scout grounds is painfully unbalanced

dlove1 · 08-05-2010, 01:03 AM

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?

I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?

typical SOE retardedness.

Xiotia · 08-05-2010, 02:05 AM

dlove183 wrote:

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?
I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?
typical SOE retardedness.

Some of the toughest toons to kill in t4 battlegrounds are mages. I hear its the same at 90 if the mage is equiped better. I don't play 90 level Battlegrounds because my mage dies instantly, but its because my gear sucks. Try t4 you might like it. SMILEY

Taldier · 08-05-2010, 03:28 AM

dlove183 wrote:

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?
I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?
typical SOE retardedness.

This post is laughable. A warlock? Seriously?

I've fought against good warlocks 1v1 for 10-15 min with them absorbing or healing all of my damage. And I can take on 2-3 scouts at a time, they wont hit a decently specced sorc for much more damage than they hit me. And runspeed buffs? Buy some totems like everyone else.

Do you have any toughness at all? Do you have any ward or stoneskin gear at all? Are you specced for pvp at all? lol.

Anyone of any class (but sorcs in particular) dying too fast to anyone of any other class at the moment is either simply failing at the game or hopelessly outmatched in gear.

Beef_Supre · 08-05-2010, 07:40 AM

Xitocia and Taldier gave you the same answer, but Xi's was the friendly wording.

Mages *are* one of the better Battlegrounds classes, especially Warlocks. With so many able to mitigate and avoid damage, the AoE's are a strong way to hurt others ... and with the right AA's and Gear, Mages take a month and a half to kill.

Scouts aren't particularly favored in Battlegrounds at the moment, and while the good ones shine brightly, the Archtypes are fairly balanced and do the job they are intended for. Certain classes (conjurors, guardians, maybe) could complain they aren't dominant in BG's.. but even they do an intended job very well in a group (yes, those matter!).

Give it some time, build some gear for PvP, spec your aa's for it.. and try T4 (the more, the merrier!). You might really like it.

max.power · 08-05-2010, 08:10 AM

dlove183 wrote:

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?
I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?
typical SOE retardedness.

Bold part: That's the problem, EVERY class trying BGs for the first time gets killed without knowing where it came from.

Get better gear (toughness, crit mit), get a better AA setup. Wizards/warlocks are scout killers.

Wigg · 08-05-2010, 11:10 AM

dlove183 wrote:

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?
I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?
typical SOE retardedness.

Ok, Judging by the fact you are saying you "decided to try battle grounds" combined with the fact that I looked through past post to find the character in question and saw your gear and determined you do not raid whatsoever. Those 2 things being said, you need to start at a lower tier than T9 BGs. You will not have the equipment to stand up to some of the higher dps BY FAR, and will not even dent some of the people with the gear you have. I have a lock at level 89 for BGs that I have a blast on, and honestly IMO that lock is one of the top terror's for that level range. One of the others thats probably above me for 1 on 1 terror is a wizzy. We smoke almost every scout without question or issue. In fact, I can go middle on a smugglers, and hit an absolution + rift and kill an entire group. You just need to gear yourself up before trying that tier BGs.

EDIT:

I just took a look at your alts and this is what I suggested you do. Get on your 80 wizzy, get a "pvp" AA spec on him, and try some level 80 BGs getting some gear there first. I would recommend at least buying chest and legs if you are going to stay in that area of BGs.

Yimway · 08-05-2010, 12:42 PM

Taldier@Venekor wrote:

Anyone of any class (but sorcs in particular) dying too fast to anyone of any other class at the moment is either simply failing at the game or hopelessly outmatched in gear.

I have to agree, as BG's have matured, its becoming all about the gear.

I'm playing an assasin and ranger in T8 I just leveled up on raf accounts that have no gear what-so-ever.

I can put out dps to kill people, but I've got to be quick and use stealth and opportunity, cause they can kill me 5x as fast as I can kill them. Its just about not giving them the target/opportunity to do so.

It's a fun game still, but its clear being grossly outmatched in gear is going to up the difficulty drastically.

I find even without any gear, I'm still in the top 4 on kills for my team in Den, so I figure I'm not failing at the game, just outmatched in gear. =)

dlove1 · 08-05-2010, 01:10 PM

determined you do not raid whatsoever

I raid plenty. I just came back to the game a few weeks ago. I've cleared most of the HM content. I don't raid on my warlock. I raid with an illy. I rolled the lock when I came back to the game. he is pretty new with only 199AA. I tried BG with the raid geared illy. he is mostly t1 with a few good pieces and a few leftovers from tso. you may as well paint yourself orange and change your last name to "huntme". I think people were making targeting macros for the illy. I would spawn and try to find someone to buff. people would run away from the fight before I even got buffed to wtfpwn me in 1 hit. 90% of bg on the illy was watching the respawn window. raid gear seems pretty worthless for BG.

I forgot about the existance of sorc specs other than dps specs. I guess when spells that are supposed to hit for 60k are hitting for 4k, dps doesn't really matter. looking through act, the hardest hit I can find for my lock is 4850. I see scouts hitting 10k+.

this is my impression of BG from the standpoint of someone that has never done it. I've played probably 60-80 matches. it seems to be 98% about the team you draw. I've been in a few where my side had no healer and the other side had a shaman, a druid, and a pally. I'm still a long way from having enough tokens to buy my first piece of BG gear. I have about 60 gear tokens, 25 rums, and 12 or so of the ones from the ctf map.

it sucks when a ranger is running for your flag, you get a target on him, wait for your spells to light up, start casting, and he is out of range before the spell goes off.

dlove1 · 08-05-2010, 01:26 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Taldier@Venekor wrote:
Anyone of any class (but sorcs in particular) dying too fast to anyone of any other class at the moment is either simply failing at the game or hopelessly outmatched in gear.
I have to agree, as BG's have matured, its becoming all about the gear.
I'm playing an assasin and ranger in T8 I just leveled up on raf accounts that have no gear what-so-ever.
I can put out dps to kill people, but I've got to be quick and use stealth and opportunity, cause they can kill me 5x as fast as I can kill them. Its just about not giving them the target/opportunity to do so.
It's a fun game still, but its clear being grossly outmatched in gear is going to up the difficulty drastically.
I find even without any gear, I'm still in the top 4 on kills for my team in Den, so I figure I'm not failing at the game, just outmatched in gear. =)

this makes me LOL.

so, assassins are NOT op at all. is just that you are really awesome at playing your RAF pl'ed assassin/ranger that has 0 gear. that makes perfect sense.

Xiotia · 08-05-2010, 01:29 PM

dlove183 wrote:

determined you do not raid whatsoever
I raid plenty. I just came back to the game a few weeks ago. I've cleared most of the HM content. I don't raid on my warlock. I raid with an illy. I rolled the lock when I came back to the game. he is pretty new with only 199AA. I tried BG with the raid geared illy. he is mostly t1 with a few good pieces and a few leftovers from tso. you may as well paint yourself orange and change your last name to "huntme". I think people were making targeting macros for the illy. I would spawn and try to find someone to buff. people would run away from the fight before I even got buffed to wtfpwn me in 1 hit. 90% of bg on the illy was watching the respawn window. raid gear seems pretty worthless for BG.
I forgot about the existance of sorc specs other than dps specs. I guess when spells that are supposed to hit for 60k are hitting for 4k, dps doesn't really matter. looking through act, the hardest hit I can find for my lock is 4850. I see scouts hitting 10k+.
this is my impression of BG from the standpoint of someone that has never done it. I've played probably 60-80 matches. it seems to be 98% about the team you draw. I've been in a few where my side had no healer and the other side had a shaman, a druid, and a pally. I'm still a long way from having enough tokens to buy my first piece of BG gear. I have about 60 gear tokens, 25 rums, and 12 or so of the ones from the ctf map.
it sucks when a ranger is running for your flag, you get a target on him, wait for your spells to light up, start casting, and he is out of range before the spell goes off.

It does suck when you first start out in battlegrounds, but eventually you'll get the gear and the knack for pvp in BGs and it will be more fun. Just have to be patient and relaxed, 'cause if your not its just going to continue to be frustrating. Personally I hate being one shotted over and over again; hence the reason I do not play the t10 BG. I'll give level 90 a shot, occasionally, as I get a new piece for my mage. Eventually, I'll have all the bg gear and it might be more fun. If your not enjoying it in the tier you're playing in, try it on a different tier, or just play on your server (there are plenty of things to do in Everquest 2). Personally, we like seeing new faces in the t4 bgs, but starting out fresh there can be frustrating too.

Yimway · 08-05-2010, 01:38 PM

dlove183 wrote:

so, assassins are NOT op at all. is just that you are really awesome at playing your RAF pl'ed assassin/ranger that has 0 gear. that makes perfect sense.

If I don't have the opportunity advantage in the engagement, with my current gear, either predator is trivially killed. So yes, player skill impacts my success with the class. Having no gear, literally any class having the opportunity advantage on me can and likely will kill me.

My point was gear is as important as player skill, if not more so.

I actually find winning the opportunity advantage on the assassin fairly difficult, but I've only been trying for a few days.

Once he has the gear not to fall down in die a few seconds after being targeted, he may very well be grossly overpowered.

My comments were specifically to the comment of skill vs gear.

On the inverse side, my previous 3 months in BG's was playing a guardian, and even being the most skilled and the best geared, that class was in a losing position. So yes, Skill + Gear +/- ClassBalance. How is this different from any other pvp mmo?

Trenal · 08-05-2010, 02:23 PM

dlove183 wrote:

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?
I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?
typical SOE retardedness.

I have no problem killing most scouts on my warlock in T9. Most of the time Im on the top of the DPS listing at the end, especially in Gears. Now, when you say your rift hit for only 2500, thats prob from lack of potency and maybe crit chance and crit damage... but you also have to remeber your hitting everything around you with rift. So if there is a whole team of people around you, thats 2500X6.

Also, yes you are going to get 1 shotted a lot if you have no PvP gear, or toughness. Thats just the way it is. I died a LOT when I first started BG's, which was when I hit 90. What I did was respect my AA trees to survive.. did little damage, but I survived pretty decent. Now I am back to all DPS. I die more then I should prob, but Im sure there are people out there who cuss me out all the time when they see "Trenal has killed you" hehe.

Taldier · 08-05-2010, 02:40 PM

dlove183 wrote:

determined you do not raid whatsoever
I raid plenty. I just came back to the game a few weeks ago. I've cleared most of the HM content. I don't raid on my warlock. I raid with an illy. I rolled the lock when I came back to the game. he is pretty new with only 199AA. I tried BG with the raid geared illy. he is mostly t1 with a few good pieces and a few leftovers from tso. you may as well paint yourself orange and change your last name to "huntme". I think people were making targeting macros for the illy. I would spawn and try to find someone to buff. people would run away from the fight before I even got buffed to wtfpwn me in 1 hit. 90% of bg on the illy was watching the respawn window. raid gear seems pretty worthless for BG.
In a large bg you probably wont get to put all your buffs up optimally every time you die. Most likely an enemy group is indeed target macroing an illy to get rid of the cc before they can kill anyone else. Your cc is more important than casting buffs. Your t1 raid armor is essentially worthless. Get gear with toughness on it, get jewlery with good procs. Unless you are going in with a premade group that has a healer and tank you know to be competant, survivability is your number 1 goal in getting gear and creating a spec.
I forgot about the existance of sorc specs other than dps specs. I guess when spells that are supposed to hit for 60k are hitting for 4k, dps doesn't really matter. looking through act, the hardest hit I can find for my lock is 4850. I see scouts hitting 10k+.
Going to talk very slowly just because this is about the 5000th time I've tried to explain this to someone. Scouts hit undergeared cloth wearing non-sorcerer mages very very hard. They hit people who actually have mitigation and damage reduction for almost nothing. Mages hit all classes with the same amount of damage all the time.
That 4k spell you are landing is already being mitigated at the cap of the resistance curve. The scout is hitting someone with 0 physical mitigation, 0 toughness, 0 damage redution, and 0 crit mit. This is the same amount of damage they would do hitting a target wearing no gear at all. I have little doubt that a mage would hit higher numbers on a target wearing no gear at all.
this is my impression of BG from the standpoint of someone that has never done it. I've played probably 60-80 matches. it seems to be 98% about the team you draw. I've been in a few where my side had no healer and the other side had a shaman, a druid, and a pally. I'm still a long way from having enough tokens to buy my first piece of BG gear. I have about 60 gear tokens, 25 rums, and 12 or so of the ones from the ctf map.
Yes, it is, one of several reasons why bg's are fail.
it sucks when a ranger is running for your flag, you get a target on him, wait for your spells to light up, start casting, and he is out of range before the spell goes off.
Running fast is not a class specific ability. Rangers are possibly one of the worst equipied classes for doing this.
And finally as I said before, I've seen absurdly long fights going on even between pure dps classes. With the amount of toughness reduction, crit mit, ward procs, stoneskin procs, heal procs, etc, currently in the game I find it humorous to see complaints about any class dying quickly to any other class.

Brook · 08-05-2010, 02:49 PM

I would suggest to the OP to give t4 bg's a try, I have played around in the other tiers but t4 so far has been the most fun.

I don't see any op classes in that tier, though brigs are the bane of my existence and I havent found a way yet to beat them yet.

You can tell the difference in someone who has taken the time to gear out for BG's and someone who hasn't and it doesn't take long. I watched a Wiz flatten two assassins while I was doing all I could on my coercer to take the wiz out and he almost managed to take me out as well, if a healer hadn't shown up he would have.

I think alot of it stems from people thinking that the other players are working on a script like the mobs do. Players will pull out any advantage they can think of to win, a mob cant think to change strategies when the player does something unexpected so you get into a routine of do this then that and this is the end result and it doesn't work that way in BG. You have to use debuffs to get things to land, you have to gear to survive, you have to plan two moves ahead of what you think the other player will attempt to do next and set yourself up to take advantage of it.

The hardest part of playing in a BG with random peeps is you are looking for them to do what their archetype is setup to do, in fact you rely on it, you expect the tank to keep the other players focused on him, the healer to heal, the dps to take down the target the tank has chosen, and crowd control to keep the other side from doing whatever they were trying to do.

It ain't gonna happen that way though, the scout, warden, pally or w/e is going to grab the flag and run around like an idiot while the dps is going to chase them down getting picked off one at a time by a focused group of three random folks who happen to all be on the same page. One of the tanks will be running around not knowing what the objective is while a random healer is standing off away from the crowd getting mezzed stunned debuffed and not able to cast while a ranger is making them look like a pincushion till they see the revive screen, not just once but twice in a row within 2 minutes. Fun time fun times SMILEY

It is definatly frustrating at times being in a robe at a party where everyone seems intent on seeing you get it dirty. But, depending on the frame of mind you go in there with its also pretty dam funny.

Dont blame the scouts because you didnt get what you were expecting, take what you have and work with it.

Xiotia · 08-05-2010, 03:45 PM

Brook wrote:

I would suggest to the OP to give t4 bg's a try, I have played around in the other tiers but t4 so far has been the most fun.
I don't see any op classes in that tier, though brigs are the bane of my existence and I havent found a way yet to beat them yet.
You can tell the difference in someone who has taken the time to gear out for BG's and someone who hasn't and it doesn't take long. I watched a Wiz flatten two assassins while I was doing all I could on my coercer to take the wiz out and he almost managed to take me out as well, if a healer hadn't shown up he would have.
I think alot of it stems from people thinking that the other players are working on a script like the mobs do. Players will pull out any advantage they can think of to win, a mob cant think to change strategies when the player does something unexpected so you get into a routine of do this then that and this is the end result and it doesn't work that way in BG. You have to use debuffs to get things to land, you have to gear to survive, you have to plan two moves ahead of what you think the other player will attempt to do next and set yourself up to take advantage of it.
The hardest part of playing in a BG with random peeps is you are looking for them to do what their archetype is setup to do, in fact you rely on it, you expect the tank to keep the other players focused on him, the healer to heal, the dps to take down the target the tank has chosen, and crowd control to keep the other side from doing whatever they were trying to do.
It ain't gonna happen that way though, the scout, warden, pally or w/e is going to grab the flag and run around like an idiot while the dps is going to chase them down getting picked off one at a time by a focused group of three random folks who happen to all be on the same page. One of the tanks will be running around not knowing what the objective is while a random healer is standing off away from the crowd getting mezzed stunned debuffed and not able to cast while a ranger is making them look like a pincushion till they see the revive screen, not just once but twice in a row within 2 minutes. Fun time fun times
It is definatly frustrating at times being in a robe at a party where everyone seems intent on seeing you get it dirty. But, depending on the frame of mind you go in there with its also pretty dam funny.
Dont blame the scouts because you didnt get what you were expecting, take what you have and work with it.

I actually find myself in a BG state of mind when fighting mobs. It sucks when you try to run behind a mob and they turn with you instead of standing there confused. lol

NardacMM · 08-05-2010, 04:29 PM

battlegrounds sucks until you get the knack of it. Yes, gear plays a huge role, but I have a friend who is saving every single token for level 90 gear and hasn't upgraded anything since he started. He started out with 2 or 3 kills and at the bottom of the damage parse and now he'll finish top 5 every time for total damage and top 3 or 4 for kills. Strategy is important.. especialy when you can AE.

Brugg · 08-06-2010, 01:38 AM

just got out of a ganak that was 6v5 in their favor and the SK out dps everyonex3. [Removed for Content] man they have beast heals, crit damage spells and plate armor. how is that a balanced class? ( yes I know ganak is 12v12 but it didnt fill out ) . I hope they are easier to kill after the NERF on their crit heal. SK is too OP if they can parse like that. ( over 600k ) in an level 80 BG. sorry just a vent. I dont believe that scouts are out of line because it takes real skill to play one. And they are vulnerable. SK is the biggest problem in BG. Noone should be able to do what they do.

dlove1 · 08-06-2010, 04:32 AM

it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them. maybe it takes skill to turn on auto bow attack with 100% crit and 100% da and run backwards. I'm just not sure. I tried using my ranged auto attack on my mages and it just doesn't seem to work. I do have 1 damage spell that I can cast while moving. it has a pretty long recast.

I haven't been 1 shotted by any SKs. also, they don't have heals at all only lifetaps. paladins seem 5x more powerful that SKs.

I tried something new. I am back on the illy mezzing and stunning everyone that comes in range. something that actually works well is finding a pally that will give me amends and giving him tc w/spellda, IA, AI, tandem, and haste. I stand by his foot and stun/mezz everything.

my illy is full dps spec with AE autoattack 100%da, capped on cast. even in full raid gear my ZW dps is less than 600. that seems to be a testament to how terrible resist rates are in BG. procs like malific fury are doing 13dps zw. torrent does 11.

Guld_Ulrish · 08-06-2010, 06:16 AM

dlove183 wrote:

is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me?
I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper?
typical SOE retardedness.

Even my bloody necro is a tank in t9, and warlocks are just lol cause their dmg reduction. I dont even attack warlocks cause there are no point.

YasikoSetsu · 08-06-2010, 07:52 AM

dlove183 wrote:

it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them.

Stopped reading there tbh.

If you're getting anywhere even remotely close to one shotted with the current mechanics in eq2, you fail at not only the game, but at life as well - good job.

Xiotia · 08-06-2010, 10:37 AM

normas wrote:

just got out of a ganak that was 6v5 in their favor and the SK out dps everyonex3. [Removed for Content] man they have beast heals, crit damage spells and plate armor. how is that a balanced class? ( yes I know ganak is 12v12 but it didnt fill out ) . I hope they are easier to kill after the NERF on their crit heal. SK is too OP if they can parse like that. ( over 600k ) in an level 80 BG. sorry just a vent. I dont believe that scouts are out of line because it takes real skill to play one. And they are vulnerable. SK is the biggest problem in BG. Noone should be able to do what they do.

They are incredibly difficult to kill sometimes, but I don't want them nerfed because they make incredible tanks and off tanks in instances. I mean Battlegrounds aside, would you not prefer they keep the shadowknight a good working class for regular game play? Besides, It still comes down to gear, spells, and AA. A maxed out shadowknight is difficult in BGs, but If they are just wearing the best gear and lack the aa and spells I can kill them.

Wigg · 08-06-2010, 11:56 AM

TBH, if your problem is being 1 shot.. put on MC gear till you get BG gear. At least you will live. Toughness= OP.

Wytie · 08-06-2010, 12:10 PM

As a warlock.

If you dont have any toughness you will not enjoy BG 1 bit.

If you have just about every piece of toughness like me, you lol everytime you tank full groups and not leave green. SMILEY

Brugg · 08-06-2010, 02:19 PM

Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:

normas wrote:
just got out of a ganak that was 6v5 in their favor and the SK out dps everyonex3. [Removed for Content] man they have beast heals, crit damage spells and plate armor. how is that a balanced class? ( yes I know ganak is 12v12 but it didnt fill out ) . I hope they are easier to kill after the NERF on their crit heal. SK is too OP if they can parse like that. ( over 600k ) in an level 80 BG. sorry just a vent. I dont believe that scouts are out of line because it takes real skill to play one. And they are vulnerable. SK is the biggest problem in BG. Noone should be able to do what they do.
They are incredibly difficult to kill sometimes, but I don't want them nerfed because they make incredible tanks and off tanks in instances. I mean Battlegrounds aside, would you not prefer they keep the shadowknight a good working class for regular game play? Besides, It still comes down to gear, spells, and AA. A maxed out shadowknight is difficult in BGs, but If they are just wearing the best gear and lack the aa and spells I can kill them.

I dont want them nerfed in pve. But in BG it is unacceptable that a SK does 600+k damage when the next highest was around 300k. And he was 3rd in the heals given stat. Everyone of his heals did crit and I just think its unfair that they dmage like a warlock, heal like a inquis and dps like a scout. totally unacceptable in pvp. They should make this change for pvp only as they did the mages damage. i wear full 80 BG gear all masters and all the jewelry and adornments available for my bruiser and in that fight although i didnt die I only did 200k+damage output. How can the Sk do 3 times he damage im doing? And now they are nerfing my heals and I wear leather armor!! But I dont really care as long as they do something about SK over power in BG. Yes its true that I can kill some SK but the damage out put combined with critical heals every time is outragous. I so hope that this NERF to fighter crit will help balance out the issue. i can only imagine a new player to BG looking at this. They probably would be totally turned off to BG which is a fun addition to EQ2, but these OP SK are messing everything up. NERF SK PLEASE its ruining BG. Dont see many good pallys in my tier so Im not saying anything about them, but SK need to be toned down for the sake of fairness to other classes and to other players. its totally wrong. NERF!!!!! Have a nice day

007djdeadly · 08-06-2010, 02:20 PM

Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:

TBH, if your problem is being 1 shot.. put on MC gear till you get BG gear. At least you will live. Toughness= OP.

Toughness is not OP. It is how toughness interacts with the self wards of sorcs. Since toughness is applied first to the damage number, a reasonable amount of toughness will reduce all incoming damage to below a sorcs self ward. This is why wizzies/locks can take on entire grps at a time without taking damage.

My necro has full BG armor/jewelry. All but one of my spells gets warded away by a wizzy/lock.

Also, a very good scout can still take me down in a few hits, even with all of my toughness. All that toughness has done is to protect me from a scrub scout.

So it is not toughness that is overpowered. It is the mechanics that need changing. A simple fix would be to apply the ward amount first to the incoming damage numbers, and then toughness second. This would bring sorcs in line with the survivability of the other mages:

Current mechanics...(approx numbers)

original damage: 5000

toughness/pvp modified damage (say 50%): 2500

less 2k self ward: 500 (~10% of original amount)

modified mechanics...

original damage: 5000

less 2k self ward: 3000

toughness/pvp modified damage:1500 (~30% of original amount)

dlove1 · 08-06-2010, 02:43 PM

YasikoSetsuna wrote:

dlove183 wrote:
it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them.
Stopped reading there tbh.
If you're getting anywhere even remotely close to one shotted with the current mechanics in eq2, you fail at not only the game, but at life as well - good job.

how can you be this dumb yet know how to use a computer? 1 shotted in eq2 = fail at life? you sir are truly an idiot.

yea. I fail at the game. I clear HM raid content. yes I get 1 shotted in my raid gear by OP assassins. sometimes, they stun and kill me before the stun wears off. may as well be one-shotted. I guess you are so leet that you can run a naked mage and wtfpwn everyone just by smashing them with your swollen, empty head. you should just run a lvl 1 in t9 to show them how leet you are. that means you win at real life too. you should put it on your resume.

Yimway · 08-06-2010, 02:55 PM

dlove183 wrote:

yea. I fail at the game. I clear HM raid content. yes I get 1 shotted in my raid gear by OP assassins. sometimes, they stun and kill me before the stun wears off. may as well be one-shotted. I guess you are so leet that you can run a naked mage and wtfpwn everyone just by smashing them with your swollen, empty head. you should just run a lvl 1 in t9 to show them how leet you are. that means you win at real life too. you should put it on your resume.

Your mistake is thinking the skills needed to dps pve raid content translate meaningfully to playing a warlock in pvp.

They are very different games, requireing different builds and gear.

Yimway · 08-06-2010, 02:57 PM

007djdeadly wrote:

So it is not toughness that is overpowered. It is the mechanics that need changing. A simple fix would be to apply the ward amount first to the incoming damage numbers, and then toughness second. This would bring sorcs in line with the survivability of the other mages:

Would that be fair to chain healers though?

Isn't the more reasonable aproach to address the ward amounts generated by sorcs vs trying to change a gamewide mechanic?

YasikoSetsu · 08-06-2010, 04:48 PM

dlove183 wrote:

YasikoSetsuna wrote:
dlove183 wrote:
it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them.
Stopped reading there tbh.
If you're getting anywhere even remotely close to one shotted with the current mechanics in eq2, you fail at not only the game, but at life as well - good job.
how can you be this dumb yet know how to use a computer? 1 shotted in eq2 = fail at life? you sir are truly an idiot.
yea. I fail at the game. I clear HM raid content. yes I get 1 shotted in my raid gear by OP assassins. sometimes, they stun and kill me before the stun wears off. may as well be one-shotted. I guess you are so leet that you can run a naked mage and wtfpwn everyone just by smashing them with your swollen, empty head. you should just run a lvl 1 in t9 to show them how leet you are. that means you win at real life too. you should put it on your resume.

1. Grats, you're relating killing a scripted mob that does the same thing every time you fight it, to fighting something with a brain.

2. You're crying on the forums about dying, when you're trying to PvP in raid gear, further proof that you fail.

All the character I BG/PvP on are very well geared/AA'd, sorry you cant figure out how to do that. So to answer your question, no running naked through the BG's wouldn't be an activity I would partake in. And yes, one of my favorite characters is in fact, a mage.

dlove1 · 08-06-2010, 06:31 PM

"trying to PVP in raid gear"

I've done 100 or so matches. where do you propose that I get 16 or so pieces of PVP gear? you can't tell me I'm stupid for using raid gear when I have 0 other options. I should roll naked? MC gear?

as stated in the begining, this post is about someone that is "new" to battlegrounds. this is not about people that have done the 1500+ matches to get full BG gear. I have no idea what its like to play in full PVP gear. I'm telling you what it's like to play without it.

I'm not cryin about dying. I'm cryin about the ability to have an equal chance. when my spells hit for 400 damage, are easily interrupted, and I have to stand still to cast them it's a huge disadvantage to scouts that have auto attacks that hit harder than my spells, and usable while moving, can flurry, can DA, and can crit. if a scout gets one stun on me at close range, I'm dead. with 17000 or so health, I have to cast about 30 spells (on the illy) to kill him. this is your version of balanced?

08-05-2010, 02:05 AM	#2
Xiotia Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Children of the Light Rank: Senior Member Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 445	dlove183 wrote: is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness. Some of the toughest toons to kill in t4 battlegrounds are mages. I hear its the same at 90 if the mage is equiped better. I don't play 90 level Battlegrounds because my mage dies instantly, but its because my gear sucks. Try t4 you might like it. __________________

08-05-2010, 03:28 AM	#3
Taldier Server: Venekor Guild: Opus Dei Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,071	dlove183 wrote: is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness. This post is laughable. A warlock? Seriously? I've fought against good warlocks 1v1 for 10-15 min with them absorbing or healing all of my damage. And I can take on 2-3 scouts at a time, they wont hit a decently specced sorc for much more damage than they hit me. And runspeed buffs? Buy some totems like everyone else. Do you have any toughness at all? Do you have any ward or stoneskin gear at all? Are you specced for pvp at all? lol. Anyone of any class (but sorcs in particular) dying too fast to anyone of any other class at the moment is either simply failing at the game or hopelessly outmatched in gear.

08-05-2010, 07:40 AM	#4
Beef_Supre General Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 552	Xitocia and Taldier gave you the same answer, but Xi's was the friendly wording. Mages are one of the better Battlegrounds classes, especially Warlocks. With so many able to mitigate and avoid damage, the AoE's are a strong way to hurt others ... and with the right AA's and Gear, Mages take a month and a half to kill. Scouts aren't particularly favored in Battlegrounds at the moment, and while the good ones shine brightly, the Archtypes are fairly balanced and do the job they are intended for. Certain classes (conjurors, guardians, maybe) could complain they aren't dominant in BG's.. but even they do an intended job very well in a group (yes, those matter!). Give it some time, build some gear for PvP, spec your aa's for it.. and try T4 (the more, the merrier!). You might really like it. __________________ http://big-beef-mcquaid.mybrute.com

08-05-2010, 08:10 AM	#5
max.power Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 520	dlove183 wrote: is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness. Bold part: That's the problem, EVERY class trying BGs for the first time gets killed without knowing where it came from. Get better gear (toughness, crit mit), get a better AA setup. Wizards/warlocks are scout killers.

08-05-2010, 11:10 AM	#6
Wigg Server: Butcherblock Guild: The Chosen Rank: Gladiator Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 463	dlove183 wrote: is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness. Ok, Judging by the fact you are saying you "decided to try battle grounds" combined with the fact that I looked through past post to find the character in question and saw your gear and determined you do not raid whatsoever. Those 2 things being said, you need to start at a lower tier than T9 BGs. You will not have the equipment to stand up to some of the higher dps BY FAR, and will not even dent some of the people with the gear you have. I have a lock at level 89 for BGs that I have a blast on, and honestly IMO that lock is one of the top terror's for that level range. One of the others thats probably above me for 1 on 1 terror is a wizzy. We smoke almost every scout without question or issue. In fact, I can go middle on a smugglers, and hit an absolution + rift and kill an entire group. You just need to gear yourself up before trying that tier BGs. EDIT: I just took a look at your alts and this is what I suggested you do. Get on your 80 wizzy, get a "pvp" AA spec on him, and try some level 80 BGs getting some gear there first. I would recommend at least buying chest and legs if you are going to stay in that area of BGs.

08-05-2010, 01:03 AM	#1
dlove1 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 57	is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness.

08-05-2010, 12:42 PM	#7
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	Taldier@Venekor wrote: Anyone of any class (but sorcs in particular) dying too fast to anyone of any other class at the moment is either simply failing at the game or hopelessly outmatched in gear. I have to agree, as BG's have matured, its becoming all about the gear. I'm playing an assasin and ranger in T8 I just leveled up on raf accounts that have no gear what-so-ever. I can put out dps to kill people, but I've got to be quick and use stealth and opportunity, cause they can kill me 5x as fast as I can kill them. Its just about not giving them the target/opportunity to do so. It's a fun game still, but its clear being grossly outmatched in gear is going to up the difficulty drastically. I find even without any gear, I'm still in the top 4 on kills for my team in Den, so I figure I'm not failing at the game, just outmatched in gear. =) __________________

08-05-2010, 01:10 PM	#8
dlove1 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 57	determined you do not raid whatsoever I raid plenty. I just came back to the game a few weeks ago. I've cleared most of the HM content. I don't raid on my warlock. I raid with an illy. I rolled the lock when I came back to the game. he is pretty new with only 199AA. I tried BG with the raid geared illy. he is mostly t1 with a few good pieces and a few leftovers from tso. you may as well paint yourself orange and change your last name to "huntme". I think people were making targeting macros for the illy. I would spawn and try to find someone to buff. people would run away from the fight before I even got buffed to wtfpwn me in 1 hit. 90% of bg on the illy was watching the respawn window. raid gear seems pretty worthless for BG. I forgot about the existance of sorc specs other than dps specs. I guess when spells that are supposed to hit for 60k are hitting for 4k, dps doesn't really matter. looking through act, the hardest hit I can find for my lock is 4850. I see scouts hitting 10k+. this is my impression of BG from the standpoint of someone that has never done it. I've played probably 60-80 matches. it seems to be 98% about the team you draw. I've been in a few where my side had no healer and the other side had a shaman, a druid, and a pally. I'm still a long way from having enough tokens to buy my first piece of BG gear. I have about 60 gear tokens, 25 rums, and 12 or so of the ones from the ctf map. it sucks when a ranger is running for your flag, you get a target on him, wait for your spells to light up, start casting, and he is out of range before the spell goes off.

08-05-2010, 01:26 PM	#9
dlove1 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 57	Atan@Unrest wrote: Taldier@Venekor wrote: Anyone of any class (but sorcs in particular) dying too fast to anyone of any other class at the moment is either simply failing at the game or hopelessly outmatched in gear. I have to agree, as BG's have matured, its becoming all about the gear. I'm playing an assasin and ranger in T8 I just leveled up on raf accounts that have no gear what-so-ever. I can put out dps to kill people, but I've got to be quick and use stealth and opportunity, cause they can kill me 5x as fast as I can kill them. Its just about not giving them the target/opportunity to do so. It's a fun game still, but its clear being grossly outmatched in gear is going to up the difficulty drastically. I find even without any gear, I'm still in the top 4 on kills for my team in Den, so I figure I'm not failing at the game, just outmatched in gear. =) this makes me LOL. so, assassins are NOT op at all. is just that you are really awesome at playing your RAF pl'ed assassin/ranger that has 0 gear. that makes perfect sense.

08-05-2010, 01:29 PM	#10
Xiotia Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Children of the Light Rank: Senior Member Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 445	dlove183 wrote: determined you do not raid whatsoever I raid plenty. I just came back to the game a few weeks ago. I've cleared most of the HM content. I don't raid on my warlock. I raid with an illy. I rolled the lock when I came back to the game. he is pretty new with only 199AA. I tried BG with the raid geared illy. he is mostly t1 with a few good pieces and a few leftovers from tso. you may as well paint yourself orange and change your last name to "huntme". I think people were making targeting macros for the illy. I would spawn and try to find someone to buff. people would run away from the fight before I even got buffed to wtfpwn me in 1 hit. 90% of bg on the illy was watching the respawn window. raid gear seems pretty worthless for BG. I forgot about the existance of sorc specs other than dps specs. I guess when spells that are supposed to hit for 60k are hitting for 4k, dps doesn't really matter. looking through act, the hardest hit I can find for my lock is 4850. I see scouts hitting 10k+. this is my impression of BG from the standpoint of someone that has never done it. I've played probably 60-80 matches. it seems to be 98% about the team you draw. I've been in a few where my side had no healer and the other side had a shaman, a druid, and a pally. I'm still a long way from having enough tokens to buy my first piece of BG gear. I have about 60 gear tokens, 25 rums, and 12 or so of the ones from the ctf map. it sucks when a ranger is running for your flag, you get a target on him, wait for your spells to light up, start casting, and he is out of range before the spell goes off. It does suck when you first start out in battlegrounds, but eventually you'll get the gear and the knack for pvp in BGs and it will be more fun. Just have to be patient and relaxed, 'cause if your not its just going to continue to be frustrating. Personally I hate being one shotted over and over again; hence the reason I do not play the t10 BG. I'll give level 90 a shot, occasionally, as I get a new piece for my mage. Eventually, I'll have all the bg gear and it might be more fun. If your not enjoying it in the tier you're playing in, try it on a different tier, or just play on your server (there are plenty of things to do in Everquest 2). Personally, we like seeing new faces in the t4 bgs, but starting out fresh there can be frustrating too. __________________

08-05-2010, 01:38 PM	#11
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	dlove183 wrote: so, assassins are NOT op at all. is just that you are really awesome at playing your RAF pl'ed assassin/ranger that has 0 gear. that makes perfect sense. If I don't have the opportunity advantage in the engagement, with my current gear, either predator is trivially killed. So yes, player skill impacts my success with the class. Having no gear, literally any class having the opportunity advantage on me can and likely will kill me. My point was gear is as important as player skill, if not more so. I actually find winning the opportunity advantage on the assassin fairly difficult, but I've only been trying for a few days. Once he has the gear not to fall down in die a few seconds after being targeted, he may very well be grossly overpowered. My comments were specifically to the comment of skill vs gear. On the inverse side, my previous 3 months in BG's was playing a guardian, and even being the most skilled and the best geared, that class was in a losing position. So yes, Skill + Gear +/- ClassBalance. How is this different from any other pvp mmo? __________________

08-05-2010, 02:23 PM	#12
Trenal Server: Blackburrow Guild: Guardians of the Light Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 50	dlove183 wrote: is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness. I have no problem killing most scouts on my warlock in T9. Most of the time Im on the top of the DPS listing at the end, especially in Gears. Now, when you say your rift hit for only 2500, thats prob from lack of potency and maybe crit chance and crit damage... but you also have to remeber your hitting everything around you with rift. So if there is a whole team of people around you, thats 2500X6. Also, yes you are going to get 1 shotted a lot if you have no PvP gear, or toughness. Thats just the way it is. I died a LOT when I first started BG's, which was when I hit 90. What I did was respect my AA trees to survive.. did little damage, but I survived pretty decent. Now I am back to all DPS. I die more then I should prob, but Im sure there are people out there who cuss me out all the time when they see "Trenal has killed you" hehe.

08-05-2010, 02:40 PM	#13
Taldier Server: Venekor Guild: Opus Dei Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,071	dlove183 wrote: determined you do not raid whatsoever I raid plenty. I just came back to the game a few weeks ago. I've cleared most of the HM content. I don't raid on my warlock. I raid with an illy. I rolled the lock when I came back to the game. he is pretty new with only 199AA. I tried BG with the raid geared illy. he is mostly t1 with a few good pieces and a few leftovers from tso. you may as well paint yourself orange and change your last name to "huntme". I think people were making targeting macros for the illy. I would spawn and try to find someone to buff. people would run away from the fight before I even got buffed to wtfpwn me in 1 hit. 90% of bg on the illy was watching the respawn window. raid gear seems pretty worthless for BG. In a large bg you probably wont get to put all your buffs up optimally every time you die. Most likely an enemy group is indeed target macroing an illy to get rid of the cc before they can kill anyone else. Your cc is more important than casting buffs. Your t1 raid armor is essentially worthless. Get gear with toughness on it, get jewlery with good procs. Unless you are going in with a premade group that has a healer and tank you know to be competant, survivability is your number 1 goal in getting gear and creating a spec. I forgot about the existance of sorc specs other than dps specs. I guess when spells that are supposed to hit for 60k are hitting for 4k, dps doesn't really matter. looking through act, the hardest hit I can find for my lock is 4850. I see scouts hitting 10k+. Going to talk very slowly just because this is about the 5000th time I've tried to explain this to someone. Scouts hit undergeared cloth wearing non-sorcerer mages very very hard. They hit people who actually have mitigation and damage reduction for almost nothing. Mages hit all classes with the same amount of damage all the time. That 4k spell you are landing is already being mitigated at the cap of the resistance curve. The scout is hitting someone with 0 physical mitigation, 0 toughness, 0 damage redution, and 0 crit mit. This is the same amount of damage they would do hitting a target wearing no gear at all. I have little doubt that a mage would hit higher numbers on a target wearing no gear at all. this is my impression of BG from the standpoint of someone that has never done it. I've played probably 60-80 matches. it seems to be 98% about the team you draw. I've been in a few where my side had no healer and the other side had a shaman, a druid, and a pally. I'm still a long way from having enough tokens to buy my first piece of BG gear. I have about 60 gear tokens, 25 rums, and 12 or so of the ones from the ctf map. Yes, it is, one of several reasons why bg's are fail. it sucks when a ranger is running for your flag, you get a target on him, wait for your spells to light up, start casting, and he is out of range before the spell goes off. Running fast is not a class specific ability. Rangers are possibly one of the worst equipied classes for doing this. And finally as I said before, I've seen absurdly long fights going on even between pure dps classes. With the amount of toughness reduction, crit mit, ward procs, stoneskin procs, heal procs, etc, currently in the game I find it humorous to see complaints about any class dying quickly to any other class.

08-05-2010, 02:49 PM	#14
Brook Tester Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336	I would suggest to the OP to give t4 bg's a try, I have played around in the other tiers but t4 so far has been the most fun. I don't see any op classes in that tier, though brigs are the bane of my existence and I havent found a way yet to beat them yet. You can tell the difference in someone who has taken the time to gear out for BG's and someone who hasn't and it doesn't take long. I watched a Wiz flatten two assassins while I was doing all I could on my coercer to take the wiz out and he almost managed to take me out as well, if a healer hadn't shown up he would have. I think alot of it stems from people thinking that the other players are working on a script like the mobs do. Players will pull out any advantage they can think of to win, a mob cant think to change strategies when the player does something unexpected so you get into a routine of do this then that and this is the end result and it doesn't work that way in BG. You have to use debuffs to get things to land, you have to gear to survive, you have to plan two moves ahead of what you think the other player will attempt to do next and set yourself up to take advantage of it. The hardest part of playing in a BG with random peeps is you are looking for them to do what their archetype is setup to do, in fact you rely on it, you expect the tank to keep the other players focused on him, the healer to heal, the dps to take down the target the tank has chosen, and crowd control to keep the other side from doing whatever they were trying to do. It ain't gonna happen that way though, the scout, warden, pally or w/e is going to grab the flag and run around like an idiot while the dps is going to chase them down getting picked off one at a time by a focused group of three random folks who happen to all be on the same page. One of the tanks will be running around not knowing what the objective is while a random healer is standing off away from the crowd getting mezzed stunned debuffed and not able to cast while a ranger is making them look like a pincushion till they see the revive screen, not just once but twice in a row within 2 minutes. Fun time fun times It is definatly frustrating at times being in a robe at a party where everyone seems intent on seeing you get it dirty. But, depending on the frame of mind you go in there with its also pretty dam funny. Dont blame the scouts because you didnt get what you were expecting, take what you have and work with it. __________________ But seriously, you're the kind of guy that zones into gears without a healer and spends the whole match talking about the fact there isn't a healer instead of contributing. I hate you, and everyone like you that plays this game. Please spend less time whining and more time winning, it contributes to the general growth of the game and makes gameplay more enjoyable for all.

08-05-2010, 03:45 PM	#15
Xiotia Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Children of the Light Rank: Senior Member Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 445	Brook wrote: I would suggest to the OP to give t4 bg's a try, I have played around in the other tiers but t4 so far has been the most fun. I don't see any op classes in that tier, though brigs are the bane of my existence and I havent found a way yet to beat them yet. You can tell the difference in someone who has taken the time to gear out for BG's and someone who hasn't and it doesn't take long. I watched a Wiz flatten two assassins while I was doing all I could on my coercer to take the wiz out and he almost managed to take me out as well, if a healer hadn't shown up he would have. I think alot of it stems from people thinking that the other players are working on a script like the mobs do. Players will pull out any advantage they can think of to win, a mob cant think to change strategies when the player does something unexpected so you get into a routine of do this then that and this is the end result and it doesn't work that way in BG. You have to use debuffs to get things to land, you have to gear to survive, you have to plan two moves ahead of what you think the other player will attempt to do next and set yourself up to take advantage of it. The hardest part of playing in a BG with random peeps is you are looking for them to do what their archetype is setup to do, in fact you rely on it, you expect the tank to keep the other players focused on him, the healer to heal, the dps to take down the target the tank has chosen, and crowd control to keep the other side from doing whatever they were trying to do. It ain't gonna happen that way though, the scout, warden, pally or w/e is going to grab the flag and run around like an idiot while the dps is going to chase them down getting picked off one at a time by a focused group of three random folks who happen to all be on the same page. One of the tanks will be running around not knowing what the objective is while a random healer is standing off away from the crowd getting mezzed stunned debuffed and not able to cast while a ranger is making them look like a pincushion till they see the revive screen, not just once but twice in a row within 2 minutes. Fun time fun times It is definatly frustrating at times being in a robe at a party where everyone seems intent on seeing you get it dirty. But, depending on the frame of mind you go in there with its also pretty dam funny. Dont blame the scouts because you didnt get what you were expecting, take what you have and work with it. I actually find myself in a BG state of mind when fighting mobs. It sucks when you try to run behind a mob and they turn with you instead of standing there confused. lol __________________

08-05-2010, 04:29 PM	#16
NardacMM Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 319	battlegrounds sucks until you get the knack of it. Yes, gear plays a huge role, but I have a friend who is saving every single token for level 90 gear and hasn't upgraded anything since he started. He started out with 2 or 3 kills and at the bottom of the damage parse and now he'll finish top 5 every time for total damage and top 3 or 4 for kills. Strategy is important.. especialy when you can AE. __________________

08-06-2010, 01:38 AM	#17
Brugg Server: Unrest Guild: Retribution Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 49	just got out of a ganak that was 6v5 in their favor and the SK out dps everyonex3. [Removed for Content] man they have beast heals, crit damage spells and plate armor. how is that a balanced class? ( yes I know ganak is 12v12 but it didnt fill out ) . I hope they are easier to kill after the NERF on their crit heal. SK is too OP if they can parse like that. ( over 600k ) in an level 80 BG. sorry just a vent. I dont believe that scouts are out of line because it takes real skill to play one. And they are vulnerable. SK is the biggest problem in BG. Noone should be able to do what they do.

08-06-2010, 04:32 AM	#18
dlove1 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 57	it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them. maybe it takes skill to turn on auto bow attack with 100% crit and 100% da and run backwards. I'm just not sure. I tried using my ranged auto attack on my mages and it just doesn't seem to work. I do have 1 damage spell that I can cast while moving. it has a pretty long recast. I haven't been 1 shotted by any SKs. also, they don't have heals at all only lifetaps. paladins seem 5x more powerful that SKs. I tried something new. I am back on the illy mezzing and stunning everyone that comes in range. something that actually works well is finding a pally that will give me amends and giving him tc w/spellda, IA, AI, tandem, and haste. I stand by his foot and stun/mezz everything. my illy is full dps spec with AE autoattack 100%da, capped on cast. even in full raid gear my ZW dps is less than 600. that seems to be a testament to how terrible resist rates are in BG. procs like malific fury are doing 13dps zw. torrent does 11.

08-06-2010, 06:16 AM	#19
Guld_Ulrish Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 607	dlove183 wrote: is this really the best the ratards can do? why does my warlocks rift hit for 2500 while almost everyone with chain armor, tons of class speed buffs, high damage auto attacks, and the ability to do damage while running have the ability to 1 shot me? I've been sick the last few days and decided to try battle grounds. I'm sure this has been brought up before. why is it left broken? mages get the shaft in BG. they have to screw up resists to go a little deeper? typical SOE retardedness. Even my bloody necro is a tank in t9, and warlocks are just lol cause their dmg reduction. I dont even attack warlocks cause there are no point. __________________ (Koppar PvP video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s

08-06-2010, 07:52 AM	#20
YasikoSetsu General Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 193	dlove183 wrote: it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them. Stopped reading there tbh. If you're getting anywhere even remotely close to one shotted with the current mechanics in eq2, you fail at not only the game, but at life as well - good job.

08-06-2010, 10:37 AM	#21
Xiotia Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Children of the Light Rank: Senior Member Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 445	normas wrote: just got out of a ganak that was 6v5 in their favor and the SK out dps everyonex3. [Removed for Content] man they have beast heals, crit damage spells and plate armor. how is that a balanced class? ( yes I know ganak is 12v12 but it didnt fill out ) . I hope they are easier to kill after the NERF on their crit heal. SK is too OP if they can parse like that. ( over 600k ) in an level 80 BG. sorry just a vent. I dont believe that scouts are out of line because it takes real skill to play one. And they are vulnerable. SK is the biggest problem in BG. Noone should be able to do what they do. They are incredibly difficult to kill sometimes, but I don't want them nerfed because they make incredible tanks and off tanks in instances. I mean Battlegrounds aside, would you not prefer they keep the shadowknight a good working class for regular game play? Besides, It still comes down to gear, spells, and AA. A maxed out shadowknight is difficult in BGs, but If they are just wearing the best gear and lack the aa and spells I can kill them. __________________

08-06-2010, 11:56 AM	#22
Wigg Server: Butcherblock Guild: The Chosen Rank: Gladiator Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 463	TBH, if your problem is being 1 shot.. put on MC gear till you get BG gear. At least you will live. Toughness= OP.

08-06-2010, 12:10 PM	#23
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	As a warlock. If you dont have any toughness you will not enjoy BG 1 bit. If you have just about every piece of toughness like me, you lol everytime you tank full groups and not leave green. __________________

08-06-2010, 02:19 PM	#24
Brugg Server: Unrest Guild: Retribution Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 49	Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote: normas wrote: just got out of a ganak that was 6v5 in their favor and the SK out dps everyonex3. [Removed for Content] man they have beast heals, crit damage spells and plate armor. how is that a balanced class? ( yes I know ganak is 12v12 but it didnt fill out ) . I hope they are easier to kill after the NERF on their crit heal. SK is too OP if they can parse like that. ( over 600k ) in an level 80 BG. sorry just a vent. I dont believe that scouts are out of line because it takes real skill to play one. And they are vulnerable. SK is the biggest problem in BG. Noone should be able to do what they do. They are incredibly difficult to kill sometimes, but I don't want them nerfed because they make incredible tanks and off tanks in instances. I mean Battlegrounds aside, would you not prefer they keep the shadowknight a good working class for regular game play? Besides, It still comes down to gear, spells, and AA. A maxed out shadowknight is difficult in BGs, but If they are just wearing the best gear and lack the aa and spells I can kill them. I dont want them nerfed in pve. But in BG it is unacceptable that a SK does 600+k damage when the next highest was around 300k. And he was 3rd in the heals given stat. Everyone of his heals did crit and I just think its unfair that they dmage like a warlock, heal like a inquis and dps like a scout. totally unacceptable in pvp. They should make this change for pvp only as they did the mages damage. i wear full 80 BG gear all masters and all the jewelry and adornments available for my bruiser and in that fight although i didnt die I only did 200k+damage output. How can the Sk do 3 times he damage im doing? And now they are nerfing my heals and I wear leather armor!! But I dont really care as long as they do something about SK over power in BG. Yes its true that I can kill some SK but the damage out put combined with critical heals every time is outragous. I so hope that this NERF to fighter crit will help balance out the issue. i can only imagine a new player to BG looking at this. They probably would be totally turned off to BG which is a fun addition to EQ2, but these OP SK are messing everything up. NERF SK PLEASE its ruining BG. Dont see many good pallys in my tier so Im not saying anything about them, but SK need to be toned down for the sake of fairness to other classes and to other players. its totally wrong. NERF!!!!! Have a nice day

08-06-2010, 02:20 PM	#25
007djdeadly Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 53	Wigg@Butcherblock wrote: TBH, if your problem is being 1 shot.. put on MC gear till you get BG gear. At least you will live. Toughness= OP. Toughness is not OP. It is how toughness interacts with the self wards of sorcs. Since toughness is applied first to the damage number, a reasonable amount of toughness will reduce all incoming damage to below a sorcs self ward. This is why wizzies/locks can take on entire grps at a time without taking damage. My necro has full BG armor/jewelry. All but one of my spells gets warded away by a wizzy/lock. Also, a very good scout can still take me down in a few hits, even with all of my toughness. All that toughness has done is to protect me from a scrub scout. So it is not toughness that is overpowered. It is the mechanics that need changing. A simple fix would be to apply the ward amount first to the incoming damage numbers, and then toughness second. This would bring sorcs in line with the survivability of the other mages: Current mechanics...(approx numbers) original damage: 5000 toughness/pvp modified damage (say 50%): 2500 less 2k self ward: 500 (~10% of original amount) modified mechanics... original damage: 5000 less 2k self ward: 3000 toughness/pvp modified damage:1500 (~30% of original amount)

08-06-2010, 02:43 PM	#26
dlove1 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 57	YasikoSetsuna wrote: dlove183 wrote: it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them. Stopped reading there tbh. If you're getting anywhere even remotely close to one shotted with the current mechanics in eq2, you fail at not only the game, but at life as well - good job. how can you be this dumb yet know how to use a computer? 1 shotted in eq2 = fail at life? you sir are truly an idiot. yea. I fail at the game. I clear HM raid content. yes I get 1 shotted in my raid gear by OP assassins. sometimes, they stun and kill me before the stun wears off. may as well be one-shotted. I guess you are so leet that you can run a naked mage and wtfpwn everyone just by smashing them with your swollen, empty head. you should just run a lvl 1 in t9 to show them how leet you are. that means you win at real life too. you should put it on your resume.

08-06-2010, 02:55 PM	#27
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	dlove183 wrote: yea. I fail at the game. I clear HM raid content. yes I get 1 shotted in my raid gear by OP assassins. sometimes, they stun and kill me before the stun wears off. may as well be one-shotted. I guess you are so leet that you can run a naked mage and wtfpwn everyone just by smashing them with your swollen, empty head. you should just run a lvl 1 in t9 to show them how leet you are. that means you win at real life too. you should put it on your resume. Your mistake is thinking the skills needed to dps pve raid content translate meaningfully to playing a warlock in pvp. They are very different games, requireing different builds and gear. __________________

08-06-2010, 02:57 PM	#28
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	007djdeadly wrote: So it is not toughness that is overpowered. It is the mechanics that need changing. A simple fix would be to apply the ward amount first to the incoming damage numbers, and then toughness second. This would bring sorcs in line with the survivability of the other mages: Would that be fair to chain healers though? Isn't the more reasonable aproach to address the ward amounts generated by sorcs vs trying to change a gamewide mechanic? __________________

08-06-2010, 04:48 PM	#29
YasikoSetsu General Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 193	dlove183 wrote: YasikoSetsuna wrote: dlove183 wrote: it takes skill to stealth, cast biggest attack at cloth wearer and 1 shot them. Stopped reading there tbh. If you're getting anywhere even remotely close to one shotted with the current mechanics in eq2, you fail at not only the game, but at life as well - good job. how can you be this dumb yet know how to use a computer? 1 shotted in eq2 = fail at life? you sir are truly an idiot. yea. I fail at the game. I clear HM raid content. yes I get 1 shotted in my raid gear by OP assassins. sometimes, they stun and kill me before the stun wears off. may as well be one-shotted. I guess you are so leet that you can run a naked mage and wtfpwn everyone just by smashing them with your swollen, empty head. you should just run a lvl 1 in t9 to show them how leet you are. that means you win at real life too. you should put it on your resume. 1. Grats, you're relating killing a scripted mob that does the same thing every time you fight it, to fighting something with a brain. 2. You're crying on the forums about dying, when you're trying to PvP in raid gear, further proof that you fail. All the character I BG/PvP on are very well geared/AA'd, sorry you cant figure out how to do that. So to answer your question, no running naked through the BG's wouldn't be an activity I would partake in. And yes, one of my favorite characters is in fact, a mage.

08-06-2010, 06:31 PM	#30
dlove1 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 57	"trying to PVP in raid gear" I've done 100 or so matches. where do you propose that I get 16 or so pieces of PVP gear? you can't tell me I'm stupid for using raid gear when I have 0 other options. I should roll naked? MC gear? as stated in the begining, this post is about someone that is "new" to battlegrounds. this is not about people that have done the 1500+ matches to get full BG gear. I have no idea what its like to play in full PVP gear. I'm telling you what it's like to play without it. I'm not cryin about dying. I'm cryin about the ability to have an equal chance. when my spells hit for 400 damage, are easily interrupted, and I have to stand still to cast them it's a huge disadvantage to scouts that have auto attacks that hit harder than my spells, and usable while moving, can flurry, can DA, and can crit. if a scout gets one stun on me at close range, I'm dead. with 17000 or so health, I have to cast about 30 spells (on the illy) to kill him. this is your version of balanced?