Do guild leaders really need to see Alts?

[agnott]

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

erin wrote:

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

I think the less opportunity bleeding heart liberals have to petition for the removal of information available to the game as a whole the better. I think it is totally wrong to allow people to hide information about their characters. I'm not asking to see your credit card details, just whether you're a potential troublemaker or whether you swap guilds every week. This is a game, not real life, and as such issues such as personal privacy are irrelevant. If you have certain things you don't want people to know about then perhaps you should ask yourself why that is rather than seek to hide them from public view.

Weird, I'm definitely not a bleeding heart liberal, and yet I absolutely want the game to protect my privacy.  Go figure.

You have no right to this sort of information.  If you are my guild leader and you ASK, and make it a requirement for being in the guild, then I choose whether to supply the information or leave the guild.  But for SOE to supply the information?  No.

Reality check.

This has nothing to do with YOUR privacy. It is to do with your character's information. Big difference. Huge. Explain to me why you don't want anyone to see your character information please, I'm really interested.

Regardless of how harmless some information seems to be,  Do you really think that gives you the right to know it?

[Thunderthyze]

agnott wrote:

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

Reality check.

This has nothing to do with YOUR privacy. It is to do with your character's information. Big difference. Huge. Explain to me why you don't want anyone to see your character information please, I'm really interested.

Regardless of how harmless some information seems to be,  Do you really think that gives you the right to know it?

Amazingly I'm not at all interested in your character. However if, for instance, you acted like a bit of an idiot I might feel it prudent to check out your alts so that I can avoid you in future. It's not a question of a right of privacy because we're talking about game characters here, not your real life affairs. It is purely that I feel it is wrong in this environment for people to be able to deliberately cloak their characters in secrecy to the degree you seek. It would be my right as a guild leader to deny you access to my guild if I believed you were hiding something as it is equally your right to decide whether or not to continue masking information you deem integral to national security.

[Alvane]

On the other side of the coin, I've had stalkers follow my characters - so I stopped showing alts and put those peeps on ignore and reported them to SoE.

I've also had peeps send me invites to this or that - and not even a "Hello, we are forming a group and we need a bruiser - would you like to join us?"

Since I've put annon on every character, I no longer get those annoying invites. But peeps who do know me, will send me tells asking if I'm available for a group, etc. And that's the power of a good friends' list more than whether or not one is annon or not.

[Reapicheap]

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

agnott wrote:

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

Reality check.

This has nothing to do with YOUR privacy. It is to do with your character's information. Big difference. Huge. Explain to me why you don't want anyone to see your character information please, I'm really interested.

Regardless of how harmless some information seems to be,  Do you really think that gives you the right to know it?

Amazingly I'm not at all interested in your character. However if, for instance, you acted like a bit of an idiot I might feel it prudent to check out your alts so that I can avoid you in future. It's not a question of a right of privacy because we're talking about game characters here, not your real life affairs. It is purely that I feel it is wrong in this environment for people to be able to deliberately cloak their characters in secrecy to the degree you seek. It would be my right as a guild leader to deny you access to my guild if I believed you were hiding something as it is equally your right to decide whether or not to continue masking information you deem integral to national security.

I believe the discussion you want to be part of is the /ignoreaccount thread a few spots over.  This one is about not allowing tools that aren't needed to be put into the game and potentially cause some very real legal issues for both SOE and any players who value their privacy, legal fallacy that it is.

And the only reality check here is that you don't have a RIGHT to see that character's information, either.  If they don't want you to see it, you can't insist.  You have no rights but those someone else gives you.  In the case of the game, SOE is the highest authority that can give you said rights, and they haven't.  So whether or not they want to hide their information, SOE has given them that right, and has withheld the right for you to see any hidden information.  It isn't yours, so you don't get to have a say in it.

[Carthr]

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

[Guy De Alsace]

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

Lol. Of course you have a right to privacy. Just like any account on any website on any server or wherever you are in the world doing whatever you are doing. Just because this is an MMO doesnt mean you automatically lose all rights or expectations of privacy.

If you have no right to privacy on EQ2 then I guess you HAVE to disclose who you are, where you live, the name of your wife, dog, pet hamster, all your pin numbers to absolutely anyone who asks for it.

 Seriously [Removed for Content]..

As an aside...is there any list anywhere that states which guild does alt scans on applicants so I can avoid them? If I knew my current guild was doing that I'd just quit it asap.

[Carthr]

Guy De Alsace wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

Lol. Of course you have a right to privacy. Just like any account on any website on any server or wherever you are in the world doing whatever you are doing. Just because this is an MMO doesnt mean you automatically lose all rights or expectations of privacy.

If you have no right to privacy on EQ2 then I guess you HAVE to disclose who you are, where you live, the name of your wife, dog, pet hamster, all your pin numbers to absolutely anyone who asks for it.

 Seriously [Removed for Content]..

They can't divuldge your PERSONAL(human, you know the person behind the keyboard) info, however the name of your alts is not personal information.  Just like you have no control over weither I can see you log on or not..  You can ignore me, but you can't keep me from seeing if you are on.  Your toon's rights have no legal recourse.. You have the rights that are granted to you by SoE, not by law. This is because a fictional character in an imaginary world isn't really governed by law. 

So to reiterate; the person behind the keyboard is protected by the legal system, the toons in the make believe world are not..  If SoE wanted to let everyone know who your alts were. what server etc they could..No problem...(pst they already have)..

[Te'ana]

Carthrax wrote:

Guy De Alsace wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

Lol. Of course you have a right to privacy. Just like any account on any website on any server or wherever you are in the world doing whatever you are doing. Just because this is an MMO doesnt mean you automatically lose all rights or expectations of privacy.

If you have no right to privacy on EQ2 then I guess you HAVE to disclose who you are, where you live, the name of your wife, dog, pet hamster, all your pin numbers to absolutely anyone who asks for it.

 Seriously [Removed for Content]..

They can't divuldge your PERSONAL(human, you know the person behind the keyboard) info, however the name of your alts is not personal information.  Just like you have no control over weither I can see you log on or not..  You can ignore me, but you can't keep me from seeing if you are on.  Your toon's rights have no legal recourse.. You have the rights that are granted to you by SoE, not by law. This is because a fictional character in an imaginary world isn't really governed by law. 

So to reiterate; the person behind the keyboard is protected by the legal system, the toons in the make believe world are not..  If SoE wanted to let everyone know who your alts were. what server etc they could..No problem...(pst they already have)..

The tenth amendment of the United States Constitution does not distinquish between a person and their avatar. Why do you think an avatar is not an extension of one's self? It should be, just as one's personal papers are an extension of ones self. Just because the tech has changed it does not mean that the intent of our founders has cahnged.

[Lethe5683]

Legality doesn't have anything to do with this.  It's just the fact that adding this sort of feature would upset far more people than it would please and is very unneccisary so it will not be done.

[Reapicheap]

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

[Thunderthyze]

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

The tenth amendment of the United States Constitution does not distinquish between a person and their avatar.

Don't live in the USA. And if you think this is the kind of inane rubbish your system of democracy has been applied to then just as well tbh.

[Carthr]

Reapicheap@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

Your reading comprehension blows...  Do you NOT U N D E R S T A N D   P E R S O N A L..  Personal information about the account holder has a right to privacy...  Contact info, credit card info, real name etc.. The name of your alts?  Nope.. Sure doesn't..

[Carthr]

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Guy De Alsace wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

Lol. Of course you have a right to privacy. Just like any account on any website on any server or wherever you are in the world doing whatever you are doing. Just because this is an MMO doesnt mean you automatically lose all rights or expectations of privacy.

If you have no right to privacy on EQ2 then I guess you HAVE to disclose who you are, where you live, the name of your wife, dog, pet hamster, all your pin numbers to absolutely anyone who asks for it.

 Seriously [Removed for Content]..

They can't divuldge your PERSONAL(human, you know the person behind the keyboard) info, however the name of your alts is not personal information.  Just like you have no control over weither I can see you log on or not..  You can ignore me, but you can't keep me from seeing if you are on.  Your toon's rights have no legal recourse.. You have the rights that are granted to you by SoE, not by law. This is because a fictional character in an imaginary world isn't really governed by law. 

So to reiterate; the person behind the keyboard is protected by the legal system, the toons in the make believe world are not..  If SoE wanted to let everyone know who your alts were. what server etc they could..No problem...(pst they already have)..

The tenth amendment of the United States Constitution does not distinquish between a person and their avatar. Why do you think an avatar is not an extension of one's self? It should be, just as one's personal papers are an extension of ones self. Just because the tech has changed it does not mean that the intent of our founders has cahnged.

Then what about my first amendment?!  My right to Freedom of Speech!  If my avatar carries all the rights of a person, why do I get censored!?  Oh that's right! Because SoE grants the rights that I have in game... Ahhhh..

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/05/65fr33645.pdf

[Rijacki]

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

Reality check.

This has nothing to do with YOUR privacy. It is to do with your character's information. Big difference. Huge. Explain to me why you don't want anyone to see your character information please, I'm really interested.

You should check yourself.

My characters are a reflection on how I, the player, spend my free time. Thus they ARE part of the private details of my RL person.

If I don't want to display how I spend MY free time, I can choose not to disclose that by enabling privacy settings on my account in various ways.

YOU (and no one else other than SOE) have no rights to either see what I do in my RL spare time. Nor do you have any rights to dictate how I spend it.

You can ASK me to show you and I can decline. You can deny me membership in a group or guild or whatever based on my decling, that's you option.

In exactly the same way a university can decline a student applicant for not disclosing some or all of their free time activities which may or may not be related to the academic slot the student is aiming to obtain but that university has no rights to go behind the student's back, break any privacy agreements and obtain the information on their own. In exactly the same way a private club can request information from an applicant about the applicant's activities but has no rights to break any privacy agreements in place (workplace or hobby) in order to obtain that information. In exactly the same way, even, an employer can request information about what an employee does in his/her free time but has no rights to break any privacy settings the employee has in place to obtain those details on their own. All three of these examples can obtain, on their own, any information the student/applicant/employee chooses to freely display (such on EQ2players, Facebook Profile, Twitter account, or whatever).

Any guild leder or guild recruiter can ASK a player applicant to disclose his/her alts and detail former guild memberships. They do not need, nor should they ever have, a tool which circumvents any privacy settings the applicant may have on their account(s). Likewise, they don't even need such a tool to "keep tabs" on their guild members.

A few years ago, I did have a guild leader think it was his right to stalk me. It was prompted by me moving Rijacki out of his guild even though I had other active characters in that guild and, on one of those, I had one of the highest raid attendances. He asserted he was going to do so to monitor what I was doing in my free time even though I wasn't missing any raids and there wasn't -any- guild rule about having all alts in the guild or spending any non-raid time doing only guild sanctioned activities. It was very creepy and I nearly left the guild over it (I was talked out of leaving by guild officers I informed). Ironically, most of the time I wasn't playing on guild characters at that time (and later) was because I my playtime had dwindled due to a significant health issue (for which I later had 2 surgeries) and work.

[Crismorn]

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

agnott wrote:

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

Reality check.

This has nothing to do with YOUR privacy. It is to do with your character's information. Big difference. Huge. Explain to me why you don't want anyone to see your character information please, I'm really interested.

Regardless of how harmless some information seems to be,  Do you really think that gives you the right to know it?

Amazingly I'm not at all interested in your character. However if, for instance, you acted like a bit of an idiot I might feel it prudent to check out your alts so that I can avoid you in future. It's not a question of a right of privacy because we're talking about game characters here, not your real life affairs. It is purely that I feel it is wrong in this environment for people to be able to deliberately cloak their characters in secrecy to the degree you seek. It would be my right as a guild leader to deny you access to my guild if I believed you were hiding something as it is equally your right to decide whether or not to continue masking information you deem integral to national security.

I've never blocked anything on my profile, if I played on a PvP server I would block everything.

But what you guys are asking for is basically the right to personal information, how personal depends entirely on the person who plays the account.

[Guy De Alsace]

Carthrax wrote:

Reapicheap@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

Your reading comprehension blows...  Do you NOT U N D E R S T A N D   P E R S O N A L..  Personal information about the account holder has a right to privacy...  Contact info, credit card info, real name etc.. The name of your alts?  Nope.. Sure doesn't..

Arent your alts personal information? I mean they are created by you, named by you, given a bio by you and possibly would prefer to remain anonymous - again by your choice. I mean I'm not all that bothered since if I knew a guild did an alt search on me I'd just quit the guild but nevertheless saying that your game presence has no right to privacy whatsoever seems to be a bit of a blanket statement. It would be an interesting area for upcoming lawyers to specialise in though.

[Rijacki]

Carthrax wrote:

Reapicheap@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

Your reading comprehension blows...  Do you NOT U N D E R S T A N D   P E R S O N A L..  Personal information about the account holder has a right to privacy...  Contact info, credit card info, real name etc.. The name of your alts?  Nope.. Sure doesn't..

And you have very little comprehension on what privacy pertains to.

The characters on an account are a reflection on what the player does in his REAL LIFE time. It is personal information about how and where that person is speding his time. It doesn't matter that the name on his birth certificate, drivers' license, passport, etc, isn't on display, the character on that account is directly and specifically associated with that PERSON.

According to the privacy policies of SOE, a PERSON has a right to certain privacy priviledges. SOE agrees not to disclose personal information without the PLAYER'S permission. It's the same, too, as any other online association AND suites regarding breaches of privacy policies have held up in court with the company breeching the policy being liable for rather sizable settlements.

One character on an account in relation to another character on that same account, it is still is and always should be the PLAYER's choice whether to reveal them or not.

[Carthr]

Rijacki wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Reapicheap@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

Your reading comprehension blows...  Do you NOT U N D E R S T A N D   P E R S O N A L..  Personal information about the account holder has a right to privacy...  Contact info, credit card info, real name etc.. The name of your alts?  Nope.. Sure doesn't..

And you have very little comprehension on what privacy pertains to.

The characters on an account are a reflection on what the player does in his REAL LIFE time. It is personal information about how and where that person is speding his time. It doesn't matter that the name on his birth certificate, drivers' license, passport, etc, isn't on display, the character on that account is directly and specifically associated with that PERSON.

According to the privacy policies of SOE, a PERSON has a right to certain privacy priviledges. SOE agrees not to disclose personal information without the PLAYER'S permission. It's the same, too, as any other online association AND suites regarding breaches of privacy policies have held up in court with the company breeching the policy being liable for rather sizable settlements.

One character on an account in relation to another character on that same account, it is still is and always should be the PLAYER's choice whether to reveal them or not.

Think whatever you'd like.. You people make no sense..  I mean seriously, step back from the computer and re-enter the real world for a second..  You are saying that the name of a fictional character on your account is personal information and should be treated like you credit card number etc...  I guess if someone hacks your account, it's considered Identity theft now?

I guess now you should probably go prosecute your garbage man.  Because you garbage also shows what you do with your real life time..  It shows what you had for dinner, etc

You people really need to get a grip on reality, and put down the Kool-aid

[Chanaluss]

Carthrax wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Reapicheap@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

Your reading comprehension blows...  Do you NOT U N D E R S T A N D   P E R S O N A L..  Personal information about the account holder has a right to privacy...  Contact info, credit card info, real name etc.. The name of your alts?  Nope.. Sure doesn't..

And you have very little comprehension on what privacy pertains to.

The characters on an account are a reflection on what the player does in his REAL LIFE time. It is personal information about how and where that person is speding his time. It doesn't matter that the name on his birth certificate, drivers' license, passport, etc, isn't on display, the character on that account is directly and specifically associated with that PERSON.

According to the privacy policies of SOE, a PERSON has a right to certain privacy priviledges. SOE agrees not to disclose personal information without the PLAYER'S permission. It's the same, too, as any other online association AND suites regarding breaches of privacy policies have held up in court with the company breeching the policy being liable for rather sizable settlements.

One character on an account in relation to another character on that same account, it is still is and always should be the PLAYER's choice whether to reveal them or not.

Think whatever you'd like.. You people make no sense..  I mean seriously, step back from the computer and re-enter the real world for a second..  You are saying that the name of a fictional character on your account is personal information and should be treated like you credit card number etc...  I guess if someone hacks your account, it's considered Identity theft now?

I guess now you should probably go prosecute your garbage man.  Because you garbage also shows what you do with your real life time..  It shows what you had for dinner, etc

You people really need to get a grip on reality, and put down the Kool-aid

SOE seems to think that its private information in the same vein. lets take the name change roster for EQlive for a minute. for quite a long time, if you had a name change in EQ1, it was put into a name change registry so people could keep track of it. at some point, they decided to shut down this registry. the only conclusions that could be reached is that it was causing trouble in-game (harrassment, etc), or there were just too many to keep track of. at the time, the station cash system hadnt existed, and name changes were like 50 bucks, so i doubt the latter is the case.

the poiint is, despite your dislike for the concept that people want to be able to do something by themselves and not be bothered, the fact that you can hide your alts in the first place implies that account privacy is at least in the back of the minds of the programmers/devs.

[Carthr]

Charuthus@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Reapicheap@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Carthrax wrote:

Your toon has no right to privacy. Your account has no inate right to privacy.. There is no legal matter here whatsoever.  A judge would laugh you right out of court.

You are wrong on a massive scale.  Not only have court rulings already been made stating that information on account holders is protected by a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you were right and I wrong, I could ask SOE for your personal contact information.  Consider if you would want someone like me knowing things about your real life identity.

Your reading comprehension blows...  Do you NOT U N D E R S T A N D   P E R S O N A L..  Personal information about the account holder has a right to privacy...  Contact info, credit card info, real name etc.. The name of your alts?  Nope.. Sure doesn't..

And you have very little comprehension on what privacy pertains to.

The characters on an account are a reflection on what the player does in his REAL LIFE time. It is personal information about how and where that person is speding his time. It doesn't matter that the name on his birth certificate, drivers' license, passport, etc, isn't on display, the character on that account is directly and specifically associated with that PERSON.

According to the privacy policies of SOE, a PERSON has a right to certain privacy priviledges. SOE agrees not to disclose personal information without the PLAYER'S permission. It's the same, too, as any other online association AND suites regarding breaches of privacy policies have held up in court with the company breeching the policy being liable for rather sizable settlements.

One character on an account in relation to another character on that same account, it is still is and always should be the PLAYER's choice whether to reveal them or not.

Think whatever you'd like.. You people make no sense..  I mean seriously, step back from the computer and re-enter the real world for a second..  You are saying that the name of a fictional character on your account is personal information and should be treated like you credit card number etc...  I guess if someone hacks your account, it's considered Identity theft now?

I guess now you should probably go prosecute your garbage man.  Because you garbage also shows what you do with your real life time..  It shows what you had for dinner, etc

You people really need to get a grip on reality, and put down the Kool-aid

SOE seems to think that its private information in the same vein. lets take the name change roster for EQlive for a minute. for quite a long time, if you had a name change in EQ1, it was put into a name change registry so people could keep track of it. at some point, they decided to shut down this registry. the only conclusions that could be reached is that it was causing trouble in-game (harrassment, etc), or there were just too many to keep track of. at the time, the station cash system hadnt existed, and name changes were like 50 bucks, so i doubt the latter is the case.

the poiint is, despite your dislike for the concept that people want to be able to do something by themselves and not be bothered, the fact that you can hide your alts in the first place implies that account privacy is at least in the back of the minds of the programmers/devs.

And if you put someone on your friends list in EQ2, and they get a name change, guess what, they still show up with the changed name...

[Malacha]

Carthrax wrote:

Think whatever you'd like.. You people make no sense..  I mean seriously, step back from the computer and re-enter the real world for a second..  You are saying that the name of a fictional character on your account is personal information and should be treated like you credit card number etc...  I guess if someone hacks your account, it's considered Identity theft now?

I guess now you should probably go prosecute your garbage man.  Because you garbage also shows what you do with your real life time..  It shows what you had for dinner, etc

You people really need to get a grip on reality, and put down the Kool-aid

Its my account, and my alts are my business. The only people who have the right to see who my alts are besides myself are SOE employees. I understand that my "right to privacy" ends with SOE, and they have full visibility of my account. But my fellow players do not, and should not, be able to know who my alts are unless I decide I want them to know.

Again, I have nothing to hide. People on my server who know me well enough know what my alt guild is. I don't exactly try to pretend to be someone else. But even so, I just had someone this week who didn't realize that one of my alts was actually me, he always assumed we were two different people. But even with nothing to hide, I still reserve the right to decide to hide my alts on eq2players and choose who to share that information with.

[Carthr]

You are given that right by SoE however..  People seem to think that this is some "legal right".. It's not.. You don't have the "right" to hide your alts, and I don't have the right to see them..  SoE gives us the ABILITY to hide them, but that doesn't make it a right.

According to dictionary.com:

Sometimes, rights. that which is due to anyone by just claim, legal guarantees, moral principles, etc.: women's rights; Freedom of speech is a right of all Americans.

While this is a moral right, people(who I WON'T point out for once) wanted to make this a legal discussion, which has no grounds.  Do I believe I should have to show all my alts, and see all yours? Nope.. Do I care one way or the other? Nope..  But to believe that you are entitled to something that you most definitely are not, is what this discussion has evolved into.

If avatars are an extension of ones self, and carry the same rights; am I murderer everytime I kill someone in CS:S or MW2? Because my "extension of myself" is killing other "extensions of people"..   Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it...

[Wingrider01]

Carthrax wrote:

You are given that right by SoE however..  People seem to think that this is some "legal right".. It's not.. You don't have the "right" to hide your alts, and I don't have the right to see them..  SoE gives us the ABILITY to hide them, but that doesn't make it a right.

According to dictionary.com:

Sometimes, rights. that which is due to anyone by just claim, legal guarantees, moral principles, etc.: women's rights; Freedom of speech is a right of all Americans.

While this is a moral right, people(who I WON'T point out for once) wanted to make this a legal discussion, which has no grounds.  Do I believe I should have to show all my alts, and see all yours? Nope.. Do I care one way or the other? Nope..  But to believe that you are entitled to something that you most definitely are not, is what this discussion has evolved into.

If avatars are an extension of ones self, and carry the same rights; am I murderer everytime I kill someone in CS:S or MW2? Because my "extension of myself" is killing other "extensions of people"..   Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it...

Sorry - it is my account, I have the right and ability to prevent anyone from prying into what my business is with the accounts and alternate characters  that I have. The toons may belogn to SOE, but I pay for teh privilage of accessing them, ergo it gives me the privilgae to tell anyone that is demanding the right to view my characters what to do with the request, called privacy.

You are 100 percent correct - "killing other extensions of people" is pretty stupid.

[Cynith]

Carthrax wrote:

And if you put someone on your friends list in EQ2, and they get a name change, guess what, they still show up with the changed name...

Actually - they don't. I have  a friend who has changed his name at least twice on a single character (actually two) - the original name(s) is still in my friends list but never shows as logging in anymore - when he sent me a message under his new name I had to add him again . . . and then again. 

[Skull_Splitter]

If one doesn't like it then why join that guild?

It's one's choice...

Besides the fact that I don't have a main and alts.... I have characters that are their own individuals and not subjected to the character that I first logged in with nor happen to play a few more hours a month.

I've played Ultima Online for over 12 years and there are people that still don't know who my "mule" ( even more disgusting term) or alts are

Guess it's the roleplayer in me

[erin]

Skull_Splitter wrote:

If one doesn't like it then why join that guild?

It's one's choice...

Besides the fact that I don't have a main and alts.... I have characters that are their own individuals and not subjected to the character that I first logged in with nor happen to play a few more hours a month.

I've played Ultima Online for over 12 years and there are people that still don't know who my "mule" ( even more disgusting term) or alts are

Guess it's the roleplayer in me

The thread isn't about a guild leader requesting to see your alts.  Its about SOE providing such ability to the guild leaders.  very very different scenarios.

[Kaalenarc]

erin wrote:

Skull_Splitter wrote:

If one doesn't like it then why join that guild?

It's one's choice...

Besides the fact that I don't have a main and alts.... I have characters that are their own individuals and not subjected to the character that I first logged in with nor happen to play a few more hours a month.

I've played Ultima Online for over 12 years and there are people that still don't know who my "mule" ( even more disgusting term) or alts are

Guess it's the roleplayer in me

The thread isn't about a guild leader requesting to see your alts.  Its about SOE providing such ability to the guild leaders.  very very different scenarios.

SOE does not do that, never have, likely never will. The choice to display alts, or not, is entirely up to the player. A guild can refuse to accept someone who doesnt show it but ultimately, its the players choice.

[erin]

Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:

erin wrote:

Skull_Splitter wrote:

If one doesn't like it then why join that guild?

It's one's choice...

Besides the fact that I don't have a main and alts.... I have characters that are their own individuals and not subjected to the character that I first logged in with nor happen to play a few more hours a month.

I've played Ultima Online for over 12 years and there are people that still don't know who my "mule" ( even more disgusting term) or alts are

Guess it's the roleplayer in me

The thread isn't about a guild leader requesting to see your alts.  Its about SOE providing such ability to the guild leaders.  very very different scenarios.

SOE does not do that, never have, likely never will. The choice to display alts, or not, is entirely up to the player. A guild can refuse to accept someone who doesnt show it but ultimately, its the players choice.

Yes but it was requested to be added. Which started this discussion.  SOE does not do that now, but it was requested as a feature in another thread.

[Skull_Splitter]

erin wrote:

Skull_Splitter wrote:

If one doesn't like it then why join that guild?

It's one's choice...

Besides the fact that I don't have a main and alts.... I have characters that are their own individuals and not subjected to the character that I first logged in with nor happen to play a few more hours a month.

I've played Ultima Online for over 12 years and there are people that still don't know who my "mule" ( even more disgusting term) or alts are

Guess it's the roleplayer in me

The thread isn't about a guild leader requesting to see your alts.  Its about SOE providing such ability to the guild leaders.  very very different scenarios.

Oh I didn't see the other thread.

I was just replying to "The request for guild leaders to be able see all Alts of a guild member " which didn't state the request was/is to SOE.

But in that case, ignore my previous reply and go with this;

HELL NO!!!

[erin]

Skull_Splitter wrote:

erin wrote:

Skull_Splitter wrote:

If one doesn't like it then why join that guild?

It's one's choice...

Besides the fact that I don't have a main and alts.... I have characters that are their own individuals and not subjected to the character that I first logged in with nor happen to play a few more hours a month.

I've played Ultima Online for over 12 years and there are people that still don't know who my "mule" ( even more disgusting term) or alts are

Guess it's the roleplayer in me

The thread isn't about a guild leader requesting to see your alts.  Its about SOE providing such ability to the guild leaders.  very very different scenarios.

Oh I didn't see the other thread.

I was just replying to "The request for guild leaders to be able see all Alts of a guild member " which didn't state the request was/is to SOE.

But in that case, ignore my previous reply and go with this;

HELL NO!!!

Admittedly the OP should have been more clear, maybe even linking the other thread.  It was in the one to the new senior producer, and someone asked for this new feature.