Idea - Fully Grandmastered

[jamisz]

Heres my idea.  In order to become fully Grandmastered you need to acquire all of the levels of the master spell. 

For example if I want Fusion Grandmastered, I would need to acquire levels 1-90 versions of the master version of the spell.  Doing this would make people do lower tier zones more often.  And make lower tier master spells more valuable.

Throw in a fancy title too for when you get fully mastered & of course fully grandmastered.

-Peace

[RogueSpideyChick]

do u know how easy it is to be fully mastered from 1-90 ESPECIALLY with the researcher?

[Ambrin]

They could add Grandmaster spells that only drop from raid mobs. They could even limit it so the only Grandmaster spells available are the ones in your character development tree.

[Korrupt]

I LOVE the idea of an epic only version of spells. The "fabled" raid spell version if you will. Absolutely LOVE it. The best of the best, be it gear or spells, should be earned by the most difficult tasks. Every update this game goes farther and farther towards the entitlement /easy road, would be nice to have more things you have to show for actually doing the work.

[ShadowMunkie]

This is an interesting idea, however a "new" way to do it would make it the equvilient to the old M4 or a new tier. Maybe "Ancestor", to obtain this level you must gain all level masters from level 1-CAP of the spell you wish to get the Ancestor level. The Ancestor level should give a "bonus" to that spell. A couple bonuses could be from the ones below. (These are just a stepping stone.)

1. On a successful combat hit or spell hit has a 10% chance to deal addition damage. (10% of the amount dealt.)
2. While active: If you sucessfully complete a four man heroic oppertunity deal XXXX amount of damage. (100000-200000)
3. On a successful debuff has a 10% chance to increase raid-wide damage by XXX amount. (Maybe 100-200)
4. On a successful heal has a 10% chance to heal additional damage. (10% of heal/ward.)
5. Temporarly enpowers 4 group members with Stealth Invasion. (Stealth Invasion gives 1 member of each group a spell to disengage the currently targeted mob.)

Okay so these are just a couple stepping stones on which they could use.

DD, AOEDD, DOT, AOEDOT, PBAOE could use 1.Buffs could use 2.Debuffs use 3.Heals/Wards use 4.Temporary abilities use 5.

These abilities already exsist on spells from Splitpaw to a certain degree. 2 is a completely new one and would give people insentive to do heroic oppertunities. 5 is an ability that I thought would be really could to give people in the raid as a just in case of a wipe. With all the "failures" sony is putting into the game it would save raid time if someone did fail.

[Aule]

EQ1 tried epic raid dropped spells, it failed. I'd be all for your grandmaster idea, since it would give me two chars with 100% grandmaster spells. Really, it just takes a moderate amount of time devoted towards it to get yourself fully mastered t1-t9. This would have been a much better idea prior to the research assistant fiasco.

[Barx]

Before the RA, being 100% mastered was a good bit of work -- either out farming/hunting for the spells or watching the broker and nabbing them as they appeared. Now, old spells are easy to do, getting a "Grandmaster" version for having all the previous verisons does not make much sense.

Something like an achievement that gave titles for # of masters or something would be more in line.

[Colleptic3]

EQ1 Tried something similar, it did not work.

If they ever did something like that again, the Epic Spell that dropped off the Epic mob(s), should only be Epic/Raid encounter only. This would mean a person that does not raid, would not require it and not feel like they are getting left out. An example could be a SK Blasphemy Epic Encounter Taunt; it could change that spell's taunting power and add a overtime element to it to help hold hate etc. When used outside of a Raid mob, it would act just like regular Blasphemy etc. The Epic spell, really would just add to what is already there "if" the encounter is epic etc.

That might be cool.

[Colleptic3]

Jahsin@Unrest wrote:

Throw in a fancy title too for when you get fully mastered & of course fully grandmastered.

-Peace

The title would have to be VERY cool for a feat like that, but ya, they should have one. If Someone had the time to do 1-90 Masters alone, they should not only get a title, but a lvl 90 Charm/Symbol that is very end game oriented.

[Crismorn]

It is EASY to get all m1s from 1-90, why would you get an endgame reward for doing something so easy?

Even before the RA it was still easy to do.

[Korrupt]

Out of curiosity, why did epic dropped spells fail? I think it would make a tier of spells actually rare again and give them some relevance again rather than everyone being fully mastered from solo mob drops and research assistants. What was the fail exactly, a huge backlash from casual players that wanted the best without doing the work(to me that's not a fail rather it's whining due to a sense of entitlement)? Or an actual fail of some sort that I can't think of?

[Aule]

The epic dropped spells failed because they were put in partway through an expansion cycle and then when the level cap went up the epic spells weren't upgraded, and now sucked in comparison.

[Korrupt]

Well that would be easily remedied. Every tier have apprentice(automatic), adept(solo mobs), adept 3(crafted) master(heroic drop), grandmaster(character selection), and add a new tier of epic dropped spells. Would be pretty similar to the gear progression we have currently with the new spell tier being the fabled equivalent. Yes I know fabled gear drops from heroic instances and I have always been against that, I think each tier should have it's own unique level of rewards.

I see this as a way to create a new teir of rare and prestigious spells that we used to have with masters before SOE watered them down. Don't really see any drawbacks outside of people wanting top tier stuff without actually doing the top tier. To those people I would say put in the work, reap the rewards.

[kcirrot]

It's not that I think the idea is so bad, but do we really need even more power?  My Fury's heals are already so strong that I only go out of DPS stance on raids/BG.

[Chanson]

Soon you might be able to just buy them with Station Cash.

[TheSpin]

kcirrot wrote:

It's not that I think the idea is so bad, but do we really need even more power?  My Fury's heals are already so strong that I only go out of DPS stance on raids/BG.

This is the sad truth about the game right now in my opinion.  Everything is just too powerful as it is.

However, I have thought for a while it would be cool if becoming fully mastered on an ability provided some benefit... more along the terms of a potency bonus rather than a new tier of spell.

[Alvane]

Jahsin@Unrest wrote:

Heres my idea.  In order to become fully Grandmastered you need to acquire all of the levels of the master spell. 

For example if I want Fusion Grandmastered, I would need to acquire levels 1-90 versions of the master version of the spell.  Doing this would make people do lower tier zones more often.  And make lower tier master spells more valuable.

Throw in a fancy title too for when you get fully mastered & of course fully grandmastered.

-Peace

For what purpose would you ever need a bunch of GM spells? Mobs have already been nerfed. Masters at level aren't even really needed for tiers, even for dungeons. In many cases - especially below T-8 adepts and apps work just fine for most all questlines. One might want to pick up a few experts if they venture into group dungeons.

One character of mine at cap managed to solo kill every named (no raids) and doing every questline offerered in Sentinel's Fate using T-8 gear and no T-9 masters. That character now has a few T-9 masters - about 20% of the total, a couple pieces of T-9 jewelry and has no problems doing any group instances.

You want to do this just to raise prices of lower tier masters? Why? They are already high mostly for transmutters, who really don't need them anyway. And few peeps really care about having superior adorns. And why pay when you can get your lower level tier masters through the Research Assistance free - in a few hours or a few days? And titles are a dime a dozen - flavor of the month.

[Pervis]

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

For what purpose would you ever need a bunch of GM spells?

Progression never ends. That is enough of a reason to warrent something like this.

If it were up to me, I would implement it as a raid dropped component for crafters to turn in to a spell. This gives some flexibility as to what spell gets bought in to the game (or we could end up with 15 - 20 monk grandmasters on the broker), but it also gives a valid reason for casual players to not argue: research assistants do not research player made spells.

If they were to do this though, I would suggest removing thecurrent grandmaster system, and replacing  it with something similar to the old adept 2 system. Make 4 spells each tier that are similar to an existing spell for each class, and offer them as an alternative. If done right, it would be very similar to some healers having the option, via AAs, to have CA alternate versions of their damage spells.

Could even be super awesome and have the alternate spells scale in level, and also match the quality tier of the highest level spell of the spell line that it is an alternate for.

[Banditman]

Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:

They could add Grandmaster spells that only drop from raid mobs. They could even limit it so the only Grandmaster spells available are the ones in your character development tree.

We used to have this.  Back in T5, the only mobs that could reasonably be expected to drop a Master spell were raid mobs.  Sure, you'd still get the *extremely* rare Master chest off of pretty much anything, but for any sort of reasonable expectation of a Master spell, it was raid or bust.

Well, this [Removed for Content] off the casual people.  They couldn't get the Master spells they "needed".  So, more and more heroic zones started dropping Masters, and soon, people simply said that Master was the defacto standard quality.

If you do this, you'll simply have the same thing again.  Casual players will want the "GrandMaster" spells, and they'll be added to heroic zones, and everyone will have them.

[The_Cheeseman]

I question the value of adding yet another means of mudflation to EQ2. The division of wealth always ends up getting wider as an expansion rolls on, and it wasn't so long ago during late TSO that high-end raiders and casual players were essentially playing different games, and the mechanics began to break down when the two groups joined together. There is only a certain amount of power variance between characters of a given level that is healthy for a game like this. If you start making the top-end characters too high above the rest, the fragile balance is threatened. It's exactly why EQ1 ended up being branded as a "hardcore-only" game and why so few new players even give it a shot, these days. Nobody likes to level up to the cap, only to find out that there is a nigh-insurmountable barrier to entry for the really compelling high-end content.

[Crismorn]

Dont even try that card this game has been destroying the ever shrinking difference between high-end gear and casual gear for 3 years

[Banditman]

The_Cheeseman wrote:

I question the value of adding yet another means of mudflation to EQ2. The division of wealth always ends up getting wider as an expansion rolls on, and it wasn't so long ago during late TSO that high-end raiders and casual players were essentially playing different games, and the mechanics began to break down when the two groups joined together. There is only a certain amount of power variance between characters of a given level that is healthy for a game like this. If you start making the top-end characters too high above the rest, the fragile balance is threatened. It's exactly why EQ1 ended up being branded as a "hardcore-only" game and why so few new players even give it a shot, these days. Nobody likes to level up to the cap, only to find out that there is a nigh-insurmountable barrier to entry for the really compelling high-end content.

No.  The problem that EQ1 had was that it took far, far too long for a player to become "raid ready".  Getting to the level cap in EQ1 was no trivial matter.  Then you had to grind AA's, and in that game it was a GRIND.

I played EQ1 through beta and into release, I was a Magician (in EQ2 terms, a Conjuror).  I left the game just before the first expansion.

I returned to the game a couple years later, after Planes of Power, but before Gates of Discord.  I decided to start a Shaman.  Because of the mechanics of the game, a Shaman was a *very* desired class, and it had a lot of cool aspects going for it.

I played the Shaman for over a year, playing every day, finally getting him to the level cap of 65.  It took another six months of grinding AA's before a raid guild would even LOOK at me, despite the fact that every raid guild on the server was recruiting Shaman.

That was the problem with EQ1.

[Solarax]

there was even master2 spells in eq2 but were taken out of game very quickly. the only drop i ever saw was a monk one.

personally i think the game has become very watered down and the destinction of gear and spells not wide enough for the truely good stuff.

in EQ1 there was a sense of gratification and acomplishment when you got that 1 peice you have been dieing to get for a month  but that feeling is MUTED and not as defined in eq2

maybe if the game was more focused on ROLES a character played than specific AA and classes.

but to bring it all together a class should be balanced purely by spells and naked THEN AA THEN Gear.

thats the only way to make the cookie cutter gear itemization work. spells on the otherhand are a very personal and direct thing that impact just the individual

maybe i shouldnt ramble after 2 days of no sleep ....

[Mogrim]

Thought: M2 spells Hierloom? Or how about quested? Maybe add a few quests to unlock additional M2 choices?

[Alvane]

Mogrim wrote:

Thought: M2 spells Hierloom? Or how about quested? Maybe add a few quests to unlock additional M2 choices?

For what purpose? Progression? What progression? Does nothing, except maybe for raiders. For the average player? They already can kill mobs, handle dungeons, etc.? One doesn't need even all masters in order to clear group dungeons. Now, if your purpose is to make it easier to kill boss mobs - well, is that progression? I think not, unless you consider killling a mob in 3 minutes instead of 5 minutes as being progression.

[DeathtoGnomes]

Banditman wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

I question the value of adding yet another means of mudflation to EQ2. The division of wealth always ends up getting wider as an expansion rolls on, and it wasn't so long ago during late TSO that high-end raiders and casual players were essentially playing different games, and the mechanics began to break down when the two groups joined together. There is only a certain amount of power variance between characters of a given level that is healthy for a game like this. If you start making the top-end characters too high above the rest, the fragile balance is threatened. It's exactly why EQ1 ended up being branded as a "hardcore-only" game and why so few new players even give it a shot, these days. Nobody likes to level up to the cap, only to find out that there is a nigh-insurmountable barrier to entry for the really compelling high-end content.

No.  The problem that EQ1 had was that it took far, far too long for a player to become "raid ready".  Getting to the level cap in EQ1 was no trivial matter.  Then you had to grind AA's, and in that game it was a GRIND.

I played EQ1 through beta and into release, I was a Magician (in EQ2 terms, a Conjuror).  I left the game just before the first expansion.

I returned to the game a couple years later, after Planes of Power, but before Gates of Discord.  I decided to start a Shaman.  Because of the mechanics of the game, a Shaman was a *very* desired class, and it had a lot of cool aspects going for it.

I played the Shaman for over a year, playing every day, finally getting him to the level cap of 65.  It took another six months of grinding AA's before a raid guild would even LOOK at me, despite the fact that every raid guild on the server was recruiting Shaman.

That was the problem with EQ1.

I played Timesink1(EQ) on and off for years, when they added ancestral type spells I was like cool until I found out that the EQ1 Devs stupidly added them to the normal loot list for raid_mob_001 and while the complaints piled up, those same devs (??) flat out ignored them. I hate devs holier-then-thou attitude and think they need to be tied down and flogged. I suggested that they add bulk AAs on the EQ1 monkeyshop, since raid guild need you to have 1500+ before they acknowledge you and to get more then 50 aa a day is nothing short of explioting the game. Thats not to say it cant be done, if you box and grind 24/7. I wish it was easy to get AAs in EQ1 as it is in EQ2, I might still be trying to play that Timesink...

[Gilli]

If they did this, I like the idea the best that makes the abilities usable only in raid zones or on epic mobs.  I'm already left with tweety-birds flying around my head when we get a raider in a PUG for a heroic zone and he or she accounts for more DPS than our entire group put together.  Sure, it makes it faster, but it trivalizes it and doesn't make it very fun for me.  The last thing I need is some SK with an epic monkey pull.

Anyway, my real concern isn't so much balance in lower tiers but balance on these abilities.  Nobody foams at the mouth over balance like the people who live and breath the impact of tiny changes and tweaks - the raiders.  Do you honestly think they could balance what each class gets to the satisfaction of the majority?

True, I haven't seen too much bile about whose red adornments are better than others, but then again, I haven't looked for it.

[Yimway]

Arica@Guk wrote:

do u know how easy it is to be fully mastered from 1-90 ESPECIALLY with the researcher?

Yeah...  And I was fully mastered before the RA.  And I'm not bitter!  No!  Not at all! 

atleastikeeptellingmyselfthat