OMG NERF CRUSADER HEALS ALREADY

Disma · 05-13-2010, 11:17 PM

Title says it all...crusaders have tons of survivability in pvp and its just rediculous...can we at least get some acknowledgement that they are out of balance and a reason as to why they should be OP and have been OP for 2 expansions now but other classes (mages(resists are now [Removed for Content])....healers(divine guidance)....zerkers(cause they could heal) but OMG don't touch the crusaders what gives I mean seriously why cater to a small group of people you know you are driving people to either play that archetype or leave right?

And this isnt really a rant i am just tired of crusaders being OP and everyone else getting whacked with a nerf bat cause they can actually stand up to them....

Surculus · 05-14-2010, 06:06 AM

Lol, keep crying, they have been like this since TSO on PvP servers and still no change.

Crismorn · 05-14-2010, 07:47 AM

Surculus@Nagafen wrote:

Lol, keep crying, they have been like this since TSO RoK on PvP servers and still no change.

Wytie · 05-14-2010, 10:26 AM

Crismorn wrote:

Surculus@Nagafen wrote:
Lol, keep crying, they have been like this since TSO RoK KOS on PvP servers and still no change.

snowli · 05-14-2010, 11:45 AM

Divine guidance for CLERICS (not healers) is being whacked hard with the pvp nerf bat, because there was a danger of 2 out of six healers being able to survive like a crusader (for 20 seconds every so often) SMILEY (actually a good change)

The beserker skill is being nerfed too, because they are more invincible than crusaders for short periods, this is naughty and must be stopped SMILEY (actually a good change)

Welcome to CrusaderQuest a game about Crusaders, and the people and things they kill. If you have chosen a crusader sidekick class, you should probably read one of the threads about how to try and persuade a crusader that your sidekick is worth having along/saving/protecting.

(crusaders in PvP really do need to have less of at least 1 or 2 of the following: massive damage, massive heals, massive mitigation, massive survival and control effects breaking tools - sk's moreso than pallies)

Yimway · 05-14-2010, 01:21 PM

Devs:

Look at every single heal effect for pvp rulesets. EVERY SINGLE ONE that says x% heal, change to a fixed amount.

% based heals are affected by crit chance, potency, crit bonus, making them grossly overpowered for the pvp ruleset accross the board.

IMO, thats the biggest issue with heals, and particularly non-healer healing effects that are out of ballance in pvp ruleset.

Disma · 05-14-2010, 04:07 PM

Ya i did put that healers were getting anerf when it is just clerics and it does need a nerf its OP and zerker heals are OP as well and needed a change in pvp. Crusaders have been OP in pvp for a very long time and when some classes actually kill a crusader they don't just get hit with a nerf bat they gettin beatin into oblivion by it.

I just can't understand they why of it though. I mean how many people have rolled up a crusader alt because of their ability to solo because of their dps/heals/tank abilities? Currently in BGs Crusaders and Zerkers are insanely OP why do you think that 90% of tanks are Crusaders and Zerkers right now. I know on Crusader forums they talk of how they have no survivbility like guardians but if guardians have all that survivability why is it they get pwned by crusaders one on one?? Zerkers got a huge increase to their survivability with SF but that is getting changed in the next update as it should be, but where is the change to Crusaders to preserve balance in classes? If i were a Zerker I would be screaming on the forums about this since its perfectly in line wiith what a Crusader can do.

No class should be able to be a healer/tank/dps combo thats just rediculous and its been this way for so long now I just don't understand it. When any other class has even a slight advantage they do an over the top nerf to "balance" the classes, but this has been around since TSO and their has been multiple posts about it, but yet nothing has even been done why? I pay to play this game for fun I shouldn't have to play a certain class to compete, but it seems like that is what SOE wants.

EDITED: cause i got bit by the typo bug

Avirodar · 05-14-2010, 04:19 PM

Dismall@Nagafen wrote:

Ya i did put that healers were getting anerf when it is just clerics and it does need a nerf its OP and zerker heals are OP as well and needed a change in pvp. Crusaders have been OP in pvp for a very long time and when some classes actually kill a crusader they don't just get hit with a nerf bat they gettin beatin into oblivion by it.

Clerics do have some useful tools for BGs, very true. But it is not a completely lop sided affair. Druids and shamans give me more problems than templars. I am yet to run up against another Inq that troubled me. So either I have not run into many good clerics in BGs, and met plenty of talented druids and shammies, or it is not all bad for healers across the board. I have also seen plenty of shamans pulling ferocious heal amounts (one of which included 4.8 million healed in a 6vs6 gears match, with a templar also in group so it was not solo healing).Different people may have different experience, but these are my own. Aside from that, this thread is on the ball. Several tank class types are able to do far too much damage, for survivability they have. When tanks can often do more healing than 2/3 of the healers on a smugglers map, there is a problem.

Yimway · 05-14-2010, 04:22 PM

Odd, I've not seen a shammy yet that could keep himself or a tank alive in BG's.

Cloakentuna · 05-14-2010, 04:24 PM

Come on guys, a bunch of devs play SKs, why would they nerf them?!? It's like Aeralik with Assassins, only worse.

Kota · 05-14-2010, 04:45 PM

i play a zerk and i know that battle frenzy was op in pvp. i think they pretty much ruined it tho. it's gonna be a max of 28% of your health (w/o crit) after patch. still doesn't work against any kind of magic. but yeah crusaders have better stuff than that. i'll trade you my battle frenzy for your divine aura. p.s. this thread will prolly be locked very soon. you can't name you threads like that.

Magnis · 05-14-2010, 04:47 PM

Hmm never really supported the whole nerf sk movements.

BUT

Just yesterday I bentover and took it from a 70 Sk solo on my 87 monk. I then feel sorry for myself and turn around and kill a 84 ^^^ with ease in JW beaches (to make myself feek better).

HMMMM idont know...I dont know. Given that i SUX but really. WHen a gray sk can out heal my damage ( 4k DPS training dummy whatever thats worth) makes me wonder. Yes I saw DA go up and everything. Maybe I should have mezed him...

StaticLex · 05-14-2010, 05:09 PM

Uhm, learn to use your dispel button and crusaders go down like a 2 bit ho.

Tehom · 05-14-2010, 05:41 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Odd, I've not seen a shammy yet that could keep himself or a tank alive in BG's.

It's pretty gear and AA specific. I kind of got bored playing my defiler in BGs since unless I ran up against either an amazing fighter (Rotate, Corydonn, etc) or a decent scout I couldn't die, but I also couldn't hurt anyone, and playing a purely support role in pugs can get mighty old fast even if you do carry teams. I didn't really feel like taking a bunch of torrent/pestilential rain stuff just for battlegrounds, so meh. The 80-89 bracket is generally a lot more entertaining anyway.

Orthureon · 05-14-2010, 05:49 PM

I agree Crusaders need to be nerfed, Sks are taking a pretty big nerf this patch with Reaver not being 2.8% in PVP anymore lol. I think they just need to tone down their DPS, as for their healing they should be hard to kill.

If they were to lower Crusaders DPS any well geared toon would have a shot against an equally geared Sk imo, they can't heal that much. I top around 1.4k HPS in PVP against a group, that was with broken reaver btw.

Brynhild · 05-15-2010, 09:39 PM

Why do you keep saying crusader when you should just be saying SK? Crusaders include paladins u know, which don't do as much dps and actually have to CAST heals to heal themselves (which can be interrupted, etc.) while most of the sk stuff is 0.3s -0.8s cast and it heals and does damage at the same time, or instant.

Defilers are beastly in pvp now with almost every piece of gear having absurd casting speed increases on it.

Orthureon · 05-15-2010, 10:08 PM

Brynhild wrote:

Why do you keep saying crusader when you should just be saying SK? Crusaders include paladins u know, which don't do as much dps and actually have to CAST heals to heal themselves (which can be interrupted, etc.) while most of the sk stuff is 0.3s -0.8s cast and it heals and does damage at the same time, or instant.
Defilers are beastly in pvp now with almost every piece of gear having absurd casting speed increases on it.

Perhaps because any Paladin that knows how to press buttons is just as powerful? I have a 90 Paladin aswell, and this toon was a Paladin to begin with. Also, Paladins can do just as much dps, if they have around the same gear as their SK counterpart AND are decent at playing. You also forgot to mention that the Paladins heals can never be resisted, as the sks can. Their heals are quite a bit bigger aswell, except for Tap Veins IF more than one person is around.

If you spec strength it lowers the casting time on most of the Paladins heals by quite a bit and if you spec into your heals in the Paladin tree it reduces the cast times even more. I think cast times on most of their heals are around 0.8s which is very hard to interrupt.

05-14-2010, 06:06 AM	#2
Surculus Server: Nagafen Guild: Highkeep Heros Rank: Veteran Raider Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 79	Lol, keep crying, they have been like this since TSO on PvP servers and still no change. __________________ Brigand of Vene....err Naga.....er Antonia Bayle since long long ago.

05-14-2010, 07:47 AM	#3
Crismorn Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 2,840	Surculus@Nagafen wrote: Lol, keep crying, they have been like this since TSO RoK on PvP servers and still no change.

05-14-2010, 10:26 AM	#4
Wytie Mouse Betrayer! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,579	Crismorn wrote: Surculus@Nagafen wrote: Lol, keep crying, they have been like this since TSO RoK KOS on PvP servers and still no change. __________________

05-14-2010, 11:45 AM	#5
snowli General Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 571	Divine guidance for CLERICS (not healers) is being whacked hard with the pvp nerf bat, because there was a danger of 2 out of six healers being able to survive like a crusader (for 20 seconds every so often) (actually a good change) The beserker skill is being nerfed too, because they are more invincible than crusaders for short periods, this is naughty and must be stopped (actually a good change) Welcome to CrusaderQuest a game about Crusaders, and the people and things they kill. If you have chosen a crusader sidekick class, you should probably read one of the threads about how to try and persuade a crusader that your sidekick is worth having along/saving/protecting. (crusaders in PvP really do need to have less of at least 1 or 2 of the following: massive damage, massive heals, massive mitigation, massive survival and control effects breaking tools - sk's moreso than pallies) __________________ retired

05-14-2010, 01:21 PM	#6
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	Devs: Look at every single heal effect for pvp rulesets. EVERY SINGLE ONE that says x% heal, change to a fixed amount. % based heals are affected by crit chance, potency, crit bonus, making them grossly overpowered for the pvp ruleset accross the board. IMO, thats the biggest issue with heals, and particularly non-healer healing effects that are out of ballance in pvp ruleset. __________________

05-13-2010, 11:17 PM	#1
Disma Server: Nagafen Guild: Embraced By Hatred Rank: Praefectus Castrorum General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 41	Title says it all...crusaders have tons of survivability in pvp and its just rediculous...can we at least get some acknowledgement that they are out of balance and a reason as to why they should be OP and have been OP for 2 expansions now but other classes (mages(resists are now [Removed for Content])....healers(divine guidance)....zerkers(cause they could heal) but OMG don't touch the crusaders what gives I mean seriously why cater to a small group of people you know you are driving people to either play that archetype or leave right? And this isnt really a rant i am just tired of crusaders being OP and everyone else getting whacked with a nerf bat cause they can actually stand up to them....

05-14-2010, 04:07 PM	#7
Disma Server: Nagafen Guild: Embraced By Hatred Rank: Praefectus Castrorum General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 41	Ya i did put that healers were getting anerf when it is just clerics and it does need a nerf its OP and zerker heals are OP as well and needed a change in pvp. Crusaders have been OP in pvp for a very long time and when some classes actually kill a crusader they don't just get hit with a nerf bat they gettin beatin into oblivion by it. I just can't understand they *why* of it though. I mean how many people have rolled up a crusader alt because of their ability to solo because of their dps/heals/tank abilities? Currently in BGs Crusaders and Zerkers are insanely OP why do you think that 90% of tanks are Crusaders and Zerkers right now. I know on Crusader forums they talk of how they have no survivbility like guardians but if guardians have all that survivability why is it they get pwned by crusaders one on one?? Zerkers got a huge increase to their survivability with SF but that is getting changed in the next update as it should be, but where is the change to Crusaders to preserve balance in classes? If i were a Zerker I would be screaming on the forums about this since its perfectly in line wiith what a Crusader can do. No class should be able to be a healer/tank/dps combo thats just rediculous and its been this way for so long now I just don't understand it. When any other class has even a slight advantage they do an over the top nerf to "balance" the classes, but this has been around since TSO and their has been multiple posts about it, but yet nothing has even been done *why?* I pay to play this game for fun I shouldn't have to play a certain class to compete, but it seems like that is what SOE wants. EDITED: cause i got bit by the typo bug

05-14-2010, 04:19 PM	#8
Avirodar Server: Oasis Guild: Tyranny Rank: Champion Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,035	Dismall@Nagafen wrote: Ya i did put that healers were getting anerf when it is just clerics and it does need a nerf its OP and zerker heals are OP as well and needed a change in pvp. Crusaders have been OP in pvp for a very long time and when some classes actually kill a crusader they don't just get hit with a nerf bat they gettin beatin into oblivion by it. Clerics do have some useful tools for BGs, very true. But it is not a completely lop sided affair. Druids and shamans give me more problems than templars. I am yet to run up against another Inq that troubled me. So either I have not run into many good clerics in BGs, and met plenty of talented druids and shammies, or it is not all bad for healers across the board. I have also seen plenty of shamans pulling ferocious heal amounts (one of which included 4.8 million healed in a 6vs6 gears match, with a templar also in group so it was not solo healing).Different people may have different experience, but these are my own. Aside from that, this thread is on the ball. Several tank class types are able to do far too much damage, for survivability they have. When tanks can often do more healing than 2/3 of the healers on a smugglers map, there is a problem. __________________ Templar of Oasis

05-14-2010, 04:22 PM	#9
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	Odd, I've not seen a shammy yet that could keep himself or a tank alive in BG's. __________________

05-14-2010, 04:24 PM	#10
Cloakentuna Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 853	Come on guys, a bunch of devs play SKs, why would they nerf them?!? It's like Aeralik with Assassins, only worse.

05-14-2010, 04:45 PM	#11
Kota Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 671	i play a zerk and i know that battle frenzy was op in pvp. i think they pretty much ruined it tho. it's gonna be a max of 28% of your health (w/o crit) after patch. still doesn't work against any kind of magic. but yeah crusaders have better stuff than that. i'll trade you my battle frenzy for your divine aura. p.s. this thread will prolly be locked very soon. you can't name you threads like that.

05-14-2010, 04:47 PM	#12
Magnis Server: Nagafen Guild: Volcan Rank: Captain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 361	Hmm never really supported the whole nerf sk movements. BUT Just yesterday I bentover and took it from a 70 Sk solo on my 87 monk. I then feel sorry for myself and turn around and kill a 84 ^^^ with ease in JW beaches (to make myself feek better). HMMMM idont know...I dont know. Given that i SUX but really. WHen a gray sk can out heal my damage ( 4k DPS training dummy whatever thats worth) makes me wonder. Yes I saw DA go up and everything. Maybe I should have mezed him...

05-14-2010, 05:09 PM	#13
StaticLex Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,230	Uhm, learn to use your dispel button and crusaders go down like a 2 bit ho. __________________ When you've played this game for ten years and gone to bat seven-thousand times and gotten two-thousand hits do you know what that really means? It means you've gone zero for five-thousand. --- Reggie Jackson

05-14-2010, 05:41 PM	#14
Tehom Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,171	Atan@Unrest wrote: Odd, I've not seen a shammy yet that could keep himself or a tank alive in BG's. It's pretty gear and AA specific. I kind of got bored playing my defiler in BGs since unless I ran up against either an amazing fighter (Rotate, Corydonn, etc) or a decent scout I couldn't die, but I also couldn't hurt anyone, and playing a purely support role in pugs can get mighty old fast even if you do carry teams. I didn't really feel like taking a bunch of torrent/pestilential rain stuff just for battlegrounds, so meh. The 80-89 bracket is generally a lot more entertaining anyway.

05-14-2010, 05:49 PM	#15
Orthureon Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,073	I agree Crusaders need to be nerfed, Sks are taking a pretty big nerf this patch with Reaver not being 2.8% in PVP anymore lol. I think they just need to tone down their DPS, as for their healing they should be hard to kill. If they were to lower Crusaders DPS any well geared toon would have a shot against an equally geared Sk imo, they can't heal that much. I top around 1.4k HPS in PVP against a group, that was with broken reaver btw. __________________ NAGAFEN Server DAEMIEN 92 Shadowknight XEOS 92 Ranger EXILON 92 Inquisitor.

05-15-2010, 09:39 PM	#16
Brynhild Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 314	Why do you keep saying crusader when you should just be saying SK? Crusaders include paladins u know, which don't do as much dps and actually have to CAST heals to heal themselves (which can be interrupted, etc.) while most of the sk stuff is 0.3s -0.8s cast and it heals and does damage at the same time, or instant. Defilers are beastly in pvp now with almost every piece of gear having absurd casting speed increases on it.

05-15-2010, 10:08 PM	#17
Orthureon Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,073	Brynhild wrote: Why do you keep saying crusader when you should just be saying SK? Crusaders include paladins u know, which don't do as much dps and actually have to CAST heals to heal themselves (which can be interrupted, etc.) while most of the sk stuff is 0.3s -0.8s cast and it heals and does damage at the same time, or instant. Defilers are beastly in pvp now with almost every piece of gear having absurd casting speed increases on it. Perhaps because any Paladin that knows how to press buttons is just as powerful? I have a 90 Paladin aswell, and this toon was a Paladin to begin with. Also, Paladins can do just as much dps, if they have around the same gear as their SK counterpart AND are decent at playing. You also forgot to mention that the Paladins heals can never be resisted, as the sks can. Their heals are quite a bit bigger aswell, except for Tap Veins IF more than one person is around. If you spec strength it lowers the casting time on most of the Paladins heals by quite a bit and if you spec into your heals in the Paladin tree it reduces the cast times even more. I think cast times on most of their heals are around 0.8s which is very hard to interrupt. __________________ NAGAFEN Server DAEMIEN 92 Shadowknight XEOS 92 Ranger EXILON 92 Inquisitor.