for AOE players, pop limits on upper titles will prevent most from wrongly attaining too high a title, and their lack of pvp skills will have the rest taking many fame hits to drop them lower to where they belong.

with Eq2 as unballanced as it is in PVP your sense of "whose the best of the best" is hilarious at best.

We'll never know who the "best of the best" in the Nagafen is without weaning off the carebear crutches like the brackets that removed pvp risk from open-world.

[EndevorX]

Neskonlith wrote:

Drew69 wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

Can you imagine the competition and eagerness to fight for pvp titles if they were rare?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

With limits on numbers of titles, when you see a Master or a General, you'll know they earned it! 

While population caps on PvP ranks is just a revised version of fame decay in essence...

I'd prefer the purely classic PvP rank scheme.

I'd prefer population caps on PvP ranks per faction instead of fame decay.

Allowing more than one Overlord is ludicrous!  Preposterous! 

There can be only one player who is the best of the best, and they cannot hide behind an artificial bracket.

All other lower titles can be shared by lesser players, but it's about time that we started to have a true pvp competition on Nagafen at the highest levels, to see who will end up as the undisputed winners.

As for AOE players, pop limits on upper titles will prevent most from wrongly attaining too high a title, and their lack of pvp skills will have the rest taking many fame hits to drop them lower to where they belong.

with Eq2 as unballanced as it is in PVP your sense of "whose the best of the best" is hilarious at best.

We'll never know who the "best of the best" in the Nagafen is without weaning off the carebear crutches like the brackets that removed pvp risk from open-world.

Bro, you're gonna sound like the mindless rage of Oobo if you start claiming +/- 1 rank fame loss/gain is a carebear crutch.

Without +/- 1 rank fame loss/gain, upping titles will be relentless easymode & completely devalue gaining titles. x_x

[Neskonlith]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

We'll never know who the "best of the best" in the Nagafen is without weaning off the carebear crutches like the brackets that removed pvp risk from open-world. 

Bro, you're gonna sound like the mindless rage of Oobo if you start claiming +/- 1 rank fame loss/gain is a carebear crutch.

Without +/- 1 rank fame loss/gain, upping titles will be relentless easymode & completely devalue gaining titles. x_x

+/- 1 rank fame loss removes all pvp fame risk from outside the brackets, and narrows that risk down to a much smaller group - looks like the definition of easymode fame play.

Nobody should get a free pass from fame risk in open-world: if you want to keep your title, defend it by fighting players instead of hiding in safety behind a bracket.

[EndevorX]

Neskonlith wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Neskonlith wrote:

We'll never know who the "best of the best" in the Nagafen is without weaning off the carebear crutches like the brackets that removed pvp risk from open-world. 

Bro, you're gonna sound like the mindless rage of Oobo if you start claiming +/- 1 rank fame loss/gain is a carebear crutch.

Without +/- 1 rank fame loss/gain, upping titles will be relentless easymode & completely devalue gaining titles. x_x

+/- 1 rank fame loss removes all pvp fame risk from outside the brackets, and narrows that risk down to a much smaller group - looks like the definition of easymode fame play.

Nobody should get a free pass from fame risk in open-world: if you want to keep your title, defend it by fighting players instead of hiding in safety behind a bracket.

LOL. That is the most completely deluded garbage I've ever heard.

Do you actually think most players are a challenge for me or other competent players?

The only thing fame gain/loss from all ranks will do is completely exacerbate fame whoring & just as thoroughly destroy concern for PvP ranks in the way decay did.

If a player can move up in rank from annihilating any run of the mill or mediocre nub, why would they risk dying to challenging foes?

It isn't arrogant or conceited at all to claim that most players aren't a challenge...that's just how it is.

The likelihood of most players making a mass exodus from nubbery is zero.

+/- 1 rank fame gain/loss slows down PvP progress in a way that ensures the pastime has rivalry & longevity.

Without that limitation, it's just shooting fish in a barrel, just like fame decay that makes PvP ranks about how long you PvP instead of how effectively.

[Neskonlith]

See, here I am making an effort at avoiding derailments by unrelated-to-discussion personal potshots - how about we try to keep it clean?

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

If a player can move up in rank from annihilating any run of the mill or mediocre nub, why would they risk dying to challenging foes?

With a limited position title system, it is impossible to gain the higher levels by killing masses of "nubs". 

You could kill a million Hunters, and it will never get you from Champion to Dreadnaught because the pop limited titles above you in rank are owned by seriously ambitious pvp players.  Do you imagine that the one and only Overlord will willingly step aside to allow someone lesser to take their title?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

If one of the "no-challenge nubs" kills you, you deserve the fame loss.  A player should not be made immune from fame loss by an artificial bracket that reduces their risk.

Add in the automatic fame loss for cliff-divers and zone-hoppers, and soon enough only the best pvp players will own the few and exclusive high pvp titles - all lamers would be quickly de-ranked.

[Oobo]

Seliri you are without a doubt a walking head case, i mean really you play an OP class and claim skill and greatness over other players? Back when FAME was lost on death you were a JOKE in pvp cause your little class was just as [Removed for Content] as all other classes and you got walked on in ANY 1v1 you fought, you would constantly spam /say to block out your opponants screen to avoid him relocking on to you in SS when greys would taunt them off... You exploited the 50% life loop hole anytime you had someone in your fame bracket that caught you away from the safty of the DOCK BELL... you have always been a scrub in pvp who leeched his way to a high title and then hide to protect it behind evacs, bells and loop holes.. HOW can you claim skill with that attitude of play? the ONLY reason you are winning fights now is cause of an OP class, cause a blind monkey could roll people with a crusader..

the gibberish you are spewing, crying over fame brackets is just another FACT to your lack of pvp talent cause you KNOW if you had to defend that title to every oncomer you wouldnt hold one long if at all and thats WHY your screaming about it..... ITS A PVP TITLE...EARN, MAINTAIN IT, LVL IT with 100% RvR....thats how it should be.. you wanna PROVE your some pvp GOD then take on all pvp comers and stop looking for a crutch.. Isnt your OP class enough of one?

[Ammem]

This discussion has really moved on from what I was discussing earlier and since I stated my poisition earlier with regards to making PvE gear more potent in lower tiers with correlation to PvP gear, I shall move on.

Because we're discusing fame system and the subject of runners came up numerous times already. I think we can all agree that it sucks when somebody always evades PvP and, personally, I don't think there is a magical fix for this. But I just want to suggest that maybe we should do away with KvD ratio, since it is just another factor that contributes to shortage of PvP fights. I mean, with the system that we have right now (where it's only title decay), people still avoid fights due to trying to preserve their KvD. How about we remove this stat and just keep track of kills. Because with the change of the title system people will then avoid PvP for two or three reasons: 1) to not let their opponent receive infamy; 2) to not lose infamy (if infamy will decay after you lose in PvP like it used to); 3) to preserve KvD. I propose we eliminate at least one factor so we can focus on just the issue with titles.

Please feel free to dicuss, it's just my opinion.

p.s. my opinion is not affected by my dreadful KvD on my wizard, because I have other toons who have achieved KvD as high as 9:1 and it can always be even higher.

[max.power]

Losing/gaining fame to/from any title makes sense, so does a slow(!) online fame decay. If you aren't PvPing for let's say two weeks, losing a rank is appropriate.

If you are an active PvPer I don't think that you have to worry about fame decay at all. Only problem I see: Those people playing the "fame game" will be on their alts most of the time or under pressure on their mains doing PvE stuff ("Quick guys, quick! We need to clear the dungeon fast, my fame is decaying!!!" ). They will be seen on their main PvP toons only for PvP... but whatever. It's still better than offline decay.

Let's see how fast the decay will be, adjustments can be made later on.

[EndevorX]

Neskonlith wrote:

See, here I am making an effort at avoiding derailments by unrelated-to-discussion personal potshots - how about we try to keep it clean?

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

If a player can move up in rank from annihilating any run of the mill or mediocre nub, why would they risk dying to challenging foes?

With a limited position title system, it is impossible to gain the higher levels by killing masses of "nubs". 

You could kill a million Hunters, and it will never get you from Champion to Dreadnaught because the pop limited titles above you in rank are owned by seriously ambitious pvp players.  Do you imagine that the one and only Overlord will willingly step aside to allow someone lesser to take their title?

Overlord - there can be only ONE!

Overseer - Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three Master - Seven afk in GH of stoneGeneral - Nine doomed to die

Dreadnaught - 13 Lucky numberChampion - 50 onlyDestroyer - 200 maxSlayer - 500 maxHunter - unlimitedUntitled - unlimited

If one of the "no-challenge nubs" kills you, you deserve the fame loss.  A player should not be made immune from fame loss by an artificial bracket that reduces their risk.

Add in the automatic fame loss for cliff-divers and zone-hoppers, and soon enough only the best pvp players will own the few and exclusive high pvp titles - all lamers would be quickly de-ranked.

Population Caps on PvP ranks

Repeating your vision of population caps on PvP ranks doesn't make the idea any better.

The reason I mentioned it being better than fame decay is because title adjustment would be player controlled (relative to fame loss/gain from deaths/kills), instead of arbitrary game developer/server controlled.

Under your system, if you can't overtake someone's rank by gaining more fame XP than they have in their rank, how do you usurp them?

If you have to wait for them to lose fame XP until they drop into the other fame rank class, then your system is terrible because it'd completely ruin aspirations to be accomplished through labor.

Having global population caps on PvP ranks instead of per faction would be pure folly due to lack of competitors to engage for chances at equivalent game.

In summation, your theory seems poorly fleshed out & short sighted.

But fundamentally, when a player's labor will erode out of their control, they stop caring, because the mechanism makes a mistaken attempt to enslave them through destroying choice to live & play how they want.

So yes, this is why the classic PvP rank system is the perfect solution to creating an cyclical gameplay feature with longevity.

Fame Loss/Gain from all Ranks

Simply repeating that this increases risk & that the classic +/- 1 rank fame range reduces risk is ENTIRELY DELUDED.

When everyone can give you fame & when you lose fame to everyone, awareness of exposure will always be clear.

You can always take the easiest route, avoiding the bumps to enjoy the smooth ride.

When only some can give you fame & you can only lose fame to some, awareness of exposure is more like a black hole.

You can assess your exposure if you do some tests, but you still won't always know if a rock's about to hit.

The ambiguity of risk, the hunt, & off-the-cuff survival/excellence is what made classic PvP ranks anxiety-inducing immersion.

Fundamentally, the statement I made that Neskonlith quoted cannot be debunked.

It's simple truth that completely eradicates any sensibility that +/- 1 rank fame range haters cling to, with the fallacy that fame gain/loss from all ranks is somehow "more risky".

The only fact is that, if PvP ranks go live with any form of decay & fame loss/gain from all ranks, titles will continue to be a unit of time spent PvPing as Dorsan said, instead of an identifier of PvP efficiency.

It can be mundane to see the same points mentioned again & again, but the list of cons to the feature set some propose, it's exhaustingly negative.

Cue player indifference...

Drew69 wrote:

I was gonna stay out of this and let the 3 of you argue your point, but you're failing to do so.  old school fame was the best fame around as far as this game has had, I'm willing to give this new system Rothgar is talking about a try.  If I don't like it I can always leave again; that being said I would like to know if fame is going to be achieveable from every title or 1 title up/down like before?

Point being, we shouldn't make risky maneuvers mistakenly adjusting the PvP rank system when these maneuvers have tens of cons.

What the playerbase has predominantly wanted is simply a return to the classic PvP rank system that is PROVEN to work in energizing PvP, not only by me, but by Dorsan, Dreww, Peak, Kazzo, Vengeance, Beandip, Twelve, Ninka, Mingler, Dawnar & many, MANY more.

There's no reason to risk players leaving or again returning to indifference by making the wrong choice in testing broken concepts.

Hampsters on a wheel won't get off to repair the wheel if it's scheduled to break every day. They'll just stop caring.

On a sad sidenote of digression...

Lol @ Oobo's rage completely void of reason & full of libel.

This middle-aged guy still can't get over adolescent, combative attitudes & their vanity.

Though maybe we all can't at times, I get a strong impression that he really relishes in the shameful immaturity of irrelevant lies.

Lol @ claiming I "got walked on in ANY 1v1" when I regularly killed reds.

Lol @ continuing to claim I "exploited the 50% life loop hole" when anyone who PvPed frequently in tiers I competed in knows that me ever using that tactic was an UTTER & ACTUAL rarity.

Lol @ claiming I "claimed greatness" when I simply only regarded myself as a part of those competent. Competence can come through playing an OP class. It can also come through proper itemizing, situational awareness (choosing the right time to engage), appropriate direct damage focus, & twitch reaction.

Caring about PvP success in a video game doesn't make you great. It can make you competent in the environment. But fundamentally, it's vain & divergent from other more significant priorities.

Those who don't care to minimize losses & maximize gains could very well be competent...if they cared. Fact is, a lot just don't care & they like passing the time doing whatever the heck, irrelevant to quashing some opposition.

[dr4gonUK]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Lol @ Oobo's rage completely void of reason & full of libel.

This middle-aged guy still can't get over adolescent, combative attitudes & their vanity.

Though maybe we all can't at times, I get a strong impression that he really relishes in the shameful immaturity of irrelevant lies.

Lol @ claiming I "got walked on in ANY 1v1" when I regularly killed reds.

Lol @ continuing to claim I "exploited the 50% life loop hole" when anyone who PvPed frequently in tiers I competed in knows that me ever using that tactic was an UTTER & ACTUAL rarity.

Lol @ claiming I "claimed greatness" when I simply only regarded myself as a part of those competent. Competence can come through playing an OP class. It can also come through proper itemizing, situational awareness (choosing the right time to engage), appropriate direct damage focus, & twitch reaction.

Caring about PvP success in a video game doesn't make you great. It can make you competent in the environment. But fundamentally, it's vain & divergent from other more significant priorities.

Those who don't care to minimize losses & maximize gains could very well be competent...if they cared. Fact is, a lot just don't care & they like passing the time doing whatever the heck, irrelevant to quashing some opposition.

Everything oobo said was true. Maybe you should hold back trashing other peoples opinions when you have glass falling all around you everytime you post.

You think spamming the screen with macro text is competent. That says everything about you. Random crusader #5475 who thinks huge walls of text on forums and bible lessons in 1-9 = competence.

Troll more.

[EndevorX]

Tanx@Nagafen wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Lol @ Oobo's rage completely void of reason & full of libel.

This middle-aged guy still can't get over adolescent, combative attitudes & their vanity.

Though maybe we all can't at times, I get a strong impression that he really relishes in the shameful immaturity of irrelevant lies.

Lol @ claiming I "got walked on in ANY 1v1" when I regularly killed reds.

Lol @ continuing to claim I "exploited the 50% life loop hole" when anyone who PvPed frequently in tiers I competed in knows that me ever using that tactic was an UTTER & ACTUAL rarity.

Lol @ claiming I "claimed greatness" when I simply only regarded myself as a part of those competent. Competence can come through playing an OP class. It can also come through proper itemizing, situational awareness (choosing the right time to engage), appropriate direct damage focus, & twitch reaction.

Caring about PvP success in a video game doesn't make you great. It can make you competent in the environment. But fundamentally, it's vain & divergent from other more significant priorities.

Those who don't care to minimize losses & maximize gains could very well be competent...if they cared. Fact is, a lot just don't care & they like passing the time doing whatever the heck, irrelevant to quashing some opposition.

Everything oobo said was true. Maybe you should hold back trashing other peoples opinions when you have glass falling all around you everytime you post.

You think spamming the screen with macro text is competent. That says everything about you. Random crusader #5475 who thinks huge walls of text on forums and bible lessons in 1-9 = competence.

Troll more.

Your oblivious rage is an excellent example of irrationality condensed.

Regional communication was & is to ensure direct damage focus on vital targets.

If you can't accept that & somehow assume peers were unable to use "/ta name" syntax, then feel free to join the herd of oversensitive emos who get their jollies off with lying & defamation.

Grats on letting Oobo troll you into contributing nothing to the thread in the same way he has.

Lol @ me for responding to senseless heckling.

Honestly, what opinions do you think I've trashed?

What I've done is identify obvious holes in myopic suggestion & insinuation.

If you wanna gloat about your inability to converse constructively about pros & cons, your mind is a good place for that.

You think I'm trying to fool you or anyone, but you've already fooled yourself in being a superficial, self righteous hater.

Cause I stated competence was relevant to discussion of the Bible in a chat channel.

And you're trying to rebuke me...for trolling. LOL.

[dr4gonUK]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Lol @ your oblivious rage.

Regional communication was & is to ensure direct damage focus on vital targets.

If you can't accept that & somehow assume peers were unable to use "/ta name" syntax, then feel free to join the herd of oversensitive emos who get their jollies off with lying & defamation.

Grats on letting Oobo troll you into contributing nothing to the thread in the same way he has.

Lol @ me for responding to senseless heckling.

You might be able to fool people who dont know you ingame, but you cant fool me.

[max.power]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Regional communication was & is to ensure direct damage focus on vital targets.

If you haven't changed your "/shout Aim for %t" macro (or some similar text) and not spamming it non-stop, then it's fine and it can really help targeting the "important" targets.

I think people are referring to the times where you definitely used walls of text for that, I've seen the screenshots - although that's some years back and nothing you should be accused of now.

[EndevorX]

Brain@Nagafen wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Regional communication was & is to ensure direct damage focus on vital targets.

If you haven't changed your "/shout Aim for %t" macro (or some similar text) and not spamming it non-stop, then it's fine and it can really help targeting the "important" targets.

I think people are referring to the times where you definitely used walls of text for that, I've seen the screenshots - although that's some years back and nothing you should be accused of now.

It's purely irrelevant altogether.

But even then, the purpose was always the same.

[Oobo]

Seliri the fact i have u butt hurt and ragin ingame and on the forums screaming "omg it wasnt me, omg im great" lol proves my point of how aweful you were and are at pvp... The fact you want crutched fame ingame is another reason..i was in SS the days when it was THE hot spot for pvp and Fame was lost on death and i watched you day in and out make a fool of yourself leeching fights, evacing and bell hugging anytime you MIGHT lose fame, the ONLY time you were ever rolling anyone was when the raids of grey leechers were there to protect you with constant taunt locks, and not to mention how broken resists were at that time from grey targets... YOU ALONE havent accomplished crap till your class was FLUFF BUFFED into its OP state.. NOW you claim pvp talent and greatness...LUL just LUL..... The wall of text you would spam was NOT a assist on target macro it was a spam text designed to block out the other persons screen to keep them from retargetting you and the ONLY rerason you do NOT do it these days is because fame isnt lost anymore, but i bet you mad plat the MIN fame on death goes back into game you will rebound to using it..lol. Also i love how at 1st u claimed to NEVER abuse the 50% loop hole and now your claiming to RARELY do it...HAHA

RAGE MORE FOR ME KID about facts...

PS stop attempting to derail the threads...

100% Risk vs Reward / ingame decay in 2011....go go go lets see REAL PVP TALENT FOR A CHANGE...=)

[yellowbelly08]

The dev posting here has made some valid points, I agree with it all and see his reasoning.

To Rothgar: We do however need some clarification on a number of points:

1.) Will fame gain/loss be acheivable while fighting any rank?

2.) Will the purchase of new pvp be impossible to players on day 1 due to the new faction system? If faction based once a player has the required faction the only obstacle will be their amount of plat to buy all items. So..imo..brand new token system would work better.

3.) Can you confirm thta new open world pvp gear will be SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than new BG gear, and hence not usable in Battlegrounds. This is only way to do things or players will just BG for their gear not pvp.

4.) Any tweak incoming to warfields which atm only promote zerging and lagged aoe fights. The solution imo is remove warfields and include zone controls permanently with associted rewards for winning faction eg reduced broker fees. higher fabled drop rates in instances.

5.) As for BG whats the new requirements for gear ..new or old tokens.?

Thankyou for your time.

Galoro

[Neskonlith]

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Under your system, if you can't overtake someone's rank by gaining more fame XP than they have in their rank, how do you usurp them?

When everyone can give you fame & when you lose fame to everyone, awareness of exposure will always be clear.

SOE is tweaking fame loss mechanisms to ensure players who are interested in gaining and keeping pvp titles must go forth and pvp each day. 

Advancing at the top end can be as simple as "sucking less" than the other players and advancing via fewer fame hits, or perhaps a weekly formal challenge can be introduced - there are plenty of fun ways to grow this aspect of pvp. 

Simple matter is, with the current infinite title system where "everyone can be an Overlord!", titles have no value because anyone and everyone can eventually AOE their way to the top spot.

Hard brackets might have slowed down rate of title inflation, but they also reduced fame loss risk too much.

Consider also: what if hard-brackets removed, but trivial-con titles only rewarded a small amount in comparison to even-con?  A "Champion" trying to farm "nubs" would soon de-rank since the trivial rewards would be too small - just like grey quests offer small rewards.  

No one should ever feel safe and immune in open-world when an enemy player is nearby, regardless of their title. 

[PeaSy1]

yellowbelly08 wrote:

The dev posting here has made some valid points, I agree with it all and see his reasoning.

To Rothgar: We do however need some clarification on a number of points:

1.) Will fame gain/loss be acheivable while fighting any rank?

2.) Will the purchase of new pvp be impossible to players on day 1 due to the new faction system? If faction based once a player has the required faction the only obstacle will be their amount of plat to buy all items. So..imo..brand new token system would work better.

A new currency is needed for how simple and lack of time consuming the token grab is no matter how much u actually participate in pvp and the great thing is the faction system is already in place in the form of status from a pvp kill old tokens useable for new gear? I guess u need to convert it somehow but starting the slate fresh with titles and a new and fair way to acquire pvp gear is a needed situation at this point.

3.) Can you confirm thta new open world pvp gear will be SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than new BG gear, and hence not usable in Battlegrounds. This is only way to do things or players will just BG for their gear not pvp.

4.) Any tweak incoming to warfields which atm only promote zerging and lagged aoe fights. The solution imo is remove warfields and include zone controls permanently with associted rewards for winning faction eg reduced broker fees. higher fabled drop rates in instances.

5.) As for BG whats the new requirements for gear ..new or old tokens.?

Thankyou for your time.

Galoro

[Rothgar]

Each rank is worth a specific amount of fame.  When a player of that rank dies, the fame will be split among everyone on his hate list and everyone in their groups.  So zerging people with large groups will not result in a lot of fame gain because there was very little challenge.

The amount of fame that you are worth is what you will lose when you die, regardless of how you died or how many people killed you.

There are no brackets, you will earn points killing anyone of any rank and will lose points dying to anyone of any rank.  Its very similar to a zero sum system.  If you and a buddy take turns killing each other, the higher rank will lose points to the lower rank until they are of equal rank, at which point it would be a wash and no one would net a gain of points from trading kills.

We are still continuing to tweak with the numbers and will continue to tweak them once this change hits Test Copy and we get some of your active feedback. 

When this new system goes live, all titles will be remove and everyone will be on an even playing field.

I dont have any information about the changes to PvP gear at this time.

[Ssue]

Rothgar wrote:

Each rank is worth a specific amount of fame.  When a player of that rank dies, the fame will be split among everyone on his hate list and everyone in their groups.  So zerging people with large groups will not result in a lot of fame gain because there was very little challenge.

The amount of fame that you are worth is what you will lose when you die, regardless of how you died or how many people killed you.

There are no brackets, you will earn points killing anyone of any rank and will lose points dying to anyone of any rank.  Its very similar to a zero sum system.  If you and a buddy take turns killing each other, the higher rank will lose points to the lower rank until they are of equal rank, at which point it would be a wash and no one would net a gain of points from trading kills.

We are still continuing to tweak with the numbers and will continue to tweak them once this change hits Test Copy and we get some of your active feedback. 

When this new system goes live, all titles will be remove and everyone will be on an even playing field.

I dont have any information about the changes to PvP gear at this time.

Yeah!

[Neskonlith]

Rothgar wrote:

Each rank is worth a specific amount of fame.  When a player of that rank dies, the fame will be split among everyone on his hate list and everyone in their groups.  So zerging people with large groups will not result in a lot of fame gain because there was very little challenge.

The amount of fame that you are worth is what you will lose when you die, regardless of how you died or how many people killed you.

There are no brackets, you will earn points killing anyone of any rank and will lose points dying to anyone of any rank.  Its very similar to a zero sum system.  If you and a buddy take turns killing each other, the higher rank will lose points to the lower rank until they are of equal rank, at which point it would be a wash and no one would net a gain of points from trading kills.

We are still continuing to tweak with the numbers and will continue to tweak them once this change hits Test Copy and we get some of your active feedback. 

When this new system goes live, all titles will be remove and everyone will be on an even playing field.

I dont have any information about the changes to PvP gear at this time.

This sounds fun!

[Oobo]

Rothgar wrote:

Each rank is worth a specific amount of fame.  When a player of that rank dies, the fame will be split among everyone on his hate list and everyone in their groups.  So zerging people with large groups will not result in a lot of fame gain because there was very little challenge.

The amount of fame that you are worth is what you will lose when you die, regardless of how you died or how many people killed you.

There are no brackets, you will earn points killing anyone of any rank and will lose points dying to anyone of any rank.  Its very similar to a zero sum system.  If you and a buddy take turns killing each other, the higher rank will lose points to the lower rank until they are of equal rank, at which point it would be a wash and no one would net a gain of points from trading kills.

We are still continuing to tweak with the numbers and will continue to tweak them once this change hits Test Copy and we get some of your active feedback. 

When this new system goes live, all titles will be remove and everyone will be on an even playing field.

I dont have any information about the changes to PvP gear at this time.

OMG DUDE YOU ROCK...finally TRUE Fame pvp with 100% RvR....now we will see WHO really has the pvp talent..lol

OOOO ONE other thing pls fix it so UNGROUPED Exiles lose fame to other exiles...cause that was abused to high heaven in Haven back when fame was lost on death to fluff kill counts without losing fame..

[Neskonlith]

Oobo@Nagafen wrote:

OOOO ONE other thing pls fix it so UNGROUPED Exiles lose fame to other exiles...cause that was abused to high heaven in Haven back when fame was lost on death to fluff kill counts without losing fame..

Wasn't it adjustments to /recent list being the SOE response to certain players zerging each other into 10K+ kills, which they later bragged about to pretend they were pvp gods due to the kill streaks they manufactured?

[Peak]

Rothgar wrote:

Each rank is worth a specific amount of fame.  When a player of that rank dies, the fame will be split among everyone on his hate list and everyone in their groups.  So zerging people with large groups will not result in a lot of fame gain because there was very little challenge.

If only you could implement something like this with the way PVP gear is earned. Right now, the zerg can all gang up on 6 people, kill them and complete a writ, and be on their way to getting PVP gear. And that has been the main problem with writs all along - they support the zerg.