Developers are about to create a HUGE imbalance between the summoner classes

[Germs666]

Unless Elemental Blast gets reworked when Time Warp goes live there will be no way for Necromancers to keep up with Conji's damage.

Before only pampered Conji's had the luxury of getting their pet time warped , now their pets will get time warp for every Elemental Blast because both abilites will have a 2 min recast.

Instead of making TW not affect pets, which would hurt Necros as well, I have a good idea.

Elemental Blast

-5 min recast

-Elemental immunity, no other conji can use EB for 30 sec

- unmodifiable by ability mod/double attack.

Sound like a good idea?

No? Well guess which spell needs to be revamped for necros before this change goes live?

[kelvmor]

Lifeburn?

[Exelance]

Hows about change LB?

Lifeburn. 

does 10 tics to the target dealing 50% of the necros max health per tic.  allow it to crit/SDA and be effected by POT/CB.

only takes health for the first tic.

[Germs666]

Lifeburn

2 min recast

no immunity so other necros get "dps blocked"

ability mod/crit chance/crit bonus/double attack

Accelerated Decay/UT adds appropriate ticks.

I think that would be a fair exchange for EB in it's current form, considering it still involves healing.

[Ironcleaver]

while your tinkering with lifeburn, also tinker with manaburn - that ability hasnt been useful for over 2+ years.

[joseph]

look if your going to do this devs please remove the health loss effect of life burn or up necromancer  pets dps

this is really goign to mess up the balance of classes

[Xalmat]

You all realize that Time Warp GREATLY speeds up how fast your DoTs tick right?

Also it will be impossible to sync Time Warp and Elemental Blast except for every other TW. Time Warp's recast is significantly faster than Elemental Blast's.

[Sigmaz01]

Excluding the fact that TW and EB wont really be up at the same time it would be nice to see a buff to Life Burn and Mana burn to keep up :0 or fix undead horde hehe either way it is a bit bigger buff for conjs then it is for necros on these changes to TW.

[Exelance]

Just because TW will be up faster than EB doesn't really matter in the long run.  what illy is going to cast it every time its up?  not going ot get much use out of it that way.

still are going to wait for Dispatch or other major buffs/debuffs.

[Masuma]

Xalmat wrote:

You all realize that Time Warp GREATLY speeds up how fast your DoTs tick right?

Also it will be impossible to sync Time Warp and Elemental Blast except for every other TW. Time Warp's recast is significantly faster than Elemental Blast's.

That and:

- there are other things that are other very important abilities that Elemental Blast needs to be timed with:

  - Planeshift up + using Elemental Blast when the mob is very debuffed can often create more dps than a noncritting and badly timed, but double hitting Elemental blast.

- if the illusionist uses Timewarp very early in the fight I might have to avoid casting Elemental Blast while it's up because the sudden spike damage is likely to give my pet agro, which means I will frontal the raid and, especially if it is a named fight, lose plane shift - which means a siginificant loss of DPS

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great chance but I don't think you have to be as worried.

I do however think that Lifeburn should have less HP penalty, I feel bad for necros when I hear healers say: "Your Lifeburn screws up my DPS".

[Ragnaphore]

Xalmat wrote:

You all realize that Time Warp GREATLY speeds up how fast your DoTs tick right?

Unless they remove the cap for +ticks to Dots, it's still useless except for Bloodcoil in PvE.

[thog_zork]

wow askign for nerf of other classes are really the lamest thing to do ...

why not ask for buff to your class instead ?

you know that for most good conjuror it will make it harder to timewarp an EB ?

because coordination was not the problem but now TW will be up before EB and the illuionist will cast it almost ever when up ;(  so basically it is a nerf to conjuror in a raid which works together a.k.a. good raid and a buff to the ones which are not that well organized

[Faeward]

I don't play a summoner but my friend did. He played a Necro. I do think that the Necro abilities need to be checked out.

I believe Lifeburn should crit. I think the fact that Lifeburn draining health should stick and it should drain as much health as it does right now. It seems about right. When I am healing a Necro performing a Lifeburn, I barely notice their health drop with the HoT's keeping them up. Lifeburn is IMO a much more useful ability than Manaburn as power is many times more difficult to regenerate than health.

Also something really cool awesome like Elemental Blast.

[Germs666]

I will not be impossible to time at all. You can use ACT to set up timers. I'm sure the illy would also wait an extra 20 sec if EB wasn't up because it would have the potential to bring so much more damage.

I know plane shift won't be up until on every 3rd EB but having 100% double attack every 2 min and Elemental blast every 2 minutes would almost be the equivalent of having EB on a 1 min recast.

So in theory you could have an SK,Illy,3 conjis and a healer in 1 group and just EB everything to death because there is no immunity on that spell like Lifeburn has.

Any Conji who claims EB is not overpowered is in serious denial. Even the top WW necro thinks EB in it's current state is insanely  OP.  Go on EQ2 flames and look up Oonej. He's getting EB and Time Warp to break 1 million damage.

I'm not asking for a direct nerf to EB itself, I'm asking the devs to look at lifeburn seriously and I want them to address why lifeburn needs to have a damage immunity for 30 seconds when EB doesn't. I also want to know why EB has such a short recast since beta changed it. 

If they let this go live before they, boost lifeburn or  nerf EB that will just show that the devs have no regards for class balance issues at all.

oh and btw Thog did you betray from the necro class when SF hit? I would be in denial about EB being overpowered as well if I betrayed.

[thog_zork]

Why ask for a nerf ? i do not deny that conjuror are dps wise where they belong however necros need a boost ..

nerfing EB would only set back conjuror back from their place ... right now there are were they belong dmg wise below wizzard/lock/assa and on a level with rougues/ranger

but please note that i agree that necros need some urgent love ! e.g. LB, swarm pet to dots (or something) and dot stacking. nerfing conjuror dps will not help you a necro at all !

So why nerf conjuror dps to bring them on par with necros (who right now are underpowered) instead of buffing/fixing necros ?

[theriatis]

Hi,

because thats the way peoples brains here work...

Nerf other classes because i do less DPS / have less Utility / need more Taunts / etc., instead of fixing the own class...

Last time as a fix/change for a (specific) Spell of a specific Class was included in Hotfixes, a cryout from the oppositeclass came and told the Devs that this change will overpower this class... and instead of wanting a fix themselves for abroken ability they had, which would have put them on par with that other class, they demanded a nerf to that Spell...

Go Figure.

Regards, theriatis.

[Masuma]

yes it is nice and fun sometimes to have a spike damage spell, it is nice to be able to try and time it perfectly well in order to get max dps out of it. Only experienced / skilled conjurors will do that though. Most of the other conjis I met where surprised when I said, time your stuff with dispatch for example.

The disadvantage of nice spiking fun spells is though that it makes my pet die more often. Not all tanks and only well buffed once hold the really high spiking Elemental Blast hits.

Zonewide, in most zones, EB seems to sit at around 10% of my zonewide for me. I don't think that is overpowered compared to other classes SF end abilties. A warlock friend of mine, while doing less DPS zonewide, had more DPS from his SF endability (Dark Overflow + Dark Aggravation).

Cap for extra tick on dots is really stupid, though, and should be removed.

[Valdaglerion]

It has taken conjs years to get some loving while necros shined and now you want to nerf the class because of something you think might happen and how it might not be fair to you.

In all honestly, you can betray and be a conj. If you want to keep playing the necro then figure out what is broken in your class and ask for those to be fixed. 

I didnt see you asking to give the conj heals, rez, another heavy nuke or any other utility. I must have missed those requests in your post.

[Seiffil]

thog_zork wrote:

Why ask for a nerf ? i do not deny that conjuror are dps wise where they belong however necros need a boost ..

nerfing EB would only set back conjuror back from their place ... right now there are were they belong dmg wise below wizzard/lock/assa and on a level with rougues/ranger

People shouldn't be asking for another class to be nerfed, but that doesn't mean that they can't make the claim that conjurors will clearly benefit more from the timewarp change because of its effectiveness with EB.  Would be better to try to talk about getting spell DA to work better, cause as it is now, it's much better for a class that relies on DD for damage then a class that uses dots most extensively.

And conjurors shouldn't be on par with rangers btw, rangers are "supposed" to be t1 dps, so conjurors should be below them.

[Germs666]

I'm just really tired of people saying that summoners are becoming t1 dps because it's only one summoner and it's because of EB and the pet gear/mechanics.

The developers said that they thought EB was going to mean instant death for the pet and it's going to be looked at, yet they go ahead and pretend the TW change won't enhance EB even further??!!

It just seems really irresponsible. Spell double attack and multi attack are just going to create more imbalances.

[acctlc]

Implement shared stats so a certain someones pet isn't reaching top lvls of 150+ potency (more should they get the fabled pet items in the new hardmode arcanum instance) potency when they hit EB, and tweak the class appropriately dps wise and problem solved.  I guarantee you EB will longer be a concern and even with the ability to double won't be hititng as high.  Zw however I'd agree EB is about where it should be..bout 10%.  I don't see that jumping much just because of groupwide TW.   Can necro's do 10% zw with lifeburn?  Honestly I dunno but probably.  Should it be easier for them and should they be able to..absolutely.

As always tho I must point out, summoners are without a clear purpose this  or any xpac without dps considered.   Stoneskins?  Get a dirge if you need them.  Raidwide buff....not exactly a reason to run one unless his parse is stellar tbh.  Etox?  Nice but zw not really that impressive, you want aoe damage you can hire a lock.  Unless the game developers can come up with a reason you *have* to run a summoner..and I mean really have to, dps needs to be extremely competitive but shared stats would take the extremely overpowered ones out of the equation thanks to their perfect picking and choosing of pet effects and remove the itemizations headaches from the rest of us!

[Solarax]

personally if they just decided to greatly increase LB i would call it even but they would have to make it worthwhile.

btw i have epic Necro and illy and 2 ( Yes 2) Conjurors all on the same account. next is lock since i hav a baby wiz too

[JenoJeno]

a good necro can keep up with a conj with no problem (assuming same group buffs / vc's / etc) for end gear raiding.

There have been times i was out parsed by a necro, and others where i beat the wizard. It all boils down to the duration of the fight.

Our planeshift is only good for 1 minute which makes our pet a god for short fights. We are lucky if we can get planeshift off for more than 1 time a fight. So, 1 minute of a little extra potency / crit chance / etc is for our burst damage. Once that wears off, we lose crit chance, making the necro / wizard / etc able to slowly gain on us since they have more long duration fight damage.

But I do have to agree that necro's should have their lifeburn optimized for raiding. Less health reduction would be a good start. Our eb is direct damage, where a necro needs a big heal incomin for the 10 ticks, which makes it a bit tricky to get off during a hard encounter with nasty aoe's. So if I would suggest anything, just remove that.

Another thing, conjurors reuse on EB (with endgear) is aprox. 1:47 seconds in raids give or take a few for those with a little more reuse

An Illies TW (endgear) is aprox. 1:22 seconds. This leaves 25 seconds an illy would have to sit on TW before casting it in order to wait for our EB which can be annoying.

So we can either a) wait for TW for the next run or just go without it from there on out because they will never meet up again for a while...

If we assume that the illy cast's TW right when its up vs the time a conj casts EB (every time its up) it looks as if we can get in on the first TW and the 4th TW.

We would have to wait 7 seconds to cast our 4th eb if this were the cast to time it with TW, which will then restart this table time order.

0	0
1:22	1:47
2:44	3:34
4:06	5:21
5:28	7:08

[Hirofortis]

LOL, I love peeps that cry nerf.  Why don't you play a conjy and realize that we can't just eb willy nilly.  TW + EB = a dead conjy unless things are just right.  We can't just eb every time we see a tw.  Would be nice, but not realistic.  Not to mention if you look at the parse over a long fight it is actually pretty balanced.  

What you should be doing instead of whining is offer constructive ideas on how the necro can be fixed.  The conjy is hitting right where they should be.  Stop with the nerf garbage and work at fixing.  I have watched my conjy be useless for years now, even longer than sk's and now that we actually can do our job you want to nerf it.  Give it a rest.  

I would love to see where a good necro is parsing at.  Then lets compare and offer suggestions to fix necros.  Stop with the nerf calls.  SOE already nerfs thigns bad enough without whiners adding to the list.

[Solarax]

having both i can say my better geared necro still does lower parses in groups and has more AA especially in short fights, thats why i say just bring up necros to be on par, no need to nerf conji ( not just because i have 2 of them myself)

[Davngr1]

the necro class has been ignored since RoK and dev's continue giveing the class stupid abilities with penaltys that aren't justified by the low damage potential.

  i don't want my necro to be easy mode but for god sake UNDERSTAND that my necro is NOT fun to play because he DIES from regular game play!

  that IS NOT COOL specially when he's not even close to other dps classes..   seriously remove the reetarded health penalties and lower lifeburn/undead horde recast and call it a day.

   that can be done in one of the hot fixes ..  it requires no new aa and no revamp of  current class mechanics.     simple, please do it.     of course it's no surprice that this thread has recived no attention from red names.

[Exelance]

I Really think this thread needs more constructive ideas and less /nerf /wrists whining that the necros are doing.   I played a Necro in ROK, early TSO.  they were hard,  i died a bit to LB.  they need buffing.   I prefer my conjy over the necro now.  its more fun.

I've watched the classes be nerfed and be useless for years.  i am finnaly happy with my choice of main.  I play a summoner because i like the challenge.  i have the ability to top parses on rare occasions.  if i work hard i can do it.  am i supposed to top them all the time?  no.  i fall below the Sorcs, Assassins.  normally just above the swashy depending on the fight.  sometimes below them.

On a bad pull i will end up below the chanters and bards.  why?  i messed up and did something wrong.

I do not believe in the DPS Tiers but its hard wired into the game and i have to live with it.   but i always on edge about my class. 

If Velious comes and the class is changed to the point were i am unable to even have the chance to top a parse (not always and not on ultra rare occasions ether)  i most likely will move on.  there are other games on the verge of release that i am already planning on playing.

But ether way.  Lets get a bit more Buffage ideas here from necros on what you think will make you better.  not the nerf nerf nerf bull ****. 

Buff LB, Reduse the damage.  take away the HP drain. let it be effected by CRIT/CB/POT/SDA. 

fix all the dumbfire pets so they are AE immune. 

reduse the reuse on UH and max the number of pets it summons and ajust the max numbers a bit. 

Fix Spell douple attack problem on DOTS ether by doubleing the damage or adding a second dot all together.

[Mosha D'Khan]

Hirofortis@Everfrost wrote:

LOL, I love peeps that cry nerf.  Why don't you play a conjy and realize that we can't just eb willy nilly.  TW + EB = a dead conjy unless things are just right.  We can't just eb every time we see a tw.  Would be nice, but not realistic.  Not to mention if you look at the parse over a long fight it is actually pretty balanced.  

What you should be doing instead of whining is offer constructive ideas on how the necro can be fixed.  The conjy is hitting right where they should be.  Stop with the nerf garbage and work at fixing.  I have watched my conjy be useless for years now, even longer than sk's and now that we actually can do our job you want to nerf it.  Give it a rest.  

I would love to see where a good necro is parsing at.  Then lets compare and offer suggestions to fix necros.  Stop with the nerf calls.  SOE already nerfs thigns bad enough without whiners adding to the list.

enough with the crappy dead conjy stuff. it is sad you are using that reasoning. all it takes is 1 snap from a fighter to get it back, if you die it is because the tank is afk auto attacking. and a 1million hit to a what 300k LB is way OP, unless you were to uncap dots, make it crit, with pot, CB, and take away the life drain effect. you realize that a necro dies way easier than a conjy when using theirs because i lose heals and die to an AE. were you just get agro and have a lazy tank that does not want to burn a snap.

so please enough with we are not OP, because you are and you know it. you just dont want a nerf to you like every fighter got. and making everyone on par by buffing the class is not the way to go because it makes mob/zone/raid to easy.

on a final note, last i saw rangers where one par with assassins because of the range fixing, so if you are on par with rangers that means you are on par with assassins.

[Samulbrar]

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=45097...post_id=5447932 Troll comment.

[Rhadamanth]

Hirofortis@Everfrost wrote:

I would love to see where a good necro is parsing at.  Then lets compare and offer suggestions to fix necros. 

In the Top End Guild Parse thread, there were two posts where a conjy and a necro were respectively the top parsers.  The conjuror was at ~125k and the necro was ~62k.  The guild with the conjy was obviously much better because of how quickly they killed Rathgar, but necros generally need time to do their dps because of their dots.  So, I am not sure this necro would have seen enough of an increase to match 125k had he been in that fight.  Considering a conjy has the potential to double the dps of a necro, I think necros need some help.  Allowing LB to benefit from stats, changing dumbfires to dots, and changing the tick mechanics of dots should be a good start.