Why poeple think SK are overpowered.

[Gonzo550]

I've seen an SK consistently pull 40k parses on solo mobs. 50k+ easily on groups. SKs have three lives that always work, unlike other tank deathsaves that only sometimes work. And a 3 minute recast, out of combat doesnt matter compaired to what ther tanks have. SKs can pull several rooms of mobs solo and it actually helps them live (only zerkers have similar). SKs can pretty much pull agro off of any tank class with a single spell from the bottom of the hate list and the other tanks can't get it back. SKs make other tank classes look bad plain and simple. Warriors have had to give up their spots in their guilds, either playing alts or just moving on, because everyone wants an SK. Why would we not hate that? Why would we not scream nerf especially when we've asked for fixes to the warrior classes for years only to see our cries fall on deaf ears while SKs take over. Hell yeah I hate SKs but I don't blame the people who play them.

[Bruener]

Rahatmattata wrote:

You are so unintelligent it's truly incredible. Guardians were designed to be the most defensive pure tank. You claim guardians were designed to main tank raids, which is completely wrong, and therefore the balance is they suck at everything else. There is so much wrong with your poor excuse for an argument it's hard to pick a spot to begin. The most obvious thing to point out is guards do not have exclusive rights to the "main tanker of epic mobs" position. This role is successfully being achieved by all plate tanks in many guilds at various levels of progression. Second, being the "main tanker of epic mobs" is not some holy divine role that requires one to suck terribly at every other aspect of the game. Third, it would be pretty stupid for EQ2 devs to design such a niche class for a single role in certain situations that a miniscule fraction of the population will fill.

You might as well say brawlers were designed for soloing, therefore they should suck at everything else. Shadowknight was designed to be mediocre and merely sufficient at everything. Some of your viewpoints on fighter balance is truly /facepalm.

Guards are clearly the most defensive tank in the game.  But that is not what you guys really want.  You want to be both the most defensvie tank in the game AND dish out just as much DPS as the offensive tanks.

Its dumb and even with the changes on test right now securing more than ever the role of Guard as the most defensive tank people like you just complain because it is not enough.  You will not be happy until Guards are given all those defensive tools and equal offensive tools.

Yes content becomes trivial especially as you over gear.  So my offensive SK doesn't have to worry about as many heals in heroic content, I am geared way beyond it.  In fact they catered the content to casuals so much that lots of zones were a cake walk walking in with my TSO gear.  None of that changes the fact though that Guards are the most defensive tank hands down and even though you say that is all you want and that is all you rolled your class for, it really doesn't make you enjoy the game.

Fricken EMO Guards just can't be happy with some attention from the Devs.  Nope they gotta make sure every other tank is nerfed until they are the only choice for tanking.  I am sure if you got your way and SKs were nerfed even more you would be all over Paladins and Zerkers, than realizing how blind you were you would go straight for the Brawlers after.  Kill 5 tanks to make 1 the best....great strat.

[Rahatmattata]

If guards were clearly the most defensive tank, they could walk into a room solo and live longer than any other tank could. Obviously, that is not how it works.

Oh, and nice sig btw

[Wasuna]

Breuner,

Your perspective is completely out of whack of just about everybody else in the Fighter forums. Even your Raid MT has come here and demonstrated that the Guardian at the highest end of raid tanking has equal survivability to all others. How does that make the Guardian the defacto main tank?

Again, your wrong and someday you'll either leave the game still being wrong or you'll actually understand how your wrong and accept it. The up coming changes to the Guardian class will only have a marginal effect on the class. We will still be the lowest DPS class, still have roughly equal survivability and still be the lowest TPS fighter of all.

Now, the mitigation change, that will have an impact on who will be main tain and who won't. After the mitigation change Paladins will be the Main Tank of choice for almost all raids. Guardian mitigation will be a bit higher but based on the curve will only be a 2-3% reduction in damage and the Paladin 10% damage reduction far exceeds this, not even counting the 10% heal and regening self ward. Paladins will have a noticable Main Tank survivability edge and then all the SK's can betry to Paladins.

I do expect a population shift in the crusader ranks when that change happens. it will take a couple of months but it will happen.

Right now, SK's are so overpowered it's crazy. Tomorrow it will be the Paladin.

[Bruener]

Wasuna wrote:

Breuner,

Your perspective is completely out of whack of just about everybody else in the Fighter forums. Even your Raid MT has come here and demonstrated that the Guardian at the highest end of raid tanking has equal survivability to all others. How does that make the Guardian the defacto main tank?

Again, your wrong and someday you'll either leave the game still being wrong or you'll actually understand how your wrong and accept it. The up coming changes to the Guardian class will only have a marginal effect on the class. We will still be the lowest DPS class, still have roughly equal survivability and still be the lowest TPS fighter of all.

Now, the mitigation change, that will have an impact on who will be main tain and who won't. After the mitigation change Paladins will be the Main Tank of choice for almost all raids. Guardian mitigation will be a bit higher but based on the curve will only be a 2-3% reduction in damage and the Paladin 10% damage reduction far exceeds this, not even counting the 10% heal and regening self ward. Paladins will have a noticable Main Tank survivability edge and then all the SK's can betry to Paladins.

I do expect a population shift in the crusader ranks when that change happens. it will take a couple of months but it will happen.

Right now, SK's are so overpowered it's crazy. Tomorrow it will be the Paladin.

As I have pointed out to you before since you obviously seem to be confusing me with somebody else...please point out all these statements supposedly from our Guard MT.  Either I completely missed everything that you are deluding yourself that was posted, or more likely you have no clue what you are talking about (imagine that) and you are completely making up junk.  If I was a betting man I know where my money would be.

After the mitigation change raids will be doing it the hard way if they use anything other than a Guard, or Zerker.  Guard for the very reason their mitigation reach higher levels and more importantly they have a huge advantage by being able to block a ton of damage.  Zerkers for the simple reason that following the trail of a Warrior they have temp mit buffs to help close the gap AND the mitigation has no change at all on their primary survival ability, Adrenaline.

You are not going to see the huge population shift you are deluding yourself about simply because SK still rock at what they are designed for...an offensive OT.  You will see a shift in the MT spot of those that currently use SKs, well simply because it was a dumb choice when other tanks out there can do the same job but take significantly less damage....Guard/Pal/Zerker...heck our Bruiser for HM fights takes a ton less damage than a SK would simply because their avoidance difference is huge...something like 15% and mitigation reaching a 3-5% less and more importantly stoneskins and permanent damage reductions.  Of course we all know Brawlers are getting hit the hardest with the mit correction.

The only way you will see a huge population shift out of SKs is if they are nerfed back to RoK status in their tank ranking.  Something that should never happen.  So let me try and make you understand this.  Tanks completely balanced across the board why would you think people would leave the SK class?  Or is your real goal here to make sure SKs get nerfed into being a sub-par tank so that you see the numbers shift?

[Wasuna]

No. I'm not the one diluding myself. Your the one that seems to think that all shadow knights should be doing exactly what your doing. The facts, as shows in the High End Raid parses, are that most of the high end raid forces have SK MT's. I'm not sure how you missed that unless you just didn't want to see it.

Again, your wrong. Just becasue your a good OT doesn't mean anything other than that is what you choose to do. The facts are that more raids use SK's as MT than any other class and the SK is the highest population class in the game by a very wide margin.

I'm still not sure how you can even begin to dispute the conclusions that these facts demonstrate.

[Bruener]

Wasuna wrote:

No. I'm not the one diluding myself. Your the one that seems to think that all shadow knights should be doing exactly what your doing. The facts, as shows in the High End Raid parses, are that most of the high end raid forces have SK MT's. I'm not sure how you missed that unless you just didn't want to see it.

Again, your wrong. Just becasue your a good OT doesn't mean anything other than that is what you choose to do. The facts are that more raids use SK's as MT than any other class and the SK is the highest population class in the game by a very wide margin.

I'm still not sure how you can even begin to dispute the conclusions that these facts demonstrate.

Sounds like a lot of BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH,

Followed up with plenty of QQ, QQ, QQ...

Go learn to play your class with the recent changes pls.

[KinMorbidreamer]

With the new changes its true guards are more OP than any other class at pure tanking. Its true that so many feel guards are "entitled" to be OP simply because thats how eq1 had it so to hell with balance in eq2.

But man, Bruener I don't think I've ever seen you get mad like you are now. The QQrusade led by the vocal minority has won out, but they haven't nerfed us at least.. not yet. (Not anymore than taking away our agro lock because the guards cried it was OP, but when they get TWO of them its not enough.. but I digress) But seriously man, let them have their moment in the sun, let them believe it will make their class the only class in the game (because its clearly [Removed for Content] they want) because it still won't change the fact that no one plays guardians because they are boring. Sks, pal, zerk are all fun to play and do their job well enough, which is why there was always many MANY more of these 3 classes than there were guardians, not just since TSO.

I simply cannot wait for TOR myself, so I can finally get a better game not so infested with the idiocy this game has become loaded with due to the constant crying of certain classes believing they need everything to do a job that they never lost in the first place. Though I'm sure there will be plenty of QQ from Troopers crying about Jedi Knight's tanking abilities there as well... Just seems like crybabies gravitate towards "warrior" classes. It was that way in eq1, WoW, eq2, why not everything else too? heh

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

Bruener wrote:

Bruener wrote:

...when the content is completely designed around you and you are given OP'd status to the extreme...much like RoK.

Rise of Kunark was released in November 2007, but the first guardian mythical was not even discovered until February of the following year.  Then the first of the Guardian nerfs happened in July, before all of the servers had even discovered the weapon yet.  And the final Reversal nerf happened 4 months after that.  Bruener, you bray daily about ROK ROK ROK, but exactly how many Guardians worldwide actually touched this supposed overpowering?  5 per server?  10 maybe?  And for how long?  The fact is, being a supposedly OP guardian for those few days between February and July of 2008 required the combination of an AA line and a specific piece of gear acquired deep in the most difficult raid dungeon in the entire game, both of which were subsequently obliterated with nerfs.  Meanwhile, EVERY crusader that has popped out of the character creation screen since almost two years ago has been overpowered from the ground up, simply by virtue of class and the abilities bestowed on the class, not dependent on an ultra-rare (at the time) weapon.

So please, remind us again how unfair "ROK" was compared to the still-ongoing Shadowknight Oddysey, and how many total handfuls of players were actually affected out of 100,000+

[Nakash]

This thread once again proves that the SK is the one and only true AE tank.

"Bruener is offtanking a bunch off stupid warriors for months now, they won't die because they are the most defensive freaks in game...but he is doing good dps"

No wonder the rest of us is sick of debbating with you guys, you will not stop until you have it back like it was before.

But it will not be like before. Deal with it.

edit : fixed spelling

[KinMorbidreamer]

Azzaroth@Valor wrote:

This thread once again proves that the SK is the one and only true AE tank.

"Bruener is offtanking a bunch off stupid warriors for month now, they won't die because they are the most defensive freaks in game...but he is doing good dps"

No wonder the rest of us is sick of debbating with you guys, you will not stop until you have it back like it was before.

But it will not be like before. Deal with it.

A month? Been way longer than that, I'm afraid, lol.

I chime in every now and again to draw some agro off him, but I can only take their collective stupidity for so long before I /facepalm and leave the forums for another 2 or 3 weeks ><

[Rahatmattata]

It's cute how the same handful of crusaders try to convince the rest of the population they are fine and balanced. You have every other tank class, healers, dps classes, and even other crusaders saying they are OP.. but there is still a few crusaders that post every day about how fighter balance is better than it has ever been before. Keep thinking whatever helps you sleep at night, cuz ultimately your opinion means nothing and you have no influence in game development/balance.

[Nakash]

Rahatmattata wrote:

It's cute how the same handful of crusaders try to ...

As i already said the rest seems to be already sick of you and youre kind.And btw your opinion means as much nothing as my.

And dont forget. What ever gets patched... It will never be for you like before

[Shareana]

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5415959 Insults are not necessary. If you feel the need to have a discussion with a single poster, perhaps the PM system is better.

[Wasuna]

You all need to go read some books about how the USSR negotiated the split of Berlin and how the North Koreans nogetiated the truce talks after the fighting was done in that war.

They'd negotiate and when things didn't go their way they'd change the negotation team and start over. They'd claim they lost memo's and didn't get phone calls. They'd complain that people acorss the table were not being fair and get them kicked off the team and then start over again.

In the end, facts are presented and if you choose to not acknowledge them then there is no more discussion. Not becasue the facts are fauly but becasue the desires of the people across the table are faulty.

[KinMorbidreamer]

Wasuna wrote:

You all need to go read some books about how the USSR negotiated the split of Berlin and how the North Koreans nogetiated the truce talks after the fighting was done in that war.

They'd negotiate and when things didn't go their way they'd change the negotation team and start over. They'd claim they lost memo's and didn't get phone calls. They'd complain that people acorss the table were not being fair and get them kicked off the team and then start over again.

In the end, facts are presented and if you choose to not acknowledge them then there is no more discussion. Not becasue the facts are fauly but becasue the desires of the people across the table are faulty.

I see what you're saying here and I totally agree. Seeing how what you're implying can be just as easily applied to you as well as us.

I think its great guardians finally got brought up to par, but here's a little lesson in common sense: In a group of 4 if 3 guys are ok, and 1 is not, does the problem lie with the 3 or the 1? Since I don't trust you to accurately interpret anything let me spell it out for you: Zerk/pal/SK are FINE and it was YOUR class that needed help. You got your help and are now up to par, congratulations, but requesting the other 3 get knocked down and yourself get boosted MORE is just asinine as it simply recreates the problem only with the spectrum shifted to favor the 1 instead of the many.

tl;dr - You're fine now, get over it, all plate tanks can do their job pretty flawlessly, balance is great do not try to ruin it with further QQ and BLAH BLAH, and I am not bitter you got your fix but am bitter that you STILL give us grief even though you are just as "OP" as everyone else now.

(guess that wasn't much of a tl;dr but whatever).

[Shareana]

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5416162 There is no need for insults. A discussion can be done without them.

[KinMorbidreamer]

Since you seem to be so deluded and content in your own little reality, allow me to clear up some of your less than intelligent assumptions for you so you may get to know me a little better before you just go off another hissy baby fit.

I don't play my SK anymore either. Strike 1.

So having 2 aoe agro locks makes guardians underpowered even though when crusaders had their 1 it was omg OP? I would normally refuse to believe anyone could be so two-faced but you prove me wrong in this, I give you that. Strike 2

I really.. really.. do NOT wanna have to go digging through post history, but I've seen you around and all you do is cry, complain, and moan about crap and fling mud at everyone who doesn't agree with you (especially about SK aoe parses on *trash* mobs, lol) Strike 3.

Showing how much you actually know (or rather do not know as is most often the case concerning you) is a mistake.  I'd suggest you stop making stupid assumptions and flinging your hogwash around while toting it as fact, but that will never happen either. You simply have your head far too stuck up your own behind to ever see anything other than what you want to see. I have played multiple tank classes as well (would be another strike but you're already out, [Removed for Content]) one of them being a bruiser so do not give me crap about how I don't know what its like to play an underpowered tank. The only idiot here is you, as it always is when you get your overzealous ego thrust into anything and its truly a sad sad thing that you do not see it.

And for the record, main is a necro now with a paladin as my favorite "side character" so I still tank plenty just fyi. (I believe that'd be a 5th, but hey, who's counting?)

Now, I guess I'll sit here and await you to come back quoting me and inserting your "facts" where applicable, call me names, make more ignorant assumptions, and then awaiting another retort but you are beneath me, idiot, and I will waste no more time on you. Not in this thread and not on this topic, so expect no more fuel to your nerd rage to come from me... unless you wanna get angry when I pick apart some other qqrusader's post, but whatever.

*edited because quoting troll posts is apparently almost as bad as the one who got his troll post quoted*

[urgthock]

Anyone who thinks that BOTH crusaders (although Shadowknights even more so) are not overpowered are deluding themselves, incredibly obtuse or disingenuous. Crusaders are able to retain nearly full survivability while maintaining full DPS and TPS. The "tradeoff" is nonexistant. Whereas for both brawlers, any increase in DPS and TPS is accompanied by a ridiculous trade off in survivability, and for guardians, they don't seem to be able to even reach the level of DPS or TPS that other tanks can, no matter how much they castrate their defense. That is why Crusaders are overpowered. They have to sacrifice nothing and merely hit any one of their numerous "I Win" buttons to succeed at anything and everything, whether it be tanking, DPSing or whatever.

I find it truly pathetic that some of you have so much emotional investment in your characters that you will go to any lengths whatsoever to deny that Crusaders are overpowered no matter how much proof is thrown in your faces, for fear that your beloved character might actually have some of their power reduced. I understand the human nature behind it, but it's still pathetic. It seems like all some of you can do is repeat the mantra "Nothing to see here, move along, we are just fine and fighter balance is just fine. Move along, move along, move along."

[Rahatmattata]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Since you seem to be so deluded and content in your own little reality, allow me to clear up some of your less than intelligent assumptions for you so you may get to know me a little better before you just go off another hissy baby fit.

I don't play my SK anymore either. Strike 1.

So having 2 aoe agro locks makes guardians underpowered even though when crusaders had their 1 it was omg OP? I would normally refuse to believe anyone could be so two-faced but you prove me wrong in this, I give you that. Strike 2

I really.. really.. do NOT wanna have to go digging through post history, but I've seen you around and all you do is cry, complain, and moan about crap and fling mud at everyone who doesn't agree with you (especially about SK aoe parses on *trash* mobs, lol) Strike 3.

Showing how much you actually know (or rather do not know as is most often the case concerning you) is a mistake.  I'd suggest you stop making stupid assumptions and flinging your hogwash around while toting it as fact, but that will never happen either. You simply have your head far too stuck up your own behind to ever see anything other than what you want to see. I have played multiple tank classes as well (would be another strike but you're already out, [Removed for Content]) one of them being a bruiser so do not give me crap about how I don't know what its like to play an underpowered tank. The only idiot here is you, as it always is when you get your overzealous ego thrust into anything and its truly a sad sad thing that you do not see it.

And for the record, main is a necro now with a paladin as my favorite "side character" so I still tank plenty just fyi. (I believe that'd be a 5th, but hey, who's counting?)

Now, I guess I'll sit here and await you to come back quoting me and inserting your "facts" where applicable, call me names, make more ignorant assumptions, and then awaiting another retort but you are beneath me, idiot, and I will waste no more time on you. Not in this thread and not on this topic, so expect no more fuel to your nerd rage to come from me... unless you wanna get angry when I pick apart some other qqrusader's post, but whatever.

I love how you did nothing to address the points I made about crusaders being OP. Your hissy fit child rage does nothing to disprove my points. I could care less that shadowknights do dps, my problem has always been the amount of dps they do compared to their survivability. That is what makes them OP. You can claim whatever you want, but unless you want to dig up some posts to support your claim, you're just blowing smoke out of your butt hole.

Strike 1.

BTW, if by "guardians have 2 aoe aggro locks" you meant to say, "1 short duration aoe target lock that doesn't work on a lot of mobs," then you are right. And no that doesn't make them OP. Guess what, mobs aren't immune to crusader dps and grave sacrement.

Strike 2.

Reinforcement is the other "aoe aggro lock" I would have to assume you are talking about, except it's not an aggro lock it's an increase of 1 hate position every time you hit the mob. Guards have 1 aoe that hits a max of 8 targets.

Strike 3. [Removed for Content].

LOL @ guards are OP. You're just being silly now. Either that or you must have huffed a lot of gasoline as a pubecent teen. Feel free to not post again since you're obviously a nobody that has no clue how eq2 game mechanics workd. Idiot.

[Wasuna]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

I see what you're saying here and I totally agree. Seeing how what you're implying can be just as easily applied to you as well as us.

I think its great guardians finally got brought up to par, but here's a little lesson in common sense: In a group of 4 if 3 guys are ok, and 1 is not, does the problem lie with the 3 or the 1? Since I don't trust you to accurately interpret anything let me spell it out for you: Zerk/pal/SK are FINE and it was YOUR class that needed help. You got your help and are now up to par, congratulations, but requesting the other 3 get knocked down and yourself get boosted MORE is just asinine as it simply recreates the problem only with the spectrum shifted to favor the 1 instead of the many.

tl;dr - You're fine now, get over it, all plate tanks can do their job pretty flawlessly, balance is great do not try to ruin it with further QQ and BLAH BLAH, and I am not bitter you got your fix but am bitter that you STILL give us grief even though you are just as "OP" as everyone else now.

(guess that wasn't much of a tl;dr but whatever).

Two Points:

1. I haven't changed what iIsaid at all through this whole thread so the example does not apply to me. The only thing that can be disputed is if my 'facts' are actually facts but you run the risk of exposing your entire class if you try to dispute those. Please feel free to try. Breuner knows this which is why he flops around from topic to topic every time he tries to dispute these items. Your support of his flopping is a bit off-putting to me by the way.

2. Please review your defination of 'OK'. If 3 out of a group of 4 classes can do more solo that has every been allowed in the game... ever and one of them is in line with all previous expetations of a class for the last 5 years.. then who is OK and who is NOT OK? I hope the fix of the mitigation BUG will bring this back into line. And, it is a bug, never ever before have all fighters been able to reach the mitigation cap with such ease. My legendary geared Guardian is sitting at 71% mitigation in offensive and two swords. That's just wrong.. I should be around 65% or with my temporary buffs pushing me to ~70%.

[KinMorbidreamer]

Rahatmattata wrote:

RAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEE!!!!!!

@ Wasuna

First off, I'd like to thank you for not being a blithering idiot.

On to business: I agree that soloing on a low dps class is the pits (I levelled a defiler solo more or less, ugh, would not recommend it, heh)

1. If you are nothing else, at least you are consistent, I give you that much (in this thread at least.. don't really see you as much as some of the more "vocal"... people.. in here). While, I do concede that I do not play on every server and do not know much of what goes on on any other server other than my own, I do know that top raids guilds here never stopped using guardian MTs regardless of the supposed "OP" status of crusaders and I do know of a guild on najena that never stopped using a guard MT either (tidbit: this guard MT on najena has said he is fine and all the complainers dunno [Removed for Content] they're doin, I might add). As for Bruener.. well.. i don't really know the guy, and only halfway pay attention to what he says tbh, heh, but he and I obviously see eye to eye on some things or I wouldn't be debating with you right now... but I haven't flopped yet, have I?

2. Thing is: times change. its an mmo, things change all the time and the previous expectation of the guardian class for the last 5 years was "The Tank that no one should touch" and that in itself  is counter-intuitive to balance overall. Sks have always been soloing gods, so that hasn't really changed much at all. Paladins are painful to solo with til they get some gear, and I never have played a zerker but my wife is having a blast with hers so I guess they're ok too. But enough with soloing.. soloing doesnt get you loot, heh.

I do agree that 70% mitigation should not be easily attainable but legendary gear or no, if I gear my paladin up in full +mit jewelry and some armor pieces (bp/legs) I do fully expect to get close, and I do not think this is too out of this world to ask seeing how much dps potential gets thrown away in order to get his mitigation to that point. I have NO, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, problem with guard having his "niche" as the guy with the highest raw mit, but to expect to be completely untouchable and corner the market on the raid MT spot is a little much. This ain't the eq1 dark ages, times change and eq2 was to be more about overall balance (even though it didn't turn out that way in the beginning.. but it IS better now, whether you want to admit it or not, the degree to which you agree with that is up to your own opinion, however)

I'd go on, but I fear I'd just be rambling, so thank you again for not being a [Removed for Content] and lets keep it civil

[KinMorbidreamer]

urgthock wrote:

Anyone who thinks that BOTH crusaders (although Shadowknights even more so) are not overpowered are deluding themselves, incredibly obtuse or disingenuous. Crusaders are able to retain nearly full survivability while maintaining full DPS and TPS. The "tradeoff" is nonexistant. Whereas for both brawlers, any increase in DPS and TPS is accompanied by a ridiculous trade off in survivability, and for guardians, they don't seem to be able to even reach the level of DPS or TPS that other tanks can, no matter how much they castrate their defense. That is why Crusaders are overpowered. They have to sacrifice nothing and merely hit any one of their numerous "I Win" buttons to succeed at anything and everything, whether it be tanking, DPSing or whatever.

I find it truly pathetic that some of you have so much emotional investment in your characters that you will go to any lengths whatsoever to deny that Crusaders are overpowered no matter how much proof is thrown in your faces, for fear that your beloved character might actually have some of their power reduced. I understand the human nature behind it, but it's still pathetic. It seems like all some of you can do is repeat the mantra "Nothing to see here, move along, we are just fine and fighter balance is just fine. Move along, move along, move along."

Not really gonna devote a ton of brain power to reply to this as it obviously didn't take a lot of brain power to type it, but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

I agree, brawlers are in dire need of some lovin to get up to par at tanking, having tried to play one myself, so no argument there. As for guardians... all I have to say is read the other posts that took more thought and at least miniscule effort to type out as I don't really feel like repeating everything said in those already.

And finally, I would LOVE to know where this spammable "I Win" button on either my pal or Sk is, so please lemme know when you find it

[urgthock]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Not really gonna devote a ton of brain power to reply to this as it obviously didn't take a lot of brain power to type it, but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

I agree, brawlers are in dire need of some lovin to get up to par at tanking, having tried to play one myself, so no argument there. As for guardians... all I have to say is read the other posts that took more thought and at least miniscule effort to type out as I don't really feel like repeating everything said in those already.

And finally, I would LOVE to know where this spammable "I Win" button on either my pal or Sk is, so please lemme know when you find it

I find it rather humerous that whenever you appear to be unable to adequately respond to anyones points, your fallback position is to insult their intelligence.

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

 I chime in every now and again to draw some agro off him, but I can only take their collective stupidity for so long before I /facepalm and leave the forums for another 2 or 3 weeks ><

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

owait, thats what the whole qqrusade was all about. Well, you got your way so be silent, l2p, and most importantly, leave us the hell alone. But if I recall correctly, you're the idiot who bawws and bawws over parses. Well, you picked a defensive tank, you get no dps, deal with it or betray/reroll, [Removed for Content].

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Since you seem to be so deluded and content in your own little reality, allow me to clear up some of your less than intelligent assumptions for you so you may get to know me a little better before you just go off another hissy baby fit.

Showing how much you actually know (or rather do not know as is most often the case concerning you) is a mistake.  I'd suggest you stop making stupid assumptions and flinging your hogwash around while toting it as fact, but that will never happen either. You simply have your head far too stuck up your own behind to ever see anything other than what you want to see. I have played multiple tank classes as well (would be another strike but you're already out, [Removed for Content]) one of them being a bruiser so do not give me crap about how I don't know what its like to play an underpowered tank. The only idiot here is you, as it always is when you get your overzealous ego thrust into anything and its truly a sad sad thing that you do not see it.

Now, I guess I'll sit here and await you to come back quoting me and inserting your "facts" where applicable, call me names, make more ignorant assumptions, and then awaiting another retort but you are beneath me, idiot, and I will waste no more time on you.

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Not really gonna devote a ton of brain power to reply to this as it obviously didn't take a lot of brain power to type it, but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

I agree, brawlers are in dire need of some lovin to get up to par at tanking, having tried to play one myself, so no argument there. As for guardians... all I have to say is read the other posts that took more thought and at least miniscule effort to type out as I don't really feel like repeating everything said in those already.

And if you think the following quote is what I was referring to, you obviously don't know that much about Shadowknights and I wonder why you are even bothering to try to involve yourself in the conversation with those that appear to know quite a bit more than you on the subject.

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

And as to the following:

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

And finally, I would LOVE to know where this spammable "I Win" button on either my pal or Sk is, so please lemme know when you find it

If you haven't found them by now, you obviously are not a very skilled Shadowknight player.

[KinMorbidreamer]

urgthock wrote:

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Not really gonna devote a ton of brain power to reply to this as it obviously didn't take a lot of brain power to type it, but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

I agree, brawlers are in dire need of some lovin to get up to par at tanking, having tried to play one myself, so no argument there. As for guardians... all I have to say is read the other posts that took more thought and at least miniscule effort to type out as I don't really feel like repeating everything said in those already.

And finally, I would LOVE to know where this spammable "I Win" button on either my pal or Sk is, so please lemme know when you find it

I find it rather humerous that whenever you appear to be unable to adequately respond to anyones points, your fallback position is to insult their intelligence.

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

 I chime in every now and again to draw some agro off him, but I can only take their collective stupidity for so long before I /facepalm and leave the forums for another 2 or 3 weeks ><

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

owait, thats what the whole qqrusade was all about. Well, you got your way so be silent, l2p, and most importantly, leave us the hell alone. But if I recall correctly, you're the idiot who bawws and bawws over parses. Well, you picked a defensive tank, you get no dps, deal with it or betray/reroll, [Removed for Content].

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Since you seem to be so deluded and content in your own little reality, allow me to clear up some of your less than intelligent assumptions for you so you may get to know me a little better before you just go off another hissy baby fit.

Showing how much you actually know (or rather do not know as is most often the case concerning you) is a mistake.  I'd suggest you stop making stupid assumptions and flinging your hogwash around while toting it as fact, but that will never happen either. You simply have your head far too stuck up your own behind to ever see anything other than what you want to see. I have played multiple tank classes as well (would be another strike but you're already out, [Removed for Content]) one of them being a bruiser so do not give me crap about how I don't know what its like to play an underpowered tank. The only idiot here is you, as it always is when you get your overzealous ego thrust into anything and its truly a sad sad thing that you do not see it.

Now, I guess I'll sit here and await you to come back quoting me and inserting your "facts" where applicable, call me names, make more ignorant assumptions, and then awaiting another retort but you are beneath me, idiot, and I will waste no more time on you.

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

Not really gonna devote a ton of brain power to reply to this as it obviously didn't take a lot of brain power to type it, but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

I agree, brawlers are in dire need of some lovin to get up to par at tanking, having tried to play one myself, so no argument there. As for guardians... all I have to say is read the other posts that took more thought and at least miniscule effort to type out as I don't really feel like repeating everything said in those already.

And if you think the following quote is what I was referring to, you obviously don't know that much about Shadowknights and I wonder why you are even bothering to try to involve yourself in the conversation with those that appear to know quite a bit more than you on the subject.

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

but we crusaders have to put on dps gear just like everyone else to do any meaningful dps and trash mob parses mean jack all, so the aoe spam is really not an issue worth debating.

And as to the following:

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

And finally, I would LOVE to know where this spammable "I Win" button on either my pal or Sk is, so please lemme know when you find it

If you haven't found them by now, you obviously are not a very skilled Shadowknight player.

Yeah, I called a lot of people idiotic, and from the responses I got, I can see it was clearly justified. When Wasuna made a civil comment, I replied in a civil manner. As for Rahat.. the only way to defeat a troll is to just ignore them. It wasn't because I had "no adequate response" to what was being said like you say.

Yeah, ok, I took your post as being mindless drivel because all it said was the same tired old crap that all the other posts from [Removed for Content] guardians have spewed over the last year, hell, for all I know you just copy/pasted it.

So to you, I pose the same question: Is it because you have no adequate response to my statement that you go about questioning my intelligence?

[urgthock]

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

So to you, I pose the same question: Is it because you have no adequate response to my statement that you go about questioning my intelligence?

I never questioned your intelligence; merely your knowledge.

[KinMorbidreamer]

urgthock wrote:

Iadenie@Permafrost wrote:

So to you, I pose the same question: Is it because you have no adequate response to my statement that you go about questioning my intelligence?

I never questioned your intelligence; merely your knowledge.

Ok then, I ask you this.. to test your own knowledge. What are these "I Win" buttons?

I know which buttons are "strong" such as holy ground/grave sacrament, but these are far from spammable buttons that just scream "I Win" like you claim, so please enlighten me since you seem to know more about a class I've played off and on since eq2 launch.

And regarding pvp... oh please, leave pvp out of it. EQ2 is a pve game and to suggest that it is otherwise is just /facepalm- worthy

edit: typo, heh

[Shareana]

OK, this has turned into a Bickering fest and will be shut down.  I have tried to clean it up, but over half the posts that are arguments would be removed.

Discussion and debate are welcome on these forums.  Insults and bickering is not.