HOW is Fame Being Reworked?

[Ilovecows]

In the post in the pvp issues thread made by Olihin outlining the changes coming with GU60.  One of the more important thing on there is the reworking of fame.  Whether or not you like fame(and please resist trolling about how fame and titles are meaningless) it would be hard to deny that the fame system does effect pvp and how people pvp.  It would rock if a dev could shed some light on this, so we can make sure that the fame system will be helpful for pvp.

[Rothgar]

We'd really like for people to experience the fame changes on the Test Copy server before jumping to conclusions.  As soon as the GU60 changes go to Test, we will make a posting so that everyone can try it out.

We will try to post more details about the fame system as soon as possible.

[Peak]

I don't think anyone will jump to conclusions, but can you at least give a hint?

Olihin said the changes were already done, so can you at least tell us a little something?

Fame is important to a lot of people, so if some of these changes (even if it's basic explanations) could be communicated to them, it might fuel their desire to return to the game.

Is it close to our old fame system, pre-decay?

[Darkor]

I can understand if you do not want to discuss these changes in this early process but could you please provide the information if the dumb fame decay is going to be removed? Fame decay pretty much killed my interest in pvp.

[max.power]

Peak@Nagafen wrote:

I don't think anyone will jump to conclusions, but can you at least give a hint?

A hint is definately needed. I already see people talking about "The old fame system is coming back!" which might be very wrong.

[Mentle]

Are noob plebian scrub losers like me allowed onto the test server?   Or is it pointless unless I have a level 90 toon ?

[Hilt]

Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:

In the post in the pvp issues thread made by Olihin outlining the changes coming with GU60.  One of the more important thing on there is the reworking of fame.  Whether or not you like fame(and please resist trolling about how fame and titles are meaningless) it would be hard to deny that the fame system does effect pvp and how people pvp.  It would rock if a dev could shed some light on this, so we can make sure that the fame system will be helpful for pvp.

Its hard to say, I know, but fame and titles IS seriously broken. Having a title just means either they were ...

(a) a great player who got burned out and don't log a toon except for once every 6 months and now have a crappy title

(b) a crap player who dry humps tower guard statues in WF's while their group kills players and now have an awesome title.

A title, if it's going to have any significant meaning, should be SOLELY based on a player's KILL RATIO of other PVPers; NOT NPCs and or tower guards. And NOT sponging off group kills.

About all I care about at this point is whether or not PVP will ever directly award a player guild XP towards leveling a guild. Giving the player the option, even it is similar to the AA % bar, to apply PVP XP towards XP / AA / Guild XP would open the stage to a greater variety of player options. That way I could choose to cap at 39 and apply some if not all of my PVP XP towards my guild.

[Oobo]

yes and titles MUST be at RISK 100% of the time... no more of the old way where you just leech off of your title bracket and evac/run from anyone who might take fame...that was never fun and encouraged people to NOT fight... so lets make titles TRUELY mean something and have it 100% risk vs reward.... no more watered down BS..

[threat111]

Peak@Nagafen wrote:

I don't think anyone will jump to conclusions, but can you at least give a hint?

Olihin said the changes were already done, so can you at least tell us a little something?

Fame is important to a lot of people, so if some of these changes (even if it's basic explanations) could be communicated to them, it might fuel their desire to return to the game.

Is it close to our old fame system, pre-decay?

I'd guess its going to be an experiance based system like we talked about a couple beta's ago.  It was the best fix then and would still work great now.

[Drew69]

So I hear ur bringing back the old fame system, confirm/deny? and what took so long to actually figure out that was needed?

[Ecklipse]

Before they bring back the fame system they need to take toughness out, and just make it crit mit. Because apparently they can't create pvp gear that does anything. Rangers triple(or more) auto attacking from 14 - 25k each. Imo, toughness was a dumb idea, it should be only crit mit. I have 45k hp and i can have all my emergancy reactives going with divine guidance and still get oneshot, oh and thats through my deaths save too... because it's triple attacks and junk. BTW I'm Raacs.

[Vaylan77]

Hilt wrote:

Its hard to say, I know, but fame and titles IS seriously broken. Having a title just means either they were ...

(a) a great player who got burned out and don't log a toon except for once every 6 months and now have a crappy title

(b) a crap player who dry humps tower guard statues in WF's while their group kills players and now have an awesome title.

you are talking about the t4 "dreadnaught" that runs away from every fight unless the odds are 3vs1 for him? lolz.yeah fame system is broken. as long as ppl have titles that are known as the greatest cowards on the server the whole system is meaningless. a fame system that does not take into account that- someone runs away from a fight like a crybaby

- evacs from a fight

- starts a fight then breaks combat and runs

- starts a fight, hits some guys then get out of combat and get kill credits while other team members do the work whereas he is ready to run away or evac

- fighting with more people against fewer people

- let his whole team die while he gets away

- going mainly for the newbie chars in fights

- don't log off...is heavily borked and cannot be taken serious. and yes, titles gained this way ARE worthless because they are absolutely no indicator for being a good player. the contrary is true to be honest. the worst players have the highest titles in this game because they don't play and fight anymore but just calculate and run more than fight.

[Ilovecows]

Silbermond@Nagafen wrote:

Hilt wrote:

Its hard to say, I know, but fame and titles IS seriously broken. Having a title just means either they were ...

(a) a great player who got burned out and don't log a toon except for once every 6 months and now have a crappy title

(b) a crap player who dry humps tower guard statues in WF's while their group kills players and now have an awesome title.

you are talking about the t4 "dreadnaught" that runs away from every fight unless the odds are 3vs1 for him? lolz.yeah fame system is broken. as long as ppl have titles that are known as the greatest cowards on the server the whole system is meaningless. a fame system that does not take into account that- someone runs away from a fight like a crybaby

- evacs from a fight

- starts a fight then breaks combat and runs

- starts a fight, hits some guys then get out of combat and get kill credits while other team members do the work whereas he is ready to run away or evac

- fighting with more people against fewer people

- let his whole team die while he gets away

- going mainly for the newbie chars in fights

- don't log off...is heavily borked and cannot be taken serious. and yes, titles gained this way ARE worthless because they are absolutely no indicator for being a good player. the contrary is true to be honest. the worst players have the highest titles in this game because they don't play and fight anymore but just calculate and run more than fight.

First off, I would like to say it is funny how that description completely matches Obrion...  But you forgot to mention that they run from you 1v1 and then call you a runner for running from their group...

Now, on topic, I would like to tell you how they could/will fix each of those issues.

-"Someone runs from a fight like a crybaby."  Put people in combat when they get hit.  Yes, i have heard all of the whole, "a raid will attack you and you will have to die to them."  First off, you probably shouldn't be running into a raid of enemy players all alone.  Second, it is just a death.  It won't kill you(no pun intended)

-"Evacs from a fight." not really any way to stop this other than putting them into combated like stated above, other than removing evac, but i am sure that would make quite a few people displeased. 

-"starts a fight then breaks combat and runs."  Make the fame system so that if you are the one who breaks combat in a fight, then you lose fame.

-"starts a fight, hits some guys then get out of combat and get kill credits while other team members do the work whereas he is ready to run away or evac."  Change writ updates so that you only get updates from kills if you are hated by the player who dies.

-"fighting with more people against fewer people."  The amount of fame is determined by how many people are hated by the player who is killed. So if you are a group of 6, vs a group of 2, each of the 6 gets 1/3rd of a fame hit if they kill the 2 players.

-"let his whole team die while he gets away."  Same as above.  he loses as much fame for running as he would for staying and dying.

-"going mainly for the newbie chars in fights."  There is no way I can see around this.  It will just have to stay as it is, although that is probably the least important problems of all of the ones listed.

-"don't log off."  Fame decay will be both online and offline, so if you stay logged in you will lose just as much fame as you would for logging it.

These are just all of my solutions, and some of the solutions I know are being put into the game.  Any feedback on any of these ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Vaylan77]

Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:

-"Someone runs from a fight like a crybaby."  Put people in combat when they get hit.  Yes, i have heard all of the whole, "a raid will attack you and you will have to die to them."  First off, you probably shouldn't be running into a raid of enemy players all alone.  Second, it is just a death.  It won't kill you(no pun intended)

Really, I am all for this mechanic and have said this a hundred times. Running while everyone beats you like crazy is just wrong. You should get into combat. That's the price you pay for being on a PVP server. This way at least you would be able to initiate fights. Nowadays everyone just watches the other sitting on his flying mount. When you could get others into combat by hitting them (maybe several times before they get into combat) then at least groups would have to fight and not just watch the scenery.

[asaron]

When pvp first started there was a game mechanic called dishonorable kill hitting somone with less than 50% hp would net ya a loss in pvp faction  could that be  adjusted to maybe work for the ganking   or even perhaps the breaking combat and running since  the devs have already hinted at a new faction and token for the new changes

[max.power]

Silbermond@Nagafen wrote:

Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:

-"Someone runs from a fight like a crybaby."  Put people in combat when they get hit.  Yes, i have heard all of the whole, "a raid will attack you and you will have to die to them."  First off, you probably shouldn't be running into a raid of enemy players all alone.  Second, it is just a death.  It won't kill you(no pun intended)

Really, I am all for this mechanic and have said this a hundred times. Running while everyone beats you like crazy is just wrong. You should get into combat. That's the price you pay for being on a PVP server. This way at least you would be able to initiate fights. Nowadays everyone just watches the other sitting on his flying mount. When you could get others into combat by hitting them (maybe several times before they get into combat) then at least groups would have to fight and not just watch the scenery.

Yeah... and you can continue to say this a hundred times again and again but putting someone into combat instantly(!) when they get hit is still the wrong way. If this gets implemented prepare for an empty server, especially now that transfers are open.

(On a side note: When a group can't stop someone from running away then I don't know. Roots? Stuns? Slows? Mezz? Fear? And even if someone gets away because he had some immunity stuff running - so what?! Is it really a big deal that you can't tag anyone for easy kills?)

The only interesting part in your post is the "maybe several times before they get into combat", this would make sense. Maybe any hostile action received should have a (low) chance of putting you into combat or canceling your mount buff but just shooting an arrow from 50+ meters away making the target a sitting duck is not what would help open world PvP.

[Vaylan77]

Brain@Nagafen wrote:

Yeah... and you can continue to say this a hundred times again and again but putting someone into combat instantly(!) when they get hit is still the wrong way. If this gets implemented prepare for an empty server, especially now that transfers are open.

(On a side note: When a group can't stop someone from running away then I don't know. Roots? Stuns? Slows? Mezz? Fear? And even if someone gets away because he had some immunity stuff running - so what?! Is it really a big deal that you can't tag anyone for easy kills?)

The only interesting part in your post is the "maybe several times before they get into combat", this would make sense. Maybe any hostile action received should have a (low) chance of putting you into combat or canceling your mount buff but just shooting an arrow from 50+ meters away making the target a sitting duck is not what would help open world PvP.

You don't get the point. It'S not about "easy kills". It's all about stopping single players from running into 20 others just to make them run like crazy behind them knowing that they cannot kill them anyway and that's basically what happens in WFs. And since you get root immunity and stuff you will end up rooting someone that still runs. And - at least in T4 - you often don't unleash high DPS in 3 seconds to burn someone. While you are then in combat speed he is away with 80+ speed. Try to root that guy now again!

I am talking about fighting. When ppl would know that they can be put into combat more fights between groups would evolve. You would have to fight and not just stand next to each other and wait for the right moment.

And I don't think the server would be empty. The runners may leave but who will miss them anyway? Same thing like now in T4 - once it gets a little tougher again and Qs have more ppl all the leecher freeps just stay out of the WF - who misses those guys? I don't.There are die hard PVPers that would stay and I rather fight them everyday then seeing the very same guys running a marathon in Antonica the whole day.

[Ilovecows]

Brain@Nagafen wrote:

Silbermond@Nagafen wrote:

Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:

-"Someone runs from a fight like a crybaby."  Put people in combat when they get hit.  Yes, i have heard all of the whole, "a raid will attack you and you will have to die to them."  First off, you probably shouldn't be running into a raid of enemy players all alone.  Second, it is just a death.  It won't kill you(no pun intended)

Really, I am all for this mechanic and have said this a hundred times. Running while everyone beats you like crazy is just wrong. You should get into combat. That's the price you pay for being on a PVP server. This way at least you would be able to initiate fights. Nowadays everyone just watches the other sitting on his flying mount. When you could get others into combat by hitting them (maybe several times before they get into combat) then at least groups would have to fight and not just watch the scenery.

Yeah... and you can continue to say this a hundred times again and again but putting someone into combat instantly(!) when they get hit is still the wrong way. If this gets implemented prepare for an empty server, especially now that transfers are open.

(On a side note: When a group can't stop someone from running away then I don't know. Roots? Stuns? Slows? Mezz? Fear? And even if someone gets away because he had some immunity stuff running - so what?! Is it really a big deal that you can't tag anyone for easy kills?)

The only interesting part in your post is the "maybe several times before they get into combat", this would make sense. Maybe any hostile action received should have a (low) chance of putting you into combat or canceling your mount buff but just shooting an arrow from 50+ meters away making the target a sitting duck is not what would help open world PvP.

Putting people in combat when they get hit will not make everyone leave.  If you are afraid of being attacked by a group as a solo player and dying, then you should roll in a group and not go solo.  What happens now is soloes with good gear go looking around for noobs with no gear and kill them while they are questing for "free" updates.  This change would not do much other than,

*Encourage people to group instead of playing solo

*Keep people from hunting noobs in quest gear who run from any real fight

*Cause the people who run from every fight to leave the server(I don't know about anyone else, but they wouldn't be missed by me)

People run too much in this game.  They run from every fight, every oportunity they can.  They just hop on their flying mount and run away.

If you are one of those people who expect pvp in this game to be where you can run from any real fight and only attack new players and poorly geared players, in other words, pvping without risk vs reward, as i have heard tons of people saying it should be, you either need to suck it up, or leave the game.  PvP should be risk vs. reward.  it always has been.