Pristine bonus changes coming - Page 3

Whilhelmina · 02-16-2011, 03:23 PM

I agree with you Kaisha, and I'll add what I already said: if you don't craft for pristine, you won't put items on the broker. Yeah, I know, most have no use, but I already had troubles finding handcrafted stuff and spells on the broker for NoTD in middle tiers and I fear that now there'll be nothing at all on the broker.

Kulzor · 02-16-2011, 04:58 PM

Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:

I agree with you Kaisha, and I'll add what I already said: if you don't craft for pristine, you won't put items on the broker. Yeah, I know, most have no use, but I already had troubles finding handcrafted stuff and spells on the broker for NoTD in middle tiers and I fear that now there'll be nothing at all on the broker.

I've got every crafting class and skill max'd in the game. I never found any items selling that were made from blowing through new recipes. Those that DO sell are the hand-targeted recipes for certain types of food, arrows, and gear. Most crafters selling them don't make one (from the pristine bonus), they pump them out en-masse specifically to put on the broker.

While the pristine xp bonus is great at lower levels, it's not as impressive at high levels. The change to writs ought to blow away the pristine bonus at those high levels. It also gives even more reason to do the crafting quest chains that have been added - whereas pre-Velious it's been more beneficial to skip them and just do pristine's.

We *do* lose the wonderful bonus from doing each TS Instance the first time - on the other hand, doing Ship Out! should give a significant boost to xp just due to the quests.

People are somehow missing the wonderful side-effects to doing writ-leveling. Mass quantities of status, continual gain of coin, and tokens. In some respects it'll be a guild buff because more guild status will be earned overall.

The only real downside (without a trade-off bonus elsewhere) I'm seeing will be bonus xp weekends. If those percentages aren't significantly bumped up, then they won't be worth much.

Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people.

Overall, a welcome change.

Edit: And a reminder that now there'll actually be a reason (decent xp) to do other crafting quests, since the rewards for most aren't very worthwhile.

Atropos · 02-16-2011, 05:10 PM

Kulzor@Befallen wrote:

Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people.

Hey, after an all-pristine leveling session you get to sell bags full of useless crap to a vendor to make room for the next leveling session. Boy, I'll miss that.

/sarcasm off

Jrral · 02-16-2011, 05:57 PM

Kulzor@Befallen wrote:

Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people.

Agreed. For myself, I don't care whether I'm doing first-time combines or writs to level. What I care about is basically the number of combines I need to do to level. Doing 30 first-time combines or doing 5 writs requiring 6 combines each, it's still 30 combines worth of work. If those 5 writs gain me as much of a level as those 30 first-time combines, then for me it makes no difference.

KerowynnKaotic · 02-16-2011, 06:29 PM

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Kulzor@Befallen wrote:
Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people.
Agreed. For myself, I don't care whether I'm doing first-time combines or writs to level. What I care about is basically the number of combines I need to do to level. Doing 30 first-time combines or doing 5 writs requiring 6 combines each, it's still 30 combines worth of work. If those 5 writs gain me as much of a level as those 30 first-time combines, then for me it makes no difference.

It's only the exact same 30 combines if you suceed. And, even so it's still not really the same % of exp.

But, seriously based on your example of your needs of as long as it's the same 30 combines .. you've never had an off day?! I find that hard to believe. Even with my Main with every little crafting toy there currently is in game I can have bad combines and have even failed a Rush writ or 2.

Sure, sometimes that's 'cause I was involved with a chat or 2 so maybe my attention wasn't 100% on the clock but still it happens even without the added distraction from chat/rl/whatever. Sometimes the reacts are just not in your favor, sometimes you're lagging more than your lag meter says you are. Whatever ..

Things happen in the course of that writ that will affect your outcome. And, if it does then it takes just that many more combines to finish that writ. Which sets you back from where you would have had it been your straight Pristine Bonus + Quest Reward.

I just find it strange that a lot more of Crafters don't see this as a problem. I'm pretty comfortable in saying if SOE took away Group Kill bonus, the Adventurers would be up in arms about losing a vital part of their EXP. Sure, Adventurers get the same EXP regardless of Class but even so the Class dictates the type of mob that they can handle solo/duo/etc. But, Crafters Craft! We should get our Exp from Crafting! Quests & Writs are supposed to be extra and something for variety, not our main focus. We're supposed to be Crafting for the Players! Not Crafting for NPCs!

I'd be all for bumping up Exp in Writs for those Classes without as many recipes in their books. I'd even be for upping those Classes Pristine bonus a little to compensate as well. But, I'm not for something that penalizes an entire structure for the supposeable benefit of a few.

Though, personally, I would prefer an actual fix for the problem and not just another band-aid after another band-aid. But, adding in new recipes and making sure the recipes can create usable(sellable) items for all requires way more time/energy than SOE is willing to schedule in for a system that just isn't as important to their overall goal of the game.

Whilhelmina · 02-16-2011, 06:40 PM

Well, hubby just levelled armorer from 1 to 90, then Provi from 1 to 90 and is currently carpenter 49 (on the same toon) and he sold all handcrafted items for those 3 classes so far on the broker. It went slowly away but it WAS sold in the end.

Enox · 02-16-2011, 08:02 PM

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

Kulzor@Befallen wrote:
Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people.
Agreed. For myself, I don't care whether I'm doing first-time combines or writs to level. What I care about is basically the number of combines I need to do to level. Doing 30 first-time combines or doing 5 writs requiring 6 combines each, it's still 30 combines worth of work. If those 5 writs gain me as much of a level as those 30 first-time combines, then for me it makes no difference.

This is the problem. Look at the math in Whilhelmina's post. It was far worse in her first post on the beta forums before writ xp was boosted again. In the current system it took her 82 combines to level. In the new system it took 114 combines. No one seems to be able to explain to me how this is better. Doing 32 extra combines for the same amount of xp is not an improvement.

Filly67 · 02-16-2011, 08:18 PM

Yes, I will miss the bonuses but I think this is a fair change. I have four 90 tradeskillers but I am really noticing how unbalanced the bonuses are as I am currently leveling a woodworker and a jeweler at the same time. It seems only fair to level the playing field.

Domino, before I started playing this game you were the one Dev that my husband constantly raved about and in the last year I can see why. Your attention to us tradeskillers is greatly appreciated. I can't wait to see the changes that have been added for us in DoV. Thanks for all that you do.

Jeepned2 · 02-16-2011, 09:09 PM

DominoDev wrote:

Basically, this is what we expect it to feel like:
if you formerly had very few pristine bonuses, and just crafted the same items over and over, leveling up will feel pretty much the same as ever.
if you formerly had a lot of pristine bonuses, and crafted one of everything in your new books, leveling up will feel slower after this change. This is me! Not worried though. will simply stop crafting since I hate the writs and quests. oh well.
if you run through crafting quests and/or do crafting writs, the speed should feel comparable to how a scholar class would have leveled up with a ton of pristine bonuses prior to this change. So, should feel like about the same leveling speed for scholars, and will probably feel a bit faster for classes with few recipes. The quests and writs are a massive bore fest for those of us who just want to level up our crafting and get it over with. WOOHOO, I get to make 200 of the same item to get 2% exp!!! No wonder that people who violate the EULA are normally crafters with thier crafter mods and bots.
there is no longer any need to make one of every item in your recipe books just to turn around and sell them to a vendor, which should be nice.
there is no longer any reason to hold off on making your exciting new items until a level cap raise to "save up" pristine bonuses - if you have a recipe and want to make it, do it!
Overall, nobody should be leveling up slower, and low-recipe classes will find it now feels faster, since they will now be on an even footing with the scholar classes. Nobody should be leveling up slower?.. Tell that to the Scholars.

Guess I'm confused. This massive new script requirement was for fixing what? One group gets to level faster because that have a bunch more recipes then someone else? You are kidding me right? at level 10 you could do four quick pristine crafts and ding. Now you're telling me I'll have to do what eight? ten? per level? Ok I realize that I'm not one of the rabid crafting fans. Whats mindless boring repetition for me is theraputic for others. But I just don't see the reason for using all that computing time to fix something that wasn't really broken. Seems like they could have used the computing time to fix all the things that are screwed up in the new expansion.

Jrral · 02-17-2011, 03:14 PM

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

It's only the exact same 30 combines if you suceed. And, even so it's still not really the same % of exp.
But, seriously based on your example of your needs of as long as it's the same 30 combines .. you've never had an off day?! I find that hard to believe. Even with my Main with every little crafting toy there currently is in game I can have bad combines and have even failed a Rush writ or 2.

Well, if the same number of combines isn't giving me the same %XP, then I'm not getting the same portion of a level out of that same number of combines, right? Now, I do have a certain tolerance. Right now it generally doesn't take me long to run combines, nor writs for that matter. And yes, I have bad days, but it's been a long while since even the worst day resulted in my failing a rush-order writ. And I don't think I've ever failed a rush order past about the 30s, past that point I'm getting enough oomph from my reaction arts to deal with even repeated failures to counter without losing pristine. I just make it a point to keep my attention on the combine and do chat in between combines (or better yet, in between writs).

There's also the flip side: vitality. Right now doing first-time combines burns vitality fairly quickly. Writs burn it far less rapidly because the quest XP from the writ doesn't use up vitality. At low levels vitality's rarely a problem, it takes so relatively few combines per level in the first few tiers that I can go through an entire tier and still have vitality left. But once I get into the upper tiers I can run out of vitality in 2-3 levels, and that slows down my leveling dramatically whether I continue to craft without vitality or wait for my vitality to regenerate. Leveling by writs should increase that to 4-5 levels before I run out of vitality, which'll be good in my book.

FrostDragon · 02-17-2011, 06:17 PM

Well given Crafting is an ADDICTION, I am sure most of us have some of the uber easy lvling classes and the epic slow. Skilling on writs is fine with me. I beef is with the selection of items for the writs. As tailor I hated them because all the names were almost the same. Found myself making the wrong uber long named item and until 60s the timer is not on your side given tradeskill gear unless you have a racial bonus plus the rest

Therendil · 02-18-2011, 12:20 AM

I have not had any problems finishing writs on time since TSO. Put 5 AA into Swift Creations and you have a constant 10% Progress bonus. All my characters do that now. They all also have whatever tinkered tools they can use. At level 33 that means two tools and a +3% success chance. Throw in one tradeskill pick from the first AA page and you should be good.

I am also convinced that missed reaction events hurt more than people think. If I miss a big one, I will go the rest of that combine and maybe the next one working against what feels like a penalty. Conversely, if I haven't mised one in a while, I seem to breeze along. This is separate from the 'drift' in the RNG that makes success easier and harder over the course of a session.

That said, my weakest crafters (the ones in their 30 with no special gear) routinely finish rush orders with 1:30-2:00 to spare. The 90s routinely finish with 3:30 or more. My Halfling Provisioner even finished one rush order with more than 4:00 to spare and he doesn't have any Far Seas gear.

I don't chat while burning writs. There's a flow to doing it that really can't be interrupted. I'll chat between rush orders, but once I push the button to start, that's it.

Jrral is dead on about vitality. Burning writs gets you more levels on the same Vitality than doing pristines.

-= Therendil =-

Seiffil · 02-18-2011, 01:13 AM

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

I just find it strange that a lot more of Crafters don't see this as a problem. I'm pretty comfortable in saying if SOE took away Group Kill bonus, the Adventurers would be up in arms about losing a vital part of their EXP. Sure, Adventurers get the same EXP regardless of Class but even so the Class dictates the type of mob that they can handle solo/duo/etc. But, Crafters Craft! We should get our Exp from Crafting! Quests & Writs are supposed to be extra and something for variety, not our main focus. We're supposed to be Crafting for the Players! Not Crafting for NPCs!
I'd be all for bumping up Exp in Writs for those Classes without as many recipes in their books. I'd even be for upping those Classes Pristine bonus a little to compensate as well. But, I'm not for something that penalizes an entire structure for the supposeable benefit of a few.
Though, personally, I would prefer an actual fix for the problem and not just another band-aid after another band-aid. But, adding in new recipes and making sure the recipes can create usable(sellable) items for all requires way more time/energy than SOE is willing to schedule in for a system that just isn't as important to their overall goal of the game.

I don't see it as a problem because as far as I'm concerned it isn't. There was a significant disparity in how long it took me to level up my non scholar crafters vs scholars. You even say we're supposed to craft for players, not for npcs, I hope you realize that with the pristine crafting bonus, most people are crafting for the vendor. I'm not going to bother wasting broker space or time trying to sell the journeyman spells/CAs I make generally.

You mention you'd prefer an actual fix to the problem, we have an actual fix. They removed one bonus, and increased the amount of experience from writs. That people seem to ignore the pristine combine bonus significantly favored scholars over other tradeskill classes is mindboggling to me.

Adding new recipes that just serve as filler to give some tradeskills more items to get pristine bonuses with is an even bigger bandaid. Just changing the pristine bonus award amount may have been an option, but honestly it just seems like avoiding the issue of why do we even get the pristine bonus in the first place. I remember crafting at release with all of the annoying sub combines. I remember crafting the crude or shaped item because I failed to keep the durability high enough. When they changed crafting so that the only item you could make was the pristine version, they really did remove any practical reason to keep the pristine bonus in. Not everyone is going to be happy with the decision, or any decision made around this issue. Some favor one solution, others favor another, and yet others will just say nothing is broken don't touch it at all. What I don't understand are those who have posted on this thread and made it seem like Domino's decision to remove the pristine bonus entirely basically spells the end of tradeskilling.

Shazzie · 02-18-2011, 03:15 AM

I am slowly coming to terms with this change (while wildly leveling my non-90s NOW before this change happens), but one issue remains: the many items in our recipe books that were totally worthless before, except for the first time pristine xp, and now won't even be worth that. Some of these items were next to worthless due to prior stat changes, and will be even more worthless after this next stat change goes through with Velious. Some classes, like Scholars, will have recipe books half full of unwanted recipes (unwanted by the general public, that is, re: Journeyman spells), and might have not a single item worth putting up on the broker 'to see if it sells'. My Scholar will, I suppose, continue to remain offline until I need her, unlike my Carpenter and Alchemist and Provisioner, who are all active saleswomen.

So, how about a way to completely delete recipes out of my spell book? Since I'm sure the dev team won't have the time to go through and make these items useful.

Yes, I'm disgruntled. Yes, I'm feeling like crafters are second class (or less, it feels like it's gotten lower and lower over time) citizens in Norrath's world. Sure, I might be wrong, but it remains how I, personally, feel.

~a Grump.

Katz · 02-18-2011, 10:41 AM

Double xp weekend including tradeskill, scholar marathan leveling commencing today!

NardacMM · 02-18-2011, 12:44 PM

Having levelled a sage, provisioner, and weaponsmith, I think this is an excellent idea.

If it works as you've planned, then I look forward to it.

Cyliena · 02-18-2011, 12:46 PM

Katz wrote:

Double xp weekend including tradeskill, scholar marathan leveling commencing today!

My Sage and Alchemist do agree. SMILEY

Nrgy · 02-18-2011, 01:17 PM

I feel this is a good change to the TS system .. and I'm a Sage whom will suffer the most. My rl frinds is a Carpenter @90 and I felt pretty bad for them when they have only 2 or 3 new recipes per level when my Sage gets 20+.

Beyond that the Math will also be fine. As far as my Sage goes currently at 60-ish.

Each Pristine combine (with full Vitality) gives about 5% of a level. Each non-Pristine combine (with full Vitality) gives about 1.5% of a level. A Writ 'Turn-In' gives about 17% of a level.

Option A) Run 20 pristine recipes and Ding!

Option B) Run 4 writs (24 combines) and Ding! (with about 10% pushing into next level)

A = B ... there you go ....

Now if you want to level up faster ... here are a few tips ...most are common knowledge, if not all of them...

Use a Pot OR Berry (they do not stack) ...

Craft when VAT > 0 ...

Use a RAF (Only Helps when 'Turning-In' Writs not completing a combine and might need to have your AA slider @ 100 not certain on this as I'm adv lv 90)...

Use a Double xp weekend

SirDinadan · 02-18-2011, 01:39 PM

I would like to express my appreciation for this change. I've levelled a sage, weaponsmith, woodworker, armorer, jeweler, and two tailors to 90. The sage used pristine bonuses back during the period where there were no writs.. once they were put in game, he (and all the others) used writs as the sole method of levelling.

I find it much more rewarding to level while helping a guild, both with guild status, and personal status in escrow for the guild hall. I've held off working on my last two tradeskillers.. a 37 provisioner and a 62 jeweler.. as I'd like them to get the benefit of the tradeskill writ XP revision. It will probably be quite eye-opening for me to see the difference, but either way I think the change was well-designed to put everyone on a level playing ground.

Maroger · 02-18-2011, 06:17 PM

This is a nerf - no 2 ways about it. Pristine bonuses were great at lower levels since the writs are way too hard to do.

You have forgotten that the arts we get at lower level are too poor to do a rush writ. Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure.

I don't think you have given anough thought to the effect on lower level crafters - and I think this change should be level bases

I think lower levels should still get a pristine bonus -- honestly you have made tradeskills very unappealing and a lot of grind and tedium.

KerowynnKaotic · 02-18-2011, 08:48 PM

Vitality isn't affected by Quests but Quests aren't affected by Vitality, either. So, you'll use up less Vitality but you won't be getting as much use out of it as before, anyway. So, the point is rather moot. You'll only get as much as you would have if you had only made the item to 3rd rank.

You guys do realize it's not just your First Pristine Bonus that's been removed? It's the fact that every single time you took your item to Pristine (true for the most part everything needs to be "pristine" what with previous changes in crafting) but every single time you crafted even after your 1st run through it, you were always getting a Pristine Bonus. It's a hold over from the original system. When you could make different types of items based on their ranking.

Maybe 'cause she's changed the wording but in Beta she made it pretty clear that Both types of Pristine Bonus are being removed. I don't know, there's always hope that she changed that at least but in Beta she did say that BOTH Pristine Bonus and First Time Pristine Bonus were going away.

It's not the end of Crafting by any means it's just that, even though I have enjoyed every single one of Domino's quests and am still overall very happy to have her as our Crafting Dev, I have to wonder why I am paying @ $30 a month for 2 accounts to play in a MMO to follow along a solo game path that could be called EverQuestingCrafter or maybe it should be called simply "QuestCraft". Maybe that could be SOE's next big MMO title.

Not to mention any Crafter who's already 90 will be blowing their potential Quest Exp by doing any of the Quests till T10 comes along. So we go to 'hording pristine bonuses' to 'hording quests' .. not really a good change in my opinion.

Liandra · 02-18-2011, 09:09 PM

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

You guys do realize it's not just your First Pristine Bonus that's been removed? It's the fact that every single time you took your item to Pristine (true for the most part everything needs to be "pristine" what with previous changes in crafting) but every single time you crafted even after your 1st run through it, you were always getting a Pristine Bonus. It's a hold over from the original system. When you could make different types of items based on their ranking.

I dont know Kaisha.

I copied over a lvl 53 Armorer from live to beta. I did the exact same Lvl 50 writ for the exact same items on both servers. On both servers i get the exact same amout of xp for each of the 6 items. The only diference came when i handed in the writ. On Live i got 5.6% xp and on beta i got 22.4%xp

Bekkr · 02-18-2011, 10:40 PM

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

You guys do realize it's not just your First Pristine Bonus that's been removed? It's the fact that every single time you took your item to Pristine (true for the most part everything needs to be "pristine" what with previous changes in crafting) but every single time you crafted even after your 1st run through it, you were always getting a Pristine Bonus. It's a hold over from the original system. When you could make different types of items based on their ranking.

This is news to me. Never heard of it, never heard anyone mention anything like it, and it doesn't match with my experience tradeskilling over several years. Either way, Liandra's example strongly suggests that it's a non-issue.

Also, if you can't finish rush orders until around level 40, I dare say you're doing something wrong. I don't think I've ever failed a RO for any reason other than not paying attention, at any level. They're really not that hard, and I think any argument based on failing to finish them is inherently flawed.

Just my 2c.

Rijacki · 02-18-2011, 11:57 PM

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

Not to mention any Crafter who's already 90 will be blowing their potential Quest Exp by doing any of the Quests till T10 comes along. So we go to 'hording pristine bonuses' to 'hording quests' .. not really a good change in my opinion.

Adventurers at least have AA to get when they're max level. Crafters.... well.. do the crafting quests give AA?

Therendil · 02-19-2011, 01:58 AM

Maroger wrote:

Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure.

Horse hockey. Rush orders are too tough at 20, but get manageable by about level 24-26 if you know what you're doing.

-= Therendil =-

Seiffil · 02-19-2011, 04:30 AM

Rijacki wrote:

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:
Not to mention any Crafter who's already 90 will be blowing their potential Quest Exp by doing any of the Quests till T10 comes along. So we go to 'hording pristine bonuses' to 'hording quests' .. not really a good change in my opinion.
Adventurers at least have AA to get when they're max level. Crafters.... well.. do the crafting quests give AA?

Yea they do give AA except well, if you only craft and don't really do any adventuring, there's maybe 10 total AA's worth spending towards crafting. Swift creation and I guess bountiful harvest if you do your own harvesting.

Nuhus · 02-19-2011, 04:32 AM

Deson wrote:

Sages have been nerfed at last. That was worth logging in to comment on.

Indeed. Finally.

Te'ana · 02-19-2011, 05:05 AM

Therendil wrote:

Maroger wrote:
Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure.
Horse hockey. Rush orders are too tough at 20, but get manageable by about level 24-26 if you know what you're doing.
-= Therendil =-

To quote you, "horse hockey." I recently leveled up a crafter and it really is too difficult to do rush orders before about level 40 to 50, depending on your tradeskill. The non-timed writs just don't pay enough to be worth the effort.

Bekkr · 02-19-2011, 06:22 AM

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

The non-timed writs just don't pay enough to be worth the effort.

The way I read it, one of the main points of the change is that they will be. Rush orders obviously more so.

Meirril · 02-19-2011, 06:34 AM

Therendil wrote:

Maroger wrote:
Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure.
Horse hockey. Rush orders are too tough at 20, but get manageable by about level 24-26 if you know what you're doing.
-= Therendil =-

Funny, within the last year I leveled a jeweler from 20-80 on just rush orders. I started at 20. I didn't fail any rush orders at 20. I did finish most of them with less than 30 seconds remaining until I got to 30 but it only got easier as I leveled.

Why would a jeweler do only rush orders you might ask? To get Halas crafting faction of course. I still haven't hit max faction yet.

02-16-2011, 03:23 PM	#61
Whilhelmina Server: Storms Guild: Les Furies d Innoruuk Rank: Matriarches Tester Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: France (Storms) Posts: 3,161	I agree with you Kaisha, and I'll add what I already said: if you don't craft for pristine, you won't put items on the broker. Yeah, I know, most have no use, but I already had troubles finding handcrafted stuff and spells on the broker for NoTD in middle tiers and I fear that now there'll be nothing at all on the broker. __________________ French Tradeskill Guide and my houses.

02-16-2011, 04:58 PM	#62
Kulzor Server: Befallen Guild: Legends of Faydark Rank: Legend Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 19	Whilhelmina@Storms wrote: I agree with you Kaisha, and I'll add what I already said: if you don't craft for pristine, you won't put items on the broker. Yeah, I know, most have no use, but I already had troubles finding handcrafted stuff and spells on the broker for NoTD in middle tiers and I fear that now there'll be nothing at all on the broker. I've got every crafting class and skill max'd in the game. I never found any items selling that were made from blowing through new recipes. Those that DO sell are the hand-targeted recipes for certain types of food, arrows, and gear. Most crafters selling them don't make one (from the pristine bonus), they pump them out en-masse specifically to put on the broker. While the pristine xp bonus is great at lower levels, it's not as impressive at high levels. The change to writs ought to blow away the pristine bonus at those high levels. It also gives even more reason to do the crafting quest chains that have been added - whereas pre-Velious it's been more beneficial to skip them and just do pristine's. We do lose the wonderful bonus from doing each TS Instance the first time - on the other hand, doing Ship Out! should give a significant boost to xp just due to the quests. People are somehow missing the wonderful side-effects to doing writ-leveling. Mass quantities of status, continual gain of coin, and tokens. In some respects it'll be a guild buff because more guild status will be earned overall. The only real downside (without a trade-off bonus elsewhere) I'm seeing will be bonus xp weekends. If those percentages aren't significantly bumped up, then they won't be worth much. Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people. Overall, a welcome change. Edit: And a reminder that now there'll actually be a reason (decent xp) to do other crafting quests, since the rewards for most aren't very worthwhile. __________________ 90 SK, Warlock, Warden, Troubador, Wizard, Illy, Conjuror, Defiler, Pally, and two more 90 Warlocks. 90th in every crafting class + 450 Tinkering/Adorning.

02-16-2011, 05:10 PM	#63
Atropos Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 16	Kulzor@Befallen wrote: Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people. Hey, after an all-pristine leveling session you get to sell bags full of useless crap to a vendor to make room for the next leveling session. Boy, I'll miss that. /sarcasm off

02-16-2011, 05:57 PM	#64
Jrral Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,610	Kulzor@Befallen wrote: Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people. Agreed. For myself, I don't care whether I'm doing first-time combines or writs to level. What I care about is basically the number of combines I need to do to level. Doing 30 first-time combines or doing 5 writs requiring 6 combines each, it's still 30 combines worth of work. If those 5 writs gain me as much of a level as those 30 first-time combines, then for me it makes no difference.

02-16-2011, 06:29 PM	#65
KerowynnKaotic Tormentor of Fae Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Arizona Posts: 1,862	Jrral@Unrest wrote: Kulzor@Befallen wrote: Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people. Agreed. For myself, I don't care whether I'm doing first-time combines or writs to level. What I care about is basically the number of combines I need to do to level. Doing 30 first-time combines or doing 5 writs requiring 6 combines each, it's still 30 combines worth of work. If those 5 writs gain me as much of a level as those 30 first-time combines, then for me it makes no difference. It's only the exact same 30 combines if you suceed. And, even so it's still not really the same % of exp. But, seriously based on your example of your needs of as long as it's the same 30 combines .. you've never had an off day?! I find that hard to believe. Even with my Main with every little crafting toy there currently is in game I can have bad combines and have even failed a Rush writ or 2. Sure, sometimes that's 'cause I was involved with a chat or 2 so maybe my attention wasn't 100% on the clock but still it happens even without the added distraction from chat/rl/whatever. Sometimes the reacts are just not in your favor, sometimes you're lagging more than your lag meter says you are. Whatever .. Things happen in the course of that writ that will affect your outcome. And, if it does then it takes just that many more combines to finish that writ. Which sets you back from where you would have had it been your straight Pristine Bonus + Quest Reward. I just find it strange that a lot more of Crafters don't see this as a problem. I'm pretty comfortable in saying if SOE took away Group Kill bonus, the Adventurers would be up in arms about losing a vital part of their EXP. Sure, Adventurers get the same EXP regardless of Class but even so the Class dictates the type of mob that they can handle solo/duo/etc. But, Crafters Craft! We should get our Exp from Crafting! Quests & Writs are supposed to be extra and something for variety, not our main focus. We're supposed to be Crafting for the Players! Not Crafting for NPCs! I'd be all for bumping up Exp in Writs for those Classes without as many recipes in their books. I'd even be for upping those Classes Pristine bonus a little to compensate as well. But, I'm not for something that penalizes an entire structure for the supposeable benefit of a few. Though, personally, I would prefer an actual fix for the problem and not just another band-aid after another band-aid. But, adding in new recipes and making sure the recipes can create usable(sellable) items for all requires way more time/energy than SOE is willing to schedule in for a system that just isn't as important to their overall goal of the game. __________________

02-16-2011, 06:40 PM	#66
Whilhelmina Server: Storms Guild: Les Furies d Innoruuk Rank: Matriarches Tester Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: France (Storms) Posts: 3,161	Well, hubby just levelled armorer from 1 to 90, then Provi from 1 to 90 and is currently carpenter 49 (on the same toon) and he sold all handcrafted items for those 3 classes so far on the broker. It went slowly away but it WAS sold in the end. __________________ French Tradeskill Guide and my houses.

02-16-2011, 08:02 PM	#67
Enox Lord Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 14	Jrral@Unrest wrote: Kulzor@Befallen wrote: Last, how in the world can you guys talk about crafting pristines NOT being boring, but crafting writs IS boring? That's crazy-talk. You do the same 156156 (or 456456 if well geared) for both, no difference at all. In fact, the writ requires you to actually click on an NPC to turn-in and accept quests. The pristines are even more brainless than that, just double-clicking the next item in the list. Really people. Agreed. For myself, I don't care whether I'm doing first-time combines or writs to level. What I care about is basically the number of combines I need to do to level. Doing 30 first-time combines or doing 5 writs requiring 6 combines each, it's still 30 combines worth of work. If those 5 writs gain me as much of a level as those 30 first-time combines, then for me it makes no difference. This is the problem. Look at the math in Whilhelmina's post. It was far worse in her first post on the beta forums before writ xp was boosted again. In the current system it took her 82 combines to level. In the new system it took 114 combines. No one seems to be able to explain to me how this is better. Doing 32 extra combines for the same amount of xp is not an improvement.

02-16-2011, 08:18 PM	#68
Filly67 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 518	Yes, I will miss the bonuses but I think this is a fair change. I have four 90 tradeskillers but I am really noticing how unbalanced the bonuses are as I am currently leveling a woodworker and a jeweler at the same time. It seems only fair to level the playing field. Domino, before I started playing this game you were the one Dev that my husband constantly raved about and in the last year I can see why. Your attention to us tradeskillers is greatly appreciated. I can't wait to see the changes that have been added for us in DoV. Thanks for all that you do. __________________

02-16-2011, 09:09 PM	#69
Jeepned2 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 595	DominoDev wrote: Basically, this is what we expect it to feel like: if you formerly had very few pristine bonuses, and just crafted the same items over and over, leveling up will feel pretty much the same as ever. if you formerly had a lot of pristine bonuses, and crafted one of everything in your new books, leveling up will feel slower after this change. This is me! Not worried though. will simply stop crafting since I hate the writs and quests. oh well. if you run through crafting quests and/or do crafting writs, the speed should feel comparable to how a scholar class would have leveled up with a ton of pristine bonuses prior to this change. So, should feel like about the same leveling speed for scholars, and will probably feel a bit faster for classes with few recipes. The quests and writs are a massive bore fest for those of us who just want to level up our crafting and get it over with. WOOHOO, I get to make 200 of the same item to get 2% exp!!! No wonder that people who violate the EULA are normally crafters with thier crafter mods and bots. there is no longer any need to make one of every item in your recipe books just to turn around and sell them to a vendor, which should be nice. there is no longer any reason to hold off on making your exciting new items until a level cap raise to "save up" pristine bonuses - if you have a recipe and want to make it, do it! Overall, nobody should be leveling up slower, and low-recipe classes will find it now feels faster, since they will now be on an even footing with the scholar classes. Nobody should be leveling up slower?.. Tell that to the Scholars. Guess I'm confused. This massive new script requirement was for fixing what? One group gets to level faster because that have a bunch more recipes then someone else? You are kidding me right? at level 10 you could do four quick pristine crafts and ding. Now you're telling me I'll have to do what eight? ten? per level? Ok I realize that I'm not one of the rabid crafting fans. Whats mindless boring repetition for me is theraputic for others. But I just don't see the reason for using all that computing time to fix something that wasn't really broken. Seems like they could have used the computing time to fix all the things that are screwed up in the new expansion.

02-17-2011, 03:14 PM	#70
Jrral Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,610	Kaisha@Permafrost wrote: It's only the exact same 30 combines if you suceed. And, even so it's still not really the same % of exp. But, seriously based on your example of your needs of as long as it's the same 30 combines .. you've never had an off day?! I find that hard to believe. Even with my Main with every little crafting toy there currently is in game I can have bad combines and have even failed a Rush writ or 2. Well, if the same number of combines isn't giving me the same %XP, then I'm not getting the same portion of a level out of that same number of combines, right? Now, I do have a certain tolerance. Right now it generally doesn't take me long to run combines, nor writs for that matter. And yes, I have bad days, but it's been a long while since even the worst day resulted in my failing a rush-order writ. And I don't think I've ever failed a rush order past about the 30s, past that point I'm getting enough oomph from my reaction arts to deal with even repeated failures to counter without losing pristine. I just make it a point to keep my attention on the combine and do chat in between combines (or better yet, in between writs). There's also the flip side: vitality. Right now doing first-time combines burns vitality fairly quickly. Writs burn it far less rapidly because the quest XP from the writ doesn't use up vitality. At low levels vitality's rarely a problem, it takes so relatively few combines per level in the first few tiers that I can go through an entire tier and still have vitality left. But once I get into the upper tiers I can run out of vitality in 2-3 levels, and that slows down my leveling dramatically whether I continue to craft without vitality or wait for my vitality to regenerate. Leveling by writs should increase that to 4-5 levels before I run out of vitality, which'll be good in my book.

02-17-2011, 06:17 PM	#71
FrostDragon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Well given Crafting is an ADDICTION, I am sure most of us have some of the uber easy lvling classes and the epic slow. Skilling on writs is fine with me. I beef is with the selection of items for the writs. As tailor I hated them because all the names were almost the same. Found myself making the wrong uber long named item and until 60s the timer is not on your side given tradeskill gear unless you have a racial bonus plus the rest

02-18-2011, 12:20 AM	#72
Therendil Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 327	I have not had any problems finishing writs on time since TSO. Put 5 AA into Swift Creations and you have a constant 10% Progress bonus. All my characters do that now. They all also have whatever tinkered tools they can use. At level 33 that means two tools and a +3% success chance. Throw in one tradeskill pick from the first AA page and you should be good. I am also convinced that missed reaction events hurt more than people think. If I miss a big one, I will go the rest of that combine and maybe the next one working against what feels like a penalty. Conversely, if I haven't mised one in a while, I seem to breeze along. This is separate from the 'drift' in the RNG that makes success easier and harder over the course of a session. That said, my weakest crafters (the ones in their 30 with no special gear) routinely finish rush orders with 1:30-2:00 to spare. The 90s routinely finish with 3:30 or more. My Halfling Provisioner even finished one rush order with more than 4:00 to spare and he doesn't have any Far Seas gear. I don't chat while burning writs. There's a flow to doing it that really can't be interrupted. I'll chat between rush orders, but once I push the button to start, that's it. Jrral is dead on about vitality. Burning writs gets you more levels on the same Vitality than doing pristines. -= Therendil =- __________________

02-18-2011, 01:13 AM	#73
Seiffil Server: Permafrost Guild: Grievance Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 854	Kaisha@Permafrost wrote: I just find it strange that a lot more of Crafters don't see this as a problem. I'm pretty comfortable in saying if SOE took away Group Kill bonus, the Adventurers would be up in arms about losing a vital part of their EXP. Sure, Adventurers get the same EXP regardless of Class but even so the Class dictates the type of mob that they can handle solo/duo/etc. But, Crafters Craft! We should get our Exp from Crafting! Quests & Writs are supposed to be extra and something for variety, not our main focus. We're supposed to be Crafting for the Players! Not Crafting for NPCs! I'd be all for bumping up Exp in Writs for those Classes without as many recipes in their books. I'd even be for upping those Classes Pristine bonus a little to compensate as well. But, I'm not for something that penalizes an entire structure for the supposeable benefit of a few. Though, personally, I would prefer an actual fix for the problem and not just another band-aid after another band-aid. But, adding in new recipes and making sure the recipes can create usable(sellable) items for all requires way more time/energy than SOE is willing to schedule in for a system that just isn't as important to their overall goal of the game. I don't see it as a problem because as far as I'm concerned it isn't. There was a significant disparity in how long it took me to level up my non scholar crafters vs scholars. You even say we're supposed to craft for players, not for npcs, I hope you realize that with the pristine crafting bonus, most people are crafting for the vendor. I'm not going to bother wasting broker space or time trying to sell the journeyman spells/CAs I make generally. You mention you'd prefer an actual fix to the problem, we have an actual fix. They removed one bonus, and increased the amount of experience from writs. That people seem to ignore the pristine combine bonus significantly favored scholars over other tradeskill classes is mindboggling to me. Adding new recipes that just serve as filler to give some tradeskills more items to get pristine bonuses with is an even bigger bandaid. Just changing the pristine bonus award amount may have been an option, but honestly it just seems like avoiding the issue of why do we even get the pristine bonus in the first place. I remember crafting at release with all of the annoying sub combines. I remember crafting the crude or shaped item because I failed to keep the durability high enough. When they changed crafting so that the only item you could make was the pristine version, they really did remove any practical reason to keep the pristine bonus in. Not everyone is going to be happy with the decision, or any decision made around this issue. Some favor one solution, others favor another, and yet others will just say nothing is broken don't touch it at all. What I don't understand are those who have posted on this thread and made it seem like Domino's decision to remove the pristine bonus entirely basically spells the end of tradeskilling.

02-18-2011, 03:15 AM	#74
Shazzie Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 111	I am slowly coming to terms with this change (while wildly leveling my non-90s NOW before this change happens), but one issue remains: the many items in our recipe books that were totally worthless before, except for the first time pristine xp, and now won't even be worth that. Some of these items were next to worthless due to prior stat changes, and will be even more worthless after this next stat change goes through with Velious. Some classes, like Scholars, will have recipe books half full of unwanted recipes (unwanted by the general public, that is, re: Journeyman spells), and might have not a single item worth putting up on the broker 'to see if it sells'. My Scholar will, I suppose, continue to remain offline until I need her, unlike my Carpenter and Alchemist and Provisioner, who are all active saleswomen. So, how about a way to completely delete recipes out of my spell book? Since I'm sure the dev team won't have the time to go through and make these items useful. Yes, I'm disgruntled. Yes, I'm feeling like crafters are second class (or less, it feels like it's gotten lower and lower over time) citizens in Norrath's world. Sure, I might be wrong, but it remains how I, personally, feel. ~a Grump.

02-18-2011, 10:41 AM	#75
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Double xp weekend including tradeskill, scholar marathan leveling commencing today!

02-18-2011, 12:44 PM	#76
NardacMM Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 319	Having levelled a sage, provisioner, and weaponsmith, I think this is an excellent idea. If it works as you've planned, then I look forward to it. __________________

02-18-2011, 12:46 PM	#77
Cyliena Server: Everfrost Guild: Crusaders of Neriak Rank: Colonel Fansite Staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,798	Katz wrote: Double xp weekend including tradeskill, scholar marathan leveling commencing today! My Sage and Alchemist do agree.

02-18-2011, 01:17 PM	#78
Nrgy Lord Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,338	I feel this is a good change to the TS system .. and I'm a Sage whom will suffer the most. My rl frinds is a Carpenter @90 and I felt pretty bad for them when they have only 2 or 3 new recipes per level when my Sage gets 20+. Beyond that the Math will also be fine. As far as my Sage goes currently at 60-ish. Each Pristine combine (with full Vitality) gives about 5% of a level. Each non-Pristine combine (with full Vitality) gives about 1.5% of a level. A Writ 'Turn-In' gives about 17% of a level. Option A) Run 20 pristine recipes and Ding! Option B) Run 4 writs (24 combines) and Ding! (with about 10% pushing into next level) A = B ... there you go .... Now if you want to level up faster ... here are a few tips ...most are common knowledge, if not all of them... Use a Pot OR Berry (they do not stack) ... Craft when VAT > 0 ... Use a RAF (Only Helps when 'Turning-In' Writs not completing a combine and might need to have your AA slider @ 100 not certain on this as I'm adv lv 90)... Use a Double xp weekend

02-18-2011, 01:39 PM	#79
SirDinadan Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 195	I would like to express my appreciation for this change. I've levelled a sage, weaponsmith, woodworker, armorer, jeweler, and two tailors to 90. The sage used pristine bonuses back during the period where there were no writs.. once they were put in game, he (and all the others) used writs as the sole method of levelling. I find it much more rewarding to level while helping a guild, both with guild status, and personal status in escrow for the guild hall. I've held off working on my last two tradeskillers.. a 37 provisioner and a 62 jeweler.. as I'd like them to get the benefit of the tradeskill writ XP revision. It will probably be quite eye-opening for me to see the difference, but either way I think the change was well-designed to put everyone on a level playing ground.

02-18-2011, 06:17 PM	#80
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	This is a nerf - no 2 ways about it. Pristine bonuses were great at lower levels since the writs are way too hard to do. You have forgotten that the arts we get at lower level are too poor to do a rush writ. Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure. I don't think you have given anough thought to the effect on lower level crafters - and I think this change should be level bases I think lower levels should still get a pristine bonus -- honestly you have made tradeskills very unappealing and a lot of grind and tedium.

02-18-2011, 08:48 PM	#81
KerowynnKaotic Tormentor of Fae Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Arizona Posts: 1,862	Vitality isn't affected by Quests but Quests aren't affected by Vitality, either. So, you'll use up less Vitality but you won't be getting as much use out of it as before, anyway. So, the point is rather moot. You'll only get as much as you would have if you had only made the item to 3rd rank. You guys do realize it's not just your First Pristine Bonus that's been removed? It's the fact that every single time you took your item to Pristine (true for the most part everything needs to be "pristine" what with previous changes in crafting) but every single time you crafted even after your 1st run through it, you were always getting a Pristine Bonus. It's a hold over from the original system. When you could make different types of items based on their ranking. Maybe 'cause she's changed the wording but in Beta she made it pretty clear that Both types of Pristine Bonus are being removed. I don't know, there's always hope that she changed that at least but in Beta she did say that BOTH Pristine Bonus and First Time Pristine Bonus were going away. It's not the end of Crafting by any means it's just that, even though I have enjoyed every single one of Domino's quests and am still overall very happy to have her as our Crafting Dev, I have to wonder why I am paying @ $30 a month for 2 accounts to play in a MMO to follow along a solo game path that could be called EverQuestingCrafter or maybe it should be called simply "QuestCraft". Maybe that could be SOE's next big MMO title. Not to mention any Crafter who's already 90 will be blowing their potential Quest Exp by doing any of the Quests till T10 comes along. So we go to 'hording pristine bonuses' to 'hording quests' .. not really a good change in my opinion. __________________

02-18-2011, 09:09 PM	#82
Liandra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Splitpaw Posts: 281	Kaisha@Permafrost wrote: You guys do realize it's not just your First Pristine Bonus that's been removed? It's the fact that every single time you took your item to Pristine (true for the most part everything needs to be "pristine" what with previous changes in crafting) but every single time you crafted even after your 1st run through it, you were always getting a Pristine Bonus. It's a hold over from the original system. When you could make different types of items based on their ranking. I dont know Kaisha. I copied over a lvl 53 Armorer from live to beta. I did the exact same Lvl 50 writ for the exact same items on both servers. On both servers i get the exact same amout of xp for each of the 6 items. The only diference came when i handed in the writ. On Live i got 5.6% xp and on beta i got 22.4%xp __________________ ____________________________________________ Liandra on Splitpaw Server Lvl 92 Conjuror / Lvl 92 Jeweler Lvl 92 Alchemist / Armorer / Carpenter / Tailor / Provisioner

02-18-2011, 10:40 PM	#83
Bekkr Tester Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 208	Kaisha@Permafrost wrote: You guys do realize it's not just your First Pristine Bonus that's been removed? It's the fact that every single time you took your item to Pristine (true for the most part everything needs to be "pristine" what with previous changes in crafting) but every single time you crafted even after your 1st run through it, you were always getting a Pristine Bonus. It's a hold over from the original system. When you could make different types of items based on their ranking. This is news to me. Never heard of it, never heard anyone mention anything like it, and it doesn't match with my experience tradeskilling over several years. Either way, Liandra's example strongly suggests that it's a non-issue. Also, if you can't finish rush orders until around level 40, I dare say you're doing something wrong. I don't think I've ever failed a RO for any reason other than not paying attention, at any level. They're really not that hard, and I think any argument based on failing to finish them is inherently flawed. Just my 2c.

02-18-2011, 11:57 PM	#84
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Kaisha@Permafrost wrote: Not to mention any Crafter who's already 90 will be blowing their potential Quest Exp by doing any of the Quests till T10 comes along. So we go to 'hording pristine bonuses' to 'hording quests' .. not really a good change in my opinion. Adventurers at least have AA to get when they're max level. Crafters.... well.. do the crafting quests give AA? __________________

02-19-2011, 01:58 AM	#85
Therendil Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 327	Maroger wrote: Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure. Horse hockey. Rush orders are too tough at 20, but get manageable by about level 24-26 if you know what you're doing. -= Therendil =- __________________

02-19-2011, 04:30 AM	#86
Seiffil Server: Permafrost Guild: Grievance Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 854	Rijacki wrote: Kaisha@Permafrost wrote: Not to mention any Crafter who's already 90 will be blowing their potential Quest Exp by doing any of the Quests till T10 comes along. So we go to 'hording pristine bonuses' to 'hording quests' .. not really a good change in my opinion. Adventurers at least have AA to get when they're max level. Crafters.... well.. do the crafting quests give AA? Yea they do give AA except well, if you only craft and don't really do any adventuring, there's maybe 10 total AA's worth spending towards crafting. Swift creation and I guess bountiful harvest if you do your own harvesting.

02-19-2011, 04:32 AM	#87
Nuhus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,480	Deson wrote: Sages have been nerfed at last. That was worth logging in to comment on. Indeed. Finally. __________________ SOE will kill off EQ2 before it would naturally die.. 11/10/2004-9/19/2010 - for me

02-19-2011, 05:05 AM	#88
Te'ana Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 1,807	Therendil wrote: Maroger wrote: Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure. Horse hockey. Rush orders are too tough at 20, but get manageable by about level 24-26 if you know what you're doing. -= Therendil =- To quote you, "horse hockey." I recently leveled up a crafter and it really is too difficult to do rush orders before about level 40 to 50, depending on your tradeskill. The non-timed writs just don't pay enough to be worth the effort.

02-19-2011, 06:22 AM	#89
Bekkr Tester Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 208	Lateana@The Bazaar wrote: The non-timed writs just don't pay enough to be worth the effort. The way I read it, one of the main points of the change is that they will be. Rush orders obviously more so.

02-19-2011, 06:34 AM	#90
Meirril Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,552	Therendil wrote: Maroger wrote: Writs are really not practical until you reach level 40 when the arts are good enough to allow you to do the rush writs without failure. Horse hockey. Rush orders are too tough at 20, but get manageable by about level 24-26 if you know what you're doing. -= Therendil =- Funny, within the last year I leveled a jeweler from 20-80 on just rush orders. I started at 20. I didn't fail any rush orders at 20. I did finish most of them with less than 30 seconds remaining until I got to 30 but it only got easier as I leveled. Why would a jeweler do only rush orders you might ask? To get Halas crafting faction of course. I still haven't hit max faction yet.