GH lost XP

[Cronqar]

Durzin@Crushbone wrote:

You didn't lose any "progress". You still have the exact same amount of status that you had 1 second before the patch went live. The curve was adjusted, nothing more. You lost exactly nothing. Not one single point of status. Technically, you GAINED status, considering you may well have been de-leveled. It's too bad you have such anger towards this, considering it will be easier for you to level your guild than it was for us to level ours. When this went live, we went from level 71 to 74, because our "progress" had already taken us through those nasty hell-levels, which are now gone.

And no, I don't feel your pain. Status items give such pitifully small bumps to guild status that it's utterly laughable that you would be so angered by their loss. You get status for just doing dungeons and killing the boss now. We haven't actually tried to level our guild aside from quickly getting to level 30 for our guildhall, and we've gone from 1-75 in 4.5 months, of not actively trying.

Just play the game. All the whining and bellyaching serves no purpose, and will continue to be unproductive. In all the time that's been spending whining and moaning, guilds could have already been right back to where they were just by running instances and doing writs, if that's your thing.

So what's your excuse for not understanding the issue here? You didn't lose anything. You lost no guild levels. You lost no status. Nothing.

Go play the game and level your guild, f that's the only thing you want to do.

You still fail to understand the difference between progress towards the "next" goal and XP overall. I estimate that with Raids, Dungeon runs and status items ( which by he way gave me about 25% laughable XP towards the next level) it will take me about 40 hours of pure grinding to come to my break even point, when this change will actually have a positive effect for me. You can break his down further to how many hours someone plays per week, how many hours are spend in raid and groups and what is left for the grind for he guild. In an ideal situation this would equate to maybe  3 months, most likely probably 6 months of seeing and feeling the benefits of this change.

And so sorry that there is a tad of emotion involved even though I do think that you might be slightly exaggerating on those. To let you know "anger" and "pain" were purely intended as figures of speech, or am I OBLIVIOUS to my own issues here?

**danm spellschecker never get's it wright**

[Maroger]

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

I am part of two small guilds that have lost progress towards their goals. We are all too disheartened to get back into the grind towards our goals. We just can't face that uphill battle again at present.

I agree with you 100%. SOE does not understand the difference between Mathematical reality ( I.e. what they just did) and the human effort and grind that goes into progressing to a certain point ( something they don't care about).

SOE is only interested in mathematical reality - not in how their version of reality affects human beings who pay for and play their game.

[Caytor]

Great job.

We are a small gilld of only two casual players. Before the change we were about 4% below level 60. After the patch we found ourselves at 59,00. We lost about 96% xp.

It may be right that it is better for greater guilds and on the long run to 90. Maybe you should have in mind how frustrating it is to loose the work of months for a small guild.

[Elskidor]

Caytor wrote:

Great job.

We are a small gilld of only two casual players. Before the change we were about 4% below level 60. After the patch we found ourselves at 59,00. We lost about 96% xp.

It may be right that it is better for greater guilds and on the long run to 90. Maybe you should have in mind how frustrating it is to loose the work of months for a small guild.

And bam that's the point the other side of the argument doesn't understand. 4% to level 60 all to be lost is beyond silly and a bloody kick to the teeth to a tiny casual guild like Caytor's and any other. Sure it might be easier to reach level 90 now, but do small casual guilds really have high hopes of hitting 90 any time in the foreseeable future? Only the dreamers. Most of the small guilds are more or less looking at level 60 as a major hallmark level to grant more bank space, mounts and a few more amenities, because a level like 60 with two casual players is MAJOR. Hell, 2 casual players may not see level 90 for another few years, even with this new curve, So their 60 is much like level 90. 

Surprised this thread is still alive though. 

[Notsovilepriest]

Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.

[Crismorn]

Obviously were not allowed to have progress bars as they are far too confusing, please do not add them in the next mmo.

[Maroger]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.

It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.

[Crismorn]

You are right SoE should never have added the progress bar in the first place, I blame that bar for the last 11 pages of mass confusion.

[Notsovilepriest]

Maroger wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.

It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.

They didn't steal from anyone, people who can't understand simple numerical data are crying foul

[Maroger]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.

It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.

They didn't steal from anyone, people who can't understand simple numerical data are crying foul

It is not crying foul -- THEY STOLE hours of players grinding work to level a small guild. That was simply not fair - I don't care how mathematiclaly accurate it is. There are some things that when you do them you need to consider the human impact- SOE has no concept of the human impact when they make these sort of mathematical changes.

If you were close to your next level it would have been fairer to players in small guild to give them that next level.

[Notsovilepriest]

Maroger wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.

It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.

They didn't steal from anyone, people who can't understand simple numerical data are crying foul

It is not crying foul -- THEY STOLE hours of players grinding work to level a small guild. That was simply not fair - I don't care how mathematiclaly accurate it is. There are some things that when you do them you need to consider the human impact- SOE has no concept of the human impact when they make these sort of mathematical changes.

If you were close to your next level it would have been fairer to players in small guild to give them that next level.

The Stole NOTHING. It will be EASIER to gain the experience as you go on than before. You didn't lose XP you are at where you were numerically or actually ahead of where you were.

[Kenrod]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

The Stole NOTHING. It will be EASIER to gain the experience as you go on than before. You didn't lose XP you are at where you were numerically or actually ahead of where you were.

It'll be easier just to give up tbh. I have.

They don't want to see what actually happened. They just know their yellow bar went down, therefore someone took something away from them. One person in this thread even said they didn't care about the mathematical data.

Eventually the QQ will all end, and this thread will finally get to rest in the land of no-one-cares-anymore.

[Telnights]

Well what I dont udnerstand is why even do this at all. From what I have read it doesnt make it take less XP to reach 90 for most of the guilds out there. They just spread it out more evenly so you dont have hell levels. But does that really help anyone at all or just the guilds that were at there last hell level.

[Illmarr]

Telnights wrote:

Well what I dont udnerstand is why even do this at all. From what I have read it doesnt make it take less XP to reach 90 for most of the guilds out there. They just spread it out more evenly so you dont have hell levels. But does that really help anyone at all or just the guilds that were at there last hell level.

In theory it will help any Guild starting from this point forward as well as any guild that has already passed hell levels.

My original Guild with my friends from EQ1 was already past them and at level 74, so I logged in Tuesday and found we'd gained 2 levels to 76. The Raid Guild my main is apping to was a decent amount (half to three quarters I think) into 66 and was 67 before we started raiding, but I don't think writs are set to save to event history so I'm not sure how much if any status was earned from them before raids started again. The Guild I have an alt in on Permafrost with some other friends and WoW refugees was about 15% into level 16 and saw no appreciable change whatsoever. For that Guild the road to 30 and the first Guild Hall should be much easier than in the past where there was a massive jump in exp needed to level 26-30

[Trellium]

On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon.  A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.

[Maroger]

Trellium wrote:

On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon.  A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.

Unless you are getting the pain now by being stabbed in the back by SOE's desire for mathematical perfection and to heck with people's time and effort ( that doesn'[t matter at all to development) -- in their eyes our time is worth nothing to them as they constantly penalize it.

[MrWolfie]

I don't see any refute to my assertion that levels with rewards now take more XP to reach than before.

You say we've lost nothing, but those who want to reach 60, 65 or 70 to get the associated rewards are being asked to do more than people who went before. (And, given that we do have a progress bar, having to do more than was previously expected).

It's like teasing an animal with a treat only to move it further away each time the animal makes a move for it. Sooner or later, the animal is going to bite.

[MrWolfie]

Trellium wrote:

On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon.  A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.

Actually, hell-levels were just smoothed into the levels around them. So now the "quickie" levels are longer.

If hell-levels had been removed to be the same as the normal levels around them, then removing the ones in 50-60 would have resulted in people getting to 60 quicker. This is not the case.

[Notsovilepriest]

Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:

I don't see any refute to my assertion that levels with rewards now take more XP to reach than before.

You say we've lost nothing, but those who want to reach 60, 65 or 70 to get the associated rewards are being asked to do more than people who went before. (And, given that we do have a progress bar, having to do more than was previously expected).

It's like teasing an animal with a treat only to move it further away each time the animal makes a move for it. Sooner or later, the animal is going to bite.

Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.

[MrWolfie]

Durzin@Crushbone wrote:

Technically, you GAINED status, considering you may well have been de-leveled.

Don't get confused with XP - it's not about XP. Status XP is a meaningless number until it's tied to rewards. And those rewards have been moved. It takes more XP to get to certain levels now - it's those levels that are being complained about.

If I tell you it takes a 5 mile run to win a "Gold Cup" and you run those five miles, but I then tell you that while you were out running the rules changed and, while your five miles still count, the finish line for the Gold Cup is now 6 miles. However, everyone who ran five miles yesterday received their Gold Cup, what would you do - run another mile or complain it's unfair?

Only a mug would run the extra mile.

[MrWolfie]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.

What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.

In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.

[Notsovilepriest]

Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.

What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.

In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.

Incorrect, There will always be a complaint from some player base, period. It's the nature of an MMO. Those that are actually motivated and have the means to reach max guild level can now easier, while those who are leveled lower didn't lose anything, but they feel like they did. You are recognized for what you already traveled, that or more, how are you people not getting that.

Also I dont' get how leveling a guild is so hard anyways, A group of 6 of us leveled a guild to 30 in less than a week...I mean that doesn't seem that bad.

[Maroger]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.

What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.

In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.

Incorrect, There will always be a complaint from some player base, period. It's the nature of an MMO. Those that are actually motivated and have the means to reach max guild level can now easier, while those who are leveled lower didn't lose anything, but they feel like they did. You are recognized for what you already traveled, that or more, how are you people not getting that.

Also I dont' get how leveling a guild is so hard anyways, A group of 6 of us leveled a guild to 30 in less than a week...I mean that doesn't seem that bad.

Getting to 30 is not hard - you can buy tokens to speed it up -- getting to 30 is the easy part. Going from 50-60 is the hard part and being cheated out of work by SOE make their change a huge slap in the face. Sorry you have so much trouble comprehending that.

Other posted have given enough great example for you to easily understand that SOE has demeaned the player's work and efforts to level a small guild by stealing the progress they had obtained in the name of mathematical purity.

[Notsovilepriest]

Maroger wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.

What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.

In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.

Incorrect, There will always be a complaint from some player base, period. It's the nature of an MMO. Those that are actually motivated and have the means to reach max guild level can now easier, while those who are leveled lower didn't lose anything, but they feel like they did. You are recognized for what you already traveled, that or more, how are you people not getting that.

Also I dont' get how leveling a guild is so hard anyways, A group of 6 of us leveled a guild to 30 in less than a week...I mean that doesn't seem that bad.

Getting to 30 is not hard - you can buy tokens to speed it up -- getting to 30 is the easy part. Going from 50-60 is the hard part and being cheated out of work by SOE make their change a huge slap in the face. Sorry you have so much trouble comprehending that.

Other posted have given enough great example for you to easily understand that SOE has demeaned the player's work and efforts to level a small guild by stealing the progress they had obtained in the name of mathematical purity.

I can't comprehend illogical thoughts easy, I appologize.

[Te'ana]

Well, since Notsoevilpriest is an Erudite, I can see why mathmatical purity is all he can understand

[greenmantle]

What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?

Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.

The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.

Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.

Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we  made the Porche cheeper.

[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.

[Dreyco]

greenmantle wrote:

What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?

Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.

The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.

Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.

Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we  made the Porche cheeper.

[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.

Because like most things, Experience is numeric.  It is a number that you gain in status points.  That status point represents where the game understands you are in guild level.

In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status.  You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier.  Therefor, getting back to where you are, and beyond, is now easier.

[Notsovilepriest]

Dreyco wrote:

greenmantle wrote:

What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?

Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.

The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.

Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.

Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we  made the Porche cheeper.

[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.

Because like most things, Experience is numeric.  It is a number that you gain in status points.  That status point represents where the game understands you are in guild level.

In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status.  You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier.  Therefor, getting back to where you are, and beyond, is now easier.

THIS GUY GETS IT!

[Kenrod]

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Dreyco wrote:

greenmantle wrote:

What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?

Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.

The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.

Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.

Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we  made the Porche cheeper.

[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.

Because like most things, Experience is numeric.  It is a number that you gain in status points.  That status point represents where the game understands you are in guild level.

In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status.  You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier.  Therefor, getting back to where you are, and beyond, is now easier.

THIS GUY GETS IT!

It's going to be MUCH easier I think.

We were right at 75 tonight, and after clearing Tox and PCAL, we were at 76.5.

That's a LOT of status in one night. Way more than we've been seeing.

[SlashnGut]

Rothgar wrote:

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

It seems hard to believe that moving from 65% of level 55 to 0% of level 55 is actually an improvement. You should have let folks retain thier progress.

If you saw the old leveling curve and the new one, it would be easier to understand.   

BS - it should have been left as it was as far as amount of xp the guild already had to next level. Once again sony screwed the pooch as they are wont to do on most supposed fixes they make. Only way to fix something is by completely screwing something else up.