Tunarian Bard?

Ghreydius · 11-13-2010, 05:26 AM

Hey Troubadors. Anyone know if the +healing bonuses you get from worshiping Tunare affect our health regeneration songs?

Artalis the Elder · 11-15-2010, 05:59 PM

No they do not.

In-Combat Health Regeneration is not a heal.

Ghreydius · 11-16-2010, 08:03 AM

So if the developers are only going to provide a single diety for pretty much all scouts... why even bother giving us the choice? Just assign the god at creation. Is there a single other diety whose miracles and blessing would play in any regard into the role of a troubador?

Wood elves are all about songs and dance and nature yet they are being forced to worship a halfling... *sigh*

Artalis the Elder · 11-18-2010, 08:59 PM

Nobody's forcing you to do anything. My troub follow's Sol Ro as do many serious raiding bards. My dirge was Quellious for a good long time, Marr now, not that I play her much.

Ghreydius · 11-18-2010, 11:02 PM

That's interesting. Why Solusek Ro? All I am really seeing are a lot of fire based damage spell buffs. As I understood our DDs are all mind based. Or is that choice just for the pet and some reactive effects? What is the 'serious raiding' benefit?

As for the Quellious and Marr choice, those were purely roleplay I take it?

Ragnaphore · 11-19-2010, 07:48 AM

Ghreydius wrote:

That's interesting. Why Solusek Ro? All I am really seeing are a lot of fire based damage spell buffs. As I understood our DDs are all mind based. Or is that choice just for the pet and some reactive effects? What is the 'serious raiding' benefit?

R.O. + Incinerate = big V.C.

Ghreydius · 11-19-2010, 10:01 PM

Sorry new... R.O. V.C. ?

Ghreydius · 11-21-2010, 02:27 PM

Is this game really this dead or are their truly only around 5 complete die hards playing the Troubadour class?

Autheas · 11-21-2010, 02:28 PM

R.O. == Rythmic Oveture

V.C. == Victorious Concerto

They are the SF Bard tree endline ability.

R.O. will record your damage for 10 Seconds

V.C. will then give a portion of your damage that you did during the R.O. as a proc to each member in your group on each attack they do for 10 seconds.

Thus Incinerate during the R.O. portion == very BIG V.C. (even more so if you time R.O. to happen during a timewarp....)

Autheas · 11-21-2010, 02:30 PM

Ghreydius wrote:

Is this game really this dead or are their truly only around 5 complete die hards playing the Troubadour class?

Possibly only less than 10 of us that think of our troubs as our mains and raid....

Troub for LIFE

(*ok now where is that betray to dirge button at*)

Ghreydius · 11-22-2010, 12:12 AM

Wow, that's too bad. Perhaps the developers should be visiting this class to figure out why that is. Or we could toss out some suggestions as people that love the class.

Artalis the Elder · 11-22-2010, 08:14 PM

Perhaps they should, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I talked to Xelgad at fanfaire and he's a nice guy, but his attention seems pulled in a thousand directions at once.

He says he likes his bards, but I'm not sure he plays his troub seriously.

I really love my troub, but it sure would be nice if some of the broken aspects of the class were reviewed and fixed.

Dreadpatch · 11-22-2010, 08:49 PM

I know I'll probably get flamed, but I play a troub pretty seriously. I switch on and off with my coercer, both 90, both 250 aa, and both wearing raid gear. My troub was just converted to my main from coercer. I find the class to be fun and challenging. I like the fact 50 million people don't play them. I find if played well the dps is in line for the amount of buffs the troub brings to the table. The only thing I would ask for is just one moderate damage blue aoe and I would be really happy with the class. I honestly don't think there is anything majorly wrong with the class. Yes I use incinerate with my RO/VC, it's not an option lol.

Ghreydius · 11-22-2010, 08:56 PM

It is interesting, and perhaps a tad sad, that a very similar conversation is going on right now over on the Illusionists forum. I left WoW because they had managed to dumb down the game so badly that its focus demographic can only be 3rd graders and below. By the time I left I was seriously looking for the quarter slot on my PC as the experience had degraded to nothing more than a DPS spamfest with tanks so overpowered they would pull half an instance before telling their team to 'burn it down'.

That was when I remembered EQ1 and the serious thought that had to go into every pull. CC was pretty much mandatory and teamwork a must. As I reach the halfway mark now in my EQ2 leveling I must admit I am really finding myself disappointed at the extremely similar WoWish playstyle here. Now before anyone comes in with the 'well everything changes when you hit 90' argument I must remind players everywhere that a game that is only good at the very end, is a bad game.

There are countless MMOs on the market and more releasing every week. They don't all need to be World of Playschool. Developers need to realize that the market is so saturated now that it is time to start exploring more niche titles. There is a reason Ultima Online with its 15 year old look is still very popular and running while numerous Warcraft clones have launched... and died. Everquest held the crown as the reigning hardcore PvE title and what it should have done was stick with what it did well.

Now I realize that this thread is buried on some never used class forum and the chance that it will ever find the eyes of the developers is miniscule. However, it was important to me to voice that there are players out there that miss 'the old you' and have just as much expendable income, if not more, than the spotlight swarm of afterschool forum kiddies.

Artalis the Elder · 12-22-2010, 10:14 PM

I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing.

We live in society of instant gratification and the time sinks of the old games just aren't going to generate the same subscription numbers as the gimme-gimme of the wow-clones.

Problem is, people are dumb. They think they want their epic weapon and uber-armor of uberness as soon as they log in and they are willing to spend RL cash to have it (see plat farmers and Station Cash) and then they wonder why they don't have that amazing feeling of exhultation when they get these things.

They are watering down their own play experience and then whining about it, leaving the devs blinking in their wake.

"But we gave them what they wanted"

But what they wanted is not what the game NEEDED.

Very few people get it.

I'm really hoping that Curt Schilling's 38 Studios Copernicus turns out to be our 3rd gen MMO Messiah, but I'm probably getting my hopes too high.

/salute

Shygar · 02-25-2011, 01:52 PM

there are more than a few, but we just keep quiet and sit back and keel chit

So, now that DOV has released

RO-VC sucks, even with incinerate and I was at 191 crit chance dong it, talk bout NERF

Prestissimo · 02-27-2011, 06:15 AM

With everything scaling as high as it does, it was only a matter of time before something "fixed" became moot. If they insist on scaling the output of characters in this game by tripple digit %s each expansion, they're going to have to make everything a scaling %. Fixed values only work so long as they get scaled by the same stats/bonuses that is scaling what is being made the #1 priority (dps).

Until everything in the game scales at the same rate that dps is scaling at, everything other than damage in EQ2 will become completely optional once you can satisfy the condition of "make teh mob deadar fastah than it can deadz you!!".

This concept of "'moar dps!1' is 'moar bettah'" and "even moar 'moar dps!1' is even moar 'moar bettah'" that arealik started (and unfortunately that the current devs are forcing into the game by any means possible at greater rates each year) is where 90% of all the problems in EQ2 balance spawns from. The remaining 10% is because of bad, horrible, or beyond horrible choices made by the SOE crew (be it devs or management or both) in their never ending effort to become WoW2 by becoming a bug ridden, less functional, less desireable, less player friendly, less able to be played, less able to be enjoyed, and more demanding of a client program version of a ripped off wow. It really didn't help that the same developer that was responsible for putting the game into the era of "moar dps!1" played more wow than he did eq2, and was determined to turn eq2 into wow.

Since everything the troub provides is static bonuses that do not scale and have not scaled in over the several years I've played one, and since the troubs are still using the same un-updated numbers from past years that deperately need to be updated 3 stat system revamps ago, and since the game is now tailoring towards stats that the troubs do NOT buff, is it any shock to anyone at all that the severe state of neglect the troubs are in is causing them to be horribly under powered and rendered largely not worth the place in the raid?

Without RO/VC, the only thing troubs really bring to the raid anymore is procing arcane/elemental cures. They bring to the group 10% increased spell damage from their mythical buff, increased recovery speed from SF aas on allegro, reduced power cost and increased range on allegro (from SF aas), Jcap's crit bonus (which is a red adorn and is largely a minor bonus now), the last few %s of reuse speed that people can physically use and can actually benefit from, increased ticks from UT, and increased DoT tick speed/buff duration from harmonization. Everything else a troub brings can be easily replaced by a class that performs higher than the troub because they weren't AS neglected.

If Xelgad really plays bards (plural meaning including a troubador, meaning the other bard besides a dirge) and if he doesn't see how big of a problem there is with the troub, then I'm seriously ashamed that he's the class balance developer for EQ2.

If this post hurts someone's feelings, then I would strongly advise that they prove that it is not true. The day that happens is the day I will stop saying it.

Jeepned2 · 03-01-2011, 09:28 PM

Elusion@Nektulos wrote:

I know I'll probably get flamed, but I play a troub pretty seriously. I switch on and off with my coercer, both 90, both 250 aa, and both wearing raid gear. My troub was just converted to my main from coercer. I find the class to be fun and challenging. I like the fact 50 million people don't play them. I find if played well the dps is in line for the amount of buffs the troub brings to the table. The only thing I would ask for is just one moderate damage blue aoe and I would be really happy with the class. I honestly don't think there is anything majorly wrong with the class. Yes I use incinerate with my RO/VC, it's not an option lol.

Ok..just retired my Coercer for the second and final time. My troub is really the only choice I have for a main now. So how bad is it trying to solo in the new expansion. For the first time ever I have decided not to get the expansion. I dropped out of my raiding guild when I decided to retire my Coercer. I'm still waiting to hear if the expansion is worth it or just wait for the next one.

No hurry to get back into raiding. After raiding 6 years on EQ and 6 years on EQ2, the break is kind of nice.

11-15-2010, 05:59 PM	#2
Artalis the Elder Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	No they do not. In-Combat Health Regeneration is not a heal. __________________

11-18-2010, 08:59 PM	#4
Artalis the Elder Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	Nobody's forcing you to do anything. My troub follow's Sol Ro as do many serious raiding bards. My dirge was Quellious for a good long time, Marr now, not that I play her much. __________________

11-19-2010, 07:48 AM	#6
Ragnaphore Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 715	Ghreydius wrote: That's interesting. Why Solusek Ro? All I am really seeing are a lot of fire based damage spell buffs. As I understood our DDs are all mind based. Or is that choice just for the pet and some reactive effects? What is the 'serious raiding' benefit? R.O. + Incinerate = big V.C.

11-21-2010, 02:30 PM	#10
Autheas Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 16	Ghreydius wrote: Is this game really this dead or are their truly only around 5 complete die hards playing the Troubadour class? Possibly only less than 10 of us that think of our troubs as our mains and raid.... Troub for LIFE (ok now where is that betray to dirge button at)

11-22-2010, 08:14 PM	#12
Artalis the Elder Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	Perhaps they should, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I talked to Xelgad at fanfaire and he's a nice guy, but his attention seems pulled in a thousand directions at once. He says he likes his bards, but I'm not sure he plays his troub seriously. I really love my troub, but it sure would be nice if some of the broken aspects of the class were reviewed and fixed. __________________

11-13-2010, 05:26 AM	#1
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	Hey Troubadors. Anyone know if the +healing bonuses you get from worshiping Tunare affect our health regeneration songs?

11-16-2010, 08:03 AM	#3
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	So if the developers are only going to provide a single diety for pretty much all scouts... why even bother giving us the choice? Just assign the god at creation. Is there a single other diety whose miracles and blessing would play in any regard into the role of a troubador? Wood elves are all about songs and dance and nature yet they are being forced to worship a halfling... sigh

11-18-2010, 11:02 PM	#5
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	That's interesting. Why Solusek Ro? All I am really seeing are a lot of fire based damage spell buffs. As I understood our DDs are all mind based. Or is that choice just for the pet and some reactive effects? What is the 'serious raiding' benefit? As for the Quellious and Marr choice, those were purely roleplay I take it?

11-19-2010, 10:01 PM	#7
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	Sorry new... R.O. V.C. ?

11-21-2010, 02:27 PM	#8
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	Is this game really this dead or are their truly only around 5 complete die hards playing the Troubadour class?

11-21-2010, 02:28 PM	#9
Autheas Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 16	R.O. == Rythmic Oveture V.C. == Victorious Concerto They are the SF Bard tree endline ability. R.O. will record your damage for 10 Seconds V.C. will then give a portion of your damage that you did during the R.O. as a proc to each member in your group on each attack they do for 10 seconds. Thus Incinerate during the R.O. portion == very BIG V.C. (even more so if you time R.O. to happen during a timewarp....)

11-22-2010, 12:12 AM	#11
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	Wow, that's too bad. Perhaps the developers should be visiting this class to figure out why that is. Or we could toss out some suggestions as people that love the class.

11-22-2010, 08:49 PM	#13
Dreadpatch Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 575	I know I'll probably get flamed, but I play a troub pretty seriously. I switch on and off with my coercer, both 90, both 250 aa, and both wearing raid gear. My troub was just converted to my main from coercer. I find the class to be fun and challenging. I like the fact 50 million people don't play them. I find if played well the dps is in line for the amount of buffs the troub brings to the table. The only thing I would ask for is just one moderate damage blue aoe and I would be really happy with the class. I honestly don't think there is anything majorly wrong with the class. Yes I use incinerate with my RO/VC, it's not an option lol. __________________ Elusion 90 Coercer 250 AA Alendril 90 Troubador 250 AA Ribatio 90 Mystic 242 AA Dreadpatch 90 Swashbuckler 171 AA Delanar 70 Guardian Blackghost 39 (BG) Assassin

11-22-2010, 08:56 PM	#14
Ghreydius Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11	It is interesting, and perhaps a tad sad, that a very similar conversation is going on right now over on the Illusionists forum. I left WoW because they had managed to dumb down the game so badly that its focus demographic can only be 3rd graders and below. By the time I left I was seriously looking for the quarter slot on my PC as the experience had degraded to nothing more than a DPS spamfest with tanks so overpowered they would pull half an instance before telling their team to 'burn it down'. That was when I remembered EQ1 and the serious thought that had to go into every pull. CC was pretty much mandatory and teamwork a must. As I reach the halfway mark now in my EQ2 leveling I must admit I am really finding myself disappointed at the extremely similar WoWish playstyle here. Now before anyone comes in with the 'well everything changes when you hit 90' argument I must remind players everywhere that a game that is only good at the very end, is a bad game. There are countless MMOs on the market and more releasing every week. They don't all need to be World of Playschool. Developers need to realize that the market is so saturated now that it is time to start exploring more niche titles. There is a reason Ultima Online with its 15 year old look is still very popular and running while numerous Warcraft clones have launched... and died. Everquest held the crown as the reigning hardcore PvE title and what it should have done was stick with what it did well. Now I realize that this thread is buried on some never used class forum and the chance that it will ever find the eyes of the developers is miniscule. However, it was important to me to voice that there are players out there that miss 'the old you' and have just as much expendable income, if not more, than the spotlight swarm of afterschool forum kiddies.

12-22-2010, 10:14 PM	#15
Artalis the Elder Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing. We live in society of instant gratification and the time sinks of the old games just aren't going to generate the same subscription numbers as the gimme-gimme of the wow-clones. Problem is, people are dumb. They think they want their epic weapon and uber-armor of uberness as soon as they log in and they are willing to spend RL cash to have it (see plat farmers and Station Cash) and then they wonder why they don't have that amazing feeling of exhultation when they get these things. They are watering down their own play experience and then whining about it, leaving the devs blinking in their wake. "But we gave them what they wanted" But what they wanted is not what the game NEEDED. Very few people get it. I'm really hoping that Curt Schilling's 38 Studios Copernicus turns out to be our 3rd gen MMO Messiah, but I'm probably getting my hopes too high. /salute __________________

02-25-2011, 01:52 PM	#16
Shygar Server: The Bazaar Guild: Darknessfalls Rank: Commanding Officer Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 41	there are more than a few, but we just keep quiet and sit back and keel chit So, now that DOV has released RO-VC sucks, even with incinerate and I was at 191 crit chance dong it, talk bout NERF

02-27-2011, 06:15 AM	#17
Prestissimo Server: Butcherblock Guild: The Evolution Rank: Noobsauce Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 664	With everything scaling as high as it does, it was only a matter of time before something "fixed" became moot. If they insist on scaling the output of characters in this game by tripple digit %s each expansion, they're going to have to make everything a scaling %. Fixed values only work so long as they get scaled by the same stats/bonuses that is scaling what is being made the #1 priority (dps). Until everything in the game scales at the same rate that dps is scaling at, everything other than damage in EQ2 will become completely optional once you can satisfy the condition of "make teh mob deadar fastah than it can deadz you!!". This concept of "'moar dps!1' is 'moar bettah'" and "even moar 'moar dps!1' is even moar 'moar bettah'" that arealik started (and unfortunately that the current devs are forcing into the game by any means possible at greater rates each year) is where 90% of all the problems in EQ2 balance spawns from. The remaining 10% is because of bad, horrible, or beyond horrible choices made by the SOE crew (be it devs or management or both) in their never ending effort to become WoW2 by becoming a bug ridden, less functional, less desireable, less player friendly, less able to be played, less able to be enjoyed, and more demanding of a client program version of a ripped off wow. It really didn't help that the same developer that was responsible for putting the game into the era of "moar dps!1" played more wow than he did eq2, and was determined to turn eq2 into wow. Since everything the troub provides is static bonuses that do not scale and have not scaled in over the several years I've played one, and since the troubs are still using the same un-updated numbers from past years that deperately need to be updated 3 stat system revamps ago, and since the game is now tailoring towards stats that the troubs do NOT buff, is it any shock to anyone at all that the severe state of neglect the troubs are in is causing them to be horribly under powered and rendered largely not worth the place in the raid? Without RO/VC, the only thing troubs really bring to the raid anymore is procing arcane/elemental cures. They bring to the group 10% increased spell damage from their mythical buff, increased recovery speed from SF aas on allegro, reduced power cost and increased range on allegro (from SF aas), Jcap's crit bonus (which is a red adorn and is largely a minor bonus now), the last few %s of reuse speed that people can physically use and can actually benefit from, increased ticks from UT, and increased DoT tick speed/buff duration from harmonization. Everything else a troub brings can be easily replaced by a class that performs higher than the troub because they weren't AS neglected. If Xelgad really plays bards (plural meaning including a troubador, meaning the other bard besides a dirge) and if he doesn't see how big of a problem there is with the troub, then I'm seriously ashamed that he's the class balance developer for EQ2. If this post hurts someone's feelings, then I would strongly advise that they prove that it is not true. The day that happens is the day I will stop saying it.

03-01-2011, 09:28 PM	#18
Jeepned2 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 595	Elusion@Nektulos wrote: I know I'll probably get flamed, but I play a troub pretty seriously. I switch on and off with my coercer, both 90, both 250 aa, and both wearing raid gear. My troub was just converted to my main from coercer. I find the class to be fun and challenging. I like the fact 50 million people don't play them. I find if played well the dps is in line for the amount of buffs the troub brings to the table. The only thing I would ask for is just one moderate damage blue aoe and I would be really happy with the class. I honestly don't think there is anything majorly wrong with the class. Yes I use incinerate with my RO/VC, it's not an option lol. Ok..just retired my Coercer for the second and final time. My troub is really the only choice I have for a main now. So how bad is it trying to solo in the new expansion. For the first time ever I have decided not to get the expansion. I dropped out of my raiding guild when I decided to retire my Coercer. I'm still waiting to hear if the expansion is worth it or just wait for the next one. No hurry to get back into raiding. After raiding 6 years on EQ and 6 years on EQ2, the break is kind of nice.